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[Budi]

This isn't about the strike itself, but Ashly Burch and the game. Wasn't she still working on the game in another capacity?

 

[in2repid]

Square should have given her a better, more humane contract.

I don't mind the new voice actress, but the voice acting should have better working condition.



The problem is not the pay itself, but the working condition is not suitably worked in the favour of voice acting. Voice Actors gets rough treatment, for instance when they get sick, lose their voice and for the orst case scenario, get vocal chord damage. They work load is very heavy considering how much they can take and that get affected for their future prospect.

UI designer don't lose their hand, nether does the production team or whoever, voice acting is seriously hazardous work, and they never get work environment ad condition they deserve.

All disciplines of game development are challenging in their own regard. I don't think we can say voice acting is any more hazardous or difficult than any other profession. It is all a creative endeavor. People put their hearts into it.

 

[Kinyou]

So I've been wondering... Does this strike have any hope of success? Every major actor/actress that's a part of it is getting quietly replaced, the industry hardly seems phased at all.

I doubt it. In the end they probably don't hold enough power.

What's kind of weird to me is that they're boycotting only specific publishers. Is for example Sony doing things Square Enix isn't? I assumed that no publisher pays royalties.

 

[spindoctor]

This is not true. Quality of voice acting is extremely important these days as a well written story with bad voice actors (bad timing, inflection, emotion) can kill a game the same way it can kill an anime, a cartoon series, an animated movie.

We have yet to see any proof of this affecting video game sales.

When a character hits a certain level of infamy, people notice. Travis Touchdown for instance. He's defined by his crazy voice and dialogue.

I haven't played No More Heroes so forgive my ignorance, but wasn't that a pretty niche game that didn't sell all that well? Isn't it a bit of a miracle that a sequel is coming out for the game? What percentage of fans who have waited years will decide they don't want to play the sequel if the voice actor changed? And suppose the game did fail again, what message do you think the publisher would take away? That they should have used the original voice actor or that the low sales for two iterations of the franchise prove that there isn't an audience for it?

I think fans care, but not enough to matter.

Fair enough. You explained what I meant to say better than me. I'm not saying voice actors and continuity are worthless... but I don't think enough people will choose not to buy a game because of a different voice actor.

And you're right, it may not be fair to compare the first few days for Life is Strange Before the Storm with the time period that Life is Strange had (I can't find the first week sales of Episode 1 for instance), but considering it's sold as a complete package, instead of on a per episode basis like the original release, it's not doing the numbers that Square Enix might've hoped.

Meaning 1 million sales on day one, since they have a pretty big fan-base of over 3 million players.

One day. The game has been out for one day. We don't even have all the pre-order numbers yet. You really are stretching to try and prove your point. Did you really think Life is Strange would have one million copies sold on day one? Even PUBG is not managing that and it has the most momentum of any PC game in a long, long time.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I haven't played No More Heroes so forgive my ignorance, but wasn't that a pretty niche game that didn't sell all that well? Isn't it a bit of a miracle that a sequel is coming out for the game? What percentage of fans who have waited years will decide they don't want to play the sequel if the voice actor changed? And suppose the game did fail again, what message do you think the publisher would take away? That they should have used the original voice actor or that the low sales for two iterations of the franchise prove that there isn't an audience for it?

I'm pretty sure NMH1 did like 500k. And look up a video of his fight with Heavy Metal. You'll see what I mean about his voice.

 

[Squishy3]

Ah...Games? You think these people just do anime?
Laura Bailey started from there
Troy Baker started from there.
A lot of these VAs have role in game/anime.

The strike isn't for anime, it's only for games, so I don't know why you're bringing it up that they're doing anime still. They aren't going across the picket line by doing so.
From the SAG-Aftra Strike FAQ

WHAT WORK IS STRUCK?
All video games, including work such as DLC and trailers under the Interactive Contract, that went into production after February 17, 2015 for the following employers: Activision Publishing Inc.; Blindlight, LLC; Corps of Discovery Films; Disney Character Voices, Inc.; Electronic Arts Productions, Inc.; Formosa Interactive, LLC; Insomniac Games, Inc.; Interactive Associates, Inc.; Take 2 Interactive Software; VoiceWorks Productions, Inc.; and WB Games, Inc.
All other employers are encouraged to continue production.
Members can continue to work on other projects, such as Animation, TV/Film, Corporate/Education, Audiobooks, Commercials, etc.

Nothing but roles from certain companies and in games are struck in this strike.

 

[ItsTheNew]

My fiancée hasn't really felt a burch shaped absence. I wish these voice actors would realize their silly little strike is going no where.

 

[Vashu]

One day. The game has been out for one day. We don't even have all the pre-order numbers yet. You really are stretching to try and prove your point. Did you really think Life is Strange would have one million copies sold on day one? Even PUBG is not managing that and it has the most momentum of any PC game in a long, long time.

Considering the pretty big and active fanbase, it would've been possible for the game to sell at least over 100K on the first day, yet it didn't.

And PUBG started with a slow momentum, being very new and not a prequel to an already established and very much loved game. Word of mouth helps a lot in that case, and I am sure the many Twitch streams added to it as well.

Now, I'm not saying this one won't have legs, it took a while for the original to reach 1 million, 3 to 4 months, but it's not the start that many were expecting.

Did the loss of Ashley as Chloe have anything to do with that? Quite possible. It was pretty much reported everywhere in the media that she wasn't portraying Chloe again. And again, the showing at E3 did not help at all.

We'll see how it goes, but I am seeing quite some varying experiences with the first episode pop up. And of course, not all of them have to do with the replacement of Ashley (quite a few people aren't happy with the story and the back-talk system), but there are definitely mentions that people hear a difference between the voices, even though DeVries does an adequate job.

My fiancée hasn't really felt a burch shaped absence. I wish these voice actors would realize their silly little strike is going no where.

The new voice actress only does a good job because Ashley was heavily involved in guiding her, and helping with the story to keep Chloe as close as possible to her initial performance. If she didn't help, there's a big chance it might've turned out differently.

And it's not a silly little strike, you might want to read up on what their current working conditions are.

Why We Strike - Game Performance Matters

 

[Garlador]

My fiancée hasn't really felt a burch shaped absence. I wish these voice actors would realize their silly little strike is going no where.

The strike is important and I DO agree with them. Performance matters a lot.

It's the same as an actor's strike, though. Some films, some moments, are iconic... and you could feasibly replace an actor or actress with another talented performer that still makes magic but the experience is... different. Sometimes that's better, sometimes it's worse.

Same for games. We have plenty of examples where an incredible voice actor defines a character... and then gets replaced with someone nowhere near as good. Similarly, we have some examples where a new voice brings an old character to life better than before.

The performance matters, it does. But it's also hard to make headway when the PERFORMER matters less than the performance. Chloe in Life is Strange is an example of this... BOTH performances are good, thus the lack of the original voice actress hurts less than you'd expect.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

But the fair pay for the work is the same, no matter what project they're working on.

So this is a broader question, but the position of organized labor is that if you contribute a fraction of the work, then your fair compensation should be that fraction of the value of what you built. One of the key drivers of income inequality is that we add a society view "fair pay" in terms of dollars and not percentages because once you dole out the dollar amounts, the remaining wealth gets sorted into the hands of a few executives.

This is kinda why strikes ever work. By striking, you intend to prove that your labor is essential. The writers' strike did just that by showing that without those Guild members, television was widely regarded as unwatchable.

 

[CSJ]

Square should have given her a better, more humane

.... voice acting is seriously hazardous work, and they never get work environment ad condition they deserve.

Do you honestly think you're not over exaggerating.
Hazardous? Humane? Reality check please.

Like any job, some of these people fighting it are sitting comfortably, to be able to even turn down jobs.

 

[Garlador]

Do you honestly think you're not over exaggerating.
Hazardous? Humane? Reality check please.

Like any job, some of these people fighting it are sitting comfortably, to be able to even turn down jobs.

Do a sessions of Dragon Ball Z screams and get back to me on that.

Voice actors are often expected to do long hours with content that hurts and strains your vocal chords, often to the breaking point. Just because they don't lose a limb doesn't mean they can't seriously - and permanently - damage their voices, which is the basis for their entire career.

No, he's right. It can absolutely be hazardous work.

Bone up a bit.

 

[Wulfram]

So this is a broader question, but the position of organized labor is that if you contribute a fraction of the work, then your fair compensation should be that fraction of the value of what you built. One of the key drivers of income inequality is that we add a society view "fair pay" in terms of dollars and not percentages because once you dole out the dollar amounts, the remaining wealth gets sorted into the hands of a few executives.

This is kinda why strikes ever work. By striking, you intend to prove that your labor is essential. The writers' strike did just that by showing that without those Guild members, television was widely regarded as unwatchable.

Even if I accepted that logic (which I don't), in a game with a higher budget, an individual voice actors contribution will be smaller as percentage and thus the amount due to them by that logic would remain approximately the same.

 

[Syriel]

For publishers, this strike means the pool of VA talent they have access to is greatly reduced, the actors they do have access to are often less experienced and have worse training, and most importantly it's a logistical nightmare as publishers are forced to change plans they've made years in advance and negotiate with agents and casting companies they've never dealt with, which will again result in them making less profit.

If the strike drags on, it may open up more opportunities for unknowns to break in.

SAG makes it very difficult for new actors to audition for work, as you have to be a member of the union to get work, but you can't be a member of the union unless you have prior work.

The whole thing is designed to protect those that already have an "in" while keeping others out. It's very much a "Got Mine!" attitude, and it's one of the reasons why games have had such a small pool of VA's over the years. Can't knock Troy Baker or Steve Blum for their hustle, because a man's got to eat, but it would be nice to have some variety in game VA and not just have the same VAs over-and-over in AAA games.

It's not just their fees, it's the fact that VAs are often kept in the dark about what games they're actually acting in, which is outrageous. Imagine being an actor who records some scenes for a film- they're not told what it is, and they get paid the sort of rate you'd get for some low budget indie film. They later find out that they were actually acting in the new Star Wars film, which will make millions of dollars. Yet they've still been paid like shit, and couldn't negotiate as they weren't informed what film it is. Not really very fair, is it?

SAG is a leaky ship when it comes to projects, which is why that was done in the past. Still, game companies agreed to provide more information on projects, under strict NDA.

As for the budget comment you bring up, what is wrong with the concept of equal pay for equal work? Why should two VAs, who put in the exact same time/effort, get different compensation simply because one game is better made than the other?

Also, SAGAFTRA do have a strong position, which is why they're striking. They wouldn't bother otherwise, it would be pointless. Even if the VAs don't get everything they're asking for right now, they undoubtedly will eventually- this is just the beginning of the fight.

Not really. Which is why the strike is going on this long. The game industry even agreed to increased pay up-front, hitting effective parity with the SAG demand, but refused to agree to residuals.

SAG went on strike not over the amount of pay, but because the pay would have been paid up-front for the work and not as residuals.

But a non-union actor who works on non-union projects isn't one, right?

A non-union actor is competition to a union actor. Less actors in the union pool means more work for those already in the union.

I don't see any fundamental reason why the pay should depend on the project, if they're doing the same work.

Agreed with this point.

Square should have given her a better, more humane contract.

I don't mind the new voice actress, but the voice acting should have better working condition.

The problem is not the pay itself, but the working condition is not suitably worked in the favour of voice acting. Voice Actors gets rough treatment, for instance when they get sick, lose their voice and for the orst case scenario, get vocal chord damage. They work load is very heavy considering how much they can take and that get affected for their future prospect.

UI designer don't lose their hand, nether does the production team or whoever, voice acting is seriously hazardous work, and they never get work environment ad condition they deserve.

What is "inhumane" about negotiating payment up-front?

All of the working condition requests were agreed to by the game companies, which you obviously know since you've been following the strike.

Which means your only point of contention is how payment is structured.

So this is a broader question, but the position of organized labor is that if you contribute a fraction of the work, then your fair compensation should be that fraction of the value of what you built. One of the key drivers of income inequality is that we add a society view "fair pay" in terms of dollars and not percentages because once you dole out the dollar amounts, the remaining wealth gets sorted into the hands of a few executives.

This is kinda why strikes ever work. By striking, you intend to prove that your labor is essential. The writers' strike did just that by showing that without those Guild members, television was widely regarded as unwatchable.

The bolded usually only comes into play when projects are successful.

Outside of tech, you rarely see people willing to work solely for the value of what they produce, because if the product is a failure, then no one would get paid.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

This isn't about the strike itself, but Ashly Burch and the game. Wasn't she still working on the game in another capacity?

Yes she was...coaching? For her replacement? I think?

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Even if I accepted that logic (which I don't), in a game with a higher budget, an individual voice actors contribution will be smaller as percentage and thus the amount due to them by that logic would remain approximately the same.

The last part is rarely true. I'd need to see some data to buy that.

And you don't have to accept it, but that puts you at odds with workers' rights.

The bolded usually only comes into play when projects are successful.

Outside of tech, you rarely see people willing to work solely for the value of what they produce, because if the product is a failure, then no one would get paid.

I mean, there's also living wage regulation for this.

 

[ExMachina]

Yes she was...coaching? For her replacement? I think?

She worked as a writer/consultant, including writing some of Chloe's dialogue.

Not sure if she was ever in direct contact with the new VA.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

This is the same reason Robert Atkins Downe isn't Travis in NMH3, if it hasn't been mentioned.

 

[Zolo]

This is the same reason Robert Atkins Downe isn't Travis in NMH3, if it hasn't been mentioned.

Would that be possible anyway? I assume Suda generally uses voice actors that weren't part of a union in the first place like Atlus. Kinda like how Troy Baker wouldn't return for a Catherine 2.

 

[HamsterExAstris]

Would that be possible anyway? I assume Suda generally uses voice actors that weren't part of a union in the first place like Atlus.

Robin Atkin Downes has almost certainly been part of SAG for the last twenty-ish years, given his TV work. It's possible that he's ficore, though. (AKA: "we'll still take your money, but in exchange for giving up all your union rights we won't break your legs when you work for someone who's not a SAG signatory".)

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

This is the same reason Robert Atkins Downe isn't Travis in NMH3, if it hasn't been mentioned.

NMH3 is a non-union production done by Rocketsound. Even if the strike is a factor in why they went to Rocketsound (a non-struck company) the bigger and more direct cause is that it's a lower-budget game and it was more efficient for them to go non-union. Happens all the time with smaller-budget/Japanese games.

Would that be possible anyway? I assume Suda generally uses voice actors that weren't part of a union in the first place like Atlus. Kinda like how Troy Baker wouldn't return for a Catherine 2.

NMH 1 and 2 were union productions. But Travis Strikes Back probably can't afford that luxury since it's more-or-less an indie game.

 

[Falk]

My fiancée hasn't really felt a burch shaped absence. I wish these voice actors would realize their silly little strike is going no where.

I think the voice actors by and large... probably do.

 

[BronsonLee]

She worked as a writer/consultant, including writing some of Chloe's dialogue.

Not sure if she was ever in direct contact with the new VA.

If I had to hazard a guess, Ashly probably would've reprised the role but couldn't because of the union, so she still helped out in other ways.

Sucks she couldn't return, but glad she was able to leave some personal touch at the very least

 

[Bluth54]

My fiancée hasn't really felt a burch shaped absence. I wish these voice actors would realize their silly little strike is going no where.

Honestly I seriously wonder how much longer the strike will go on.
Unlike the TV or movie industry videogame companies don't seem to care if they hire union or non union voice actors, you barely hear anything about this strike and the vast majority of gamers don't even know about it.

I honestly don't think the demands from the guild are all that unreasonable but I just can't see the strike going anywhere.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I honestly don't think the demands from the guild are all that unreasonable but I just can't see the strike going anywhere.

Basically

 

[HamsterExAstris]

I honestly don't think the demands from the guild are all that unreasonable but I just can't see the strike going anywhere.

Part of the problem is the long lead time in games - there are games that went into production before the 2015 strike start that still aren't released yet.

I think that what's going to cause movement is going to be either Destiny 3 not being able to use Nathan Fillion, or a future EA Star Wars title not being able to use an actor from the films.