Assassin's Creed 2 lead accuses Shadow of Mordor of reusing code/anims

Jul 11, 2008
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How would a completely different developer under a completely different publisher using a completely different engine manage straight-up steal animations and code from a game that is nearly five years old? Much less without anyone of the lead devs noticing and going "What the hell?".

These are some pretty serious accusations. I'm going to need more evidence than "I know it when I see it". Don't know why so many people are willing accept one guy's baseless accusations without any actual evidence to back it up aside from "I totally wear they stole it guys."
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Feb 14, 2009
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idk man that sailing
Ass Creed 2 with sailing would be amazing than Ass Creed 4's sailing and Ass Creed 2's walking alone, you know it.

Also eyeballing animations and calling it copywriting is stupid. Show me the code, Diane. Show me the code.
 
Jun 25, 2004
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idk. It looks similar but not exactly the same.
It looks like they did try to copy the animations and the character seems to have exactly the same moves, but they don't look exactly the same to me.

But the game looks very interesting
 
Feb 23, 2013
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One way I can think of this being plausible is if they got the same base mocapped raw files and just solved, cleaned and edited them for their character rigs.

"Hey Mocap vendor, heard you worked on AC2, we need a whole bunch of climbing animations done!"
"yeah, umm...ok...the shoot will cost you 100.000 and you will get the solved data in 2 week...oh it is already solved...our army of animators is fast...yes very fast!"


Either that or some animator guy who left Ubisoft took the MotionBuilder files or whatever they used with him.
 
Mar 23, 2010
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Woodland Hills
How would a completely different developer under a completely different publisher using a completely different engine manage straight-up steal animations and code from a game that is nearly five years old? Much less without anyone of the lead devs noticing and going "What the hell?".

These are some pretty serious accusations. I'm going to need more evidence than "I know it when I see it". Don't know why so many people are willing accept one guy's baseless accusations without any actual evidence to back it up aside from "I totally wear they stole it guys."
Virtually all game devs keep their work in some way for their portfolio for later.

So, animators keep their animations. Programmers keep sections of their code. They're not SUPPOSED to, but I'm confident more people do it than most.

How often do you see concept art published on online resumes of artists that reveal cancelled games? Where do you think they got that from?
 
D

Deleted member 126221

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These are pretty severe accusations to throw around without any proof.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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I went back to the start of the vid when I saw the climbing animations to check if it was made by or at least with Ubi, the animations and timings are so uncanny with Ass Creed's I was boggled.

This was either reverse engineered or outright stolen methinks, that climbing system Ass Creed is still unmatched and this appears to be exactly as good.

Oh and the game looks awesome so I really hope this doesn't blow up on their faces...
 
Mar 12, 2013
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Yes they do look incredibly similar especially the climbing and traversal but I think the fighting looked a bit different. So they probably copied it but used the same code? Doubt it.
 
Jul 11, 2012
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Denver
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I can tell you from watching AC2 videos and Mordor that the side to side transition is uncanny, and the upper jump looks similar.

The jump to a higher object in the last frame looks very familiar but I could not find that specific animation in the few AC videos I just watched.

 
Jul 3, 2012
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I mean, I guess so many hands and eyes go through an AC game that it's possible someone who went on to work for Monolith took something with him, but it seems like a pretty big accusation to be making on twitter. Maybe twitter dude should have taken it to his bosses or something instead of potentially defaming a company to the masses if it turns out not to be true.
I second this sentiment.
 
Dec 18, 2012
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The rope walking and Eagle Vision stuck out to me as the most blatant copying of Assassin's Creed. Even though climbing is also similar, it's something that seems necessary, while the ropes and Eagle Vision seem simply there because ''hey, we could also put that in our game''.
 
Jun 11, 2010
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If the animation assets were ripped, then it's possible that the code to read the animation assets were also ripped.
It's possible. It's quite easy to steal code from Unity games that hasn't been obfuscated. But with games like AC written in C++, it's hard to get usable code after it's been complied. At most you use a disassembler/debugger to view the program assembly. But you still need to write your own code.

Ripping game assets are much easier. The forge archive format the AC and PoP games use are published online by dudes who reversed it. That's why there's a GTA mod with Ezio as Niko.

But it seems extremely risky for a big studio like Monolith to knowingly steal assets.
 
D

Deleted member 126221

Unconfirmed Member
The rope walking and Eagle Vision stuck out to me as the most blatant copying of Assassin's Creed. Even though climbing is also similar, it's something that seems necessary, while the ropes and Eagle Vision seem simply there because ''hey, we could also put that in our game''.
But these were also in Batman: Arkham City, another Warner Bros Game. If anything, Batman "copied" AC...
 
Oct 28, 2013
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I've only watched 90 seconds of this Mordor game and that's enough to call it a straight up AssCreed ripoff. I can't say if they're actually stealing assets, but good lord this is truly shameless.
then watch the rest you chump. How can you formulate a worthwhile opinion after 90 seconds
 
Jun 4, 2011
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The rope walking and Eagle Vision stuck out to me as the most blatant copying of Assassin's Creed. Even though climbing is also similar, it's something that seems necessary, while the ropes and Eagle Vision seem simply there because ''hey, we could also put that in our game''.
But the wraith world/vision is based on the realm that one enters into whenever they put on the ring and can sense and see the true form of the wraiths. So it really makes sense. Besides that, they are also adding unique abilities to it. It's not just Eagle or Detective vision.
 
Nov 21, 2013
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The entirety of all AAA games is basically one rip-off of the same stuff, so I fail to see the issue.
The issue is that instead of saying they are copying/borrowing off of Assassin's Creed, this guy is literally accusing Warner Brothers/Monolith of stealing Ubisofts assets (ie ripping them directly out of AC2) and putting them in their game.
 
May 23, 2011
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But the wraith world/vision is based on the realm that one enters into whenever they put on the ring and can sense and see the true form of the wraiths. So it really makes sense. Besides that, they are also adding unique abilities to it. It's not just Eagle or Detective vision.
It's also not something ass creed invented either. I mean if it were Ubi soft would have lots of lawsuits on their hands. Toukiden uses a vision system that is similar, as does soul sacrifice, and a ton of other games from past and present.

To me this screams of when people mistakenly believe that gears was the originator of its style of cover mechanics, or that dark souls invented mimics. At the end of the day there are only so many ways you can achieve specific goals, and things will undoubtedly look similar at some point.
 
Jul 24, 2007
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Consider the chance that people who worked at Ubisoft -- specifically on AC -- may have been hired at Monolith on the fact that they helped craft AC's fantastic parkour animations and systems.

It's a very real possibility.
 

LiK

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Mar 26, 2007
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Consider the chance that people who worked at Ubisoft -- specifically on AC -- may have been hired at Monolith on the pretense that they helped craft AC's fantastic parkour animations and systems.

It's a very real possibility.
agree, with such a large team, i can see people who left to other companies taking some knowledge with them.
 
Dec 28, 2011
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I did get a lot of Assassin's Creed vibes from watching it to be honest. Not just from a gameplay and mechanics perspective, but everything in general. VERY similar animations and camera angles when doing assassinations from above and behind, even to the point of how robotic and janky they appear which has happened in all AC games, particularly those from above. And yes, it even had those things you walk across from building to building...
 
Jul 11, 2012
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Denver
backloggery.com
Consider the chance that people who worked at Ubisoft -- specifically on AC -- may have been hired at Monolith on the fact that they helped craft AC's fantastic parkour animations and systems.

It's a very real possibility.
I was thinking the same thing, these same employees would be privy to certain data at Ubisoft as well.

If it was stolen, its honestly probably placeholder stuff. No way a studio like WB would allow something like that to actually release to consumers.
 
May 10, 2012
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Climbing looks similar which is why everyone in the Mordor thread comments on how the game looks like Assassin's Creed, so there's definately a resemblance. But saying Monolith is using ACII code is quite a bold statement to randomly throw out there on Twitter.

I've played a huge amount of ACII but the animations didn't really seem 1:1 to me personally.
 
Mar 21, 2011
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Is this the same Capybara guy that accused the Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon team of "copying" Super Time Force because they both had fake 90s commercial jokes?

Like, yeah, Mordor looks like it cribs notes from AC and Batman. I REALLY doubt there's stolen code.
 
Feb 28, 2010
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Is this the same Capybara guy that accused the Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon team of "copying" Super Time Force because they both had fake 90s commercial jokes?

Like, yeah, Mordor looks like it cribs notes from AC and Batman. I REALLY doubt there's stolen code.
I don't think it's the same dude. I think that was Nathan Vella?
 
Mar 23, 2010
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Woodland Hills
It's possible. It's quite easy to steal code from Unity games that hasn't been obfuscated. But with games like AC written in C++, it's hard to get usable code after it's been complied. At most you use a disassembler/debugger to view the program assembly. But you still need to write your own code.

Ripping game assets are much easier. The forge archive format the AC and PoP games use are published online by dudes who reversed it. That's why there's a GTA mod with Ezio as Niko.

But it seems extremely risky for a big studio like Monolith to knowingly steal assets.
I'm coming from the perspective that it was someone inside the company that took the assets.
 
Jun 10, 2004
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Can't be Assassin's Creed code, the stealth looks like it makes sense. The player can actually crouch.
there's crouching in AC4 but only NPCs can do it.

Anyways, The Witcher 2 is the first thing I thought and when he climbed up and walked on the rope and did eagle vision is when it looked straight out of Assassins Creed.
 
Feb 19, 2013
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When I saw that video I was convinced the running animation, complete with the cloak movements, were straight from Assassin's Creed. I had not noticed the climbing animations, but seeing those screenshots makes me think they are identical too.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Coming from someone who has played through every Assassin's Creed 2 or 3 times, yes, this is SHOCKINGLY similar to AC2.

I wish I was a gif guru like some of you guys. Someone could easily recreate most of this game's gameplay in AC2.