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[~Devil Trigger~]

Lets all be honest here, believing in a god or believing there isn't a god are both reliant on faith and humans believing they are more than they are.

First of all I respect most religions and I love reading about them and their mythology, epic storylines and people of old trying to explain how the universe came about is endlessly interesting to me. But that doesn't change the fact that it is never a proven fact.

I myself do not know if a god exists or not, but I truly don't care enough to prove it mostly cause I feel that it isn't our place to know. Life is mysterious and that is the beauty of it, thinking about how it came to be is one of the most mentally stimulating things anyone can do. I feel that if there was a god and heaven and hell existed god would be reasonable enough to understand who is a good person and not judge them by some old book, and if god doesn't exist well then when you're dead and you won't know cause you're dead. I live y my own rules and since my own rules doesn't involve rape or murder I don't think I am a horrible person.

And another thing I don't like is people claiming god doesn't exist for all the bad shit that happens on earth. I think that a god would be something we can't comprehend let alone judge, and I also feel that humanities faults are humanities responsibility and blaming it on a higher being is retarded. And another case I would like to bring up is if god does exist why would it care enough to give us religion? And why must god look like a human and be male or female or black or white?

It is an interesting subject that I love discussing, but I see that it depends on your audience and 9 times out of 10 you won't be around people who can discuss it with respect mostly cause any argument involving the non existence of god is something a believer won't fathom, and the existence of a god is one an atheist refuses to believe. I hope GAF can prove me wrong but due to the size of the community I don't see it happening.

but god gave us his words, and he also gave us logic....why shouldn't we judge him?

if he cant be comprehended, why does he even bother with us or vice versa?

 

[Cyan]

I find it funny how some atheists don't want to hear about god or anyone preach religion yet they preach atheism. It would be better if both side believed whatever they want and shut up.

As long as the competing memes have significant real-world (political) consequences, that won't happen.

 

[Subliminal]

I'm an atheist but I usually find my self on the side of the theists in any debate.

Most of the atheists who get into arguments are obnoxious dicks who shit on everyone's parade.

 

[Atramental]

Hitler was an atheist, Jesus was a theist. That tells you everything you need to know.

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2

Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children.
- Adolf Hitler reflecting on World War I, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 7

What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1

 

[Orayn]

It would be better if both side believed whatever they want and shut up.

Why? Even if it's not always a productive use of time, there's a lot of fun to be had in this kind of debate and discussion, and some of us find it quite stimulating. I'm all for being respectful of other people when discussing beliefs, but we can't all be right, you know.

 

[milanbaros]

A question to Theists.

What made you believe in your particular god and not the thousands of others that have been followed in the past?

 

[Pixel Pete]

Theists walk like adabadababee
but atheists walk like adoobdoodooadoodoodoo

I had a 400 word post typed up and everything before I noticed this post =\

Atheist here. Technically Agnostic Atheist, which is to say, I think a god could exist, I'm not fundamentally against the idea, but I'm of the opinion that a god isn't necessary, and certainly isn't anything remotely approaching proven or even evident.

That said, discussion of the topic, when handled maturely and intelligently, can be very interesting.

 

[Fernando Rocker]

We have a Christianity thread... feel free to join us!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=424176

 

[3N16MA]

Why? Even if it's not always a productive use of time, there's a lot of fun to be had in this kind of debate and discussion, and some of us find it quite stimulating. I'm all for being respectful of other people when discussing beliefs, but we can't all be right, you know.

I don't mind insightful debate in a thread created for that purpose. It's when both sides start shitting on each other in threads where the discussion shouldn't really happen.

 

[DeathIsTheEnd]

One of the central tenets of most variants string theory is that most of the existing dimensions are arranged in such a way that they will never interact with our perceived universe. One of the central tenants of a number of modern variants of religion is that whatever deities exist do so in a way that they will never interact with our perceived universe. String theory was devised because it makes some messy equations neater, and scientists like neat equations. God was devised because it makes some terrifying prospects more palatable, and humans like being comfortable. They seem quite analogous to me. Neither has any reason to exist, other than that humans would like them to exist, but that doesn't mean they are disprovable either.

Again, treating the existence of god(s) as a scientific question is missing the point, because people's belief in them is not evidence-based.

I wasn't aware that apparently we won't be able to test some sections of it at all, all I really knew was the proposal of multiple dimensions in an attempt to reconcile general relativity with quantum mechanics. That makes it even dodgier.

Some claims made by theists are scientific in nature though, such as miracles, prayer and the existence of life and the universe.

I also think that focusing on the lack of evidence is important because to my mind it's the only way to get people away from religion and to what I perceive as reality. If it wasn't brought up then arguments against theism would be far weaker.

 

[D'ultimate]

The thought processes of most religious people I know seem pretty ridiculous to me now.

This.

Just looking at some responses by some people today in regards to the Casey verdict such as "her judgement is coming soon" gives you an idea why humans choose to believe in God. They need/want that comfort. The world is a scary place without it.

 

[Air]

Burden of proof is on the theists. *goes off to get a drink*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

 

[Sharp]

I'm not saying that a lot of theistic beliefs (as far as specific cause-and-effect things which have been scientifically demonstrated to be false) aren't total bullshit. I just think that it needs to come down to people really understanding the difference between science and evidence-based logic, and unfalsifiable theories like those of deism. And I definitely believe that people are able to separate irrational thoughts ("he had it coming to him, it was karma") from rational discussion ("yes, humans evolved over time, like most or all other life on earth.").

 

[U n i o n 0015]

I find it funny how some atheists don't want to hear about god or anyone preach religion yet they preach atheism. It would be better if both side believed whatever they want and shut up.

Winner.

 

[Orayn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

And? Gods are a "thing." If someone says that there are powerful human-like entities beyond our perception, with fantastic powers we can't explain, that person is positing the existence of a metric buttload of things. That would normally put the burden of proof on them, no?
The null hypothesis is fine and dandy, as far as science is concerned, as we currently don't have and "god-shaped holes" in any major fields of study.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Lets all be honest here, believing in a god or believing there isn't a god are both reliant on faith and humans believing they are more than they are.

First of all I respect most religions and I love reading about them and their mythology, epic storylines and people of old trying to explain how the universe came about is endlessly interesting to me. But that doesn't change the fact that it is never a proven fact.

I myself do not know if a god exists or not, but I truly don't care enough to prove it mostly cause I feel that it isn't our place to know. Life is mysterious and that is the beauty of it, thinking about how it came to be is one of the most mentally stimulating things anyone can do. I feel that if there was a god and heaven and hell existed god would be reasonable enough to understand who is a good person and not judge them by some old book, and if god doesn't exist well then when you're dead and you won't know cause you're dead. I live y my own rules and since my own rules doesn't involve rape or murder I don't think I am a horrible person.

And another thing I don't like is people claiming god doesn't exist for all the bad shit that happens on earth. I think that a god would be something we can't comprehend let alone judge, and I also feel that humanities faults are humanities responsibility and blaming it on a higher being is retarded. And another case I would like to bring up is if god does exist why would it care enough to give us religion? And why must god look like a human and be male or female or black or white?

It is an interesting subject that I love discussing, but I see that it depends on your audience and 9 times out of 10 you won't be around people who can discuss it with respect mostly cause any argument involving the non existence of god is something a believer won't fathom, and the existence of a god is one an atheist refuses to believe. I hope GAF can prove me wrong but due to the size of the community I don't see it happening.

You nailed it, in fact i will go on to say that 9.9 times out of ten people don't treat each other with respect when discussing things like this, i experienced it in the hand's of some in this thread.

We have a Christianity thread... feel free to join us!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=424176

Shameless advertising? lol, jk.

 

[DeathIsTheEnd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

I can link to wikipedia to: Russel's teapot.

The burden of proof lies upon theists because they are the ones making the claim. Atheists, for the most part, simply lack a belief which is not a claim.

 

[Pixel Pete]

Lets all be honest here, believing in a god or believing there isn't a god are both reliant on faith and humans believing they are more than they are.

Lets be clear here. When an Atheist says "I don't believe in god" what is actually being said is "I lack a belief in god". The two are very different.

You don't need god to think you are more than you are. Carl Sagan teaches that, and I certainly don't need god or religion to get satisfying spiritual experiences from life.

Life is mysterious and that is the beauty of it, thinking about how it came to be is one of the most mentally stimulating things anyone can do.

+1

Hitler was an atheist, Jesus was a theist. That tells you everything you need to know.

GAF record Godwin's Law!

 

[Missle59]

Hitler was an atheist, Jesus was a theist. That tells you everything you need to know.

Hitler had positive statements about theism publicly and negative privately. He also railed against atheism in public statements. His religious views are at best a controversy. However most people believe "as I do" that he was roman catholic.

 

[Sharp]

You are both confusing the issue. The null hypothesis is not that there is no god. The null hypothesis (at least when arguing with a straight-up deist who believes in a "first cause" god) is that a universe with such a god would not be significantly different than one without a god. There's no way of testing that, so it's an unscientific question.

 

[jay]

Lets all be honest here, believing in a god or believing there isn't a god are both reliant on faith and humans believing they are more than they are.

This is what believers tell themselves to make themselves feel better. If lacking a belief takes faith, we all have infinite faith and the word is meaningless.

 

[Cousteau]

Hitler was an atheist, Jesus was a theist. That tells you everything you need to know.

Jesus was a delusionalist and opportunist and well,liar.

 

[Atramental]

Not really. Theism is inherently an unfalisifiable hypothesis--that is to say, beyond the realm of scientific proof. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's false, only that it's not scientific. The same can be said of, say, string theory, which I understand a number of atheists subscribe to.

Theists make the positive claim that god exists. I say prove it. Therefore the burden of proof is on them.

And you are correct Sharp, theism is inherently an unfalsifiable hypothesis but not many theists treat it as such. It's a truism to most of them.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Hitler was an atheist, Jesus was a theist. That tells you everything you need to know.

Good chance one of those guys wasn't real. I'm not talking about the short guy with the weird mustache either.

 

[Cyan]

You nailed it, in fact i will go on to say that 9.9 times out of ten people don't treat each other with respect when discussing things like this, i experienced it in the hand's of some in this thread.

You get what you give, amigo. You started off telling us scientists trying to explain stuff was "laughable," then told us that really atheists believe in God the second they're afraid or in danger.

Surely you weren't surprised to get a negative reaction?

 

[Cousteau]

Jesus was a delusionalist and opportunist and well,liar.

Maybe I have him mixed up with the church, it happens a lot.

 

[Kurdel]

I am siding with the dirty atheists here.

Just looking at the world, and the last 12 000 years of modern civilization, I can't imagine how adults can actually believes there is an omniscient and omnipotent force guiding it all. It's the most random ass chain of events on such a massive scale.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Hitler had positive statements about theism publicly and negative privately. He also railed against atheism in public statements. His religious views are at best a controversy. However most people believe "as I do" that he was roman catholic.

Roman Catholic's are actually the worst of Christians. Their history is a shitfest of violence, it sometimes pains me that "Christians" are all grouped under one banner even though religious views differ greatly under that banner.

 

[mxgt]

Agnostic atheism is pretty neat.

 

[How About No]

If there is a God, I can't perceive it, and if it is imperceptible, it is irrelevant for practical purposes.

This is pretty much my standing.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

You get what you give, amigo. You started off telling us scientists trying to explain stuff was "laughable," then told us that really atheists believe in God the second they're afraid or in danger.

Surely you weren't surprised to get a negative reaction?

You absolutely have no idea what am talking about.

 

[jay]

This is pretty much my standing.

BUT HE LOVES YOU!



This is the thread we are supposed to make fun of religion in, right?

 

[Cyan]

You absolutely have no idea what am talking about.

See what I mean?



Less polite response: "that makes two of us."

 

[Oppo]

I believe in a God in whatever that model of the universe is where God started things (e.g. triggered the Big Bang) and then kept hands-off the rest of the way. No, I have no rational reason to believe this. No, I do not allow this belief to affect my day-to-day life or my ability to make rational decisions. Yes, I am afraid of death and want to believe that I will live on forever in some capacity even though it's wholly illogical. No, I don't think any atheist's arguments are likely to convince me otherwise, and yes I know that religion has been the motivation behind some terrible things. Also: this thread is going to suck.

Wow, a Deist!

I like seeing you guys, its sort of like spotting an albino squirrel, there's so few of you. I mean think about it.

It's always There Is A God or There Is No God, but very rarely do you hear from the There Was Totally A God But He's Long Gone contingent.

I do not mean to mock, I think its honestly pretty intersting that this argument is not more popular.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

See what I mean?



Less polite response: "that makes two of us."

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=432045

Yea.

 

[HephalumpsAndWoozles]

You absolutely have no idea what am talking about.

So, OP, why again is it you believe in God? Do you have any reasoning behind this?

Is it how you were brought up, or something else?

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

but god gave us his words, and he also gave us logic....why shouldn't we judge him?

if he cant be comprehended, why does he even bother with us or vice versa?

First of all since evolution is proven, lets put this to the test. God created earth and life, life evolved and viola you're here. He may have given you the basic structure but in the end what you do is your responsibility. Why blame god for what you have done? And if bad shit comes from god how can you judge something that has infinite more knowledge than you. Or god may not even exist and is the product of man, which in turn you can't really comprehend how the universe develops so how can you judge it?

If it can't be comprehended, than it bothering with us at all in itself is also a mystery, or us caring about a more powerful being who doesn't have much to do with us is also something strange and can be seen as fear.

Like I said before, it is a mystery.

 

[Sharp]

Wow, a Deist!

I like seeing you guys, its sort of like spotting an albino squirrel, there's so few of you. I mean think about it.

It's always There Is A God or There Is No God, but very rarely do you hear from the There Was Totally A God But He's Long Gone contingent.

I do not mean to mock, I think its honestly pretty intersting that this argument is not more popular.

I think a lot of religious scientific researchers hold pretty much this view, actually. It's impossible to work day in, day out exploring the intricacies of the universe and believe that, say, a prayer is going to grant you something, but that doesn't prevent you from having human emotions associated with religion, whether because you grew up with it or it makes you more comfortable or it's simply convenient. Theism provides a nice balance IMO.

 

[3N16MA]

Wow, a Deist!

I like seeing you guys, its sort of like spotting an albino squirrel, there's so few of you. I mean think about it.

It's always There Is A God or There Is No God, but very rarely do you hear from the There Was Totally A God But He's Long Gone contingent.

I do not mean to mock, I think its honestly pretty intersting that this argument is not more popular.

I know a few people who believe in god but no particular religion. I think it's a way for them to still partly believe in something they grew up with but do not follow. I had a former coworker tell me that he believes in god but no religion. He did this because he thought he had a better chance of getting into heaven.

 

[SolidusDave]

Burden of proof is on the theists. *goes off to get a drink*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4

Your move, atheists.

Spoiler

(this video is actually why I try to not argue about religion. There's no point if you are up against such people.)

 

[Wazzim]

This is just a never ending argument, particularly because the believers don't need to prove anything because not having prove makes it a belief.

 

[Oppo]

I think a lot of religious scientific researchers hold pretty much this view, actually. It's impossible to work day in, day out exploring the intricacies of the universe and believe that, say, a prayer is going to grant you something, but that doesn't prevent you from having human emotions associated with religion, whether because you grew up with it or it makes you more comfortable or it's simply convenient. Theism provides a nice balance IMO.

Yeah i would agree with that. I mean its a good way to square that circle.

This very reason is why I also find it interesting that the so-called controversy over evolutionary theory is so base; why not, if you are a believer in God, argue that he sparked evolution? Mostly it seems that the original counter arguments (and some modern ones in the US) stem from simply disliking the idea of being closely related to monkeys.

Your move, atheists

Haha, love that one. Magic Sky Man exists because someone is impressed.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

This is what believers tell themselves to make themselves feel better. If lacking a belief takes faith, we all have infinite faith and the word is meaningless.

You mean as in believing there isn't anything out there isn't a belief as well. It might be rejecting another belief, but it doesn't stop it from being a belief in itself.

 

[Sharp]

I know a few people who believe in god but no particular religion. I think it's a way for them to still partly believe in something they grew up with but do not follow. I had a former coworker tell me that he believes in god but no religion. He did this because he thought he had a better chance of getting into heaven.

Well, this is the easily debunked Pascal's argument. In brief: since God is unfalsifiable there is no way of knowing whether you chose the right religion. Indeed, it's entirely conceivable that the "real" god is one who only grants the souls of atheists heaven.

 

[Relix]

Religion: The root of all fucked in the world

 

[Pixel Pete]

Good chance one of those guys wasn't real. I'm not talking about the short guy with the weird mustache either.

You're acting like they are 2 separate people: http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2011/04/1c8e454eac45f4eb7a8f66a5ee0ea5be.jpg

Wow, a Deist!

I like seeing you guys, its sort of like spotting an albino squirrel, there's so few of you. I mean think about it.

It's always There Is A God or There Is No God, but very rarely do you hear from the There Was Totally A God But He's Long Gone contingent.

I do not mean to mock, I think its honestly pretty intersting that this argument is not more popular.

Thats true. I've noticed more interesting discussions, or at least discussions with less vitriol when religion is kept out of it.

 

[Sharp]

Yeah i would agree with that. I mean its a good way to square that circle.

This very reason is why I also find it interesting that the so-called controversy over evolutionary theory is so base; why not, if you are a believer in God, argue that he sparked evolution? Mostly it seems that the original counter arguments (and some modern ones in the US) stem from simply disliking the idea of being closely related to monkeys.

Evolution is really fundamentally disassociated from theism unless you take the bible literally. The only "spark" that I think some people argue must have come from a deity was the original creation of life from nonlife, but the rest of evolution follows from there. Personally, I see no real reason to believe that life didn't derive from nonlife entirely spontaneously in accordance with the known laws of physics, but I suppose people can believe what they want when it comes to that since we really don't have a way of falsifying it.

 

[blame space]

Religion: The root of all fucked in the world

money

 

[Cyan]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=432045

Yea.

Skimmed through it. People had far more patience than I would've, at least until you starting copy/pasting walls of text.

That never goes over well here.

 

[Stat Flow]

This thread is a good idea. A lot of times in threads people have something to say about the topic but it ties in with religion, so its often a derailer. That way, you can continue the convo in this topic instead. I say that in this thread, if people have a discussion about a topic, they should link to that topic in here and then say what they have to say, and discussion can ensue. Instead of carrying on there, both of them can exist.

With that said, There could be a god, but I doubt it, highly. If a benevolent, omnipotent/omnipresent, and "perfect" (the word perfect in describing something makes no sense) god does exist, he/she/it is a troll.