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Avalanche (Just Cause/Mad Max) hiring to make a crossgen (think PS4/PS5) game, has MP

vareon

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I just bought a PS4 last year so it's hard to imagine that the system is 4 years old now and a 2019 next gen makes sense. Couple that with Switch that was released like yesterday.
 
Jul 25, 2014
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The thing is, I'm not exactly looking forward to next-gen in 2019. 2020 would be much better.

If these machines couldn't keep up with the growing video game tech, maybe they should stop making open world games or pushing the graphics to their limit.

Six years on hardware that wasn't high-end to begin with is ridiculous and the eight years the Xbox 360 had was obscene and I hope it never happens again. By the time we hit 2018/2019, these machines should be showing their age. It'll be a five/six year old gaming machine.
 

Instro

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Jan 14, 2009
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I don't know that there is much to take from this either way, at least as far as guessing a time table. It is specifically talking about engine development, which logically any new engine development at this point would be done with the intent for it to carry the company's products into the next generation of hardware. If it's a small team prototyping stuff now, a product on this new engine would be more than two years away, particularly when you consider that based on previous comments it would be a new IP.

Also I think maybe we are reading this wrong, it says that Avalanche is developing for both current and next gen hardware, but not that this engine/next gen game is specifically expected to be cross gen.
 

AmayaPapaya

Banned
Jul 20, 2013
692
0
0
California
Boo. Too early. Rockstar hasnt even released a game yet, and Bethesda and Naughty Dog only have one title. Maybe this was always gonna be a transitional type of gen? I feel like it still has so much room.
 

kyser73

Member
Sep 29, 2013
8,116
0
520
Last gen: it went on too long, everyone was starving for new hardware after 7 years!!!

Rumours of next gen starting 6 years in: too early, this gen barely started blah blah blah

2019 is fine so long as Sony (who are most likely to drop a new gen around then IMO) can source a well specced machine, if not 2020 is ok too.

But really, I want my new shiny in November 2019.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
15,145
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???
All of this is still happening.

Japan has bounced back (just look at Q1, lots of smaller indie titles this gen as well)

Shooters are less (no bioshock, no crysis etc etc, devs are tackling far more genres, even platformers are starting to do well again)


Studio closures have been minimal (Aside from MS cutting back)

SE has been branching out, Life is Strange is great, we even get a new Kingdom Hearts and FFXV was a step up from FFXIII.
 

peter42O

Member
Aug 9, 2014
4,338
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580
Still see PS5 as being revealed at E3 2020 with a September 2020 release date to celebrate their 25th anniversary in NA. Just under 26 years in Japan.

Don't really see the need for next gen yet with PS4 Pro being released a year ago. When you look at Uncharted 4 on the original PS4 and even God of War running off the original base PS4, PS5 isn't needed as of yet.

Plus, waiting until 2020 should make it much cheaper to have a current CPU that would be future proof for at least five years. PS4 sales are still excellent. No reason to rush out a PS5 like they did with the PS4 Pro.

Hoping for September 2020. Current/five year future proof CPU and minimum 8TF GPU with at least 16GB of RAM or if doable 24GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD. Don't know what the price would be at that time but if there's no mid-gen garbage and it's guaranteed for a five year run, $500 wouldn't be a problem considering $600-$800 for a base PS5 and then a PS5 Pro would be far worse in my opinion.

As for Avalanche, don't they have two studios? It's been two years since Mad Max and Just Cause 3 released so are either one of them working on anything now or is this pretty much it? I know about Biomutant from ex-Avalanche developers but im curious to know if either Avalanche studio is currently working on anything.
 

AniHawk

Member
Jun 7, 2004
74,679
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1,595
Boo. Too early. Rockstar hasnt even released a game yet, and Bethesda and Naughty Dog only have one title. Maybe this was always gonna be a transitional type of gen? I feel like it still has so much room.
this gen started pretty late for microsoft and sorta late for sony and nintendo. 3ds should have been 2010 and every other platform should have launched a year earlier.

2018 for sony would be good to help correct the massively long 7th gen. microsoft is stuck with 2019 at a minimum with xb1. switch is going to be on its own for a while like 3ds was, though vita came out just a year afterward.
 
Jun 28, 2013
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But third parties are putting all their effort into MP games. That's sad.

That's dead wrong though. We're literally a week away from a month that will have 5 AAA sp third party games. Nearly a game a week.

Are they original? No, they're all sequels, but they're clearly sp focused.
 

peter42O

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Aug 9, 2014
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this gen started pretty late for microsoft and sorta late for sony and nintendo. 3ds should have been 2010 and every other platform should have launched a year earlier.

2018 for sony would be good to help correct the massively long 7th gen. microsoft is stuck with 2019 at a minimum with xb1. switch is going to be on its own for a while like 3ds was, though vita came out just a year afterward.

Microsoft and Sony released PS4 and Xbox One a week apart in November 2013. If anything, I think that Wii U, PS4 and Xbox One launched a YEAR TOO EARLY. Just look at how barren and empty 2013 and 2014 were for all three consoles.

No way is Sony going to release PS5 in 2018. Too many games being released for PS4 in 2018 so why would they release PS5 in the same year? I think a 7 year run for PS4/PS4 Pro is good and exactly why Sony released the Pro as an extension to the generation. 2018 would defeat the purpose of the Pro as well. 7 years for PS4, PS5 launches in that 7th year with PS4 being manufactured for another three years to give it it's ten year run before they end production.

Microsoft would be 2021 at the earliest in my opinion with a rare outside chance at 2020. No way Microsoft spent all that money to kill off the X in two years. If that's the case, Microsoft would have been far better off waiting a year and making X their true next gen console and leave the Slim as the brand for Xbox One.
 

kirbyfan407

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Jul 16, 2014
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To the people who have better insight into how game development and console launches work:

Do these job postings suggest that developers are already receiving preliminary briefings on an incoming generation? Does this mean Sony or Microsoft has begun talking to Square-Enix about new hardware, even if in only the vaguest and initial of ways? Or is this likely more just that Tabata's team and Avalanche are, like a lot of people who follow video games, abstractly expecting a new console generation to potentially begin in a few years and want to be prepared?
 

labx

Banned
Apr 21, 2011
1,868
0
0
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That's dead wrong though. We're literally a week away from a month that will have 5 AAA sp third party games. Nearly a game a week.

Are they original? No, they're all sequels, but they're clearly sp focused.

Yes. You are correct, my statement is toward the next generation. Games are difficult to make, they take a lot of time and money. The games that we are experiencing now are products of years of development. Its not for free the amount of remakes, ports, enhanced editions of prior games in this gen, don't you think? This generation of video games (for me) is one of the greatest. But look and gaming right now. A lot of MP games in the future.
 

AniHawk

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Jun 7, 2004
74,679
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Microsoft and Sony released PS4 and Xbox One a week apart in November 2013. If anything, I think that Wii U, PS4 and Xbox One launched a YEAR TOO EARLY. Just look at how barren and empty 2013 and 2014 were for all three consoles.

No way is Sony going to release PS5 in 2018. Too many games being released for PS4 in 2018 so why would they release PS5 in the same year? I think a 7 year run for PS4/PS4 Pro is good and exactly why Sony released the Pro as an extension to the generation. 2018 would defeat the purpose of the Pro as well. 7 years for PS4, PS5 launches in that 7th year with PS4 being manufactured for another three years to give it it's ten year run before they end production.

Microsoft would be 2021 at the earliest in my opinion with a rare outside chance at 2020. No way Microsoft spent all that money to kill off the X in two years. If that's the case, Microsoft would have been far better off waiting a year and making X their true next gen console and leave the Slim as the brand for Xbox One.

they were late because all 7th gen systems were in pretty sharp decline by 2012. 2013 was even worse. they werent able to make a nice transiton and have a legacy platform earn a good chunk of change while new platforms established themselves. this hit nintendo pretty hard but it also affected sony and their handheld line too. it would be better for all parties if they could expand their brands by keeping ps4 and xb1 sales going somewhat strong into 2020 while their successors are already out. it is effectively what nintendo did with gba and ds and 3ds and switch. sony had great success with ps2 after ps3 too.
 

PayaV87

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Jan 21, 2014
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On PS2 the typical dev time was 1 year.
On PS3 it became 2 years.
This gen, on PS4 it’s 3 years.
Next gen could be 4.

The PS5 will have BC, meaning that minimal games will have remastered or definitive editions.

2019/2020 is going to be barren if you only want to play PS5 games, if they didn’t start now or even before.
 

Pachael

Member
Jun 8, 2004
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Considering the recent profitable impacts of GTA Online and the battle Royale genre, it seems to stand that publishers will look to get a large multiplayer open world sandbox/competitive mode sooner or later.

As the number of simultaneous players on a map go upwards and map sizes get larger it's actually interesting to see how they overlap with more traditional MMOs as both genres will face similar tech issues (login, display, chat, squads/parties, battling etc).

The chaos of Just Cause 3 multi (PC) is a fun distraction and I can see Avalanche/SE doing an expanded MP mode with Just Cause 4 if they go down that route. If not another pub will work with Avalanche
 
Jun 28, 2013
8,849
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Yes. You are correct, my statement is toward the next generation. Games are difficult to make, they take a lot of time and money. The games that we are experiencing now are products of years of development. Its not for free the amount of remakes, ports, enhanced editions of prior games in this gen, don't you think? This generation of video games (for me) is one of the greatest. But look and gaming right now. A lot of MP games in the future.

I mean maybe, but if that happens then the industry will crash. You can't just make multiplayer games, and they know this.

All of these games are sequels to existing ips from this generation. They were made, cost a considerable amount of money, and did well enough to justify themselves. The Evil Within can't really switch to an open world loot FPS. It'll succeed or shut down, not much middle ground there.
 

120v

Member
Mar 14, 2013
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Average dev time is about 5 years... why wouldn't 9th gen development be ramping up in 2017?
 

KageMaru

Member
Oct 6, 2010
9,910
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0
Assuming this game takes 3 years to develop and the next gen systems launch 2020, they could be targeted this as a launch window title. With the leap in CPU performance, maybe we'll be seeing a 30fps/60fps split between the current gen and next gen versions.

Really curious to see what they got planned.
 

HowZatOZ

Banned
Dec 4, 2013
5,596
0
0
30
Australia
At AUD$550 a pop I ain't jumping in on the next console cycle on launch. I got the PlayStation 4 on launch, sold it, got an Xbone soon after, sold it and now only own a PlayStation 4 slim because of FFXV and a few others. Hell there are still some games that got announced in the first year of this gen's cycle that haven't come out.

It almost feels like a blur at this stage in console tech, everything seems harder to distinguish and games are taking far longer with less risks and safe choices to keep the wheel going. Obviously indie is still kicking along doing just fine but I was hoping for some inspiring changes to the typical cycle we've seen time and time again. Maybe with PS5/Xbone 2 we'll get devs focusing not on resolution or FPS but on pushing technology forward with VR/AR and behind-the-scenes stuff like AI.

To the people who have better insight into how game development and console launches work:

Do these job postings suggest that developers are already receiving preliminary briefings on an incoming generation? Does this mean Sony or Microsoft has begun talking to Square-Enix about new hardware, even if in only the vaguest and initial of ways? Or is this likely more just that Tabata's team and Avalanche are, like a lot of people who follow video games, abstractly expecting a new console generation to potentially begin in a few years and want to be prepared?

From my understanding you could make a game that targets future technology, or to a lesser extent technology in current PC's that are far better than consoles. The hope is that those targets are correct, or that they need minor tweaking, and that you can then push it across to next-gen with relative ease. I doubt Unreal has a new engine in the works and I'd be surprised if Sony and Microsoft suddenly ditch X86 architecture.
 

peter42O

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Aug 9, 2014
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they were late because all 7th gen systems were in pretty sharp decline by 2012. 2013 was even worse. they werent able to make a nice transiton and have a legacy platform earn a good chunk of change while new platforms established themselves. this hit nintendo pretty hard but it also affected sony and their handheld line too. it would be better for all parties if they could expand their brands by keeping ps4 and xb1 sales going somewhat strong into 2020 while their successors are already out. it is effectively what nintendo did with gba and ds and 3ds and switch. sony had great success with ps2 after ps3 too.

I disagree in regards to the PS3/360 being in sharp decline in 2012/2013. When you see a game like The Last of Us in June 2013 and it easily being the best game on both consoles that year as well as in 2014 including PS4/Xbox One and that every game was a cross gen game, waiting until 2014 to release PS4/Xbox One would have been better in my opinion.

Launch lineups would have been better and instead of it being "slow" and "where are all the games" that was said throughout 2014, there would have been a crap load of launch titles plus remasters and definitive editions.

Sony killed off Vita before it was even launched with outrageous SD card prices. Wii U was a total and complete disaster. PS4 and Xbox One were slow out of the gate and didn't pick up until early 2015 in my opinion. Can't comment on Nintendo portables since I don't pay attention to their handhelds.

2018 for PS5 is 100% NOT going to happen. 2019 is 25% and 2020 is 75% in my opinion. Sony is dominating and simply no reason to release PS5 earlier than they should. Besides, the longer they wait, the cheaper the chipsets should be which would be better for them and us.

If I see PS5 with a Jaguar CPU, I'll 100% wait three years for the PS5 Pro because then, I know that Sony will do that mid-gen crap again. If they're patient and include a far better CPU, then I know that the chances of them doing a Pro is less likely which is what im hoping they do.
 

labx

Banned
Apr 21, 2011
1,868
0
0
Medellín
I mean maybe, but if that happens then the industry will crash. You can't just make multiplayer games, and they know this.

All of these games are sequels to existing ips from this generation. They were made, cost a considerable amount of money, and did well enough to justify themselves. The Evil Within can't really switch to an open world loot FPS. It'll succeed or shut down, not much middle ground there.

Again, you are right. The Evil Within was a risk, but the game did well so they made a sequel.Games like that do not have middle ground, and therefore are exceptions to the rule. Heck, Bethesda is an exception to the rule. And MP made a lot of cash. Loot boxes, microtransactions, etc.
 
May 3, 2015
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I think we still have a good 3+ years in this generation, but even if the PS5 is out in 2019, I can’t wait to see some of the late gen PS4 games. Some of my favorite games on last gen hardware came late in their life cycles i.e Arkham City, Far Cry 3, GTA V, Bioshock Infinite, TLOU. Those games had no business looking that good on what was outdated hardware at that point.

Anyway, I wonder if this is the NYC studio hiring.
 
Jun 13, 2014
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I hope they have learned from Just Cause 3, that game had a lot of missteps and huge technical flaws.

Its cool though that dev studios are thinking about next gen already, next years E3 is shaping up to be pretty interesting.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,221
2
0
America
Every dev wants to atleast have preliminary work going into 2019 2020 in anticipation for a possible next gen. Unless your engine is already highly scalable.
 

daveo42

Banned
Dec 28, 2012
29,361
1
0
2019 fits the new release schedule of releasing new hardware every three years. Personally, waiting for 2020 might be better, but we don't know how long the Pro's legs are after the release of the X1X and some some new chip work in the next few years from Intel, Nvidia, and AMD.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,221
2
0
America
I feel like devs haven't even started making good use of the pro and obviously the one X since it's not out yet. 2019 would feel weird

What do you actually expect them to do to "make use" of the pro and X? This is as much as an iterative unit was ever supposed to do, which is why i feel like it was never all that necessary for Sony to bother with it
 

Rosstimus

Banned
Dec 30, 2016
169
3
235
hmm.. I feel like this gen is in a sweet spot right now. It took a while, but we're finally seeing a consistent stream of quality titles coming out. I'm not ready for the slow start that typically occurs at the beginning of a new gen.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,221
2
0
America
To the people who have better insight into how game development and console launches work:

Do these job postings suggest that developers are already receiving preliminary briefings on an incoming generation? Does this mean Sony or Microsoft has begun talking to Square-Enix about new hardware, even if in only the vaguest and initial of ways? Or is this likely more just that Tabata's team and Avalanche are, like a lot of people who follow video games, abstractly expecting a new console generation to potentially begin in a few years and want to be prepared?

I'm sure Sony and MS are already in preliminary talk with devs and other people, even though their actual hardware tech isnt likely even created yet, that's usually how it goes. And devs can on their own created games to target next gen hardware even without knowing detailed specs by guessing. Rocksteady did this with Batman Arkham Knight. They basically targeted the fidelity of the 2011 Samaritan demo, and got pretty close, even surpassed it in other ways.
 

AmyS

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Aug 22, 2012
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I'm game.
 

Asd202

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Jun 18, 2013
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SE is definitely in the know going by there comments also looking at Sony announcements this year and even Japanese 3rd party developers announcements at TGS there is nothing that was dated farther than 2018 heck most stuff was first half of that year. Well outside of maybe TLOU II. Seems like PS5 will be 2019 or 2020. Would not be surprised if FFVII remake will end up to be cross gen and PS5 launch title.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,997
12,801
2,110
I disagree in regards to the PS3/360 being in sharp decline in 2012/2013. When you see a game like The Last of Us in June 2013 and it easily being the best game on both consoles that year as well as in 2014 including PS4/Xbox One and that every game was a cross gen game, waiting until 2014 to release PS4/Xbox One would have been better in my opinion.

Launch lineups would have been better and instead of it being "slow" and "where are all the games" that was said throughout 2014, there would have been a crap load of launch titles plus remasters and definitive editions.

Sony killed off Vita before it was even launched with outrageous SD card prices. Wii U was a total and complete disaster. PS4 and Xbox One were slow out of the gate and didn't pick up until early 2015 in my opinion. Can't comment on Nintendo portables since I don't pay attention to their handhelds.

2018 for PS5 is 100% NOT going to happen. 2019 is 25% and 2020 is 75% in my opinion. Sony is dominating and simply no reason to release PS5 earlier than they should. Besides, the longer they wait, the cheaper the chipsets should be which would be better for them and us.

If I see PS5 with a Jaguar CPU, I'll 100% wait three years for the PS5 Pro because then, I know that Sony will do that mid-gen crap again. If they're patient and include a far better CPU, then I know that the chances of them doing a Pro is less likely which is what im hoping they do.

When you are dominating it is a good time to launch a successor actually, you do not want to wait until your product is considered obsolete and it is not popular/selling anymore to replace it. It must be worth something to people to know this is the successor to PS4.

I think there will be a PS5 Pro and that PS5 will have. A much improved non Jaguar based CPU: Sony would not dramatically alter the CPU in a Pro model.
 

bitbydeath

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Nov 25, 2015
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When you are dominating it is a good time to launch a successor actually, you do not want to wait until your product is considered obsolete and it is not popular/selling anymore to replace it. It must be worth something to people to know this is the successor to PS4.

I think there will be a PS5 Pro and that PS5 will have. A much improved non Jaguar based CPU: Sony would not dramatically alter the CPU in a Pro model.

I don't think we'll see a PS5 Pro, it'd require 8K to be ready and 4K is still in the midst of taking off.
 

icecold1983

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Feb 28, 2010
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ps4 pro sales are already bad, a ps5 in 2019 is not going to do well. sony is overestimating how many customers are already ready for a ps5 IMO. also wont even be a big jump in horsepower
 

AmyS

Member
Aug 22, 2012
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455
I don't think we'll see a PS5 Pro, it'd require 8K to be ready and 4K is still in the midst of taking off.

I agree.

Just make PS5 strong enough to last 6+ years.

Next-gen physics, world simulation, graphics.

Native 4K resolution.

Next-gen VR.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 14, 2013
16,619
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0
A four year development cycle give or take so makes sense to go for next as well and really they way Sony and Microsoft are going, I doubt it's going to be a headache. Better hardware, turn the knobs up, not a Dec but you get what I mean. We are all PC now.
 
Feb 21, 2014
1,401
0
305
London, UK
Looking for a senior designer could also indicate that the project is in its infancy. Given how long new IP takes anymore, this doesn't necessarily mean 2019.

Yup. I think Sony is pushing for developers to start taking ps5 into consideration for its 2020 launch. That way there will be plenty of games available that take good advantage of the hardware day 1.