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B. Johnson to suspend parliament, to prevent it from stopping hard brexit

MilkyJoe

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Jan 29, 2014
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Agreed, I think the whole EU needs to be dissolved and replaced with a new EEC. I don't really agree with the UK exiting the single market though (not for the next 10 years at least). I think the UK should join the EEA and start trying to pick apart the EU from the outside. First it should try and get the non-Eurozone countries to leave (Denmark and Sweden would be good candidates, seeing as their neighbour Norway is already out). The EEA was meant to be a step towards joining the EU, but we could turn it into a soft exit from the EU. We can all live in peace and trade together without a huge, undemocratic and expensive bureaucracy in Brussels.
Creating a new trade partnership has been the obvious thing to do.
 

GamingKaiju

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Oct 24, 2014
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So we are to assume that the EU have set all these laws and regulations so that they impact negatively on the UK? For fun?

We already make our own laws.

Looks good on paper but it's swings and roundabouts. It's easy to blame the failing country on outsiders, but I don't see the USA improving under Trump's "take back control, jobs for the people" insular rhetoric. It's diversion tactics. The reason every service in the UK is redlining isn't because of the EU. That's a helpful boogeyman. But it's because of things like the UK government letting Amazon, Apple etc get off with billions in tax. That money should go directly to schools and hospitals but our government are letting them get away with it ON PURPOSE. We should start looking in the mirror before blaming others for our problems. We should be electing decent people to power, not posh fat cat glory hunter scum who are only out to line their own pockets. We need to be cleaning our own house, not blaming other countries - that's pathetic.
In some areas it is little as 30% of our laws is controlled by the EU but in others it's closer to 70% it just depends on which area it is covering. But in the areas I listed in my previous post it is all controlled by the EU and the commission we have very little say on how VAT is applied and collected because it is all controlled by the EU.

The EU is a neo liberal pro corporation block, do you even understand what the EU is. It lets corporations get away with all sorts of shit, what about the VW emissions scandal I didn't see the EU come out waving a massive fine for VW group hmmm :pie_thinking: wonder why that is. I agree our government should tax Amazon more but Apple is ROI bud and out of the UK's control. I haven't blamed the EU for anything, I never made negative point of how the EU have damaged us, I was making a case that having the ability to control certain things has actually helped us. I even provided an example of how GBP helped us during the rescission.

You are just spouting nonsense and drinking from the EU kool and I say that as a remain voter but even I can see the EU isn't all smiles and rainbows.

Come back to me when you have a well informed and reasoned point to make that counters anything I have said.
 
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Dontero

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Apr 19, 2018
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Agreed, I think the whole EU needs to be dissolved and replaced with a new EEC. I don't really agree with the UK exiting the single market though (not for the next 10 years at least). I think the UK should join the EEA and start trying to pick apart the EU from the outside. First it should try and get the non-Eurozone countries to leave (Denmark and Sweden would be good candidates, seeing as their neighbour Norway is already out). The EEA was meant to be a step towards joining the EU, but we could turn it into a soft exit from the EU. We can all live in peace and trade together without a huge, undemocratic and expensive bureaucracy in Brussels.
The base rule should be old rules that if any nations has issues it can veto new changes. Union of minimums guarantee that everyone is happy and such rule was fundamental for EEC. After it changed to EU we started to see cracks and factions formed that started to fight for power.
 
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Vow

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So we are to assume that the EU have set all these laws and regulations so that they impact negatively on the UK? For fun?

We already make our own laws.

Looks good on paper but it's swings and roundabouts. It's easy to blame the failing country on outsiders, but I don't see the USA improving under Trump's "take back control, jobs for the people" insular rhetoric. It's diversion tactics. The reason every service in the UK is redlining isn't because of the EU. That's a helpful boogeyman. But it's because of things like the UK government letting Amazon, Apple etc get off with billions in tax. That money should go directly to schools and hospitals but our government are letting them get away with it ON PURPOSE. We should start looking in the mirror before blaming others for our problems. We should be electing decent people to power, not posh fat cat glory hunter scum who are only out to line their own pockets. We need to be cleaning our own house, not blaming other countries - that's pathetic.
I studied EU law at university. EU law is supreme. The scope of law we are still allowed to make in this country is the political equivalent of being able to vote for who you want to win on Celebrity Love Island. There are entire swathes of law over which we have no power and these are the areas that effectively allow a country to have self determination. MEPs are paid enormous salaries to believe in the illusion of EU democracy. You however are paid nothing.

Here, educate yourself on austerity and the EU: http://www.dailyglobe.co.uk/comment/austerity-has-not-been-a-tory-choice-but-an-eu-one/
 

Acidizer

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Jun 7, 2018
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If there would be one good thing from Brexit maybe we can remove that scapegoat that politicians and voters have been using for years and maybe start pointing blaming the right direction.

Boris Johnson making speeches regularly that net him upwards of 100k a time... if you think that is acceptable then I guess we deserve everything we get. Maybe capping politicians pay at 30k with no expenses would attract the right kind of people for the job, maybe get some grown ups into the houses of parliament. And capitalising on a previous government position should be made illegal. If you don't wont to serve the public and then shut the fuck up after it then you shouldn't be in the job. No books, no speeches, no advisory roles. These fuckers are probably committing treason in some instances I'd bet.

I suspect after Brexit though some other scapegoat will arise. The Sun and Daily Mail will need to find a new target, or keep of old one and refashion it somehow - and people will still fall for it. But the idea that the EU impedes and constricts this country in critical ways is off and that will be proven in the years to come when the British Empire 2.0 fails to materialise.
 
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Vow

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Dec 19, 2018
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If there would be one good thing from Brexit maybe we can remove that scapegoat that politicians and voters have been using for years and maybe start pointing blaming the right direction.

Boris Johnson making speeches regularly that net him upwards of 100k a time... if you think that is acceptable then I guess we deserve everything we get. Maybe capping politicians pay at 30k with no expenses would attract the right kind of people for the job, maybe get some grown ups into the houses of parliament. And capitalising on a previous government position should be made illegal. If you don't wont to serve the public and then shut the fuck up after it then you shouldn't be in the job. No books, no speeches, no advisory roles. These fuckers are probably committing treason in some instances I'd bet.

I suspect after Brexit though some other scapegoat will arise. The Sun and Daily Mail will need to find a new target, or keep of old one and refashion it somehow - and people will still fall for it. But the idea that the EU impedes and constricts this country in critical ways is off and that will be proven in the years to come when the British Empire 2.0 fails to materialise.
Nicholas Nassim Taleb suggested a policy of capping all future earnings of politicians thus: ""A simple solution, but quite drastic: anyone who goes into public service should not be allowed to subsequently earn more from any commercial activity than the income of the highest paid civil servant. It is like a voluntary cap (it would prevent people from using public office as a credential-building temporary accommodation, then going to Wall Street to earn several million dollars). This would get priestly people into office."

Sortition could be a way to go.

Also please calm down, it may stop you from bibbling on about British Empire 2.0 and other such nonsense. Did you read the link about austerity and the EU?
 
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Acidizer

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I may be babbling about British Empire 2.0 but tell me, how many times has the war been invoked over Brexit by politicians? (and not just BJ) - this is the mentality we are dealing with. I don;t know why anyone is talking about WWII in regards to Brexit but the politicians choose these words on purpose.

This Nicholas Nassim Taleb guy sounds alright. But we all know this sensible (and most probably revolutionary for society) proposition to curtail glory hunters and business people disguised as politicians would never gain traction. Doesn't matter how many times politicians get caught with their pants down or hand in the cookie jar - we just put up with this shit.
 
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That also happens to prop up the economy
By some miracle the nats;

A) Get a second referendum ( referendums are forever dead in this country)

B)Vote to leave this time

All we have to do is ignore the result anyway, or insist on upon a point of negotiation that's utterly unacceptable for both countries and hammer it forever more... For example a hard border between England and Scotland.

This is a nation of precedent, and the precedent has now been set.

Look, Scotland currently is a socialist shithole ran by pink haired retards and women that look like men. The Nat economic plan was entirely based upon oil, and not even months after they gave a stay vote the price of oil utterly tanked. This Sturgeon whore's new plan? A Green New Deal, for fucks sake lads.
 

Vow

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Dec 19, 2018
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I may be babbling about British Empire 2.0 but tell me, how many times has the war been invoked over Brexit by politicians? (and not just BJ) - this is the mentality we are dealing with. I don;t know why anyone is talking about WWII in regards to Brexit but the politicians choose these words on purpose.

This Nicholas Nassim Taleb guy sounds alright. But we all know this sensible (and most probably revolutionary) proposition to curtail glory hunters and business people disguised as politicians would never gain traction. Doesn't matter how many times politicians get caught with their pants down or hand in the cookie jar - we just put up with this shit.
So you didn't read it, ok.

Here's another thing you might want to not read about the EU's plans: https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/hero-brexit-lord-james-blackheath-threatened-over-eu-defence-union
 

Gashtronomy

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Apr 19, 2019
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Just to give some info for non-UK posters in regards to the Scotland referendum and threats of leaving the UK and joining the EU:

I lived and worked in Scotland for two years (in the North) nobody wants to leave, because they know how much it would cost.

  • Scotland have free university, paid for by England
  • Free prescriptions, paid for by England
  • The British armed forces, including nuclear submarines, army training grounds and a large installment of the Air force, are located in Scotland. If Scotland left they would have no army and it would cost them 10's thousands of jobs.
  • Oil is British owned, British refined and sold for the good of Britain. Scotland would lose its' stake in the oil fields.
  • It would not be allowed to use the Sterling currency and would have to make their own OR beg the EU for the Euro. Which means the EU could set the prices of anything they wanted...
While some Scottish yoofs wanted to vote to leave Britian, they did so because they see England and the English as the 'big invaders', totally ignoring how beneficial the union is for all involved.
 

Acidizer

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1.6m people voted to leave in the last referendum. Hardly "nobody". There is no way that number isn't going to jump in the next referednum, whenever that may be.

This "paid for by England" is really toxic also. England doesn't fucking own Scotland, it is a united country... as if England get fuck all in return. Scummy attitude. The oil is in Scotland, ergo it is Scotland's. Funny how that becomes "British". England can choose to make prescriptions free if that's how they want to choose to spend their budget, but that would be something approaching compassion. So of course not.

If Scotland is such a drain on England's resources, feel free to stop blocking a 2nd independence referendum...
 
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Vow

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Dec 19, 2018
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1.6m people voted to leave in the last referendum. Hardly "nobody". There is no way that number isn't going to jump in the next referednum, whenever that may be.

This "paid for by England" is really toxic also. England doesn't fucking own Scotland, it is a united country... as if England get fuck all in return. Scummy attitude.

If Scotland is such a drain on England's resources, feel free to stop blocking a 2nd independence referendum...
According to a conservative comeback against the awful Ian Blackford in the Commons the other day more people in Scotland voted to leave the EU than voted for the SNP in the last election.


Shortly after the referendum, Lord Ashcroft’s polls showed that in Scotland, some 36% of Yes supporters had voted Leave. SNP supporters were more likely to vote to Leave than Conservatives! But the SNP is now seen as one of the most pro-Remain parties in Britain. Only one single SNP parliamentarian, Alex Neil, has admitted to voting Leave. The fifteen per cent of Scots who voted Yes/Leave are political orphans. No party and not a single newspaper or website espouse our cause.
 

MilkyJoe

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Jan 29, 2014
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By some miracle the nats;

A) Get a second referendum ( referendums are forever dead in this country)

B)Vote to leave this time

All we have to do is ignore the result anyway, or insist on upon a point of negotiation that's utterly unacceptable for both countries and hammer it forever more... For example a hard border between England and Scotland.

This is a nation of precedent, and the precedent has now been set.

Look, Scotland currently is a socialist shithole ran by pink haired retards and women that look like men. The Nat economic plan was entirely based upon oil, and not even months after they gave a stay vote the price of oil utterly tanked. This Sturgeon whore's new plan? A Green New Deal, for fucks sake lads.
he woman is a fooking spastic. I'm guessing she got blown out by an Englishman
 

Acidizer

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Jun 7, 2018
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Embarrassing. The English think they are superior to the rest of the world, overlooking the fact most of them are inbred fucks.
 

Acidizer

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EU referendum wise, there's an actual statistical correlation between Leave voters and lack of education, furthermore actual pensioners cast the most amount of Leave votes.

The majority of Tory party members would rather see the UK split up than continue with EU membership. Real masterminds (probably the dementia) and the vast majority of UKIP and Brexit Party voters come from England.
 

Vow

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EU referendum wise, there's an actual statistical correlation between Leave voters and lack of education, furthermore actual pensioners cast the most amount of Leave votes.

The majority of Tory party members would rather see the UK split up than continue with EU membership. Real masterminds (probably the dementia) and the vast majority of UKIP and Brexit Party voters come from England.
 
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Gashtronomy

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1.6m people voted to leave in the last referendum. Hardly "nobody". There is no way that number isn't going to jump in the next referednum, whenever that may be.

This "paid for by England" is really toxic also. England doesn't fucking own Scotland, it is a united country... as if England get fuck all in return. Scummy attitude. The oil is in Scotland, ergo it is Scotland's. Funny how that becomes "British". England can choose to make prescriptions free if that's how they want to choose to spend their budget, but that would be something approaching compassion. So of course not.

If Scotland is such a drain on England's resources, feel free to stop blocking a 2nd independence referendum...
Well, you've taken my post with intentions of non-bias and relaying some of my personal experience working with and living with the Scots as an Englishman, and taken it to the extreme. You sound too personally invested in this, to the point where your judgement has become clouded.

It is paid for by England. Never once did I say England didn't get anything in return. They are words you used, not mine. My words were
how beneficial the union is for all involved.
The oil is in the North Sea. The North Sea is a British territory and it would come down to a major dispute who owns the oil fields. Take in to consideration that Scotland would default any claim on any "British" owned company.

I notice that you ignored the factor of the armed forces, a major contributor to the Scottish Economy and Scottish Jobs and a major contributor to the Union.

I did, by mistake, miss out that Scotland pays no tuition fees at university. If, for talks sake, from the 1st January 2020, Scotland voted to leave the Union, those students would all have to pay fees to the universities. The students would have to apply for credit from the banking insititions which...have no money as Scotland would cease to be allowed to use the Sterling currency.

1.6 million people may have voted to leave the Union founded on emotions, much like your posts. Those 1.6 million didn't contemplate the real world implications of what their life would look like, living in country with no jobs, no money and no defense...

However, my post was aimed to help non-British posters understand the Scottish independence issue. You ignored those people, hi-jacked a post that was genuine in bolstering the back-ground knowledge of posters on this forum, so that they could feel more comfortable in offering their points of view or raising their own questions.

If you have your own points to raise, do it in a respectful manner, while being mindful of those who may not have the view-point that you do. We all want to discuss our experiences and yours is just as valid as anyone elses, as long as it's respectful and truthful. No more making up quotes, that's disingenuous and hurts your own argument.
 

Acidizer

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"It is paid for by England". No. It is paid for by the UK government, which just happens to be located in England.

You seem to think English citizens are bankrolling "free" shit in Scotland.
 

Gashtronomy

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the word "education" is derived from the Latin word ēducātiō ("A breeding, a bringing up, a rearing") from ēducō ("I educate, I train") which is related to the homonym ēdūcō ("I lead forth, I take out; I raise up, I erect") from ē- ("from, out of") and dūcō ("I lead, I conduct").[3]
A university degree is degree in a specific field. It has no links to education, outside of the socially accepted term that 'education' means level of academic schooling.

Would you disagree that Beckham or Pele were some of the most intelligent people, educated in the field of football? They held no degrees. This can be used in any field from sport, acting to media and everything in between.

Henry ford was as academically educated as a house plant. Yet he is one of the most famous forward-thinkers in history.

Even if we ignore all that, your charts do you a disservice; most people over the age of 40 didn't attend university, as it was priced out of all but the most important roles; doctors, lawyers, even engineers.

Britain, traditionally was an industrial nation. Apprenticeships, where people learned a trade based on hand-skills, was the modern-day equivalent of university. It is only since the turn the of the millennium that we have moved from skilled trades to IT and service based roles.

If your charts took in to account all of those voters, over 40, who had earned an apprentice trade vs voters under the age of 40 with university degrees, you would see both sets of numbers relatively comparable.

But please, keep changing the goal posts. I always enjoyed 'whack-a-mole' as a kid,
 
Sep 9, 2018
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EU referendum wise, there's an actual statistical correlation between Leave voters and lack of education, furthermore actual pensioners cast the most amount of Leave votes.

The majority of Tory party members would rather see the UK split up than continue with EU membership. Real masterminds (probably the dementia) and the vast majority of UKIP and Brexit Party voters come from England.
A) What are you insinuating at with this? Because College whilst I was there was wholly taken over by weird fucking EU logo's everywhere, with orwellian fucking government and Europhiliac videos on induction. (bizarre shit)
If you're implying some kind of intelligence gap... Look, university goers are starting their lives off with £40-50k's worth of debt for horseshit degrees, two thirds of which will never pay back. And half of those graduates are currently working jobs which didn't require said degree. That's hardly a sign of intelligence.

B) I'm not surprised pensioners voted Leave, after all they're the only ones old enough to actually remember the last time this country had something resembling a civilisation.
 

TheHighFlyingBirds

Formerly 'jep_uk'
Nov 5, 2014
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EU referendum wise, there's an actual statistical correlation between Leave voters and lack of education, furthermore actual pensioners cast the most amount of Leave votes.

The majority of Tory party members would rather see the UK split up than continue with EU membership. Real masterminds (probably the dementia) and the vast majority of UKIP and Brexit Party voters come from England.
At least we know what the british flag is called. Its the union flag, its only a union jack on a ship.

With regards to degrees, remainers and younger generations I'm guessing that labours push for all to go to uni plays a part in that. I would be interested to see what those degrees are and if its been beneficial in their careers.
 

Acidizer

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At least we know what the british flag is called. Its the union flag, its only a union jack on a ship.
Yeah, I know smarty pants. You're not schooling anyone. Look at post #91 on page 2. I call it the Union Flag before I ever call it the Jack, but I lower my terminology amongst esteemed company since most English idiots call it the Jack regardless :messenger_winking:

 
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MilkyJoe

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Jan 29, 2014
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1.6m people voted to leave in the last referendum. Hardly "nobody". There is no way that number isn't going to jump in the next referednum, whenever that may be.

This "paid for by England" is really toxic also. England doesn't fucking own Scotland, it is a united country... as if England get fuck all in return. Scummy attitude. The oil is in Scotland, ergo it is Scotland's. Funny how that becomes "British". England can choose to make prescriptions free if that's how they want to choose to spend their budget, but that would be something approaching compassion. So of course not.

If Scotland is such a drain on England's resources, feel free to stop blocking a 2nd independence referendum...
You better suck up the hate for your overlords and get use to the idea of a life of mediocrity and black clouds, you're not going anywhere :messenger_grinning:
 
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Acidizer

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BJ not content with ignoring conventions, lowering the bar for a PM and ministerial conduct in general, now he's embarrassed the Queen.
 

Ellis

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The whole thing is a complete cluster fuck, but Scottish parliament really needs to wind its neck in and shut the fuck up. It's getting boring to listen to now. There is no rules-for-one or independent Scotland. They don't have the economy or the infrastructure to survive as an independent nation, and that is a fact.
 
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Acidizer

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Embarrassing the Queen over parliamentary matters is nothing compared to her own family embarrassing her over PR disasters.
Does that negate matters?

The Queen appointed BJ, so she should sack the fumbling twat.

Air Miles should be taken out to the gallows.
 
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GamingKaiju

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So the Scottish courts rule pro-rogation is illegal but I thought it was legal and a political matter not a legal one. Just more time wasting by the remainer alliance doing everything in their power to keep us in the EU.

Take this shit to the high courts and let them decide they can have final say over the matter. If they had put this much effort into sorting Brexit we would be done with it, instead they’re wasting time and money and only dividing us more with this shit.


Don’t hold any more referendums it’s clear if the result isn’t what Parliament likes they aren’t to going to carry it out.
 

Acidizer

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The whole thing is a complete cluster fuck, but Scottish parliament really needs to wind its neck in and shut the fuck up. It's getting boring to listen to now. There is no rules-for-one or independent Scotland. They don't have the economy or the infrastructure to survive as an independent nation, and that is a fact.
Typical bitter rabid nonsense. It's not a fact, and you saying it doesn't make it one either. Scottish law and English law are different, maybe you didn't know that in your ignorance. Last I looked we were still in the United Kingdom and this ruling applies. Sorry about that.
 

GamingKaiju

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No body is bitter or rabid it’s frustrating watching this play out.

There has been numerous court cases made against Brexit. Gina Miller took government to court over if it was legal for them to leave the EU without Parliaments say so. One against the actual referendum, another against the beleave campaigner, I think Scotland has had 2 as well.

How many times are you going to use the legal system to stop us leaving? It’s a joke and only making us look like a joke.

We could always rejoin the EU after Brexit but I don’t see Brexit happening now unless we have a GE and Conservatives gain a majority on a manifesto of leaving even then the gutless cowards won’t call one before Brexit because Labour know they have more to lose than the Conservatives.
 
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Ellis

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Typical bitter rabid nonsense. It's not a fact, and you saying it doesn't make it one either. Scottish law and English law are different, maybe you didn't know that in your ignorance. Last I looked we were still in the United Kingdom and this ruling applies. Sorry about that.
Exactly, still in the United Kingdom. Maybe they should act like it.

What I said is the harsh truth and you know it dude. I'm not looking to argue, just stating how it is.