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Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)
- Thread starter Ahasverus
- Start date
Just finished watching the Extended Cut with my brother and dad. All 3 of us never saw the theatrical cut but are big DC fans. We all really enjoyed it a lot, I thought it was great. It's currently my favorite comic book movie.
I felt like everything that looked wrong from an outsider's perspective (
) didn't feel as bad within the context of the movie especially as an extension of MoS. I personally didn't like MoS, but after seeing BVS, I appreciate the arc I think they're trying to convey with Superman.
That
I felt like everything that looked wrong from an outsider's perspective (
Superman never smiling, Batman killing, annoying Lex
That
Capital Hill explosion was done really well, especially as I was really starting to like that senator lady.
I had the chance to watch this.
The added scenes do add some much needed exposition and make several scenes feel a lot more cohesive to the story. One of the Superman-related scenes in particular was very effective, and I do not understand why it was left out.
It's not a magic bullet though. All of the problems of the film still exist, though it lightens the blow. If they really wanted to release an "ultimate cut", they would have included these scenes, left out 90% of Lex Luthor, removed the Batman brandings, and figured out some way to edit out the awful "MARTHA!!??!?!" thing, which was like middle school tier writing and conflict resolution.
Edit: on a second watching Superman briefly became Phil Dunphy
The added scenes do add some much needed exposition and make several scenes feel a lot more cohesive to the story. One of the Superman-related scenes in particular was very effective, and I do not understand why it was left out.
It's not a magic bullet though. All of the problems of the film still exist, though it lightens the blow. If they really wanted to release an "ultimate cut", they would have included these scenes, left out 90% of Lex Luthor, removed the Batman brandings, and figured out some way to edit out the awful "MARTHA!!??!?!" thing, which was like middle school tier writing and conflict resolution.
Edit: on a second watching Superman briefly became Phil Dunphy
Marion Cobretti
Member
Yeah, when all is said and done, just on the visuals and music alone, this movie is a 6.7
The photography in this movie is hands down the best in the genre. Any interactions between Affect and Irons is downright Batman porn. Soooo good!
You get Snyder a good script, and he has the potential to do as good as Ridley Scott at his best.
The photography in this movie is hands down the best in the genre. Any interactions between Affect and Irons is downright Batman porn. Soooo good!
You get Snyder a good script, and he has the potential to do as good as Ridley Scott at his best.
MrMephistoX
Member
I don't remember the TC cut of Watchmen at all but damn that director's cut is great.
so are we allowed to talk about spoilers because I have a question holy shit.
Darkseid? Is he "coming"? If so, this means the good timeline is going to happen? Because Lois didn't die and make Superman go evil? In this movie, the flash comes back in time through the speedforce to tell bats that he was "always right about him" [Superman being bad news]. But that is the "bad timeline" right? Because Superman didn't go evil? The sequel (justice league movie) should be dope.
Also, at the end of the movie, bats tels wonder woman that he has a hunch thT the justice league will have to fight? Is he acknowledging that nightmare he had?
Sorry for so many questions, I don't read the comics. Was wondering if this is explained there.
Also, at the end of the movie, bats tels wonder woman that he has a hunch thT the justice league will have to fight? Is he acknowledging that nightmare he had?
Sorry for so many questions, I don't read the comics. Was wondering if this is explained there.
Darkseid's forces, yes.
No one really knows what's going on with that Knightmare. It was supposed to pay off in a later movie but it may not since there was such a backlash towards the movie.
Partly the Knightmare but mostly Lex's rambling is what motivates Batman to find the other metahumans.
Bats put two and two together after the knightmare scene and then discovering the metahuman files.
wesleyshark
Banned
Can't get over how much better the extended cut is. It's like a completely different film.
Not necessarily. More to do with the information he learned from Lex in prison and the knightmare vision
Just finished watching it. The expanded scenes improve the first act of the film enormously in terms of connective tissue and fleshing out the Lois Lane and Clark Kent subplots. It makes Superman's disdain for Batman much more justified, and it really spells out the Luthor conspiracy in a much more concise way. But... all the flaws of the rest of the movie are still there, and nothing really fixes it. Batman is still a total moron who has no reason to fight Superman at all, at least not in such a violent way especially when Luthor's involvement in the bombing should be obvious to him. Superman giving up after trying to tell Batman that it was all a misunderstanding just twice, and then going full WWE on him is also totally illogical. The script forces the title fight so awkwardly, it feels like the most expensive wrestling match ever staged, and feels just as artificial. Doomsday is still a totally pointless part of the climax, and so is the Knightmare scene.
This extended version does not fix the film, but it makes what is enjoyable about the film more enjoyable, and it makes the slower subplots in the earlier part of the film have more of a place in the overall narrative. More than anything else, by the end of the film I finally see the true fundamental flaw in the movie. The reason why I think it is mocked so much by critics and seen as a failure in cinematic execution. At the heart of it, the story is a total silly ass comic book misunderstanding engineered by an insane mustache-twirling villain ending with three over the top man child fantasy brawls. It's filled with cheese and shouldn't be taken remotely seriously and just enjoyed. That's fine. But it is all that, shot with the reverence of a dramatic epic, begging to be taken seriously and respected. That doesn't work for lots of people. I think it's pretty cool to try something like that, but that also means when scenes work, they fucking work, but when they fall flat, it really feels like a big joke. This is the superhero version of Pearl Harbor in a sense, but obviously more fun and less offensive since it isn't actually based on tragic historical events.
This extended version does not fix the film, but it makes what is enjoyable about the film more enjoyable, and it makes the slower subplots in the earlier part of the film have more of a place in the overall narrative. More than anything else, by the end of the film I finally see the true fundamental flaw in the movie. The reason why I think it is mocked so much by critics and seen as a failure in cinematic execution. At the heart of it, the story is a total silly ass comic book misunderstanding engineered by an insane mustache-twirling villain ending with three over the top man child fantasy brawls. It's filled with cheese and shouldn't be taken remotely seriously and just enjoyed. That's fine. But it is all that, shot with the reverence of a dramatic epic, begging to be taken seriously and respected. That doesn't work for lots of people. I think it's pretty cool to try something like that, but that also means when scenes work, they fucking work, but when they fall flat, it really feels like a big joke. This is the superhero version of Pearl Harbor in a sense, but obviously more fun and less offensive since it isn't actually based on tragic historical events.
sems4arsenal
Member
Started reading TDKR a few days ago, the nods in the movie are more special to me now. Elevates the movie.
BronsonLee
Member
WHAT'S WRONG WITH PRO WRESTLING DUCK *tips over small coffee table*
Just watched it and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm glad I wasn't tainted with a previous theatrical cut viewing. That and watching it on my Atmos home theater is a superior experience. Looked and sounded fantastic. I'm really excited for Justice League now. Loved the Wonder Woman enters battle music too. I thought they did a good job of showing Batman's prep superiority and WW being bad ass. I didn't realize Gal Gadot is as tall as she is.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Definitely agree about this being a pretty damn great movie. I wish more people saw the light, since you know they aren't going to let the DCEU happen the way it organically was heading. Instead, I can see it going more popcorn and gags... Such a shame.
The world-building in this movie is unmatched in the genre. I love how the characters have been humanized and are therefore more relatable. Not always for good, mind you, but the actual emotion, biases, and faults of humanity, as well as their best qualities are all there.
The world-building in this movie is unmatched in the genre. I love how the characters have been humanized and are therefore more relatable. Not always for good, mind you, but the actual emotion, biases, and faults of humanity, as well as their best qualities are all there.
MrMephistoX
Member
Eh I'd almost rather see him turn into Doctor Manhattan...completely powerful, immortal and thus detached from humanity.
Just saw this on my newsfeed.
http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/07/31/why-batman-v-superman-is-smarter-than-you-think-/
Thoughts? Agree or disagree with some of the things brought up here?
http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/07/31/why-batman-v-superman-is-smarter-than-you-think-/
Thoughts? Agree or disagree with some of the things brought up here?
Both Snyder's DC efforts have atleast good thematic ideas at their core that are worth exploring, and he himself atleast seems aware of them. On paper, the stuff that drives MoS and BvS are pretty solid.
The problem is entirely in execution. Snyder finds the notion of subtlety to be completely alien, and so he bludgeons the viewer with his point. The Martha moment, at its emotional core, isn't terrible. The notion of Batman having detached Superman from any kind of humanity until forced to see himself as "the killer" of someone's loved ones, bringing his childhood trauma crashing back onto him, in theory isn't bad.
In execution? It's fucking laughable as Batman stops his crusade because "YOUR MOM'S NAME IS LIKE MY MOM'S NAME! WE SHOULD BE FRIENDS NOW!"
There are plenty of great ideas thematically in BvS. It's just pretty dogshit at exploring them. The movie is not without merit thematically. Snyder just trips over himself repeatedly in trying to get those points across while also being a fucking crazy objectivist.
Is it bad I read this with the HISHE Batman voice? Lol
I'd be lying if I said that wasn't what I was thinking too.
It's a perfectly succinct summary of how that moment played.
There were definitely some smart ideas and topics expressed in the film. I don't think anyone is ragging on that, the guys behind it totally knew the subject material and were trying to tackle it in a way that was modern and relevant to today's age. Which is totally commendable.
Unfortunately, they just did it in the completely wrong way, and they ended up making a very mean and bitter movie that had little optimism.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Snyder can't be subtle. Subtlety is lost on a brain dead populace looking for only a popcorn film. Look how many theoretically intelligent people in this forum miss these seemingly obvious themes and allegories...
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
It's sad that you don't mean this as a joke.
Ah, the everyone who doesn't like what I like is dumb argument. Classic.
I think Campea mentioned it but nobody listens to Campea.
It didn't feel that way at all in the TC, that's probably why. Superman got the shaft in the TC
"MORE BATMAN LESS TOMATOES!" - Warner execs
ok that makes sense.
Not the first to speak of similar ideas
http://www.popmatters.com/feature/b...se-gods-in-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/
There really isn't any struggle to get these themes, and many others, across in the Ultimate Cut, even with a few executional flaws. In addition, criticisms like this:
"Snyder just trips over himself repeatedly in trying to get those points across while also being a fucking crazy objectivist."
have no bearing on the film itself as there is little to back it up when you look at the whole picture. You can't just say "BvS is tainted by crazy objectivism" with literally nothing to back that statement up, while most likely said opinion is simply based off of reading an interview where Snyder said he'd like to adapt the Fountainhead, never mind that the content of the film is seemingly at odds with this statement.
The themes are there but I'll be honest and say that I haven't looked at it in this way. The allusions to 9/11 are there on the surface and the way Terrio and Snyder warped it and arrived at this story is a great feat. I think the article dwells too much on the surface though. There's other things in the movie that are ripe for analysis that the writer doesn't even try to dwell on which could have changed his opinion on how smart the film really is.
I can't really go into detail in my post but this article
http://www.popmatters.com/feature/beautiful-lies-and-false-gods-in-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/P0/
is a really good read on some of the other aspects of the movie. Great writing too.
My bad if I messed up the link. I'm
on mobile.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
You tell me. Either the film is full of obvious themes and symbolism with absolutely no regard for subtlety, and those who don't pick up on those points are uncultured swine, or...what?
Like that video review that was posted here and met with great applause, the one that didn't bother to address Superman's arc but dedicated what felt like half of its fifteen minutes to discuss the use of symbolic imagery and why its bad in this film, to come to the grand conclusion that symbolic imagery in a good movie is good, but in a bad movie its bad. Then spent the last minute musing on what the film said personally about Snyder.
or those themes and metaphors are poorly executed, undermining their effectiveness and robbing the film of the weight it was trying to achieve.
This is like when fans kept clamoring about how anyone who didn't like "Martha!" didn't understand it. Even if that were the case (it isn't) that doesn't change the fact that it's the execution people took issue with.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
If your going to "troll", don't be this boring.
BadAss2961
Member
UC is legit, finally saw it a couple nights ago. The extra 30 was in fact mostly connective tissue that broke a lot of the theatrical cut once removed. I also felt Superman's death a lot more on this rewatch with the added scenes.
It was a little overwhelming the first time, but seeing it again, i'm pretty sure BvS has the best third act of any superhero movie... Which isn't actually saying a whole lot imo, since most movies in general have their best parts in the beginning and middle. BvS is a true slow burner up until the senate explosion, then all the money shots begin to follow, one after another. Odd pacing compared to everything else.
Just about every one of these movies goes for an action packed finish, I give BvS the nod here because it has a combination of the most visually striking and best choreographed fight scenes through three separate pieces. I also like that it doesn't have the typical ending where all is well.
The theatrical is an incomplete cut of the film. It almost compares to watching a really hard R movie on a basic cable channel with commercials... It should be phased out for the film's legacy.
It was a little overwhelming the first time, but seeing it again, i'm pretty sure BvS has the best third act of any superhero movie... Which isn't actually saying a whole lot imo, since most movies in general have their best parts in the beginning and middle. BvS is a true slow burner up until the senate explosion, then all the money shots begin to follow, one after another. Odd pacing compared to everything else.
Just about every one of these movies goes for an action packed finish, I give BvS the nod here because it has a combination of the most visually striking and best choreographed fight scenes through three separate pieces. I also like that it doesn't have the typical ending where all is well.
The theatrical is an incomplete cut of the film. It almost compares to watching a really hard R movie on a basic cable channel with commercials... It should be phased out for the film's legacy.
or the supposed revelatory YouTube video about some guy going on about "scenes" and "moments," who is seemingly oblivious to the content of actual scenes in the film as he glosses over them, and how they connect and what they mean thematically to the narrative at large. (Ultimately just another meaningless YouTube video meant only for some people to repeat its buzzword criticisms ad nauseum as if they are gospel.)
This kind of blind criticism could be excusable based off the theatrical cut, but not the Ultimate, and if based off the latter...jesus
I'm surprised that's what you got out of that.
Batman came to a realization that this "false god" not only bleed, but he has family. This being who he barely knew anything about, just became more "human" to him. Supes was at risk of losing something Batman had already lost.
....and it just so happens that his mother had the same name. At that point, if I were in the same situation... I would find it hard to kill that person as well. He has family. Superman is now seen by bats as "vulnerable" in more ways than one. It is less about the name, and more about seeing the opponent as a mortal being with a relationship and situation similar to bats' own. (As much as you CAN see an alien as a human being anyway).
And guess what? Batman gets a chance to save someone named Martha. Two birds with one stone. (I'm being partially serious here).
Uh huh... Yeah I get it, as the rest of my post pretty blatantly indicates. It's also really really really dumb.
If her name was Cindy, would Superman have gotten that kryptonite spear through his face?
No, but Batman reaction would've been a bit different. Like "Cindy? What are you talking about?" instead of "WHAT DID U SAY DAT NAME!!!!!"
Yea, probably. Then enters Doomsday and Earth is fucked since Lex was wrong in his assumption that Doomsday would obey him.
Doomsday didn't activate until the counter was over and the final prods shoved into his birthsack.
More than likely he'd have been able to abort it ;P
Maybe. I don't see why he would though. He thought it would do what he says. Could have just kept it as pet of sorts in a lab. Sucks they didn't emphasize this when Doomsday tried to obliterate him. I would have loved to see Lex's reaction.
Is Luthor prolife or prochoice? Will this ever be addressed in the sequels?
I agree. Especially with the Martha scene. Another example is the Lois and the kryptonite spear where people argue that it's illogical for her to deduce kryptonite harmed Superman despite the fact you saw a damn near God weak underneath it, or the fact he had a scar from a cut he received most likely from something sharp possibly the suspicious looking spear. I am sorry but arguing how she deduced that will forever ok invite my ridicule. Also people ridiculing why Lois would throw the spear away, how she deduced Dooksday was kryptonite and why she went to retrieve the spear.
Other plot holes includes Lex's blood of my blood line which explains he thought he could control Doomsday, in the deleted scenes he literally says answers only to me.
You don't ever seem to get that Lois going back and forth with the spear is simply poor writing. It's redundant as all hell and feels contrived as a way to give her more screen time.
Throwing the spear in the water was an idiotic move no matter how you slice it. Superman was not nearby, he was not in any immediate danger, and it was the one weapon Lois knew could hurt him. Why would someone as intelligent as her hide it in the first place she can find on public land where someone like Lex could easily retrieve it? Her goal should have been to destroy it somehow. Hell, why the fuck wouldn't Batman leave it there and not take it with him? It's just dumb.