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[LordCanti]

What if they...what if they start the beta DURING gamescom....

I don't know if my body is ready.

(I realize it doesn't end in early September)


For people that have pre-ordered BF3 on Origin: Did you receive an e-mail about being in the beta, or anything? Just curious (I've received no such e-mail).

 

[Makoto]

So has game pad support with no assist been confirmed before this tweet? Hadn't heard anything definitive.

http://i.imgur.com/62Aka.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
They need to remove the hit marker as well. It has little to do with gamepad support but they should still remove it.

 

[MGHA]

What if they...what if they start the beta DURING gamescom....

I don't know if my body is ready.

(I realize it doesn't end in early September)


For people that have pre-ordered BF3 on Origin: Did you receive an e-mail about being in the beta, or anything? Just curious (I've received no such e-mail).

Yes I got an email today about having "priority" access in the beta.

edit "You'll get to check out our progress for yourself in the Open Beta coming this fall, and you will have priority access."

 

[Manager]

Have you guys gotten anything in the mail besides these priorities things, like stuff that was for non-alpha users? I signed up for the BF newsletter, I've verified my e-mail, but I don't get anything at all.

I got a code (from another person, I didn't get in myself) to get in the alpha, which I registered through Origin, but I never got any mail about the ending of it either. Obv I am hoping I'll get to play beta early thanks to that code, but I guess that isn't happening.

 

[MGHA]

Well the email isn't even from origin, its from battlefield3@ea.com

 

[Menelaus]

What if they...what if they start the beta DURING gamescom....

 

[SapientWolf]

They need to remove the hit marker as well. It has little to do with gamepad support but they should still remove it.

That's been a franchise staple since 1942. Probably not gonna happen.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

Anyone in the MOH beta have an email yet? I have MOH but haven't received any email yet... Just curious about those...

 

[LordCanti]

Yes I got an email today about having "priority" access in the beta.

edit "You'll get to check out our progress for yourself in the Open Beta coming this fall, and you will have priority access."

Hmm...I didn't get any e-mails like that. Maybe because I only pre-ordered the other day? Oh well, I'm certainly not going to pan...


PANIC!

 

[Josh7289]

They need to remove the hit marker as well. It has little to do with gamepad support but they should still remove it.

No, because it's extremely useful to know when you're actually hitting someone.

Also if you're using a tracer + Carl Gustav setup in BC2 the hit marker is almost necessary to know if your shots are actually hitting their target or not.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Removing the hit markers wouldn't make any sense. I doubt they've even considered it.

 

[Makoto]

No, because it's extremely useful to know when you're actually hitting someone.

Also if you're using a tracer + Carl Gustav setup in BC2 the hit marker is almost necessary to know if your shots are actually hitting their target or not.

The hit markers are a crutch. One reason why 3D spotting in general is a problem is because all everyone is doing at the end of the day is shooting at a spotted target and firing until the hit marker pops up. The game would change for the better if people actually had to rely on instinct and skill rather than trial and error.

The hit marker in the FPS genre has and always will be a blatant appeal to those who want the game to be easier. I disagreed with it in Battlefield 1942 but with the presence of 3D spotting in BC2 and BF3, it is honestly no longer relevant.

 

[Metalmurphy]

If the game was perfect then I would have no problems with the removal of the hit markers but lets face it, there's lag, there's hit box problems, invisible walls (this happened alot in the alpha, some walls were bigger then what was actually rendered and shots would hit a transparent texture), etc...

Hit markers helps with these problems, it wouldn't turn the game for the better without them.

 

[Makoto]

I'm not buying that reasoning. I'll just say this, I've been playing BC2 and it's laughable how much hit markers just makes the game trial and error.

Spotted enemy in some foliage that you otherwise don't see? yaominglolface.jpg Just keep firing into nothingness until the hit marker pops up. Oh, it popped up. Got that guy. Easy.

On the mounted/tank MG? Shots not hitting? Just fire around the guy until the hit marker pops up. Oh, it popped up. He's down. Easy.

I just think of how easier Rush mode would be for Attackers if Defenders had no idea if their shots were truly hitting.

 

[Cuban Legend]

If you don't want hit-markers and want the implications of not knowing if you even killed someone, stop crying about it and go play Project Reality.

 

[Stallion Free]

If you don't want hit-markers and want the implications of not knowing if you even killed someone, stop crying about it and go play Project Reality.

No destruction in that.

 

[Sethos]

Project Reality on Frostbite 2.0?

I would become a chronic masturbator.

Just throwing it out there.

 

[Makoto]

stop crying about it

But you don't understand, I'm laughing about it.

 

[Cuban Legend]

No destruction in that.

-The topic wasn't talking about hitmakers in relation to destruction, the thread's current topic is speaking about the implications of removing the hit markers themselves and the implications of gameplay variation that would stem from such change,

-The point is a very well developed and supported game mod exists out there and if any of you are PC Battlefield fans, you can freely install it an play it for free of charge because as a mod for BF2.

 

[Xux]

Jeeze, expedited shipping on Origin is $15.99 while release date shipping on Amazon is 99 cents. Damn, do I really need to play it right on October 25th?

 

[Cuban Legend]

But you don't understand, I'm laughing about it.

laughing? you are openly complaining about it, QQing, crying, etc.

Besides, If you play any modern FPS and you will note the inclusion of hit markers. Why?

It's nothing related to pad support or anything of the sort. It's a matter of perception of the feature's role in an FPS by the developers.

I'm not saying they aren't a crutch, they just aren't percieved by game developers to be a crutch, otherwise you'd have the option to remove them alongside aim assist as pad options.

 

[Uriah]

Project Reality on Frostbite 2.0?

I would become a chronic masturbator.

Just throwing it out there.

It will be awesome when fans decide to make a new version of Project Reality using Frostbite 2. Wait . . .

 

[Makoto]

-The topic wasn't talking about hitmakers in relation to destruction, the thread's current topic is speaking about the implications of removing the hit markers themselves and the implications of gameplay variation that would stem from such change,

The original point I made was that 3D spotting made hit markers less relevant. There is no 3D spotting in Project Reality. There is 3D spotting (and destruction) in BF3. I feel 3D spotting is enough assistance to the player without the hit markers. As it was said earlier, Digital Illusions won't remove it. They should though because laughing at some guy who thought he was safe in the bushes before I took him down due to trial and error hit markers is not how you want to approach Battlefield. Let me add, I did plenty of laughing in BC2 and it seems BF3 will be no different.

Edit: To add again, it's funny because it makes the game easy.

 

[bumclot]

The hit markers are a crutch. One reason why 3D spotting in general is a problem is because all everyone is doing at the end of the day is shooting at a spotted target and firing until the hit marker pops up. The game would change for the better if people actually had to rely on instinct and skill rather than trial and error.

The hit marker in the FPS genre has and always will be a blatant appeal to those who want the game to be easier. I disagreed with it in Battlefield 1942 but with the presence of 3D spotting in BC2 and BF3, it is honestly no longer relevant.

Couldn't you just play hardcore?

 

[Cuban Legend]

The original point I made was that 3D spotting made hit markers less relevant. There is no 3D spotting in Project Reality. There is 3D spotting (and destruction) in BF3. I feel 3D spotting is enough assistance to the player without the hit markers. As it was said earlier, Digital Illusions won't remove it. They should though because laughing at some guy who thought he was safe in the bushes before I took him down due to trial and error hit markers is not how you want to approach Battlefield.

3D Spotting it's as prevalent as you make it out to be.

If it bothers you and Project Reality isn't good enough an answer to your wanting a good experience without it then you don't even need to leave BF3 to enjoy a game without 3D Spotting, Play Hardcore.

 

[Menelaus]

vidal would have a point, maybe, if he wasn't talking about battlefield.

Been this way forever. Gonna stay this way forever. Don't like it, take it to a mod like PR.

 

[Makoto]

Couldn't you just play hardcore?

See, that's the irony of hardcore. There are still hit markers in hardcore. So, I'm inclined to believe the earlier post that hit markers are there for lag.

3D Spotting it's as prevalent as you make it out to be.

Oh, believe me, I make it prevalent. I spot almost everything I see.

Edit: And you know, I'd believe the whole, "It's a staple" thing, but we're talking about the developers who removed prone from BC2 because it was a balance issue.

 

[Izayoi]

Also, here's the LAV thermal I spoke of a while back, it's really helpful when looking out for those C4 bastards.:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Beefarar.../2/m3-V1GpRqIA
This video also shows why attackers tend to lose so much. Look at that tent he builds in the 2nd half of the video. It's so glorious

Holy shit, the thermal vision. That's fucking crazy.

 

[DTKT]

Holy shit, the thermal vision. That's fucking crazy.

Need black/white thermal. Looks way better.

 

[InfectedZero]

Just curious, any particular reason why there is no crosshair for the machine gunner and there is for the tank driver? I assume balance?

 

[rar]

The hit marker in the FPS genre has and always will be a blatant appeal to those who want the game to be easier. I disagreed with it in Battlefield 1942 but with the presence of 3D spotting in BC2 and BF3, it is honestly no longer relevant.

i don't think that's why hit markers exist. there are actual gameplay implications to them. it gives more information to the player, and it removes confusion, uncertainty, and guesswork from the game which can speed up gameplay alot. what skill is there in not knowing if you actually damaged a target? it just forces you to play less aggressively and more cautiously, which isn't making it any harder, it's just changing the style of play. quake, the most competitive fps ever made, has damage indicators, and the gameplay is better for it.

i can understand arguing against them based on what kind of gameplay you think battlefield should have or your view on how realistic the game should be, though

 

[Izayoi]

Just curious, any particular reason why there is no crosshair for the machine gunner and there is for the tank driver? I assume balance?

Was there not a crosshair for the main gunner in the LAV? I know the side ports didn't have a crosshair, but I was almost positive that the main gunner did.

 

[Makoto]

what skill is there in not knowing if you actually damaged a target?

It separates the guy who has familiarity over the weapon he's using from the guy who's just shooting at something waiting for some indicator to help him out. Counter-Strike (and every Valve FPS for that matter) is the go-to example of a FPS that is just fine, if not much better, without the hit marker. The skill gap is pretty much defined as those who know are familiar with recoil and bullet spread and those who aren't. Those who are familiar don't have to rely on guesswork. Battlefield however, isn't Counter-Strike. At the same time, Battlefield isn't Call of Duty and I agree with you that the presence of hit markers speeds up gameplay and that's fine when it comes to a game like Call of Duty, but Battlefield? I'm not too sure about speeding up the game but again, I feel 3D spotting is enough for players.

 

[Izayoi]

At the same time, Battlefield isn't Call of Duty and I agree with you that the presence of hit markers speeds up gameplay and that's fine when it comes to a game like Call of Duty, but Battlefield?

Hit indicators have been in the Battlefield series from the very first game, which came out almost two years before the first Call of Duty game, so...

 

[InfectedZero]

Was there not a crosshair for the main gunner in the LAV? I know the side ports didn't have a crosshair, but I was almost positive that the main gunner did.

There is for the main gun /driver, not the secondary gunner.

 

[NBtoaster]

It separates the guy who has familiarity over the weapon he's using from the guy who's just shooting at something waiting for some indicator to help him out. Counter-Strike (and every Valve FPS for that matter) is the go-to example of a FPS that is just fine, if not much better, without the hit marker.

TF2 has optional damage sounds instead (and numerical damage markers) that make the game much better. It's good to know how much you've hurt the enemy so you can plan your next move.

 

[Izayoi]

No email, despite my using the Alpha tester offer to get the pre-order and the free game.

There is for the main gun /driver, not the secondary gunner.

Huh, interesting.

 

[Makoto]

Hit indicators have been in the Battlefield series from the very first game, which came out almost two years before the first Call of Duty game, so...

There's a technicality with this. When Battlefield 1942 was first released, there were no hit markers. Hit markers didn't come to Battlefield 1942 until patch 1.2 but yes, I'll agree that they were there at the beginning of the franchise.

 

[Norml]

Trench building. Holy shit.

Since trees don't seem to disappear, I kept waiting for him to knock one down then make a hole under it and have cover

Places in BFBC2 where ground deformation works really good for me is where buildings are standing just a bit above ground,you can dig a nice hole and go under it to hide for spawning teammates,works real good on Laguna PresaAnd any spots where you have the high ground, like the nice sniper hill on Heavy Metal you dig a hole so only your head is peaking.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

There is for the main gun /driver, not the secondary gunner.

There was a crosshair for me when I was the secondary gunner... and also any of the side port gunners as well!

 

[Nostalgia~4ever]

Why do you always refer to them as Digital Illusions?

because that's their name. Digital Illusions Creative Entertainment.

 

[InfectedZero]

There was a crosshair for me when I was the secondary gunner... and also any of the side port gunners as well!

Forgot to mention that I was talking about in third person view, sorry.

 

[mr_nothin]

I've never really liked hit markers. As long as there's blood and the characters react then I know I'm hitting them. What I REALLY dont get is hit markers in SP...wtf

Never had any problems knowing whether or not I hit someone in CSS. CSS is still the model fps for me. =]

There was a crosshair for me when I was the secondary gunner... and also any of the side port gunners as well!

I remember the 2ndary gunner having the crosshairs but not the side gunners.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I like hit markers a lot. In BC2 I don't often get the sense I'm really hitting someone, even when I am, so it's nice to have a hit marker for an added sense of impact.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Got a free day for August 18th! \o/

I will fap hard!

 

[Sethos]

Finally decided to pull the trigger on my PC 'upgrade' to finally get some stability when playing, so now I'm ready. Hopefully I can at least get everything on Very High and a bit of AA at 60FPS+

 

[mr_nothin]

I like hit markers a lot. In BC2 I don't often get the sense I'm really hitting someone, even when I am, so it's nice to have a hit marker for an added sense of impact.

Netcode in BC2 is a load of shit. It's no problem in BF3 to know whether or not you're hitting someone. I also find hit markers for grenades/vehicles/c4 to be especially dumb. I think it would stop a lot of spamming. Those grenade throwing ammo sitters wouldnt have any confirmation as to whether they're actually hitting someone or wasting their time and I think that's a good thing.

Having hit markers isnt game breaking....just something I find a little annoying.

 

[Kyaw]

Hit markers are fine, i like the tactile visual feedback.

I get the point that it makes you less skilled though.

It does make things easier as you can trial and error whether you are hitting a guy miles away with your silenced SMG...

The headshot 'tink' sound is even more important but that never works properly as i have heard that sound many times and never killed the guy with a headshot.

5 days to Gamescom EA conference!

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Netcode in BC2 is a load of shit. It's no problem in BF3 to know whether or not you're hitting someone. I also find hit markers for grenades/vehicles/c4 to be especially dumb. I think it would stop a lot of spamming. Those grenade throwing ammo sitters wouldnt have any confirmation as to whether they're actually hitting someone or wasting their time and I think that's a good thing.

Having hit markers isnt game breaking....just something I find a little annoying.

To be honest, after hundreds of hours in Call of Duty, not having a hit marker just feels jarring. The only FPS I don't miss it in is Counter-Strike, and that's because the act of shooting someone in that game already has so much feedback it simply doesn't need it.

If BF3 can match CS then sure, take it out, but if not, I want hit markers!

 

[mr_nothin]

Hit markers are fine, i like the tactile visual feedback.

I get the point that it makes you less skilled though.

It does make things easier as you can trial and error whether you are hitting a guy miles away with your silenced SMG...

The headshot 'tink' sound is even more important but that never works properly as i have heard that sound many times and never killed the guy with a headshot.

5 days to Gamescom EA conference!

I group them with those chime sounds that you find in Killzone 2/3 and Uncharted 2. They're satisfying to hear but they're a little cheap to me. If you're not paying attention then you should pay for it!

Like I said though, it's just a little annoyance of mine.

To be honest, after hundreds of hours in Call of Duty, not having a hit marker just feels jarring. The only FPS I don't miss it in is Counter-Strike, and that's because the act of shooting someone in that game already has so much feedback it simply doesn't need it.

If BF3 can match CS then sure, take it out, but if not, I want hit markers!

That's exactly my point though. We need more actual gameplay feedback in games rather than the interface/hud telling you. Just a little too in-your-face for me.

I think BF3's gameplay feedback is good enough to where it doesnt need it. They should make it an option at least. I'd turn them off so fast.