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Battlestar Galactica Official Final Season Thread
- Thread starter Stoney Mason
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AndersTheSwede
Member
WhoaWhoaWhoa.
That was a criminal piece of work to cram into 45 minutes. Fucking criminal. So much shit in there that it's impossible to pull it off in the time allotted. What the fuck are they doing? Ease up on the drink Moore!
And seriously, PC/Daily Show dude? Like that doesn't jolt everyone out of the show and back to reality.
That was a criminal piece of work to cram into 45 minutes. Fucking criminal. So much shit in there that it's impossible to pull it off in the time allotted. What the fuck are they doing? Ease up on the drink Moore!
And seriously, PC/Daily Show dude? Like that doesn't jolt everyone out of the show and back to reality.
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
Was that the "I'm a PC" guy from the Apple commercials as the doctor finding the bullet? :lol
RadioHeadAche
Member
Tenacious-V said:
Yep.
I knew this episode couldn't live up to the last two episodes, but this was good for different reasons.
Future PhaZe
Member
This episode just completely flew over my head. Might have something to do with me missing the first 15 minutes but damn.
Going to have to wait for this to end up on hulu or something.
Going to have to wait for this to end up on hulu or something.
RoboPlato said:
I think it was just due to the fact it was a huge amount of information dumped on the viewer in a very short amount of time. There's not enough time for stuff to hit impact-wise before it gets buried by new revelations.
PC guy was completely extraneous, there wasn't really any reason that Cottle couldn't do the surgery himself. Maybe Hodgman just wanted a cameo on BSG.
No Baltar at all. Hopefully he shows up next episode... Did anyone see a preview for next week?
RadioHeadAche
Member
BorkBork said:
PC guy didn't feel right, and I'm sure he was there because he wanted to be. Also, based on the preview, I think Baltar will be on next week's episode.
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
Well they can't all be ridiculously action packed awesomeness. This had a lot of story progression, it was good.
AndersTheSwede
Member
BorkBork said:
It makes me even more mad to have an episode so packed with amazing material so fail in execution. Seriously, this was just ridiculous. We've just gone through one of the most heinous acts in the fleets history (which was founded on heinous acts) and they just roll the dump truck up and unload on us like this is a 45 minute format? With only a cursory "oh woe be the Quorum" bullshit? Come the fuck on. Where's the editing? Where's the script proof reading? PC guy in fucking character??! WTF is going on?
A bad episode made heinous that it included huge plot details and executed it so poorly. Pacing Moore? Are you too drunk to fucking understand it?!
I'm so damn confused. :lol :lol
So, the humans on Kobol created the cylons? Were these centurion type that evolved into what we know as skinjobs? Or did the original human tribe build human looking cylons? If they were originally built to look human, to what end? Slaves? Or perhaps as a way to preserve humanity with the end goal being a person could have a robot copy built with resurrection tech that would allow a sick or dying human to download their personality into the human looking cylon (in essence allowing humans to have a form of immortality). If that was the case I could see the cylons revolting, having a war with their creators, and then fleeing to earth. Then, once they evolved to the point of procreation they forgot the resurrection tech that the final five were able to use in the nick of time to save them from being nuked by . . . ? By the original humans from kobol?
Fuck, my brain hurts.
So, the humans on Kobol created the cylons? Were these centurion type that evolved into what we know as skinjobs? Or did the original human tribe build human looking cylons? If they were originally built to look human, to what end? Slaves? Or perhaps as a way to preserve humanity with the end goal being a person could have a robot copy built with resurrection tech that would allow a sick or dying human to download their personality into the human looking cylon (in essence allowing humans to have a form of immortality). If that was the case I could see the cylons revolting, having a war with their creators, and then fleeing to earth. Then, once they evolved to the point of procreation they forgot the resurrection tech that the final five were able to use in the nick of time to save them from being nuked by . . . ? By the original humans from kobol?
Fuck, my brain hurts.
RadioHeadAche
Member
I just remembered something when I was thinking about the possibility of Daniel being Starbuck's father. He was described as being artistic which made me remember two things: Starbuck's painting on the Demetrius and how she painted her apartment on Caprica.
I think you guys are on to something.
I think you guys are on to something.
Could Daniel be both Starbucks father and Baltar? Baltar being the result of the corrupted DNA, and Daniel pre corruption.
Not sure if it was intentional, but it seemed like the PC guy was making a PC joke with Anders when he said he should have woken (booted) up by now and he crashes. Probably reading way too far into that.
Not sure if it was intentional, but it seemed like the PC guy was making a PC joke with Anders when he said he should have woken (booted) up by now and he crashes. Probably reading way too far into that.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Incest!Saerk said:
So I think this is what I got from it
Either the 13 tribes were all human or the 13th was created by the 12. Under either option, the 13th tribe and possibly the other 12 had the ability to resurrect. After the calamity on Kobol which caused the splitting of the 13 tribes, the ability to resurrect was lost and standard procreation was the preferred method of reproduction. On Earth, the 13th tribe develops and proceeds to continue advancing until they attempt to create life and are met with their destruction. The final 5 are the researchers into the old technology and decide that they must make sure the 12 do not do the same mistake as them but they are too late. The 5 then decide to try to broker peace by teaching the cylons how to perfect life but John obviously turns against them and decides to throw the 5 into the human world so they can witness the coming holocaust
Either the 13 tribes were all human or the 13th was created by the 12. Under either option, the 13th tribe and possibly the other 12 had the ability to resurrect. After the calamity on Kobol which caused the splitting of the 13 tribes, the ability to resurrect was lost and standard procreation was the preferred method of reproduction. On Earth, the 13th tribe develops and proceeds to continue advancing until they attempt to create life and are met with their destruction. The final 5 are the researchers into the old technology and decide that they must make sure the 12 do not do the same mistake as them but they are too late. The 5 then decide to try to broker peace by teaching the cylons how to perfect life but John obviously turns against them and decides to throw the 5 into the human world so they can witness the coming holocaust
Iced_Eagle
Member
It was a decent episode, but after last week's, I knew it would be a tough act to follow.
I'm really excited for next weeks though
I'm really excited for next weeks though
Stoney Mason
Banned
Meh. It's relatively easy in a sense to do explosive epsiodes like the prior two. They come almost pre-written. The final 6 or so epsiodes are much more difficult as you have a shit load of backstory to explain.Kak.efes said:
Pudding Tame
Member
Okay after re-watching the episode...
Earth was a colony of Cylon skinjobs and they abandoned resurrection technology after they were able to procreate naturally, the final five re-invented it.
The final five were forewarned of the destruction of Earth by seeing people that weren't there, some saw a man, others a woman.
It's inferred that a centurion rebellion took place on Earth, the final five knew that the other colonies would try to create artificial life and went off to warn them not to treat them like crap or they'll rebel.
They don't have jump drives and travel at relativistic speeds to the twelve colonies, but they arrive too late. They make a deal with the centurions to end the war on the colonies in exchange for the technology to create organic Cylons, because their attempts to make anything more complicated than a Basestar hybrid had hit a dead end.
The concept of the one true god came from the centurions of the twelve colonies and not the final five.
Ellen claims that the final five had nothing to do with how the 3 (Deanna) was able to find out who they were on the temple planet.
Cavil frustrated at his makers for giving him a limited human body, killed the final five, boxed them, then resurrected them minus their memories and sent them to colonies to experience life as humans. He expected them to die during the invasion of the colonies, and when they were reborn, thank him for showing them the error of trying to make them human.
Cavil in a fit of jealousy killed off all the copies of the skinjob #7 model, named Daniel, described as being a sensitive artist.
Hope that clears it up.
Earth was a colony of Cylon skinjobs and they abandoned resurrection technology after they were able to procreate naturally, the final five re-invented it.
The final five were forewarned of the destruction of Earth by seeing people that weren't there, some saw a man, others a woman.
It's inferred that a centurion rebellion took place on Earth, the final five knew that the other colonies would try to create artificial life and went off to warn them not to treat them like crap or they'll rebel.
They don't have jump drives and travel at relativistic speeds to the twelve colonies, but they arrive too late. They make a deal with the centurions to end the war on the colonies in exchange for the technology to create organic Cylons, because their attempts to make anything more complicated than a Basestar hybrid had hit a dead end.
The concept of the one true god came from the centurions of the twelve colonies and not the final five.
Ellen claims that the final five had nothing to do with how the 3 (Deanna) was able to find out who they were on the temple planet.
Cavil frustrated at his makers for giving him a limited human body, killed the final five, boxed them, then resurrected them minus their memories and sent them to colonies to experience life as humans. He expected them to die during the invasion of the colonies, and when they were reborn, thank him for showing them the error of trying to make them human.
Cavil in a fit of jealousy killed off all the copies of the skinjob #7 model, named Daniel, described as being a sensitive artist.
Hope that clears it up.
AndersTheSwede
Member
Stoney Mason said:
But see that's my problem with this. It's not like it's a sudden surprise that only "oh my god there are 6 episodes left!" or "omg we only do 45 minute episodes!" This is the kind of stuff that you need to plan for, that has been in the works for a while. Stuff you can't claim just suddenly smacked you in the head. This is what you get paid to plan to for. I know Moore likes to fly by the seat of his pants with one hand grasping his favorite liquor and that has resulted in the greatest sci-fi since Babylon 5; but come the fuck on. This is pure shit pacing. Lurching from such a significant event as the mutiny to practically forgetting about it the next episode outside of courtesy moments, to revealing the resurrection techniques of the final five (er... 8) to revealing Hellen's place as a creater to... holy fuck.
If the revelations can't effectively fit within the time remaining (which by hell they didn't tonight), then they need to be modified and changed so they do work. Everything doesn't need to be answered. Everything shouldn't be answered. In real life everything doesn't get answered and BSG has staked itself upon pseudo-realism. That's the job of a writer. Making it work. Making it be believable.
Stoney Mason
Banned
AndersTheSwede said:
I didn't dislike the episode nearly as much as you did but I mentioned this criticism a few pages back. I agree that more episodes are needed. I never thought they would be able to effectively with good pacing tie up all the loose ends which is kinda why I wouldn't mind personally if the show finished up and still had some mysteries left. It would have been much better to tell the Ellen story in parallel with the BSG story and drop all the 5th cylon mystery stuff.
That being said with the audience need high to get closure and wrap up so many loose ends I didn't think this epsiode did a bad job doing it. I guess it's about expectations. I expected some big core dumps. And I expect even more to reach a conclusion that will be satisfying for the majority of the audience.
AndersTheSwede
Member
Stoney Mason said:
Fuck the audiences need for closure. Moore has frequently discussed his admiration for the ending of the Sopranos. How complex events never tie up neatly according to the sensibilities of the audience. I don't want things to wrap up neatly, I want the series to end with the best fucking sci-fi television ever put to (digital) film. The only closure I want is what happens to the characters, not why it happened to them.
Now of course this argument could be turned back upon me. "Fuck the audience sensibilities? Then fuck all your criticisms!" But I think basic pacing is a prerequisite for creating "the best fucking sci-fi television ever put to (digital) film".
The kind of audience who wants this kind of neat ending is likely the kind of audience who would watch this episode and have no fucking idea what's going on (I struggle and I watch the show like an obsessive geek). It serves no viewer demographic's preferences.
Stoney Mason
Banned
AndersTheSwede said:
Generally I'm one for not necessarily pleasing the audience 100% and Ron Moore certainly isn't so I don't think the audience will get that 100% pretty bow although legitmately there is a lot of loose baggage they had to move into pace to clear room to get to the ending.
The reality is that imo you probably needed at least 10 to 12 more epsiodes to finish this properly and instead we have about half that. It is what it is.
On a side note, I think Sopranos while an interesting ending is a bit too cute and artsy for my taste and I would be dissappointed if Moore took that route.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
who says storytelling must have decent pacing for the story to be told?
Stoney Mason said:
People are gonna be disappointed no matter what happens, that's what I always find entertaining. My wife mentioned that she wanted to see a 'happy' ending, where characters find peace, or meaning. I'd rather see something melodramatic or even dark, or pessimistic. It's always funny how everyone envisions the perfect ending or outcome, and it's never what they wanted. Everyone gets disappointed one way or another lol - just enjoy the show, and in the end we're better off having had this awesomeness in our television lives than never seeing it at all - faults and could-have-beens intact.
AndersTheSwede
Member
davepoobond said:
Well, I consider it an prerequisite for the story to be understood by anyone who didn't actually write it.
But your right, there are no "rules" and I am not a god who makes them. Damn I wish I was though.
Um, wow.
That was a bit much. Felt like a whole season has passed between the mutiny and the end of yesterday's episode. I just love it though. At the beginning I thought there would be heavy and noticable retconning to set up the events of the final episodes but the writers pulled it off incredibly well and they even had me thinking whether they had this planned out since the beginning of season 1.
Of course they didn't, but it's completely seamless so far. I love the new Ellen and the new/explained Cavill because they are in some ways still the same people while they aren't in other ways. Cavill was just one of many Cylons before and nobody knew why he was supposed to be their leader. The series didn't have a strong antagonist, at least we didn't know it had one up until now.
I hope the writers keep this up even if there are some dead ends ahead.
Just as an example, one thing that I'm sure will be left unexplained is Baltar's Head Six. She is different than the other head people we've seen. Six Degrees Of Separation proves that she can appear as a real person, she just chooses not to and appears only to Baltar. She also picked him up earlier this season after he received a very bad beating by Galactica's security. She picked him up and used him like a puppet. She is seen interacting with the whole CIC crew on Galactica and she even leaves a physical object behind.
I'm sure they'll explain why he sees the Head Six, but they won't explain her nature and her motives. Apparently she won't appear anymore and the scene where she says goodbye to Baltar was deleted for some reason. Too bad.
That was a bit much. Felt like a whole season has passed between the mutiny and the end of yesterday's episode. I just love it though. At the beginning I thought there would be heavy and noticable retconning to set up the events of the final episodes but the writers pulled it off incredibly well and they even had me thinking whether they had this planned out since the beginning of season 1.
Of course they didn't, but it's completely seamless so far. I love the new Ellen and the new/explained Cavill because they are in some ways still the same people while they aren't in other ways. Cavill was just one of many Cylons before and nobody knew why he was supposed to be their leader. The series didn't have a strong antagonist, at least we didn't know it had one up until now.
I hope the writers keep this up even if there are some dead ends ahead.
Just as an example, one thing that I'm sure will be left unexplained is Baltar's Head Six. She is different than the other head people we've seen. Six Degrees Of Separation proves that she can appear as a real person, she just chooses not to and appears only to Baltar. She also picked him up earlier this season after he received a very bad beating by Galactica's security. She picked him up and used him like a puppet. She is seen interacting with the whole CIC crew on Galactica and she even leaves a physical object behind.
I'm sure they'll explain why he sees the Head Six, but they won't explain her nature and her motives. Apparently she won't appear anymore and the scene where she says goodbye to Baltar was deleted for some reason. Too bad.
My prediction is that Starbuck is the result of corruption of Daniel's DNA. It fits her artistic side she had pre-military (remember her apartment). It's also quaintly perfect, given that she is a female version of a male character from the original show.
I'd be disappointed if it was Baltar. He doesn't make nearly as much sense.
I'd be disappointed if it was Baltar. He doesn't make nearly as much sense.
Would've been perfect if Daniel was her father and Dirk Benedict played him.
EDIT:
Crazy speculation ahead, spoilered just in case:
EDIT:
Crazy speculation ahead, spoilered just in case:
So Tyrol is going to install something akin to a nervous system on Galactica like the one that is used by the hybrids aboard the basestars?
I bet they'll hook up a hybrid to Galactica at some point. That's why they dedicated so much precious time to it.
I bet they'll hook up a hybrid to Galactica at some point. That's why they dedicated so much precious time to it.
AndersTheSwede
Member
Stoney Mason said:
Not going to say too much on this as it is OT. But cute would not be words I would use for it. Frankly, I think it is a work of genius. Abrupt and decisive, but there is a very real meaning there for those who paid attention. His flashback with Bobby at the lake basically tells it all.
he get's shot in the head and as the scene is from his perspective it ends when he ends
Moore doesn't seem like a writer who would shy away from this decisive abruptness, but these episodes seem to be pandering too much to the impulse of explaining things in a forced and artificial manner. BSG will always be one of the greatest sci-fi shows in history in my opinion, but that means I also hold it to a very high bar and I get geek angst when I doesn't meet that bar. :lol
Aaronology
Member
I really, really love the new Ellen. She has such a commanding presence but at the same time comes off much more compassionate and understanding than either D'Anna or Natalie, for instance.
It's such a shame there's only a few episodes left to enjoy her. *sigh
It's such a shame there's only a few episodes left to enjoy her. *sigh
Future PhaZe
Member
maharg said:
Starbuck being a Cylon would be so obvious that it's funny so I'd be let down by that. At the same time though the other chosen Cylons are pretty much the definition of out of left field bullshit so there doesn't seem to be any kind of middle ground when it comes to these guys :lol
Man I hope this episode gets streamed from sci-fi or some other website soon. That episode flew over my head at such a speed that I have no idea wtf even happened. I honestly can't even remember if I finished it :lol. Was half asleep when I watching it though but for some odd reason I'm wide awake at 5 in the morning :\
Smiling Bandit
Banned
The show has become evermore unbearable. The way they freed the Admiral had me rolling on the floor! :lol And everytime the prisoners would just turn around and simply take away the weapons of their guards! :lol You got to be shitting me! The blonde perma-pms-ing chick taking people out left and right. And the mexican guy escaping from prison? Holy shit! Just unscrew a wallplate and there you go! And of course the bitch of a school board president always finds a way to communicate with everybody.
Terrible show.
Terrible show.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Smiling Bandit said:
Agreed.
Smiling Bandit
Banned
I forgot: Really bad and above all extremly cowardly writing.
If you already know that they don't have the courage to kill one of the main characters how gullible do you have to be to get any kind of excitement out of these cheap scenarios?
If you already know that they don't have the courage to kill one of the main characters how gullible do you have to be to get any kind of excitement out of these cheap scenarios?
Aaronology
Member
Smiling Bandit said:
Jamez? :lol
Spotless Mind
Member
Not a fan of the latest. I like some of the details they revealed, but the way they force fed it through tonnes, TONNES of exposition was really poorly executed. I was hoping the delivery would be a bit more subtle. I'm still confused by some aspects, because of the pure information overload.
The best parts were Admiral Adama and Tyroll investigating Galactica's structural weaknesses, and that nice moment of Adama noticing the huge crack in his quarters. The Roslin/Lee scene was great too.
It was decent overall, but really felt like a bridging ep to get all the exposition out of the way, so they can finally start paying things off in a dramatic fashion. I just wish the information had been delivered a bit more sparingly and in a more interesting way.
The best parts were Admiral Adama and Tyroll investigating Galactica's structural weaknesses, and that nice moment of Adama noticing the huge crack in his quarters. The Roslin/Lee scene was great too.
It was decent overall, but really felt like a bridging ep to get all the exposition out of the way, so they can finally start paying things off in a dramatic fashion. I just wish the information had been delivered a bit more sparingly and in a more interesting way.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Ghost said:
I thought the "corrupted genetic material" line was a dead giveaway. Starbuck is Daniel. Let's call her "Denise".
;D
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Man, I don't follow all that mess. I have no idea. That's the one thing that stood out to me in that conversation. Al's speech about the limits of the human form, by the way, holy shit. That was spectacular.
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