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Bayonetta 2 |OT| The time has come, and so have Wii!

Mohonky

Member
Jan 19, 2007
11,859
1,640
1,585
Took me awhile to get into Bayonetta as always (have a love hate affair with it, it has that typical you'll suck ass for the majority of the game till you suss it out thing happening) but eventually made my way through Bayonetta and by the end was reasonably comfortable with it, I can always get Platinum combo's but I always end up sucking up too mucn damage and finish with stone rewards. Hmmm.

Anyway started on Bayo 2 and pretty much played it relentlessly till I finished it. What an improvement over the first. Loved it. It probably helped that I now knew or atleast had a better understanding of how the game worked and while it was definitely easier on the whole I still had a few enemies I never got the timing of attacks right for and caused me problems (not as bad as those assholes Grace and Glory though).

This was definitely the best game released last year for me, everything about it was really good and I appreciated how mucn colour was in the game after playing the original which was all murky browns and reds, the blue greens and purples really made the visuals shine in this one. I also massively liked the fact the channels levels werent hidden in some super obscure area that only reappears if you backtrack right through an area. That shit made no sense to do in the first and made missing shit way to easy. In fact hidden items in the first one felt like a chore so I missed a lot of enemy encounters and items where in the sedond they were carefully hidden but in logical areas as well, so I ended up getting far more encounters, items and challenge sections done.

Everything about the game was an improvement really. I actually used alternate weapons (never liked the alternates in the first), actually wanted to search around the game environment and look for extras and just all round enjoyed the combat more. First time I honestly felt like I was relaxing and enjoying Bayonetta rather than fighting with loving it and hating it all at the same time.

Still cant parry (use that Malhalla or whatever accessory though, beats me how you get the timing right for that with all the flashy shit happening on screen)
 

Celegus

Member
Jun 29, 2012
9,846
0
0
Pittsburgh PA
Still cant parry (use that Malhalla or whatever accessory though, beats me how you get the timing right for that with all the flashy shit happening on screen)

Maybe I'm just used to it from other games like W101, but that thing is a lifesaver on oo climax. Probably my most useful accessory, as a great backup if you dodge too early.
 

Curufinwe

Member
May 20, 2009
31,241
2
725
I forget to use it most of the time, but I switched to the Link costume so I get block for free and can use two other accessories: the one that gives you two magic orbs for free, and the one that turns on witch time when you get hit.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Aug 8, 2010
26,421
0
0
Do we have sales numbers for Bayonetta 2? Hopefully we'll see a 3rd on the next Nintendo console.

I think it sold over 100k by the end of November in the US, something similair in Japan as well. Maybe if we count digital editions and December sales the game reached 300+k worldwide by now.
 

walnuts

Member
Nov 26, 2013
528
0
0
I finished yesterday Bayonetta 2 for the first time in 2nd Climax. Now I can't wait to play as Jeanne. I found it easier than the first one, but I don't know if the game is easier, or if I'm starting to dominate the gameplay slowly.

Many people criticize the story but I liked it, and Balder is such a badass. It would be great if he was unlockable too. Is he?

Hope there's a Bayonetta 3, and if she could summon angles too, in the end, she's half Umbra half Lumen.

I feel sorry for those who enjoyed the first one, but don't want to play the second because they are haters. They are missing a great game!
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Mar 10, 2005
19,206
0
1,640
The hammer is amazing with the
chain chomp
. The basic strategy is to charge up your first hit and then do a long combo, with dodge offset if necessary. As long as you're holding P, you can dodge and still keep your charge, just like the other chargeable weapons. Short charges result in a handle thrust, longer charges give you a full hit and a few seconds of charged status where your hammer attacks have boosted damage and impact. A fully charged blow can stagger the largest enemies.

This combo destroys all: [hold P, release] P P [hold P, release] K. That's the hidden PPPPK combo with the first and last P charged to max. Absolutely devastating. (Note that you can't get the K ender if you don't charge the fourth P).

BTW, the hammer earns ridiculous combo points. If you use lots of charge attacks, you can dominate Tag Climax even against players with much faster weapons. So much fun.

Thanks. Played around with the hammer a bit and I didn't know it could 'store' energy for a few seconds. The most basic angels go down in just 3 hits with this. Still is a bit too slow for my tastes though. I watched a 'secret weapons function' vid on yt and didn't know that the <- -> P move automatically starts witch time for some weapons. Will try that out.

I'm having more fun with the different weapon sets than the original. Right now I'm partial to the swords & scythe. Scythe just hits all the right notes for me: large AOE, high damage, but not too slow either. Love the Rakshasa as well.

Finished 3rd Climax in one sitting yesterday. If I want the game to punish me, then it'll have to be in infinite climax.
 

Celegus

Member
Jun 29, 2012
9,846
0
0
Pittsburgh PA
I finished yesterday Bayonetta 2 for the first time in 2nd Climax. Now I can't wait to play as Jeanne. I found it easier than the first one, but I don't know if the game is easier, or if I'm starting to dominate the gameplay slowly.

Many people criticize the story but I liked it, and Balder is such a badass. It would be great if he was unlockable too. Is he?

Hope there's a Bayonetta 3, and if she could summon angles too, in the end, she's half Umbra half Lumen.

I feel sorry for those who enjoyed the first one, but don't want to play the second because they are haters. They are missing a great game!

I found it pretty easy as well, only died a couple times through 3rd Climax my first time through. I cleaned up any missions I had less than a Gold on before I went to oo mode, and even just after one playthrough, found every mission to be a complete cakewalk. I haven't looked into the later unlockables yet, but I'm fairly certain I played with someone in Tag Climax using Balder. Very excited to get him if that is the case!
 
Jun 6, 2013
9,779
1
0
California
So I've been wanting to pick this game up but I've been trying to find a sale.

I know Nintendo titles are notorious for never dropping in price but what are the odds that Bayo 2 actually hits $40ish sometime soon?
 

Regiruler

Member
Jun 4, 2013
28,976
9
620
I finished yesterday Bayonetta 2 for the first time in 2nd Climax. Now I can't wait to play as Jeanne. I found it easier than the first one, but I don't know if the game is easier, or if I'm starting to dominate the gameplay slowly.

Many people criticize the story but I liked it, and Balder is such a badass. It would be great if he was unlockable too. Is he?

Hope there's a Bayonetta 3, and if she could summon angles too, in the end, she's half Umbra half Lumen.

I feel sorry for those who enjoyed the first one, but don't want to play the second because they are haters. They are missing a great game!

Nah. They can't make a lumen sage that isn't
Balder
after all. It's the law of the lumen.
 

Ninja Dom

Member
Mar 15, 2005
7,920
0
1,470
London
Hi guys.

Alright, so I started my first Bayonetta 2 play through last night. I got both Bayonetta 1 & 2 around launch day. I started with Bayonetta 1. Played through the game twice on Normal and again through on Hard. I loved it. I had a great time.

Then I thought I'd leave it awhile before I started on Bayonetta 2, so I went off and completed a 100% play through of Super Mario 3D World. I did that (including Champion Road) and now I've started my Bayonetta 2 play through.

I've got to say, so far, I'm not feeling it as much as the original. I dunno, but I'm not having as much fun with it so far as I thought I would or compared to Bayonetta 1. I'm about to play Chapter 6, and I'm playing it on 2nd Climax. What I'm trying to do is save and buy the same Techniques and Accessories that I used in Bayonetta 1 and it's taking awhile. I'm definitely gonna soldier on but did you guys feel the same when you first started??

I can see that graphically the game is a big improvement on the original. Much brighter colours, more use of primary colours. It's a really good looking game.
 

Ninja Dom

Member
Mar 15, 2005
7,920
0
1,470
London
So I've been wanting to pick this game up but I've been trying to find a sale.

I know Nintendo titles are notorious for never dropping in price but what are the odds that Bayo 2 actually hits $40ish sometime soon?

Are you talking physical retail sale or eShop? If it's eShop then there is the discount available providing you buy Bayonetta 1 at full price. And Nintendo games DO go on sale in the eShop but not very often at all. In the UK eShop Super Mario 3D World dropped from £49.99 to £34.99 for a week or two, but that is the only reduction on that game I've seen since it's release in December 2013.
 

Celegus

Member
Jun 29, 2012
9,846
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0
Pittsburgh PA
Wow, I'm not sure I have what it takes for the
Rodin
fight. Switched over to Tag Climax and have 52/53 verse cards, just missing the only one I really wanted (
Balder
).
 

Nemmy

Member
Jan 13, 2014
1,108
0
0
I've got to say, so far, I'm not feeling it as much as the original. I dunno, but I'm not having as much fun with it so far as I thought I would or compared to Bayonetta 1. I'm about to play Chapter 6, and I'm playing it on 2nd Climax. What I'm trying to do is save and buy the same Techniques and Accessories that I used in Bayonetta 1 and it's taking awhile. I'm definitely gonna soldier on but did you guys feel the same when you first started??

I did, and I after 2 complete playthroughs (2nd and 3rd climax, I'm LTTP like you) still think that Vigrid chapters in Bayo 1 are way, way better than Noatun chapters in Bayo 2. I think there's something off with the pacing, or maybe level design is less interesting in 2 - I honestly don't know why but I feel the same as you do. I definitely don't like the increased HP enemies have, most likely to accomodate for Umbran Climax - Bayo feels less powerful now, and Wicked Weaves lost some of their weight. Also fuck underwater levels.
The good news is that I started to enjoy the sequel way more around halfway through, when you
lose the assbag companion
and shit starts to get epic.

It's still kinda hard going back to Bayo 1 after 2. You really start to appreciate the numerous improvements that are suddenly missing. I'd say I generally enjoy playing 1 more than 2, but 1 has some absolutely ridiculous, rage-inducing moments that 2 is pretty much free of.
But this is from the perspective of 200 hrs in 1 and 20 hrs in 2. So I might as well change my mind as time goes by.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Mar 6, 2013
21,861
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715
Hi guys.

Alright, so I started my first Bayonetta 2 play through last night. I got both Bayonetta 1 & 2 around launch day. I started with Bayonetta 1. Played through the game twice on Normal and again through on Hard. I loved it. I had a great time.

Then I thought I'd leave it awhile before I started on Bayonetta 2, so I went off and completed a 100% play through of Super Mario 3D World. I did that (including Champion Road) and now I've started my Bayonetta 2 play through.

I've got to say, so far, I'm not feeling it as much as the original. I dunno, but I'm not having as much fun with it so far as I thought I would or compared to Bayonetta 1. I'm about to play Chapter 6, and I'm playing it on 2nd Climax. What I'm trying to do is save and buy the same Techniques and Accessories that I used in Bayonetta 1 and it's taking awhile. I'm definitely gonna soldier on but did you guys feel the same when you first started??

I can see that graphically the game is a big improvement on the original. Much brighter colours, more use of primary colours. It's a really good looking game.

Yeah, the pacing is all over the place on Bayonetta 2, search for all weapons available,

And, you will enjoy it more if you play on 3rd Climax, its the equivalent of Bayonetta 1 normal.
 

Ninja Dom

Member
Mar 15, 2005
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London
Is there no penalty at the end of the chapters for using Items? There was in Bayonetta 1.

And in the Muspelheim when it says defeat all enemies using a single combo, what does that mean?
 
Jun 25, 2006
7,508
1
0
It confounds me that Bayonetta 2 is deemed to have pacing issues, not the first one with its multitude of overly long cutscenes and numerous amateuristic gimmicks.

I've got to say, so far, I'm not feeling it as much as the original. I dunno, but I'm not having as much fun with it so far as I thought I would or compared to Bayonetta 1. I'm about to play Chapter 6, and I'm playing it on 2nd Climax. What I'm trying to do is save and buy the same Techniques and Accessories that I used in Bayonetta 1 and it's taking awhile. I'm definitely gonna soldier on but did you guys feel the same when you first started?
Starting on 2nd Climax after having finished Bayonetta 1 on Normal as well as Hard is a misstep; practically a walk in the park compared to what you're used to. 3rd Climax would be more up your alley as well as Infinite Climax by the time you unlock it, since the latter doesn't come with 1's harsh handicaps. Accessories have always been pricey in both games, so just buy everything else you can get that'll give Bayonetta herself more options. Also be sure to try the various new weapons since they're generally much better in execution than the majority of the B1 counterparts, often with good utility.

Is there no penalty at the end of the chapters for using Items? There was in Bayonetta 1.

And in the Muspelheim when it says defeat all enemies using a single combo, what does that mean?
No penalty.

And killing them without the combo counter on the right side of the screen expiring.
 

Ninja Dom

Member
Mar 15, 2005
7,920
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1,470
London
It confounds me that Bayonetta 2 is deemed to have pacing issues, not the first one with its multitude of overly long cutscenes and numerous amateuristic gimmicks.

Starting on 2nd Climax after having finished Bayonetta 1 on Normal as well as Hard is a misstep; practically a walk in the park compared to what you're used to. 3rd Climax would be more up your alley as well as Infinite Climax by the time you unlock it, since the latter doesn't come with 1's harsh handicaps. Accessories have always been pricey in both games, so just buy everything else you can get that'll give Bayonetta herself more options. Also be sure to try the various new weapons since they're generally much better in execution than the majority of the B1 counterparts, often with good utility.

No penalty.

And killing them without the combo counter on the right side of the screen expiring.

Okay, got it.
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 22, 2009
87,151
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Australia
It confounds me that Bayonetta 2 is deemed to have pacing issues, not the first one with its multitude of overly long cutscenes and numerous amateuristic gimmicks.

There's a worse sense of progression basically is how it feels like.

Honestly though I don't really remember because I skip the cutscenes every time after the first time.

But I feel like the framing element of the Cardinal Virtues or whatever they were really helps Bayo 1's structure feel better than it is; Fire-Breathing Iustia is after the lava caves, Wind-Bearer Temperentia is in the eye of a bunch of levels suspended in the air in a raging storm, Sapentia is frolicking around in the ocean, etc.
 

Regiruler

Member
Jun 4, 2013
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There's a worse sense of progression basically is how it feels like.

Honestly though I don't really remember because I skip the cutscenes every time after the first time.

But I feel like the framing element of the Cardinal Virtues or whatever they were really helps Bayo 1's structure feel better than it is; Fire-Breathing Iustia is after the lava caves, Wind-Bearer Temperentia is in the eye of a bunch of levels suspended in the air in a raging storm, Sapentia is frolicking around in the ocean, etc.

Sapentia didn't get jack-squat in terms of buildup. It just had one level between Iustica and itself, where the other three had at least 3 levels prior (with Fortitudo getting 4 if you don't count the prologue and whatnot).
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 22, 2009
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That's true, but you spend the entire time surfboarding and running from water so it at least fits together thematically

after that you fight jeanne while travelling around on missiles. that's fun!
 

Nemmy

Member
Jan 13, 2014
1,108
0
0
It confounds me that Bayonetta 2 is deemed to have pacing issues, not the first one with its multitude of overly long cutscenes and numerous amateuristic gimmicks.

Bayonetta 2 definitely improves the original by removing the QTEs, environmental instakills and the such. With that said, the first levels are a snoozefest. Running around the underwater areas is boring and slow (the panther's available from the start, why ruin that?!), the "slow walking while characters talk" segments are so out-of-place it's actually unbelievable they put them in, and the constant "need to get to the mountain" crap while strolling in circles around Noatun like it's a sunday afternoon walk doesn't help. Basically the game manages to lose ALL sense of urgency the prologue built up within the first couple levels. Notice Bayo 1 had zero sense of urgency at the start so the slow paced first levels had their place; the sequel tries to emulate that, but forgets it wanted us to hurry and save Jeanne five minutes earlier.

Not to mention I dread the mech section as much if not more than the shmup in Bayo 1, so I'd say it's a draw as far as amateuristic gimmicks are concerned.
 

dankir

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Sep 21, 2006
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Bayonetta 2 definitely improves the original by removing the QTEs, environmental instakills and the such. With that said, the first levels are a snoozefest. Running around the underwater areas is boring and slow (the panther's available from the start, why ruin that?!), the "slow walking while characters talk" segments are so out-of-place it's actually unbelievable they put them in, and the constant "need to get to the mountain" crap while strolling in circles around Noatun like it's a sunday afternoon walk doesn't help. Basically the game manages to lose ALL sense of urgency the prologue built up within the first couple levels. Notice Bayo 1 had zero sense of urgency at the start so the slow paced first levels had their place; the sequel tries to emulate that, but forgets it wanted us to hurry and save Jeanne five minutes earlier.

Not to mention I dread the mech section as much if not more than the shmup in Bayo 1, so I'd say it's a draw as far as amateuristic gimmicks are concerned.


The mech section was great, you're super overpowered and blast through all the enemies.
 

Zocano

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Aug 25, 2012
6,819
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515
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I get why people say Bayonetta 2 is a vast improvement over 1 in many ways.

And on many accounts, it is. Less of the not-actual-Bayonetta-combat sections and QTEs.

Buuuuut something always felt off to me and the previous posts made me want to post in here. I didn't put the game high on my GOTY list because it, overall, didn't resonate as well as 1 did. Mostly cause it's a sequel, but secondly because a lot of encounters and the story just fell super flat for me.

The story stuff has been talked over several times in this thread so I won't really go into it again.

But my main complaint was just how the enemies didn't feel as... interesting? There's something off about a lot of the enemies in Bayonetta 2. I think it's mostly that they just felt like "copies" of the original Bayonetta 1 gallery. And the ones that looked different (the snake thing whose name I forget) don't actually feel like they fight differently.

Nothing tops or out-does the intensity of Grace + Glory. Though they never really needed to, it is disappointing that I didn't have that sort of "git gud" enemy in Bayonetta 2. I played through the game on 3rd Climax the first time through and just sort of... breezed through it? I mean I didn't platinum it without paying attention but I never hit a wall with enemies like I did with the Joy trio or Gracious and Glorious. Never felt like "oh man, I am doing really shit against these enemies, I need to learn how to beat them".

Something just felt off, I guess.

Also I hate how there's no "hard" difficulty in Bayonetta 2. My favorite difficulty in character action games is usually the one right after the "normal" where they switch up enemy layouts. Bayonetta 2 kinda doesn't have that. I mean there's infinite climax but that has its own gimmicky no-witch-time thing on it. I wanted that hard mode from Bayonetta 1 that keeps the witch time but still has the insane enemies and quadruple grace and glory. Bayonetta 2 feels like it was missing a difficulty in between 3rd climax and infinite climax. I was really disappointed to find out there wasn't one when I originally played it, too.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Mar 6, 2013
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I get why people say Bayonetta 2 is a vast improvement over 1 in many ways.

And on many accounts, it is. Less of the not-actual-Bayonetta-combat sections and QTEs.

Buuuuut something always felt off to me and the previous posts made me want to post in here. I didn't put the game high on my GOTY list because it, overall, didn't resonate as well as 1 did. Mostly cause it's a sequel, but secondly because a lot of encounters and the story just fell super flat for me.

The story stuff has been talked over several times in this thread so I won't really go into it again.

But my main complaint was just how the enemies didn't feel as... interesting? There's something off about a lot of the enemies in Bayonetta 2. I think it's mostly that they just felt like "copies" of the original Bayonetta 1 gallery. And the ones that looked different (the snake thing whose name I forget) don't actually feel like they fight differently.

Nothing tops or out-does the intensity of Grace + Glory. Though they never really needed to, it is disappointing that I didn't have that sort of "git gud" enemy in Bayonetta 2. I played through the game on 3rd Climax the first time through and just sort of... breezed through it? I mean I didn't platinum it without paying attention but I never hit a wall with enemies like I did with the Joy trio or Gracious and Glorious. Never felt like "oh man, I am doing really shit against these enemies, I need to learn how to beat them".

Something just felt off, I guess.

Also I hate how there's no "hard" difficulty in Bayonetta 2. My favorite difficulty in character action games is usually the one right after the "normal" where they switch up enemy layouts. Bayonetta 2 kinda doesn't have that. I mean there's infinite climax but that has its own gimmicky no-witch-time thing on it. I wanted that hard mode from Bayonetta 1 that keeps the witch time but still has the insane enemies and quadruple grace and glory. Bayonetta 2 feels like it was missing a difficulty in between 3rd climax and infinite climax. I was really disappointed to find out there wasn't one when I originally played it, too.

?
Infinite Climax has different enemy configurations and Witch time.

Other than that, i agree, the game lacked another difficulty level, 3rd Climax becomes too easy if you grab too many witch hearts, and they are easy to find.
Enemies, situations are also less memorable, i think its in part because Kamiya was not there, Hashimote succeded in delivering more Bayonetta, and even improved the combat system, but in the end i felt Bayonetta 2 is no more than a mediocre sequel that fails to bring something truly new, and its too close to the original to stand on its own, removing some things, keeping others the same, and changing others for better or worse.

Thats my main issue with the game, I know Bayonetta can be much better than this.
 

Nemmy

Member
Jan 13, 2014
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0
The mech section was great, you're super overpowered and blast through all the enemies.

And..? I could get the same experience playing on Very Easy, except with a bigger moveset and a more agile character at my disposal.
It was kinda fun for the first time but after 5 minutes I really wanted to just get it over with. I can see myself skipping the whole chapter on future playthroughs, it has zero replay value as far as I'm concerned.
 
Jun 25, 2006
7,508
1
0
Bayonetta 2 definitely improves the original by removing the QTEs, environmental instakills and the such. With that said, the first levels are a snoozefest. Running around the underwater areas is boring and slow (the panther's available from the start, why ruin that?!), the "slow walking while characters talk" segments are so out-of-place it's actually unbelievable they put them in, and the constant "need to get to the mountain" crap while strolling in circles around Noatun like it's a sunday afternoon walk doesn't help. Basically the game manages to lose ALL sense of urgency the prologue built up within the first couple levels. Notice Bayo 1 had zero sense of urgency at the start so the slow paced first levels had their place; the sequel tries to emulate that, but forgets it wanted us to hurry and save Jeanne five minutes earlier.

Not to mention I dread the mech section as much if not more than the shmup in Bayo 1, so I'd say it's a draw as far as amateuristic gimmicks are concerned.
Agreed on the forced slow walking sections; they don't have a place in high-octane action games, but I'm guessing Platinum largely did it to mask loading. Not that that justification makes 'em more acceptable, since it'll always feel jarring and you still have to listen to that little shit Loki. Can't say I view the underwater sections as anything more than a non-issue though: they're usually brief, your movement is faster than how it was in B1 and all of your combative abilities are retained, which is about as unobtrusive as it gets. And we're just going to have to disagree about our views about pacing in both games: B1 was a mess in general to me (including the lore) regardless of 2's own shortcomings (which by the end of it I still found more consistent), but I already went into these games having convinced myself that I'd never find the story-related motivations important.

But I cannot comprehend how the mech section can be put in the same category as that other sorry gimmick. B1's tacked-on shmup section is just one stretch of very basic gameplay (which mechanically had nothing to do with the core game) extended over 10+ minutes with little in the way of actual variation. Even on the very first playthrough it immediately felt like a drag. The mech on the other hand at the very least feels like it's still part of the same gameplay design, albeit in a simplified fashion and the developers mixed things up sufficiently with enough spectacle and enemy types thrown at you without even being much longer (comparatively speaking) in duration. I wouldn't disagree that ultimately it's one of B2's lower points on repeat playthroughs, but the first time around it never even crossed my mind unlike the aforementioned shmup abomination and other such glorified distractions in B1. There's also no denying these were higher in number in the previous title, all of which sloppily executed at that.
 

Regiruler

Member
Jun 4, 2013
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620
And..? I could get the same experience playing on Very Easy, except with a bigger moveset and a more agile character at my disposal.
It was kinda fun for the first time but after 5 minutes I really wanted to just get it over with. I can see myself skipping the whole chapter on future playthroughs, it has zero replay value as far as I'm concerned.

Except it has both
Iustitia
and
Sapientia
as cool bosses and the music in the entire chapter is some of the best in the game.
 

popyea

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Aug 24, 2012
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?
Infinite Climax has different enemy configurations and Witch time.

Other than that, i agree, the game lacked another difficulty level, 3rd Climax becomes too easy if you grab too many witch hearts, and they are easy to find.
Enemies, situations are also less memorable, i think its in part because Kamiya was not there, Hashimote succeded in delivering more Bayonetta, and even improved the combat system, but in the end i felt Bayonetta 2 is no more than a mediocre sequel that fails to bring something truly new, and its too close to the original to stand on its own, removing some things, keeping others the same, and changing others for better or worse.

Thats my main issue with the game, I know Bayonetta can be much better than this.

I can't agree with that. They improved stuff like attack animations and weapon moveset/variety, but the combat system itself got hurt badly. I wish I knew more about what went down, with explanations for why they changed the system so much. It may have all been for the sake of standing out from the first, but then all the residual elements just bog it down and stop it from working well anyway.
 

Jintor

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Oct 22, 2009
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It feels like they implemented the Infinite Climax system and worked backwards to make it special, instead of trying to add something to the original combat system and building up from there.
 

popyea

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It feels like they implemented the Infinite Climax system and worked backwards to make it special, instead of trying to add something to the original combat system and building up from there.

I think it was more like they wanted to add umbran climax (assuming that's what you meant to say) and had to make changes to the overall design in order to accommodate it. Though I can see some changes that are obviously because of UC, others I'm not really sure why they changed. Like how getting lots of hits extended WT, or how Bat Within used to work.
 

Nemmy

Member
Jan 13, 2014
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Agreed on the forced slow walking sections; they don't have a place in high-octane action games, but I'm guessing Platinum largely did it to mask loading. Not that that justification makes 'em more acceptable, since it'll always feel jarring and you still have to listen to that little shit Loki.

The weird thing is they can be skipped by just mashing A (skips one dialogue line at a time, like in RPGs), so that at least speeds them up - I'm not sure if it's loading they're masking as they're much less frequent than in Vanquish or MGR, where their purpose was clear.

But I cannot comprehend how the mech section can be put in the same category as that other sorry gimmick. B1's tacked-on shmup section is just one stretch of very basic gameplay (which mechanically had nothing to do with the core game) extended over 10+ minutes with little in the way of actual variation. Even on the very first playthrough it immediately felt like a drag. The mech on the other hand at the very least feels like it's still part of the same gameplay design, albeit in a simplified fashion and the developers mixed things up sufficiently with enough spectacle and enemy types thrown at you without even being much longer (comparatively speaking) in duration. I wouldn't disagree that ultimately it's one of B2's lower points on repeat playthroughs, but the first time around it never even crossed my mind unlike the aforementioned shmup abomination and other such glorified distractions in B1. There's also no denying these were higher in number in the previous title, all of which sloppily executed at that.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here - I basically agree with everything you said, except I can't help the fact the mech section in Bayo 2 bored me even the first time around, much like the shmup parts in both games. Simplified is the key word here, I can't help but feel "why am I playing this instead of the mechanically superior main game?".
Though I guess it's a good thing it's a separate chapter at least and not a verse leading to a boss fight, like the shmup sections.
 

Weltall Zero

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I also agree that it lacked a "hard" mode and it was something it needed. It's usually my favorite difficulty as well: being flung straight from 3rd to Infinite Climax without warm-up was not great. The one thing I love about Hard is that it's perfect for picking up the game again a few months or years later, when you don't have the game committed to muscle memory.

Strangely, with TW101 I felt the opposite, in that 101 Hard felt like "classic" hard, with no actual "very hard" modes. In part it's probably how generous the game is with damage avoiding (dodge + ukemi), how many alternate strategies most enemies have, and how each mission's boss tends to be more spectacular and varied and less of a difficulty spike/ability gate. Was it like this for you guys too?
 

Nemmy

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I also agree that it lacked a "hard" mode and it was something it needed. It's usually my favorite difficulty as well: being flung straight from 3rd to Infinite Climax without warm-up was not great. The one thing I love about Hard is that it's perfect for picking up the game again a few months or years later, when you don't have the game committed to muscle memory.

This exactly. I always thought that the difficulty settings in DMC1 and Bayonetta 1 were perfect: Normal gives you a good difficulty curve and gradually introduces harder enemies, Hard increases damage you take forcing you to git gud and also remixes the enemies because you're familiar with them now, and then there's the DMD/NSIC that takes Hard enemy settings and cranks the difficulty way up for those most dedicated and/or challenge-hungry.

This is also why I'm always sceptical when people complain about unlockable difficulties - doing the above is pretty much impossible if all difficulties are available from the start (plus a fresh game on Hard is very difficult in the above scenario), which results in a "useless" difficulty a'la 2nd Climax or Normal in MGR/Vanquish. And then the gap is too big between the toned-down Hard and whatever is above it.

I can't comment on W101 yet, only just began playing it :)
 

Weltall Zero

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This is also why I'm always sceptical when people complain about unlockable difficulties - doing the above is pretty much impossible if all difficulties are available from the start (plus a fresh game on Hard is very difficult in the above scenario)

You have a point, and that might be why I never felt too strongly against unlockable difficulties when using the golden ratio you mentioned. It's only when there's redundant difficulties (or, let's not beat around the bush, when Normal has been adjusted to the current "press A to win" level of challenge in most games) that it becomes a chore to play through them.

Funnily, I felt that sense of "this is pointless" with Third Climax. I made the mistake of making my first playthrough on Second, so the Third Climax one felt identical. I even took less time to finish and scored better all around, whereas I usually take quite longer to finish on Hard. It's a testament to how unadulterated Bayo2 is that the feeling was pretty minor, simply because the game is so good. I also felt it with TW101, which while not having any two difficulties feel almost identical like Bayo2, had all of them (well, the ones I played at least, Normal/Hard/101 Hard) feel much more compressed together, for the reasons I mentioned.
 

Mohonky

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Whats is the case with Infinite Climax.

Are the majority of people able to complete this mode and get pure platinums?

I finally got passed my 'I love the game but it shits me at the same time' moment eith the series after beating the first one on normal and jumping straight into thr second on normal. In Bayo 2 I average Gold on every chapter, moved to Infinite Climax and I am basically getting a stone run. Are most people able to Platinum Infinite Climax? I have seen plenty of people manage it on youtube, seems like everyone can do it except me :/ are people using auto witch time or other beneficial bracelets for these runs or something? I only have the parry move bracelet and another for extra Halos from torture attacks, I dont usually like the ones that give auto defenses etc as I feel like its going to affect how good I am with the game and get complacent.

Was wondering if being able to finish Infinite Climax and get Platinums is the norm or something?


Also tried Rosa, she is def more powerful but shit I was being killed in 1 or 2 fits from most enemies. Not helpful either when one thing I notice about infinite climax is you get a lot more enemies and many are either attacking at the same time or consecutively, but with so many enemies getting hit from off screen or being crowded and not being able to see jack shit is really annoying. Was watching youtube vids and dont recall seeing anyone bet nearly as swamped :/
 

fatgamecat

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Oct 24, 2012
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Easy ways to get pure plat in Bayo 2:

Use items, they don't affect your rank. You can item spam through most of the game.
Use umbran climax often, it's an iWin button most of the time.
Use torture attacks to skip enemies once your combo score is high enough.
Farm magic outside of verses to refill for more UCs and TAs.
Use bracelet of time against humanoid bosses like Lumen.
Use pulley's butterfly to avoid damage even if you get hit.
Rosa is generally considered easier to use because she does much more damage and you don't want to get hit anyway.

Or if you want to make it harder on yourself, don't do any of those things and equip the Gaze of Despair instead.

If you're having trouble seeing things, adjust the camera zoom in the options. You can also turn off the music to listen for off-screen cues better.
 

Mohonky

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Theres a camera zoom option :| had no idea.

Just chucked Bayo 1 in for a quick go on Hard. Its miles harder than 3rd Climax lol. Its as hard if not harder than Infinite on Bayo 2
 

HawthorneKitty

Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Feb 22, 2012
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So....



Only $150 in Japan!