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Bayonetta 2 - WiiU (Director: Yusuke Hashimoto, Pub: Nintendo, Supervision:Kamiya)

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Palette Swap

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May 13, 2009
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That place there.
Don't you remember the P-100 announcement at E3? For the first couple pages people were claiming that the game was shovelware crap that General Nintendochet had forced an unwilling Kamiya to create in a torture chamber.
Okay, that's the first post in the thread which had me laughing. Thanks!

The HD tools and process have already been established compared to the beginning of the gen when everyone was in the same boat, learning how to use HD consoles. It's basically a modification of whats already existing instead of upgrading. Going towards stronger hardware requires new tools and processes which can be expensive.
I understand there's an improved efficiency as time passes and tools/processes/engines are recouped (thanks to the formerly risky investments) but I was under the impression this is only part of the issue, namely things like design, or the growing complexity of gaming worlds lead to rising costs no matter how efficient your tools have become. Typically, the infamous "HD towns in FF" comment seemed to be more about that than just tool issues.
 

Opiate

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Even now that's the case though. Rockstar can spend $200M to build and market a GTA, because although that means having to sell eight million copies to break even, they know they will.

Games like MGS won't dramatically increase in budget, because they can't, which is what you said I know.
No. They won't make a PS3-production-level game on the PS4, any more than they made PS2-production-level games on the PS3, or PS1-production-level games on the PS2.

It doesn't happen; that particular audience expects games to take advantage of the system's horse power, and outside small niches, if games do not do this, they are rejected. If Metal Gear Solid cannot "keep up with the Joneses" on PS4 in terms of production value, it will not be made, plain and simple.

But I think MGS, at the very least, has some room left to grow before that's a problem. Bayonetta, however, is already well past this point.

I think the implication of the post I was referring to was of a technical nature however. In which case, the budget increase will be nothing like last time. Game assets are built at far higher qualities than are used on the consoles. You can have greater density, better lighting, richer volumetric effect etc, and those things to take man hours, and so, money, but it's nothing like the investment of building art assets, or recording voice acting, doing motion capture, etc.

Crysis only cost twenty million dollars to make, including the engine, and it still looks far far better than anything on either HD console.

But you're right, the actual viability of increasing budgets is a much more natural limitation than the costs of using the new systems more fully.
Yes, I agree with this.
 

EmCeeGramr

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Jun 25, 2005
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Did people really dismiss P-100 like that when it was announced? Nintendo is genuinely hated by some, lol!
Oh it was a very measured and rational respon-

Well that was............not what I expected. Nothing horrible but eh.....
Ehhh...Those graphics look, um.
Holy crap this is by far the kiddiest offering Nintendo has ever had.

Nintendo is seriously misjudging the marketing, they are screwed....
Looks uhhh...not good.
And the disappointment continues....
Cool. More reasons not to buy a Wii U.
Well Nintendo has cemented yet another generation appealing to the 4-14 crowd, casuals and the fanboys who used to love them when they were 4-14 - despite once again claiming to want to grow a more mature audience.
Holy hell, even this was disappointing :lol
I hope this shit is a joke.
Yawn.

Platinum Games probably only has their D team working on this. :lol

Sorry, hard to get excited when there's Metal Gear Rising, Anarchy Reigns and whatever Kamiya is working on involved.
Its awful holy shit. You get Platinum Games and make them do this?
LMAO. Its horrible. Not even Platinum Games takes Wii U seriously.
High res Gamecube game.

Get the fuck out of here Nintendo.
This looks like a waste of Platinum's talents to be honest, anyone could've made this.
looks like a $5 app I'd get on ipad.
What the fuck man. Just what the fuck.
WTF is this?
Even Platinum disappoints...
platinum games!? holy shit!

<watches video>


wtf... ahahaha
THIS IS WHAT KAMIYA WAS WORKING ON?!!?

Nooooooooooooooooooooo =\
THIS IS KAMIYA'S GAME?!?!?

WHAT?

NOT LIKE THIS
Kamiya's directing this? Seriously?
Fuck. This is Kamiya's game. Talk about a huge disappointment.
Disappointed. I was expecting more.
Man, EVERYTHING at E3 has been extremely disappointing this year :/
So if Kamiya is making this, it means Bayonetta 2 isnt happening? :(
Kamiya directing this?

bayonetta 2 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO



oh well. this looks kinda neat.
Yeah, totally.

Except Kamiya working on it kills the possibility of Bayo 2, which is the single worst thing to come out of this E3.
Really? This is Kamiya's next big thing? Fuck sake I couldn't be more annoyed right now. *bitter tears*

What a waste.
Did Nintendo give you a $2 budget Kamiya?
I didn't think this could get any worse. Please make it stop. Please! How could they not have Kamiya work on Star Fox over this. NO! The cake is a lie!
yeah, nice 10-15$ download game.
Christ, this miniscule budget is a slap in the face to Kamiya after Bayonetta. :(
I'm going to remain hopeful that this casual game is just a side project given how quickly it will come out (Wii U's launch) and that he still has something major planned for TGS for the hardcore crowd. No fucking way is this all Kamiya's doing.
NOOOOOOO NOT KAMIYA
Not like this, Kamiya... not... like this :(

Platinum + Kamiya + More Powerful Console and all I feel is meh. Heartbreaking.
It looks like a $1-$5 IOS game
heh heh heh heh

hahahahahaha

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ah-huh-huh-huh, oh god

oh god, ha ha, oh god why ha ha oh a BLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO
Because every game shown for Wii U has been kiddy. I hate bringing up that old term from the N64 days, but come on! Nintendo were supposed to be going after gamers. This is not how you do it, especially not with Kamiya. He should be working on a bigger title. If this is a downloadable game, then I'll give it a pass. Other wise it is a waste of resources and potential. They have shown nothing that wasn't already known for months. He should be working on a big game now if their library is that limited. It's a complete mismanagement of time.
This!!! Nintendo has it's Mario's and Pikmin's, but where is it game to get the "hardcore" that they claim to be after? Their answer is to get Platinum/Kamiya to make a game that looks like your typical Nintendo game. This game will do nothing to help Nintendo from changing perceptions and is a waste of Kamiya's talents.
 

StuBurns

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Jan 9, 2008
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I understand there's an improved efficiency as time passes and tools/processes/engines are recouped (thanks to the formerly risky investments) but I was under the impression this is only part of the issue, namely things like design, or the growing complexity of gaming worlds lead to rising costs no matter how efficient your tools have become. Typically, the infamous "HD towns in FF" comment seemed to be more about that than just tool issues.
Indeed, despite the better console support over the generation, better creation tools, more refined pipelines, game budgets haven't gone down over the generation, they've gone up.
No. They won't make a PS3-production-level game on the PS4, any more than they made PS2-production-level games on the PS3, or PS1-production-level games on the PS2.

It doesn't happen; that particular audience expects games to take advantage of the system's horse power, and outside small niches, if games do not do this, they are rejected. If Metal Gear Solid cannot "keep up with the Joneses" on PS4 in terms of production value, it will not be made, plain and simple.

But I think MGS, at the very least, has some room left to grow before that's a problem. Bayonetta, however, is already well past this point.
I totally disagree with this. NSMBW sold over twenty million units, in no way does it keep up with the Joneses, people have certain expectations for certain genres and franchises, GTA4 cost double MGS4, GoW3 cost double Uncharted 2, it doesn't stop those games being very popular and well received.

There won't be some huge gulf, because other than CoD, no one is that far and away popular enough to set some default standard.
 

bone_and_sinew

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Feb 17, 2009
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Had no interest whatsover in getting a WiiU until this. The controls are what will make or break for me. If the game is built around traditional controller, I'm down. But if they shoehorn it for motion/tablet controls, no thank you.
 

demidar

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Feb 21, 2012
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No. They won't make a PS3-production-level game on the PS4, any more than they made PS2-production-level games on the PS3, or PS1-production-level games on the PS2.

It doesn't happen; that particular audience expects games to take advantage of the system's horse power, and outside small niches, if games do not do this, they are rejected. If Metal Gear Solid cannot "keep up with the Joneses" on PS4 in terms of production value, it will not be made, plain and simple.

But I think MGS, at the very least, has some room left to grow before that's a problem. Bayonetta, however, is already well past this point.



Yes, I agree with this.
But Deadly Premonitions was a hit! You can't explain that.
 

thebaroness

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I could see being angry if they were turning over Bayonetta to an unproven team that would ruin the good name of the first title (like say DMC2 for instance). But that's not the case. We have most of the original team, an excellent director, Kamiya supervising. I don't quite understand how releasing it on a console not preferred is going to drag Bayonetta through the mud.

In platinum we trust \m/
 

Opiate

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Dec 4, 2007
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Indeed, despite the better console support over the generation, better creation tools, more refined pipelines, game budgets haven't gone down over the generation, they've gone up.
Right, it's essentially a battle between increasingly better tools (which drive costs down) and increasing scope and complexity demanded by gamers getting the next Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty; those games cannot diminish in scale and production as they move forward.

And throughout the history of gaming, as far as I can tell, the increasing production costs driving prices up have consistently outpaced better tool sets driving prices down. There is no obvious reason to expect this pattern to suddenly reverse itself with a new coming generation.
 

InfiniteNine

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Jul 22, 2009
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I could see being angry if they were turning over Bayonetta to an unproven team that would ruin the good name of the first title (like say DMC2 for instance). But that's not the case. We have most of the original team, an excellent director, Kamiya supervising. I don't quite understand how releasing it on a console not preferred is going to drag Bayonetta through the mud.

In platinum we trust \m/
Hell yeah sister! Bring on the katanas strapped to my feet!
 

Famassu

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Sep 11, 2010
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Oh it was a very measured and rational respon-
Don't really see a reason for jett's post to be in there. He was just disappointed Kamiya's next game isn't Bayonetta 2 (since that HAD been hinted at in the past, though there had started to be rumors of cancellation), but he actually thought TW101 looks good.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
That's not really fair as people were disappointed to high heaven that it wasn't Bayo 2.
It had no pretense of being Bayonetta 2 though.

It was shown as Platinum's new game, and peopled dismissed it as their "D team" working on a downloadable game

Then it was announced that Kamiya was directing

and then people started eating each other or something


point is there was a shitstorm, so P-100 fans shouldn't be jealous of this thread
 

EmCeeGramr

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Don't really see a reason for jett's post to be in there. He was just disappointed Kamiya's next game isn't Bayonetta 2 (since that HAD been hinted at in the past, though there had started to be rumors of cancellation), but he actually thought TW101 looks good.
I threw in a couple "nooo bayo 2" posts for seasoning.
 

StuBurns

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Jan 9, 2008
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Right, it's essentially a battle between increasingly better tools (which drive costs down) and increasing scope and complexity demanded by gamers getting the next Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty; those games cannot diminish in scale and production as they move forward.

And throughout the history of gaming, as far as I can tell, the increasing production costs driving prices up have consistently outpaced better tool sets driving prices down. There is no obvious reason to expect this pattern to suddenly reverse itself with a new coming generation.
The reason is because until now, it's always been financially viable to make better looking games, now it's not.

You can sell three million units, and be a bomb, and your studio can close, and that's right now, obviously the industry cannot tolerate another budget hike.
 
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Exclusives are one of the worst things about gaming and I was glad to see them mostly gone.
I actually like exclusives, because they generally are tailored to take full advantage of a console.

Of course, that probably meant more back in the '90s, when systems had big differences between them. For instance, the Genesis had rockin' FM Synthesis tunes and a wonderful processor, while the SNES had amazing graphics and an awesome sound chip of its own. In those days, a game that took full advantage of a console was a very beautiful thing.

Nowadays, it's not as much the case, but it is still true.

For Bayo 2, the above might be invalid, since it was likely originally ported from PS360, but since it's Wii U exclusive now, they can potentially tailor it to the console and make it awesome.
 

apana

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Feb 21, 2010
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You guys think you are mad, just wait till Yamauchi hears about this. I think Iwata will have to tell him Bayonetta 2 is a plastic peripheral.
 
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