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Bayonetta complains about the Wii U's slow OS on Youtube

ajim

Member
Jan 26, 2009
4,580
68
930
The only thing that kills me is that if I pressed on a wrong software by mistake,
Hmm I think I'll play NSMB U today,
Press on NintendoLand Icon ,
FffffffffffuuuuuuuuUuUuuuuuu

Lol pretty much. OS is ridiculously slow. Oh well.
 
Oct 11, 2007
32,754
498
1,265
Good thing I never sit around and watch load screens like that. Shit would piss me off. It's not a problem for me right now, but that is just because I hit icons, then go do stuff until whatever has loaded up. That's for every system or pc I'm using. It helps that I don't actually need the tv to do anything, so I'm not in need of being in front it of it to use it. If it's not in a game, I rarely look at a loading screen in it's entirely. This is all because I despise loading of any kind that takes control away from me, so yeah, I won't complain if they make it faster lol

As long as it doesn't slow down while I'm operating it(like the new PSN store or YouTube app), I'll be fine. That shit has actually prevented me from buying games out of frustration lol

I'm much more concerned about the download speeds right now.

edit: Just tried it, and it took about 12 seconds to load the settings menu, but 16 to actually close it. Good thing I never go in here. That might have been my third time lol

edit2: Miiverse loads up for me in about the same time as my settings menu.
 

Mojojo

Member
Jun 17, 2004
1,020
0
0
Paris
This woman does not look lik Bayonetta. And neither does Palin!

 

Ydahs

Member
Jan 5, 2007
7,176
0
0
29
Australia
Thankfully mine isn't anywhere nearly that bad, but Settings is definitely the worst offender.

It's a bad approach too, since it seems many of the lighter apps are HTML-based. In those instances, starting up a web renderer every single time is just pure inefficiency. If they wanted to go this way, they should have made the entire OS and every app HTML-based, then used a single web renderer to view it all. Switching apps would take less than a second if they did so.

Loading a web renderer is not an issue. With a fraction of the processing power and RAM, the 3DS browser loads in under four seconds. A web view isn't exactly taxing on the system and it's clear that the WiiU OS was released in an unfinished state. The actual apps themselves are pretty fast, but the issue here is loading each app and switching between with can be fixed with OS optimization. Hopefully Nintendo's OS developers have that as their top priority.

Also, I think only Miiverse and eShop are the only Nintendo apps with webviews, which allows them to effortlessly retool the layout and features without the need to launch an update. Kinda makes sense since those two apps will soon be accessible on PCs and mobiles. They're the only two apps that have two separate loading screens: one for the main app and one for downloading the actual content.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Jan 19, 2007
54,014
0
1,140
I might need to time my WiiU. Either I'm subconsciously patient or I got a lucky break with my WiiU and it has a few extra Pikmin in there.

But yeah, the YouTube app is slow. But the YouTube app is shit and the browser is awesome so it's a non issue.
 

MarkMclovin

Member
Dec 5, 2008
8,867
2
0
No way is my WiiU that slow. Not even close. I mean it takes between 2.5 to 3 seconds for the settings loading screen to appear. Mine is instant.
 
The lady in the video seems to have a valid point. In 2012 smartphones the size of a Hershey's candy bar launch complex apps within seconds. Why can't the general user expect the same from a home console released in the end of 2012 when its already happening in mobile devices that are just as powerful if not more? If you're going to release something that looks and feels like a tablet, it better do the basics like switch system tasks faster than 18-24 seconds. Even when it eventually gets patched it still won't justify the sluggishness of the WiiU os at launch.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,711
3
0
36
Nowhere, PA
The only thing i've used that's slower is the new PSN sadly.

Seriously! Why did they design this PSN? I don't get why people designing this shit don't think straightforward and minimalistic is the way to go. Faster, smarter, stronger is the way to go! Stuff like the whole "why don't you rhyme about how much you died after this level" - where you can almost hear Iwata giggling to himself over how clever and cute he believes Nintendo is being - should have come way down the line to ensuring the OS works whip fast.

And yes I know that many people here scream 'those ports are shit'. But they're not, They're just not. They're slightly different, much like PS3 versions.
That the console isn't more powerful is a disappointment, but it doesn't matter. The advantages that the gamepad has over the others, not just the screen, but the comfort and accuracy of the sticks (BLOPS) just makes it better for gaming in my opinion, not by miles, but easily enough to sway me.

This is a launch and I doubt we will see many of these problems in a few months, once everyone has got to grips with the machine. And that includes Nintendo.

Some ports are fine (AC3 seems to be fine), but most of the launch ports are littered with significant issues, from serious framerate inferiority (which is a huge thing in something like Call of Duty) to areas having lower res textures or poor texture streaming and areas which are less populated with stuff (Darksiders II). Sure, if it's the only platform with comparable-to-this gen power that you own then they're not so bad that you can't live with it, but to say most of the ports are just 'different' and not markedly inferior is a bit misleading. Since we're neoGAF, many of us have read the tech comparisons or played both versions of a game, and we can tell the problems. If you're just off the street you wouldn't be able to tell as quickly, naturally.

Also about your theory that Nintendo wants word-of-mouth instead of just blow out, or having the Ikea model of release broke then fix... it seems like a stretch. Nintendo just makes some really poor decisions because a lot of this stuff is their first real attempt at trying to get up to par with what Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 owners have been familiar with for a generation (and with a generation worth of fixes and improvements to boot). Nintendo is seriously behind the curve with this stuff, always has been, and I just think they were not prepared for the backlash regarding the OS design because:

a.) it was impossible to have a beta at the scale similar to the waves of people who get systems at launches
b.) they seem to have been so focused on trying to differentiate themselves from the competition with the sub-twitter game "communities" via Miiverse with the hideous Miis that they probably didn't have their priorities all where they should have been, imo.

That seems more like the Nintendo trademark to me, because the wiimote tech and Wii itself had issues like that. Wiimote tech has a lot of very real problems, and it took a long time before they got to Motion+, and people had to frequently suffer games which had a scope of vision but couldn't quite reach it because the tech wasn't quite there yet. Nintendo wanted the innovation and they got the innovation; but that often seems to come (for them) at the sacrifice to polish in other areas.

I think you're right it will be fixed over time, though, I can't imagine they've painted themselves into a wall like they did with Wii. They will get better at this over time.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
Jul 28, 2011
12,405
2
0
I'm really sorry to say this but this is one of the differences between sony console owners and nintendo console owners(and press treatment sometimes).

Sony owners complain about everything(rightly?), on the ps3 side: the organization and the lag of the xmb, the ps3 browser(oh man what a shit!), the store etc, on the vita side: the new os, the loading times of some of the launch games(people went crazy, vita is not powerful/fast enough, vita is doomed etc) and so on.

The wiiu was released almost a month ago and this is the first time i read of such scandalous os loading times, a sony console with the same problem would have been instantly destroyed by everyone.
 
Jul 15, 2004
19,940
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UK
The wiiu was released almost a month ago and this is the first time i read of such scandalous os loading times, a sony console with the same problem would have been instantly destroyed by everyone.

This just says that you haven't been in many Wii U threads since launch. In fact, pre-launch, various unboxing and demo videos before the patch exposed this very issue, especially with regard to the abysmal loading time of the settings screens.
 
Jun 11, 2004
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Definitely needs speeding up. In most areas, it's not nearly as bad as the horrible, near indecipherable maze that is the Xbox 360 OS (Microsoft still just cannot do UI design) and nothing on the console is as downright offensive (or usually as slow) as the redesigned PSN store, but it's ridiculously slow at this point, and serious optimisation needs to be done.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Jan 29, 2008
36,152
8
0
Australia
I have no idea how OS programming (or any programming for that matter) works. So I don't know the root of Nintendo's issues.

However, with Nintendo's latest products, in contrast to say the PS3, the OS always seems to work on an application basis rather than functions being inbuilt into the OS itself. On the PS3 you can immediately access and change most functions of the OS from the main menu. It's seamless and part of the OS application itself, kind of like how document processing software will let you type, print, and format with variables all as part of the same application.

With Nintendo's it's like to do anything you have to boot a separate application through the OS. So, where on the PS3, you tap left a few times, hit system settings, and tweak shit on the fly, on Nintendo's systems you have to boot the "System Settings" application. Like the OS isn't able to edit shit dynamically and from boot. It boots, and it references system setting variables. To edit those variables you need to boot the "variable editing application", and use that.

Same goes for shit like the friend applications. Even though they're integrated into the OS to a certain degree, they always seem to boot and function like a totally separate application. Again, on the PS3 all I have to do tap to the right and my friends list is shown and updated in real time on an OS level. Messaging too. It all happens within the main OS, both sending and receiving. Yet with Nintendo you always need to boot a separate application from within the OS, wait for it to load, and then view/edit the data.

This probably makes no sense to anybody with a lick of programming skill, and I expect I'm wrong, but that's at least the upfront difference I see with Nintendo's OS for both the 3DS and Wii U. Few functions, even if they do work somewhat in the back end, are usable from directly within the OS. You have too boot a separate application to do anything, and that slows shit down.
 

QaaQer

Member
Jun 13, 2012
11,333
0
0
the poetry of google cc translate:

Prior sale of the North American species of mini Altima ship by Board of Kansai

Sudden Death was an unconventional province

thought rode downtown

We are exposed here

I was made to take 6 days

Or a memory legal softening

I was born and I do not even standing not even

been compared to pork
 

Xater

Member
Jul 28, 2007
48,003
4
0
That not even the worst guys! Try changing the system language. Every time you do it you get a pop up with a loading bar that tells you it can take up to 2 minutes. I switch between German and English often and it's a complete hassle. On PS3 and Xbox 360 it's a setting that is changed instantly.

Alternatively developers should learn to give a language option in the game itself...
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
Jul 28, 2011
12,405
2
0
This just says that you haven't been in many Wii U threads since launch. In fact, pre-launch, various unboxing and demo videos before the patch exposed this very issue, especially with regard to the abysmal loading time of the settings screens.

You are right, i was not in wiiu threads, but there were millions of wiiu threads, even for very little things, but no one specific to this big problem, how many thread complaining about the xmb, the vita os, the ps3 browser etc we had? It's not the same imo.
 

falconzss

Member
Dec 12, 2008
1,814
0
0
That not even the worst guys! Try changing the system language. Every time you do it you get a pop up with a loading bar that tells you it can take up to 2 minutes. I switch between German and English often and it's a complete hassle. On PS3 and Xbox 360 it's a setting that is changed instantly.

Alternatively developers should learn to give a language option in the game itself...

Are you telling me that you have to change the system language because games automatically use it as a default for games and you can't switch in the games settings?
 

kinggroin

Banned
Sep 4, 2006
14,210
1
0
I have no idea how OS programming (or any programming for that matter) works. So I don't know the root of Nintendo's issues.

However, with Nintendo's latest products, in contrast to say the PS3, the OS always seems to work on an application basis rather than functions being inbuilt into the OS itself. On the PS3 you can immediately access and change most functions of the OS from the main menu. It's seamless and part of the OS application itself, kind of like how document processing software will let you type, print, and format with variables all as part of the same application.

With Nintendo's it's like to do anything you have to boot a separate application through the OS. So, where on the PS3, you tap left a few times, hit system settings, and tweak shit on the fly, on Nintendo's systems you have to boot the "System Settings" application. Like the OS isn't able to edit shit dynamically and from boot. It boots, and it references system setting variables. To edit those variables you need to boot the "variable editing application", and use that.

Same goes for shit like the friend applications. Even though they're integrated into the OS to a certain degree, they always seem to boot and function like a totally separate application. Again, on the PS3 all I have to do tap to the right and my friends list is shown and updated in real time on an OS level. Messaging too. It all happens within the main OS, both sending and receiving. Yet with Nintendo you always need to boot a separate application from within the OS, wait for it to load, and then view/edit the data.

This probably makes no sense to anybody with a lick of programming skill, and I expect I'm wrong, but that's at least the upfront difference I see with Nintendo's OS for both the 3DS and Wii U. Few functions, even if they do work somewhat in the back end, are usable from directly within the OS. You have too boot a separate application to do anything, and that slows shit down.

I don't think that's a completely unreasonable assessment. I mean, think about it, when you're actually in any of these segmented apps, they perform just fine (at least as well as you'd expect web apps to perform).

Maybe Nintendo did it this way so that it'd be easier to allocate more memory if developers needed it? Like, if the entire OS was already capable of performing all the same functions without having to load seperate apps, it would have a much bigger, unavoidable footprint, no?
 

xenist

Member
Mar 9, 2012
6,421
0
0
What the hell? My PC boots from fully powered down in the same time. This explains why the Wii-U stands I've seen are all stuck in the e-shop and you're not able to do anything else with them.
 

wsippel

Banned
May 25, 2006
14,534
0
0
Erfurt, Germany
I have no idea how OS programming (or any programming for that matter) works. So I don't know the root of Nintendo's issues.

However, with Nintendo's latest products, in contrast to say the PS3, the OS always seems to work on an application basis rather than functions being inbuilt into the OS itself. On the PS3 you can immediately access and change most functions of the OS from the main menu. It's seamless and part of the OS application itself, kind of like how document processing software will let you type, print, and format with variables all as part of the same application.

With Nintendo's it's like to do anything you have to boot a separate application through the OS. So, where on the PS3, you tap left a few times, hit system settings, and tweak shit on the fly, on Nintendo's systems you have to boot the "System Settings" application. Like the OS isn't able to edit shit dynamically and from boot. It boots, and it references system setting variables. To edit those variables you need to boot the "variable editing application", and use that.

Same goes for shit like the friend applications. Even though they're integrated into the OS to a certain degree, they always seem to boot and function like a totally separate application. Again, on the PS3 all I have to do tap to the right and my friends list is shown and updated in real time on an OS level. Messaging too. It all happens within the main OS, both sending and receiving. Yet with Nintendo you always need to boot a separate application from within the OS, wait for it to load, and then view/edit the data.

This probably makes no sense to anybody with a lick of programming skill, and I expect I'm wrong, but that's at least the upfront difference I see with Nintendo's OS for both the 3DS and Wii U. Few functions, even if they do work somewhat in the back end, are usable from directly within the OS. You have too boot a separate application to do anything, and that slows shit down.
You're correct, but what Nintendo does isn't really odd from an OS design standpoint. Having the settings in a separate application is how "normal" operating systems work. You access that stuff so rarely that it simply makes no sense loading it every time you turn on the system (as part of the main menu).

Everything else is very standard OS design as well. Almost all the "apps" are just frontends. So the friends list, messaging, notifications, download management and such are actually always running in the background (like UNIX daemons or Windows services), but without a graphical frontend. I believe the daemons also run on the ARM processor, not the main CPU. That approach saves RAM and processing power without sacrificing features, at the expense of introducing some additional load times.
 

Always-honest

Banned
Jan 11, 2008
41,681
1
0
Yeah it's slow as hell. Really a crying shame. This has to improve A LOT with coming updates.

And with a lot i mean decimated.
 

FoxHimself

Member
Mar 15, 2006
4,239
1
1,335
I have no idea how OS programming (or any programming for that matter) works. So I don't know the root of Nintendo's issues.

However, with Nintendo's latest products, in contrast to say the PS3, the OS always seems to work on an application basis rather than functions being inbuilt into the OS itself. On the PS3 you can immediately access and change most functions of the OS from the main menu. It's seamless and part of the OS application itself, kind of like how document processing software will let you type, print, and format with variables all as part of the same application.

With Nintendo's it's like to do anything you have to boot a separate application through the OS. So, where on the PS3, you tap left a few times, hit system settings, and tweak shit on the fly, on Nintendo's systems you have to boot the "System Settings" application. Like the OS isn't able to edit shit dynamically and from boot. It boots, and it references system setting variables. To edit those variables you need to boot the "variable editing application", and use that.

Same goes for shit like the friend applications. Even though they're integrated into the OS to a certain degree, they always seem to boot and function like a totally separate application. Again, on the PS3 all I have to do tap to the right and my friends list is shown and updated in real time on an OS level. Messaging too. It all happens within the main OS, both sending and receiving. Yet with Nintendo you always need to boot a separate application from within the OS, wait for it to load, and then view/edit the data.

This probably makes no sense to anybody with a lick of programming skill, and I expect I'm wrong, but that's at least the upfront difference I see with Nintendo's OS for both the 3DS and Wii U. Few functions, even if they do work somewhat in the back end, are usable from directly within the OS. You have too boot a separate application to do anything, and that slows shit down.

This seems like it's spot on. But it baffles the mind to think that Nintendo has 30 times the memory allocated to running shit in the background than the 360 or PS3, and yet does it so poorly or indeed not at all.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
43,345
2
1,645
I have no idea how OS programming (or any programming for that matter) works. So I don't know the root of Nintendo's issues.

However, with Nintendo's latest products, in contrast to say the PS3, the OS always seems to work on an application basis rather than functions being inbuilt into the OS itself. On the PS3 you can immediately access and change most functions of the OS from the main menu. It's seamless and part of the OS application itself, kind of like how document processing software will let you type, print, and format with variables all as part of the same application.

With Nintendo's it's like to do anything you have to boot a separate application through the OS. So, where on the PS3, you tap left a few times, hit system settings, and tweak shit on the fly, on Nintendo's systems you have to boot the "System Settings" application. Like the OS isn't able to edit shit dynamically and from boot. It boots, and it references system setting variables. To edit those variables you need to boot the "variable editing application", and use that.

Same goes for shit like the friend applications. Even though they're integrated into the OS to a certain degree, they always seem to boot and function like a totally separate application. Again, on the PS3 all I have to do tap to the right and my friends list is shown and updated in real time on an OS level. Messaging too. It all happens within the main OS, both sending and receiving. Yet with Nintendo you always need to boot a separate application from within the OS, wait for it to load, and then view/edit the data.

This probably makes no sense to anybody with a lick of programming skill, and I expect I'm wrong, but that's at least the upfront difference I see with Nintendo's OS for both the 3DS and Wii U. Few functions, even if they do work somewhat in the back end, are usable from directly within the OS. You have too boot a separate application to do anything, and that slows shit down.

The Vita OS actually adopts this approach. It's the 'everything is an app' approach, no doubt influenced by smartphone operating systems, and I guess they wanted that for their new handheld.

The difference being the performance, of course. I've no complaints about getting into and out of things on Vita from a speed point of view, so this approach can be fine...if it's fast enough. I never feel like I've crossed some bridge that I have to walk back over to get back to the OS when I go into something on Vita...the OS is always just there, instantly.

(I do think, though, that it's a bit OTT to put things like settings and friends lists into their own apps. Certain basics could be woven into always-on parts of the OS)

edit - on further thought, maybe one other big difference is that Nintendo extends 'everything is an app' to the main menu itself. So when you boot something, it actually kicks the main menu out of an execution context, and brings in the other app. Maybe the main menu doesn't persist alongside execution of anything else because it itself might be an 'app' without any privileges over the others. So I think they might need to do two things - improve speed and improve the multitasking, so the main menu, at least, can always be simply 'there'.
 

davonaytor

Member
Dec 12, 2008
746
0
0
Australia
Seriously, the load times are completely insane. Whenever I click on miiverse, I pull out my iPad and browse NeoGAF while I wait.

What the hell is the console doing, that's making it take that long? The only conclusion I can draw is that it's doing some very intense security stuff, because Nintendo would be really paranoid after the Wii. Or maybe it attempts to upload usage data to a server, or something. My PC can probably turn on, and get to the desktop faster than my Wii U can get out of a settings menu.
 
May 20, 2009
15,936
2
810
I don't see the "wow". Some games have languages options, most games do not. Don't think it's different on any other system released within the last decade or so.

It's the point that if the language setting is not the one he wants, he has to wait 2 min. for something that should be instant. We are on the brink of 2013 and this is the shit Nintendo puts out?

Shameful.