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Bayonetta Vs Wonderful 101 (and just Platinum in general)

Fandangox

Member
Jan 15, 2013
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In the Bayonetta 2 there was a brief discussion about Wonderful 101 and how it compares to Bayonetta.

I thought it'd be nice to have a thread about what are the strengths and weaknesses of each game (and any other Platinum game in general that you may want to add to the table)

I am gonna try to be brief on both though.

Bayonetta

This is for both games. While I personally like Wonderful 101 more, I think both Bayonetta (2, at least) its a better game because its more focused on its core mechanics. There are many gimmicks versions, but they are not as often as in W101 and they are even less frequent in the sequel.

Bayonetta is a challenging game, in the first game it was not uncommon for me to die out in actual encounters (something that rarely happens to me in w101 or Bayo 2) but it feels fair, like every hit one takes its because one's own faults, not because the game was being unfair on it.

The way the game deals with weapons is great, one can equip most weapons in one's arm and feet, and if one buys a duplicate of a weapon, it can equip it in both. There are two sets one can have at any time, and weapons can also be easily changed. I think this adds a lot of variety and allows for different gameplay styles.

In terms of spectacle both Bayonetta games are great. The boss battle in the first are great, and the Jubileus fight is incredible thanks to its music and buildup, however I find that fighting the actual boss battle in the first game is not all that great. I think the second game's final boss is a tad underwhelming in a "this is the resolution to the plot" kind of way, but I definitely had a lot more fun fighting that last Boss Battle than with the first game's final boss.

I think the problem in the first game is the QTE sections, Wonderful 101 had them too, but if you failed those in w101 you would only lose health (for most of them, I think, haven't tested failing in all of them) in the first Bayonetta failing a QTE meant a GAME OVER meaning that one's entire hard work on a chapter could be ruined just by failing a single button prompt that newcomers (and even people that just haven't gone back to the game in some time) will probably fail often.

Also the story, the story in the first game wasn't terrible, it was at least entertaining as a story that didn't take itself too seriously all the time, and I at least did find the characters enjoyable, I thought the second Bayonetta had a much better story, wouldn't you agree, love?

Seriously though, I think the second game's plot is a lot better, it actually managed to flesh out the first one and change how one would see the first game's plot, although I won't dwell too much on that cause of spoilers.

Wonderful 101

Oh man this game.

I love this game, It made it into my top 10 ever.

I however can understand a lot of the complains from this game. While I think the gimmick sections help with the pace of the game, and are all too varied, I can agree that there's just too many of them, and some of them more than overstay their welcome.

I think the game would have been a lot better with just making some of these shorter, or just not making them part of overall ranking.

Another (minor) flaw I'd give to the game, would kind of the opposite of what I said about Bayonetta's plot and characters. I think as a whole, this is probably Platinum's best story, BUT the characters aren't just all that great.

While I personally loved Red, Vorkenn, and Blue, the rest of the w101s just... felt flat. I think it might be on purpose due to how all of them are ridiculous stereotypes, but even if It was on purpose there's just so many times I can find Blue's and Green's antics funny (not that manny).

I did love how silly and over the top the entire thing is though, the game, in terms of specatle and escalation was amazing and hilarious. It was like mixing Gurren Laggan with Kill la Kill. Shit just kept getting realer and realer until it was at its realest, and it was hilarious on top of that. I just think most of the main characters weren't really all that great.

Onto the weapons, I loved how the game dealt with it. All weapons are readily available (once they are first unlocked, that is) and have to be drawn them to get use them

I also liked the light RTS elements in the game.

Each morph takes up battery energy, this includes dodging. I liked it that one couldn't dodge whilly nilly and had to be more thoughtful about it, but then again this was not really a problem until the hardest difficulties, so I don't think it's implementation was all that substantial in the other difficulties.

In terms of content. THIS GAME HAS LOTS. There's unlockables everywhere, with 15 (or 14, not sure) Unlockable heroes, each with their own little quirks and there's a Kahkooh-Regah (This game's Alfheim/Muspelheim challenges) for EACH DIFFICULTY starting from normal. That's great. There's ton of content in this game, took me some time to 101% all of it.

The final boss spectacle was great. It felt like a great ending to the whole story. Seeing the boss throw those little minions at you
which are the actual giant robots from the first operation
gives one the sense of how big the scale has scalated. The music was great. I, however did not have as much fun fighting this as I did fighting Bayonetta's 2 final boss. Also that escape section was annoying >:v


Ultimately, I love Wonderful 101 for what it is, and what it did, I just think that Bayonetta is the better game simply because it focused much more on the combat.
Sorry for not doing much of an actual comparison of the games, but I at least wanted to throw out my feelings on both of these.

Which game did you think was best, in which aspects? You can also throw whichever other Platinum game you want into the mix. I haven't been able to finish MGR yet (haven't had a ps3 for a while now) and would love to hear how that compares too.
 

andymcc

Banned
Dec 17, 2007
14,908
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as a whole, I like Bayonetta 2 better than W101 but the ending to W101 was hype as fuck and probably the hypest ending to a video game i've ever played.
 

akidnamededdy

Banned
Dec 6, 2011
6,854
1
0
I love W101 but it always felt more chaotic than I would like, like I wasn't quite in control. The Bayo games are better in that regard. Plus Bayonetta herself is awesome.
 

Celegus

Member
Jun 29, 2012
9,846
0
0
Pittsburgh PA
the ending to W101 was hype as fuck and probably the hypest ending to a video game i've ever played.

Truer words have never been spoken.

I found parts of W101 frustrating, but still loved it overall. But that ending. Ohhhhh that ending. I can't wait to start Bayonetta 2.
 

impact

Banned
Aug 14, 2011
12,138
0
0
Vanquish > Bayonetta 2 > Bayonetta > Metal Gear Rising > TW101

All great gameplay obviously, with each having their own individual strengths. MGR has the best bosses, Vanquish has everything, Bayonetta has the best combat, TW101 has terrible weapon drawing/switching to ruin the game, etc. One thing is for sure, they are the masters of the action genre. I can't wait to see MGR2 with more dev time and money. Easily the best Metal Gear :)
 
Jul 13, 2009
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They are both amazing, I expect more people to like Bayonetta but W101 is just so stupidly charming that I think I like it more.

Wonderful 101 also takes a way longer time to understand, but when you do, you're a god.
 
Oct 1, 2006
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All three are excellent but The Wonderful 101 shines the brightest.

It has more personality(though Bayonetta and Rodin are awesome), I like the battle engine better(though that's not taking anything away from the fast precision of Bayonetta) and I found the story and characters(both friends and enemies) way more memorable.
 

Fandangox

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Jan 15, 2013
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Truer words have never been spoken.

I found parts of W101 frustrating, but still loved it overall. But that ending. Ohhhhh that ending. I can't wait to start Bayonetta 2.

Agree, I think the combat itself is fantastic, but there are some chapters I don't like replying cause of the gimmick sections, like the one in operation 6, or the one in operation 9.

as a whole, I like Bayonetta 2 better than W101 but the ending to W101 was hype as fuck and probably the hypest ending to a video game i've ever played.

Yeah, its just exhilarating, it gave
protect earth
a whole new meaning to me lol
 
Sep 28, 2014
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Bayonetta easily the reason i love platinum games is the challenging combat, everything else surrounding it (music,insane stuff happening,characters) i will only love if the combat is also incredibly fun. W101 has everything but the combat for me.
 

Lunar15

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Jun 15, 2011
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I far prefer the themes and setting of W101, but it definitely loses focus at times.

I think the highs were higher in W101, but B2 is a more fluid experience.
 

Sephzilla

Member
Feb 13, 2013
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405
W101 is probably my least favorite game from Platinum that I've played

Dont hate me, please :(
 

grandwizard

Member
Sep 15, 2013
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Bayonetta 2 is a more refined version of something you already kind of know. That is similar to the first game, at the end of the day you are still controlling a singular character running around swinging a sword or whatever. It's a glorious game but that basic gist of it is much more approachable. Wonderful 101 is a completely new thing, much like the original DMC was in 2001. And I believe because of this it did not resonate with many people who expected another traditional character action game. I loved Wonderful 101, but it definitely took a few hours to 'click' and unfortunately that is longer than a lot of players are willing to give a game these days.
 
Jun 12, 2013
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In terms of pure gameplay, Vanquish reigns supreme. It's awful story and characters bring the overall package down though. TW101 I feel is Platinum's best game. It's the biggest, most varied, and has the best story.

IMO TW101 > Vanquish > Bayonetta = Bayonetta 2 > MadWorld > Metal Gear Rising.
 

Shun

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Nov 30, 2013
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I feel like the two are too different to quantify as "better than the other".

Bayonetta 2 is much more accessible and the gameplay is top notch for it's control scheme. It does things extremely well within the confines of the traditional action game control scheme. It doesn't push the boundary for the action game genre but it sure as hell sets a high benchmark for all action games from here on out.

The Wonderful 101 pushes the boundaries of the action game genre and is extremely innovative in it's control scheme and combat system. It could definitely use more polish, but I find it to be one of the best control schemes out there. It's perfect for what it's trying to accomplish and the drawback of The Wonderful 101 is the extremely high learning curve for people to learn it.

The drawing is not terrible at all and it's something people just aren't used to yet. The combat in W101 is extremely deep and fluid and is only handicapped by the skill needed to pull it off.

Both games do things extremely well and I love both Bayonetta and The Wonderful 101 for what they accomplish. I strongly believe that The Wonderful 101 does compare to Bayonetta as one of the greatest action games out there and people may disagree due to the high learning curve of the controls and it's overall higher difficulty.
 

Astral/H3X

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Aug 17, 2012
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W101 would have benefited GREATLY from having the gimmick sections be rankless. As it is you feel pressured to master mechanics for single sections of the game. If none of the damage in those areas counted, and full health restored at the end of each of them, the game would immediately be better for it.

Haven't gotten to 2 yet, but Bayonetta is definitely easier to understand.
 

Vaddon

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Sep 17, 2012
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I prefer the style and personality of W101, I think the highs are much greater than the Bayonetta games. Still, I think the action itself is much better in Bayonetta. W101 is a completely insane game that can lead to some incredible moments. I think Bayonetta is more consistent in the quality of its gameplay overall, though.
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Feb 24, 2013
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Bayonetta is more of an action game while W101 is more of an adventure game with all the mini games and different mechanics.

Personally, I wanted a bigger focus on action therefore Bayonetta is superior for me.
 

impact

Banned
Aug 14, 2011
12,138
0
0
W101 is probably my least favorite game from Platinum that I've played

Dont hate me, please :(
I feel like if more than 101 people played it, more P* fans would agree with you. I agree, but I haven't played MadWorld or Anarchy Reigns. Definitely my least favorite of their games I've played though, too much gimmickry.
 

Zocano

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Aug 25, 2012
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Bayonetta feels like a better overall package than Bayonetta 2. I like a lot of Bayonetta 2 but I wanted a DMC3 to DMC1 and not just more Bayonetta. Also I cool story would've helped but instead we get a stupid squirrel kid |:

Haven't played W101.

Vanquish is okay at best. There are better shooters with better enemy and level design. It controls well but the enemies aren't fun to fight (except for the final boss). I'd rather play Uncharted or Gears any day of the week.

Metal Gear Rising is sex and the best metal gear game by miles. It's lacking a lot as far as polish and extra content but the bosses are wonderful and it's great to replay. Also dat OST.

Anarchy Reigns was a fun distraction but ultimately felt a bit shallow.
 

FlashbladeGAF

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Sep 11, 2006
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Bayonetta V Wonderful 101: Dawn of Justice

 

mdubs

Banned
Nov 23, 2013
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I liked W101 more, the story and characters are a lot better and I enjoyed the visual style of the game more than Bayonetta.
 

Mesoian

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Mar 23, 2012
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I like the trapping and world of W101 better, but Bayonetta's combat system is still second to none. W101 is a really interesting game because it's slower pace in combat allows people who may not be familiar with character action games to wrap their heads around the entire genre.

They're both absolute must owns.

as a whole, I like Bayonetta 2 better than W101 but the ending to W101 was hype as fuck and probably the hypest ending to a video game i've ever played.

I can't remember the last time a game made me jump to my feet and shout during a sequence.

W101 may have the best ending in a video game of all time.
 
Sep 2, 2011
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W101 is one of the worst good games ive ever played.

As in, I can see the quality, I see why people love it, but it doesn't change the fact it feels like a steaming turd of a game.

Playing Bayonetta and experiencing yet again the joy at a new good platinum game has only made my opinion of W101 worse. First platinum game I have ever traded in.

Goodbye and good riddance.
 
Jul 29, 2010
15,423
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www.neogaf.com
Played about 75% of TW101 and completed Bayo 1. I'd probably say I enjoy TW101 more at this point. Both games have gimmick sections I'm not too fond of, but at least TW101 is more upfront about it. I feel like Bayo keeps sabotaging itself with pointless gimmicks and oversized bosses that don't mesh particularly well with the core combat mechanics (compared to humanoid enemies). Those insta death QTEs in Bayo can also suck it.
 

wrowa

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Jul 26, 2006
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Wonderful 101 felt more inspired than Bayonetta 2. It does a lot of crazy stuff, while Bayonetta 2 is relatively tame in comparison. However, Bayonetta 2 is a really fluid and smooth gameplay experience: You'll have fun with the game from the very first minute, even if you don't understand the in and outs of the gameplay yet. The same can't be said about Wonderful 101, which really takes a lot of time to get into (despite wanting to be a more approachable game - it's a complete game design failure in that regard). With that in mind, I would call Bayonetta 2 the superior game of the two. I like both games a lot, though.
 

Marow

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Mar 17, 2014
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Only played Metal Gear Rising and LOVE it (except those dlc missions)! The Bayonetta 2 demo was pretty great too.

Got Wonderful 101 waiting for me. Can't wait. Platinum seem to be the king of action games.
 
Sep 2, 2011
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But those are contradictory statements...

Not really.

Just because something is well made and is loved by a great many people, doesnt mean I would like it.

I dislike it more because how much time I put into it, despite the fact I hated it. I actually beat it twice and didnt enjoy one bit of it.

Never again. No developer is infallible.
 

ninjablade

Banned
Dec 9, 2012
2,798
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I have only played MGSR as it's the only game that appeals to me. it's a great flawed game, but it has some of the best and coolest bosses in a game, the frame rate and the graphics are a let down, and playing my second play though on hard with everything upgraded is way to easy, why can't i choose a harder difficulty. playing as sam was awesome, hoping he will be in the main game in MGSR 2. the game really needs a better dodge button and a 60fps locked frame rate..
 

Ninja Dom

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Mar 15, 2005
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I've mentioned it before but Platinum are now the talked about Japanese game studio much like how Treasure used to be around 10 years ago.
 

Shun

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Nov 30, 2013
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Whoa I had to look this up, guess I'll be playing more W101

That's an upgrade you get. Once you have 200 Wonderful Ones, you can transform into a giant Wonderful One from the cast and the hidden characters in the game.

You need to unlock it but it's really really cool and satisfying to play.
 

DJ_Lae

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Jan 28, 2008
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I confess I have not purchased W101 yet but I did borrow it from the library for a few weeks and didn't really feel compelled to play all that much. I just wasn't enjoying it - maybe things would click if I played it more, but if I'm honest I already have too little time to play games and slogging through something I'm not enjoying in the hopes that I'll figure out or it'll magically reveal itself to me...nope.

Bayonetta 2, on the other hand, was immediately fun to play.
 

Zomba13

Member
Sep 27, 2009
19,653
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705
Bayonetta (1 and 2) is the better game in my opinion as in the mechanics feel tighter and over all it's the more fun game to play but TW101 definitely has it beat on scale and spectacle. The huge boss fights, 100 characters forming a huge sword, the whole thing that leads up to the end. I also think it might have the better story and character interactions. It does help that TW101 has a bigger cast of character. It's such a cool game but I'd rather play Bayo 2 for fun and watch someone play TW101.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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I've mentioned it before but Platinum are now the talked about Japanese game studio much like how Treasure used to be around 10 years ago.

Both studios formed by former Capcom employees too. lol.

I much prefer Bayonetta it's easier to master, TW101 has a very steep difficulty curve to truly master IMO but it's still a great game.
 

Marcus

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Oct 25, 2013
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I've mentioned it before but Platinum are now the talked about Japanese game studio much like how Treasure used to be around 10 years ago.

so sad. treasure really fell off. they havent put out a decent game since S&P2 i think
 

Sagitario

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Jun 9, 2004
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I love and hate TW101.
I'd still be playing it if it wasn't for:
- The shooter levels
- The Punch-Out fights/challenges
- The horrible two-screens sections
The loading for the Kahkoo-regah portals (when retrying them) didn't help either.
It's a shame. I really wanted to keep playing and try a Platinum run, but I just couldn't do it anymore.
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Jun 7, 2004
21,120
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I'll never get tired of hearing the line: "Citizens of Dearth!"
 

Lernaean

Banned
Nov 7, 2013
5,447
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Bayonetta 2 > Bayonetta = W101 > MGR:R >>>> Vanquish >>>>Everything else.
W101 is ridden by technical issues, most notably framerate and aliasing, cause you can't call it buggy or anything, and its not too difficult but unique combat system will have many of the very few that picked it up in the first place, abandon it.
That doesn't mean ofc that it isn't a bright example of game structure, creation and innovation. Plus it has some of the craziest boss battles of all PG offerings so far, even Bayonetta 2.
I'm glad that, stubborn as a mule as i am, i gave it a chance, and now it's up there with the best as far as I'm concerned.
 

Nocturnowl

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Jan 1, 2011
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Comparing the games directly is a bit tricky in that while they share an incredibly similar structure and a few mechanics the way they both approach combat is in actuality quite different.

One thing I do find interesting about comparing them though is the ideas of both simplicity and complexity within their designs. Okay so to actually help get where I'm coming from lets start with the opinion expressed by some that W101 is a much tougher game to get into, an understandable claim seeing its rather unique approach to the genre has some growing pains with a fair bit of info to factor in, how the number of wonderful ones affects weapon creation, limitations in numbers, the heavy price for getting hit scattering all your characters among other things. W101 has its own logic that can't be immediately grasped, safe to say on GAF I've seen quite a few posters that say they've been bamboozled by how to approach W101.
Jumping over to the earlier stages of Bayonetta and a simple brief tutorial on "here is punch, here is kick, this is dodge and witch time, okay go!" can be enough to set players on their way to successfully bludgeoning angels into pulp with a variety of combos available via combining the gradually increasing weapon selection, Witch Time itself is a great aid in helping players understand the importance of evasion and extra time to knock out combos safely.

Now here's the part that in particular intrigues me based upon my own experience, when W101 clicked it clicked hard and all of a sudden I saw that its actual combat was in fact fantastically simplistic, instead of a long list of button combos you had a really simple one button string of attacks along with just a few other tricks like stinger and spin attacks, that could end up being a bit too boring if that's all there was to it but by keeping the attacks simple in execution it allowed an easy transition to other weapon types. The various unite morphs each have uses for the specific situation, you begin to see how certain enemies are best approached with the right weapon at the right time, the impending glow of a blue lazer beam means you better switch to the sword as a reflecter which true to the games simple side simply requires you to stand still in order to reflect the beam. Without having to worry so much about various combo inputs that could lead my character flippity flopping all over the place like an Indy Wrestler I could focus more on everything surrounding the core attacking options and the games subsystems that factor into each other and here is where the beauty in W101 lies with me, it feels like a frantic action puzzle where you react accordingly to the threats thrown at you, it's just a case of knowing what works and what doesn't like dodging slices and blocking impact blows.

Back to Bayonetta, my first run through the game was enjoyable enough but despite grasping the basics of the game I always felt like I was missing something entirely, indeed Bayonetta is a game that hides its own complexities within and the basic brawling is just the tip of the ice berg. Bayonetta doesn't seem to force the extra depth upon the player, going through normal mode it's simple enough to just bumble through ranking stone awards with my good buddy Enzo and all, generous checkpoints even during bosses should allow most players to get through to the finish without knowing what the heck the term Dodge Offset means, after all I sure didn't. So here's what I'm thinking, W101 forces its complexities on the player to a stronger degree, if you want to have anything close to a good time with the game you need to "get it" and when you do grasp its approach to the genre it turns out that at least in my mind its actually a rather simplified way of approaching a character action game with its own unique twist. Bayonetta meanwhile makes it easy to just dive into but to truly get the most out of the game and understand what makes it so highly rated you have to dig into its arguably more hidden depths, or perhaps I'm overstating it based on my original crapulence at the game but in any case it's only now having finished my first run of Bayonetta 2 am I finally feeling like I understand both Bayonetta games that much more.

So basically this was a long way of me saying that I actually found W101 a more understandable game despite its initial hurdles while it was actually bayonetta that left me further out the loop by the end, funny that! At the same time it's easy to see why W101 confounds some and comes across as obtuse.


Now going back to the thread's main point of picking game preference my own experience in the above puts the ball in W101's court. On top of that I prefer its aesthetics, characters and plot (Bayonetta really doesn't have much footing on that last one, characters are fun enough though). Bayonetta has more depth to its mechanics while still remaining open to more players which is a strength, its combat seems to allow for more experimentation and gives greater options, I think I can say that it's the better game that feels more cohesive and less of a jumble that the W101 can become with its bigger emphasis on genre switch ups and gamepad gimmickry (though it arguably does minigame stuff better than the few in both Bayonetta titles).

That all said I have to go with W101, flaws and all the game was an absolute riot, I love how the morphs all have their own purposes and multiple uses beyond wailing on the wonderful rogues gallery, I dig how observing enemies carefully to understand them and more effectively counter their moves gives it a more thoughtful approach to combat, it has one of the greatest finale segments in all of video game history and it manages to make the battles against giant towering bosses actually feel damn good as they tend to work better with this games style of combat (inversely the doppelgänger style bosses that a game like Bayonetta revels in aren't so hot in W101).
When it comes down to it, it's all good times no matter the game preference, pure platinums all round.
 

Kouriozan

Member
Mar 22, 2012
28,515
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W101 was good and crazy, loving it so much and Bayonetta 2's gameplay is just delicious.
Really hard to choose which one is better so it'll come down to preferences.

Bayonetta (2) is more accessible though and "easier" to pick up and play.
 

Fandangox

Member
Jan 15, 2013
13,272
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0
I feel like the two are too different to quantify as "better than the other".

Bayonetta 2 is much more accessible and the gameplay is top notch for it's control scheme. It does things extremely well within the confines of the traditional action game control scheme. It doesn't push the boundary for the action game genre but it sure as hell sets a high benchmark for all action games from here on out.

The Wonderful 101 pushes the boundaries of the action game genre and is extremely innovative in it's control scheme and combat system. It could definitely use more polish, but I find it to be one of the best control schemes out there. It's perfect for what it's trying to accomplish and the drawback of The Wonderful 101 is the extremely high learning curve for people to learn it.

The drawing is not terrible at all and it's something people just aren't used to yet. The combat in W101 is extremely deep and fluid and is only handicapped by the skill needed to pull it off.

Both games do things extremely well and I love both Bayonetta and The Wonderful 101 for what they accomplish. I strongly believe that The Wonderful 101 does compare to Bayonetta as one of the greatest action games out there and people may disagree due to the high learning curve of the controls and it's overall higher difficulty.

I can agree with the bolded. I still thought they were similar enough to draw a comparison and wanted to do it due to it being discussed in that other thread.

Yeah I felt the drawing was pretty good to be honest, like many have said, its more like inputting fighting-games commands.

Bayonetta is more of an action game while W101 is more of an adventure game with all the mini games and different mechanics.

Personally, I wanted a bigger focus on action therefore Bayonetta is superior for me.

This what it boil down for me. I would have said W101 is the better game had it been more focused on its combat mechanics, I do still prefer it over Bayonetta either way.


Bayonetta V Wonderful 101: Dawn of Justice



I was a bit disappointed when I unlocked her, and realized I couldn't use the GOAT gun stinger move with her.
 

Sayter

Member
Sep 20, 2010
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Bayonetta is the all around best action game that allows anyone to get into. But only few can master.

W101 is for only the truest of true hardcore action game fanatics.
 

FlashbladeGAF

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Sep 11, 2006
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Man, I need a better webm hosting place that pomf.se

Anyway, having played through Bayonetta 2, I might write something up tonight about the differences between the two games and why people can more easily gravitate towards Bayo 2's mechanics than W101's.

Bayonetta is an evolved version of a PS2 game. Of course it's going to be easy to pick up and play.

W101 although part of the same genre, it's main mechanic is something fairly new in terms of usage.

If you think of the drawing mechanic as fighting game inputs (joystick motion for hadouken = wonder gun) makes the game a lot more easier to handle when using the right stick as your input device.

W101 has a learning curve because it's something new. We've all had to over come it, whether it be the jump to 2d-3d, analog, dual-analogue and 8+ buttons on a controller.
You don't have to overcome the curve, but your not doing yourself any favors if you give up before you've even tried. Sometimes learning something new takes longer than a demo or a couple levels.