Because We Can't Have Nice Things: Scribblenauts Racism! Breaking!

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edgefusion

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What's with all the hyper-sensitvity? It's a watermelon in a DS game not the second coming of slavery. The way some of you are going on you'd think Scribblenauts was developed by the KKK.
 

Ironballs

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RSLAEV said:
No it's a shit post and you could have said it yourself but it probably wouldn't have sucked any less.



Translation: I am a white person and I feel I have been a victim of reverse racism. I just arrived on this planet 20 some odd years ago-I wasn't out there whipping negores in fields or decimating american indian populations why do all these people with non-lily white skin tones get all in my face whenever I say something that *they* decide offends them. I'm offended because I feel like my speech is being controlled by the whimsies and emotions of a group of people I've done no harm to.





Even when I explain to them plainly and logically why they *shouldn't* be offended, they still are, in fact it tends to make some of them even angrier for some reason!


You don't get to live in a bubble, and you don't get to live outside of history. A lot of fucked up shit happened those minority/de facto victim's ("Minority/defacto victim?" what the fucking fuck?) and that means baggage that you have to deal with like it or not. You can't walk into a multicultural society and tread on old wounds because 'Racism is over and we should all just get over it"


I'm not expecting some kind of recall or apology from the developer, even I can see it as an easy to miss oversight given the amount of work put into the game. But the Anti-PC crowd that poured into this thread is just grinding the shit out of my fucking gears. "I don't want to have to think about what I say to a black person, I just want to say it! but these negroes are so damn uppity they'll tell you that every 3rd word out of your mouth is racist! I'm pretty sure they're just making this shit up to get back at me for something other white people did 30 or 40 years ago, but hey that's not *my* fault.

You really think that your right to say some innocuous word is more important than whatever connotations that word might have for another group of people? Do you really think you don't have to be sensitive to tragedies because they happened before you were born? Are you really that immature? that naive?
Good stuff.

Corto said:
yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda... You're not just saying that you are right you're depicting people that don't agree with you in a embarrassing (to you) satyrical way as hidden racists that are still in the closet as some ogres that use terms as negroes and yearn of the good ol' times... And that shows your insecurity, because you need to demonize people with different opinions of yours in order to answer to their different points of view. Just like infants do.
That's quite the leap you made there. There's a pretty big difference between ignorance and being a closet racist. Come on, now.
 

Kimosabae

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Ca1amity said:
Kotaku edited two sentences or something in their article along with adjusting the title of the piece. Both of these edits reduce the inflammatory nature of the writing.



To sensationalize something is to provoke interest/excitement at the expense of accuracy. I did no such thing. Please go back and read my OP, not just the title, before you start telling me what I was trying to do. You'll notice that this race thing is one point among a few I raised and not the one I really wanted to get at in the first place.



Welcome to every first page about everything on GAF. Thats not unique or new.

Accuracy has nothing to do with the definition of sensationalism. Inaccurate reporting is libel or slander and can simply be an epiphenomenon of sensationalist writings (or vice versa). Sensationalist writing simply serves its purpose to arouse emotions, regardless of any innate truth elements. Look up the definition. Your title (definitely) and entire original post fits (IMO).

But even if we took your definition: what is the OP trying to express? That Joystiq and Kotaku initially tried reporting 5th Cell as being racist/ignorant/insensitive and failed? Where are these inaccuracies??

Unless you can find those "edited" sentences you keep vaguely referring to and brushing aside for support, you'd have a hard time trying to get me to believe that.

Kotaku/Joystiq represent eager journalism here, no doubt, but I find it hard to blame them for that, being a business and all.

Your OP resembles every one of those knee-jerk reactions on the first page, just less terse and effective in portraying a mob mentality.
 

theprojectdan

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Night_Trekker said:
I can't believe I'm reading this crap from someone so obviously intelligent (and one of my favorite posters to boot).

You are demanding perfection from the people who work at 5th Cell. It would take a completely perfect creature with an eternity of development time to foresee every possible reaction and interpretation that any gamer in the world could draw from the items spawned in Scribblenauts. Human beings are not perfect.

This isn't about racism. This is about a completely insane and ass-backwards mindset a frightening number of supposedly intelligent people in America condone and encourage which goes: if someone (especially someone with a skin tone that is anything other than lily-white, which makes them a minority and also, apparently, a de facto "victim") feels offended by something, that person has been slighted and is entitled to an apology (at the very least). It doesn't matter if the thought process of the person taking offense is completely flawed and irrational. It doesn't matter if the the complaint is based on nothing at all. It doesn't matter if any offense was actually intended or foreseen, despite all efforts to foresee and squash problems.

It's total bullshit. This is what happens with irrational feelings are granted so much importance that they somehow trump logic and reality.

There are people in the world who think their feelings are so important, even an obviously false interpretation of a situation demands a fawning apology (and validation of a totally paranoid, frothing-at-the-mouth-crazy worldview). And you are defending them.

And the great evil of a mindset such as this is that it implies that a situation such as this cannot occur in which it was all a mistake, or a misunderstanding or a coincidence. It implies a person making such an accusation is infallible and has no burden of proof at all when bringing such accusations. It implies that everyone and everything in existence is suspect, even if one has no reason at all to suspect them. To condone this is to condone and perpetuate a knee-jerk mindset born of fear and ignorance.

For the people who are going to parrot the same irrational and tired "arguments": bigotry clearly does exist. It is not something we can "work past" as a species. It is a byproduct of genetic hard-wiring. It always has existed and it always will. It's a terrible thing, one of the worst aspects of humanity. In every case in which it is clearly present, it should be battled and discouraged to the best of our ability.

But taking offense at something does not mean the person taking offense has a valid case. Sometimes the party at fault is the one claiming to find fault in others.

I blame capitalism for this, partly. Any time someone cries racism, the people who want our money scramble to run damage control and appease possible customers. They don't care about truth. All they care about is their bottom line. The whiners are validated and know that next time, all they have to do is claim to take offense and they get their way. And the cycle continues. I will be very disappointed if 5th Cell bows to this pressure.
RSLAEV said:
No it's a shit post and you could have said it yourself but it probably wouldn't have sucked any less.

Translation: I am a white person and I feel I have been a victim of reverse racism. I just arrived on this planet 20 some odd years ago-I wasn't out there whipping negores in fields or decimating american indian populations why do all these people with non-lily white skin tones get all in my face whenever I say something that *they* decide offends them. I'm offended because I feel like my speech is being controlled by the whimsies and emotions of a group of people I've done no harm to.

Even when I explain to them plainly and logically why they *shouldn't* be offended, they still are, in fact it tends to make some of them even angrier for some reason!

You don't get to live in a bubble, and you don't get to live outside of history. A lot of fucked up shit happened those minority/de facto victim's ("Minority/defacto victim?" what the fucking fuck?) and that means baggage that you have to deal with like it or not. You can't walk into a multicultural society and tread on old wounds because 'Racism is over and we should all just get over it"

I'm not expecting some kind of recall or apology from the developer, even I can see it as an easy to miss oversight given the amount of work put into the game. But the Anti-PC crowd that poured into this thread is just grinding the shit out of my fucking gears. "I don't want to have to think about what I say to a black person, I just want to say it! but these negroes are so damn uppity they'll tell you that every 3rd word out of your mouth is racist! I'm pretty sure they're just making this shit up to get back at me for something other white people did 30 or 40 years ago, but hey that's not *my* fault.

You really think that your right to say some innocuous word is more important than whatever connotations that word might have for another group of people? Do you really think you don't have to be sensitive to tragedies because they happened before you were born? Are you really that immature? that naive?
I actually think both posts are right.
 

udivision

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Night_Trekker said:
But taking offense at something does not mean the person taking offense has a valid case. Sometimes the party at fault is the one claiming to find fault in others.
You just had to go and make sense. Too bad there are a lot of people who'll never acknowledge that quote.
 

Ca1amity

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RSLAEV said:
Translation: I am a white person and I feel I have been a victim of reverse racism. I just arrived on this planet 20 some odd years ago-I wasn't out there whipping negores in fields or decimating american indian populations why do all these people with non-lily white skin tones get all in my face whenever I say something that *they* decide offends them. I'm offended because I feel like my speech is being controlled by the whimsies and emotions of a group of people I've done no harm to.
This thread, as fucked up as its gotten, has never been about individuals utilizing offensive words with intent. At that point, you know what youre saying and you *are* being racist or whatever. No one is condoning that and its not the issue.
Yes, I am offended when my speech is controlled by the "whimises and emotions" of any group anywhere. However, I (and any decent member of society should) moderate my speech with deference to social norms and my own morality.

RSLAEV said:
You don't get to live in a bubble, and you don't get to live outside of history. A lot of fucked up shit happened those minority/de facto victim's ("Minority/defacto victim?" what the fucking fuck?) and that means baggage that you have to deal with like it or not. You can't walk into a multicultural society and tread on old wounds because 'Racism is over and we should all just get over it"
No, you dont. You're right. You also dont get to let history dictate present and future. That way lies a complete lack of social progress. Again though, this isnt the issue. No one is saying racism is over.

RSLAEV said:
"I don't want to have to think about what I say to a black person, I just want to say it! but these negroes are so damn uppity they'll tell you that every 3rd word out of your mouth is racist! I'm pretty sure they're just making this shit up to get back at me for something other white people did 30 or 40 years ago, but hey that's not *my* fault.
I dont want to have to think about what i say to a black person. Or a Jew. Or a Muslim. Or an asian. And I dont.
I just speak to them like equal human beings.
Your suggestion of "think before you speak to minorities" itself promotes intolerance and a separation of "self" and "other", not to mention retarding progress to minimizing racism. In short, it offends me. Dont worry.. I wont get "uppity" though.

The actions of any person or group arent the fault of subsequent generations. Too much of our history has been spent performing 'sins of father' type exercises that have done nothing to improve society. That doesnt mean each generation isnt called upon to know and avoid those sins, but your implication that they should carry a burden is wrong.

RSLAEV said:
You really think that your right to say some innocuous word is more important than whatever connotations that word might have for another group of people? Do you really think you don't have to be sensitive to tragedies because they happened before you were born?
A thousand times yes.
The right to free speech is so fundamentally necessary to a free society that yes, it trumps those connotations every time.
However, once again, this isnt the point being argued here.


You've asked so many questions based around an argument that isnt taking place here.
The issue is whether when you type in "sambo" and a fig is generated that looks like a watermelon, the game is portraying something inherently racist and therefore shouldnt be there. Or if when the fig is spawned you the player (because you happen to know about the racially charged definition of "sambo") are placing that meaning on what you see. In that case the game is doing nothing.

Oh, also - the original point of the thread was sensationalism in game journalism etc. But whatever, we're so far gone from that now...
 

fernoca

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And it's always ironic how in many cases, the ones "offended" by something are just in now way related to the offense...

Like with Resident Evil 5, many gamers from Africa had no problems with the game and loved it; yet the debacle started with people outside of Africa....or the thing about Shadow Complex, yet there were many gay men/women that bought and loved the game.....and so on..

Now Scribblenauts? The guy from the blog, Stephen and Brian really felt offended by it? Enough to create headlines about it? Even when the 3 of them are white and the blog-guy admits he was just messing around with words, ignoring the many meaning of the word, and just going direct to the racist remark..

Oh well, whatever floats their boats... as always.
 
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I get the feeling that if this game didn't have a GAF logo in the game or was a fanboy favorite, everyone would be grilling it for how racist it is.

Yes, sambo is a racist term. The word "sambo" is most often associated with racist black stereotypes, not an obscure fruit. I can't believe some of you dumbasses are trying to pretend that this wasn't a fuck up. If you didn't think it is a racist term, then put down the fucking video games and learn how to fix your staggering ignorance.

Fanboy bullshit, I swear...
 

Jackson

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Hi,

I'm the dude who wrote the original "sambo" blog post that Kotaku and Joystiq picked up on. I wanted to apologize for ever posting it, because it seems to have ballooned into something ridiculous. I've been getting tons of contact-form email all day; people calling me a hyper-sensitive liberal, people accusing me of trying to ruin your company, and even some threats. I just thought it was a weird connection and was hoping for a simple explanation, which I got. I didn't mean to put you guys on the defense or create any negative publicity.

I think Scribblenauts is a fantastic, inspiring game. I love language, and you guys have done something amazing here. I've been recommending it to all of my friends, and I hope 5th Cell enjoys tons of success from this. It's a really, really fun game.

Again, I'm sorry. I feel terrible and wish I could take it back.
Well that was nice of him.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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Ca1amity said:
I dont want to have to think about what i say to a black person. Or a Jew. Or a Muslim. Or an asian. And I dont.
I just speak to them like equal human beings.
Your suggestion of "think before you speak to minorities" itself promotes intolerance and a separation of "self" and "other", not to mention retarding progress to minimizing racism. In short, it offends me. Dont worry.. I wont get "uppity" though.

The actions of any person or group arent the fault of subsequent generationsToo much of our history has been spent performing 'sins of father' type exercises that have done nothing to improve society. That doesnt mean each generation isnt called upon to know and avoid those sins, but your implication that they should carry a burden is wrong.

.


Racism and discrimination only happened in "subsequent generations" now?



Ca1amity said:
A thousand times yes.
The right to free speech is so fundamentally necessary to a free society that yes, it trumps those connotations every time.
You can't be serious. So by this logic if I went over to someone I know who is Mexican and called him a "wetback" I should just tell him that "Hey you shouldn't be offended because therefore your progressing free speech and free society."



fernoca said:
And it's always ironic how in many cases, the ones "offended" by something are just in now way related to the offense...

Like with Resident Evil 5, many gamers from Africa had no problems with the game and loved it; yet the debacle started with people outside of Africa....or the thing about Shadow Complex, yet there were many gay men/women that bought and loved the game.....and so on..

Now Scribblenauts? The guy from the blog, Stephen and Brian really felt offended by it? Enough to create headlines about it? Even when the 3 of them are white and the blog-guy admits he was just messing around with words, ignoring the many meaning of the word, and just going direct to the racist remark..

Oh well, whatever floats their boats... as always.
This.


The Experiment said:
I get the feeling that if this game didn't have a GAF logo in the game or was a fanboy favorite, everyone would be grilling it for how racist it is.

Yes, sambo is a racist term. The word "sambo" is most often associated with racist black stereotypes, not an obscure fruit. I can't believe some of you dumbasses are trying to pretend that this wasn't a fuck up. If you didn't think it is a racist term, then put down the fucking video games and learn how to fix your staggering ignorance.

Fanboy bullshit, I swear...
As I've said before. 5th Cell probably just copied and pasted dictionary definitions to all of the games objects.
 

lopaz

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The Experiment said:
I get the feeling that if this game didn't have a GAF logo in the game or was a fanboy favorite, everyone would be grilling it for how racist it is.

Yes, sambo is a racist term. The word "sambo" is most often associated with racist black stereotypes, not an obscure fruit. I can't believe some of you dumbasses are trying to pretend that this wasn't a fuck up. If you didn't think it is a racist term, then put down the fucking video games and learn how to fix your staggering ignorance.

Fanboy bullshit, I swear...
I hear you can also summon a "spade".
 

TheSeks

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Isn't there a dance style called the sambo? I have heard of the term, but never in the racist context. Odd.
 
Oct 25, 2006
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Htown said:
The thing that actually offends me isn't Scribblenauts, it's the fact that nobody here seems to know that Sambo is a racist term.
DrFunk said:
Like other posters have said, the sad thing is not many people in America know it's a racist term.
I am totally fine with old racist terminology falling into disuse. I was familiar with the racist term "sambo" before this thread, because, you know, I pay attention. However, if you are aware of this country's tragic history of exploiting and oppressing black people, and you treat other human beings with the same level of dignity and respect regardless of their race or culture, then I don't think it should matter if you know as many racial slurs as I do.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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TheSeks said:
Isn't there a dance style called the sambo? I have heard of the term, but never in the racist context. Odd.
I think you mean the samba.

Can a mod please lock this thread.

This is thread is nothing but pointless head butting from two groups who aren't even on the same page of the argument. And as these arguments proceed more and more ignorance is released making the head butting even harder.
 

Ca1amity

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Flying_Phoenix said:
Racism and discrimination only happened in "subsequent generations" now?
Well subsequent means "later" so no, racism and discrimination doesnt only happen in the future.
My point was that you shouldnt be blamed for the fact your grandfather was a bigot and a racist. You learn learn from his example what not to do, but thats it.

Flying_Phoenix said:
You can't be serious. So by this logic if I went over to someone I know who is Mexican and called him a "wetback" I should just tell him that "Hey you shouldn't be offended because therefore your progressing free speech and free society."
Wow. Just wow. Youre either purposefully taking what I say out of context or you're not reading what I write.
My point here is that while I'd never call a Jew a 'kike', there is absolutely no way I'd accept legislation or a campaign of social pressure that said "you CAN NOT say that word". That's a restriction of free speech and that sort of thinking marks the seemingly "good/just" jumping off point down a terrifying slippery slope.

Flying_Phoenix said:
As I've said before. 5th Cell probably just copied and pasted dictionary definitions to all of the games objects.
True. This does nothing to support either side of this ridiculous argument though.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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Ca1amity said:
Well subsequent means "later" so no, racism and discrimination doesnt only happen in the future.
My point was that you shouldnt be blamed for the fact your grandfather was a bigot and a racist. You learn learn from his example what not to do, but thats it.
I'm sorry for misreading "subsequent".

My point is that whether you like it or not, racism is still very present in modern America (I could give examples but I'll just assume that they are so blatantly obvious that I don't need to). Words like "Nigger" go far beyond the old slave terminology they were originally given years ago. These words are now used to define black's (or what ever race) to be the parasites of society, which is why they have stood their time in aggressive vocabulary for so long. You're taking the origins of these words too literally. NO ONE is implying that you should take on baggage from 300 years ago, people are implying that you should be respectful to other ethnicities and what not as they still find those words offensive due to the fact that they immediately bring upon memories of discrimination from both the past and present. That is in no way, shape, or form by any stretch imagination carrying on baggage.

If you want an example of baggage of whites from their forefathers than just turn on BET and see the mass culture accept offensive racial jokes against the whites on Comic View, and are brought up and told to not be bothered by it. THAT is baggage and white guilt because you're being discriminated against and are told to nothing. However being told to not being able to say a word due to it will offend someone, for very logical reasoning I might add, isn't baggage or white guilt.

Ca1amity said:
Wow. Just wow. Youre either purposefully taking what I say out of context or you're not reading what I write.
My point here is that while I'd never call a Jew a 'kike', there is absolutely no way I'd accept legislation or a campaign of social pressure that said "you CAN NOT say that word". That's a restriction of free speech and that sort of thinking marks the seemingly "good/just" jumping off point down a terrifying slippery slope.
But other people do put people like that through that kind of discrimination. What's so hard to understand about this? And in what way did I take your post out of context? You just said right here that you think that you shouldn't feel pressure from society to not being able to say a certain word despite it being offensive to others due to the current situation of the world.



Ca1amity said:
True. This does nothing to support either side of this ridiculous argument though.
I wasn't responding to you with that post.
 
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