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Drama Cringe Ben Shapiro on Unity and Tolerance in these troubling times.

Jul 4, 2020
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His "unity"
 
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O-N-E

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His "unity"

 

IFireflyl

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His "unity"

"Ben Shapiro, 23, is a graduate of UCLA and Harvard Law School."
  1. He was only 23 at the time of writing this.
  2. That was 13 years ago.
  3. He is Jewish.
  4. He wasn't wrong.



The last link in particular is of note because the first two are Israeli and Jewish-operated websites which could be subject to bias. The last one is L.A. Times. This is what that 2015 article states:

Since early last month, more than 80 attacks by Palestinians have claimed the lives of a dozen Israelis and wounded nearly 200. The perpetrators, generally “lone wolves,” have commandeered kitchen knives or cars en route to stabbing or running over as many civilians and soldiers as they could until being disabled or killed themselves.

Struck by the difference between these incidents and the well-orchestrated shootings, suicide bombings and rocket attacks aimed at Israelis over the last decade and a half, commentators have focused on the motivations of the individual attackers or on a campaign of incitement by Palestinian leaders. Glaringly absent from the discussion, however, is a serious attempt to understand the perspectives of ordinary Palestinians, and how those views might shape the atmosphere in which teenagers decide to become “suicide knifers,” and politicians and clerics who feel comfortable leveling seemingly outrageous accusations against Israel.

Yet Palestinian public opinion is not a mystery. Many reputable experts have conducted surveys in the West Bank and Gaza Strip since the Israel-PLO accords of 1993. Over the last year, I headed a research team that analyzed public opinion about Jews, Israel, peace and violence as reflected in more than 350 surveys carried out by four Palestinian institutes and half a dozen international pollsters.

The bottom line is all too easy to state: The recent attacks reflect a perspective widely shared in Palestinian society, which sees such actions as morally justified and worthy of support.

This worldview is built in part on a fundamental rejection of a Jewish connection to the historical land of Israel. In a 2011 Greenberg Quinlan Rosner survey conducted for the Israel Project, Palestinians were asked whether it was morally right or wrong to deny that “Jews have a long history in Jerusalem going back thousands of years.” Seventy-two percent said it was right. In parallel, 90% deemed it wrong to deny that Palestinian history in Jerusalem goes back thousands of years. In a 2015 survey by David Pollock of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, 83% of Palestinians asserted — regarding the area from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea — that “this is Palestinian land and Jews have no rights to it”; only 12% agreed that “both Jews and Palestinians have rights to the land.”

Most Palestinians also believe Israel wants to drive them out entirely, especially from the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, where the Al-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock stand. Since Israel captured this area in 1967, Muslims have been allowed to visit it and pray at its mosques regularly, while Jews are restricted in their visits, have no place for group worship and are forbidden from praying there. Last year, a few Israeli politicians proposed relaxing these restrictions, but Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu repeatedly declared the status quo would not change, and his government has acted accordingly.

Yet when the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, known as PSR, asked on four occasions about Israel’s intentions, 20% of Palestinians said Israel would allow Jews to establish a synagogue next to Al-Aqsa mosque, and a stunning 51% declared that Israel would “destroy Al-Aqsa and Dome of the Rock mosques and build a synagogue in their place.”

The combination, as Palestinians see it, of a lack of a Jewish claim to the land with Israel’s imagined, diabolical plans to dispossess the Arabs provides fertile ground for justifying radical actions. This helps explain Palestinian rejection of the pejorative “terrorism” to describe Arab attacks on Israelis.

In a December 2001 poll, 98% labeled as terrorism Baruch Goldstein’s killing of 29 Palestinians in Hebron in 1994, but only 15% applied that term to Palestinian suicide bombings that killed 21 Israelis at a Tel Aviv nightclub in 2001. This attitude carries over to attacks on Westerners more generally, as 53% of Palestinians declined to call the 9/11 attacks terrorism. And, according to the Arab Barometer, a project of American and Middle Eastern universities and research centers, similar majorities refused to apply that term to the deadly attacks by Islamists a few years later in Madrid and London.

Palestinians’ readiness to justify attacks on civilians also emerges from surveys of Muslim countries by the Pew Research Center. In six polls during the last decade, an average of 59% of Palestinians backed the view that “suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets are justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies” — making them the pacesetters on that question in every survey.

Since the Jerusalem Media and Communications Center began asking Palestinians in 2001, “How do you feel toward suicide-bombing operations against Israeli civilians?” support has exceeded opposition by an average of 20 points. In a December 2014 PSR poll that prefigured the recent attacks, 78% expressed support for the “increase in Jerusalem and the rest of the West Bank in attempts to stab or run over Israelis.”

Depressing as they are, these results can neither be dismissed nor wished away. The pollsters responsible for them follow best practices in designing and carrying out their surveys, have replicated one another’s findings and have revealed a pattern largely consistent for a decade and a half. Far from acting alone, today’s perpetrators are reflecting attitudes in their communities that have become entrenched over time. The process of altering them can only begin once they are recognized for what they are: a potent obstacle to a peaceful resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

According to the L.A. Times article Ben Shapiro was right. He just said it 8 years earlier, and he didn't have surveys or statistics when he made his claim. The Palestinians, at least up until 2015 when the L.A. Times article was written, did not find that their own Palestinian suicide bombings were terrorist attacks. More than half wouldn't call the 9/11 attacks terrorism. Only 15% of Palestinians considered the nightclub suicide bombing in Tel Aviv to be an act of terrorism. Ben Shapiro calling out a group of people that is okay with terrorism doesn't mean he is against unity. Unity only works when both parties want it, and the Palestinian people (not their government) didn't consider the suicide bombings or 9/11 to be an act of terrorism. How do you propose people unify with a culture that thinks that way?

P.S. I'm not speaking ill of present-day Palestine or Palestinians. I don't know what has changed since 2015. I only did enough research to determine that you were wrong to attack Ben Shapiro for something that occurred more than a decade ago, and you apparently didn't do any research to determine if the things he said were (in the context of the time and cultural setting he was in when he said these things) justified or not. In 2015 the Palestinians largely did not consider 9/11 to be an act of terrorism. That alone tells me Ben Shapiro was right at the time in which he wrote that article.
 
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JLB

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Quite simplistic view from Ben Shapiro.
Most of the times there's not just "two sides". You'll find cohorts of people with every possible combination in regards of taxes, abortion, climate change, 2nd amendment, etc.
 

O-N-E

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"Ben Shapiro, 23, is a graduate of UCLA and Harvard Law School."
  1. He was only 23 at the time of writing this.
  2. That was 13 years ago.
  3. He is Jewish.
  4. He wasn't wrong.



The last link in particular is of note because the first two are Israeli and Jewish-operated websites which could be subject to bias. The last one is L.A. Times. This is what that 2015 article states:



According to the L.A. Times article Ben Shapiro was right. He just said it 8 years earlier, and he didn't have surveys or statistics when he made his claim. The Palestinians, at least up until 2015 when the L.A. Times article was written, did not find that their own Palestinian suicide bombings were terrorist attacks. More than half wouldn't call the 9/11 attacks terrorism. Only 15% of Palestinians considered the nightclub suicide bombing in Tel Aviv to be an act of terrorism. Ben Shapiro calling out a group of people that is okay with terrorism doesn't mean he is against unity. Unity only works when both parties want it, and the Palestinian people (not their government) didn't consider the suicide bombings or 9/11 to be an act of terrorism. How do you propose people unify with a culture that thinks that way?

P.S. I'm not speaking ill of present-day Palestine or Palestinians. I don't know what has changed since 2015. I only did enough research to determine that you were wrong to attack Ben Shapiro for something that occurred more than a decade ago, and you apparently didn't do any research to determine if the things he said were (in the context of the time and cultural setting he was in when he said these things) justified or not. In 2015 the Palestinians largely did not consider 9/11 to be an act of terrorism. That alone tells me Ben Shapiro was right at the time in which he wrote that article.

That irrelevant sad distraction post was not worth a real response, but good on you for curb stomping it.
 

Halo is Dead

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I don't think Ben is a bad guy but realistically if you run a political channel you probably don't have much weight in calling for unity and tolerance. Also, I don't like these street talk videos. They can be easily edited to make people look dumb or just bad.
 

O-N-E

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I don't think Ben is a bad guy but realistically if you run a political channel you probably don't have much weight in calling for unity and tolerance. Also, I don't like these street talk videos. They can be easily edited to make people look dumb or just bad.

You think the people saying they wouldn’t compromise are being misrepresented and would actually compromise?
 

kittoo

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Apr 11, 2007
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"Ben Shapiro, 23, is a graduate of UCLA and Harvard Law School."
  1. He was only 23 at the time of writing this.
  2. That was 13 years ago.
  3. He is Jewish.
  4. He wasn't wrong.



The last link in particular is of note because the first two are Israeli and Jewish-operated websites which could be subject to bias. The last one is L.A. Times. This is what that 2015 article states:



According to the L.A. Times article Ben Shapiro was right. He just said it 8 years earlier, and he didn't have surveys or statistics when he made his claim. The Palestinians, at least up until 2015 when the L.A. Times article was written, did not find that their own Palestinian suicide bombings were terrorist attacks. More than half wouldn't call the 9/11 attacks terrorism. Only 15% of Palestinians considered the nightclub suicide bombing in Tel Aviv to be an act of terrorism. Ben Shapiro calling out a group of people that is okay with terrorism doesn't mean he is against unity. Unity only works when both parties want it, and the Palestinian people (not their government) didn't consider the suicide bombings or 9/11 to be an act of terrorism. How do you propose people unify with a culture that thinks that way?

P.S. I'm not speaking ill of present-day Palestine or Palestinians. I don't know what has changed since 2015. I only did enough research to determine that you were wrong to attack Ben Shapiro for something that occurred more than a decade ago, and you apparently didn't do any research to determine if the things he said were (in the context of the time and cultural setting he was in when he said these things) justified or not. In 2015 the Palestinians largely did not consider 9/11 to be an act of terrorism. That alone tells me Ben Shapiro was right at the time in which he wrote that article.

It's not tough to 'see' the point of view of most people in most Islamic 'resistance' societies (or Muslims in general in quite a few socities), be they be in Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya or anywhere where they are fighting against people of another religion. The main cause and driving force of their 'resistance' is always Islam and their desire of 'Dar-ul-Islam'. They hate the infidels and want them out. Yeah there can be secondary causes and grievances, just like anywhere else, but the main driving force is always religion only.

And they are pretty clear about it. They say so in the interviews, they say so in the surveys, they shout it at every Friday sermon and from loudspeakers (when minority Hindus were made to flee kashmir in 1989, this is what they used to shout from loudspeakers in mosques- 'convert, leave or die', 'we don't want Hindu men in Kashmir, only their women').

As you show, survey after survey will show this, but leftists and media will focus on all other possible secondary level grievances and issues and causes (unemployment, poverty, reaction to military oppression) but not look at the elephant in the room. And so the dance goes on.
 
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Halo is Dead

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You think the people saying they wouldn’t compromise are being misrepresented and would actually compromise?
I didn't say that. I said I normally don't like these style of videos. Old lady could have come up with something better later on but it's very easy not to add that in. I simply don't put a lot of faith in them.
 
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O-N-E

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I didn't say that. I said I normally don't like these style of videos. Old lady could have come up with something better later on but it's very easy not to add that in. I simply don't put a lot of faith in them.

It's true that it's possibly not representative of the pop in general, but it's up to the individual to see how the pieces fit together. What they're saying is in line with how their political representatives act.
 
Jul 26, 2009
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I didn't say that. I said I normally don't like these style of videos. Old lady could have come up with something better later on but it's very easy not to add that in. I simply don't put a lot of faith in them.
True you didn't say that. But you implied it without explicitly stating your thoughts on the content that is under discussion. Your posts are likened to concern troll behavior tbh
 
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Halo is Dead

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True you didn't say that. But you implied it without explicitly stating your actual thoughts on the content that is under discussion.
 
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Halo is Dead

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Really? That's your reply? You could at least state why you think I'm wrong for thinking this.
You're wrong because you make a baseless assumption about my internal feelings and political beliefs based off of one post. My opinion comes from my experience as a video editor and watching many of these styles of videos. I don't hate Ben and agree with him on some things but this really isn't the content to be making about unity and tolerance at this time in America when the video is solely featuring a small group of only liberals.
 
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Meicyn

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Ah I know him! "Owning the libtards with facts and with logic", right?

Mothers Day Lol GIF by reactionseditor
Yep, he’s a loser. He made his mark by going to universities to “debate” with teenagers and fell apart at the first sign of real resistance when he went on the BBC and was interviewed by a conservative who was playing devil’s advocate by using liberal talking points in order to get Shapiro to effectively defend his positions. Shapiro melted like butter.

Then there’s the whole WAP “controversy“ where we experienced the 90s all over again. I half expected him to bring up videogame violence and join Hillary Clinton/Joe Lieberman on a crusade to save the children.
 

QSD

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I didn't say that. I said I normally don't like these style of videos. Old lady could have come up with something better later on but it's very easy not to add that in. I simply don't put a lot of faith in them.
I agree with this. Ben has been solid on the whole capitol siege thing but yeah... I could take a train to Berlin today, go out and conduct interviews with people about conservatism and edit the 20 hottest takes together under the title "GERMAN PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR GODDAMN MINDS" which might be entertaining to some, but isn't representative in any way of public opinion in Germany in general.

In his capitol siege video Ben said Donald Trump wasn't guilty of inciting but was definitely guilty of 'raising the temperature' which, ironically, is the only thing a video like this achieves.
 
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Halo is Dead

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I agree with this. Ben has been solid on the whole capitol siege thing but yeah... I could take a train to Berlin today, go out and conduct interviews with people about conservatism and edit the 20 hottest takes together under the title "GERMAN PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR GODDAMN MINDS" which might be entertaining to some, but isn't representative in any way of public opinion in Germany in general.

In his capitol siege video Ben said Donald Trump wasn't guilty of inciting but was definitely guilty of 'raising the temperature' which, ironically, is the only thing a video like this achieves.
Yep. You can't fundamentally change what people say but you can paint a narrative that fits your agenda for your political audience. It would have been nice to see more people and of different political spectrums in the video. This is why I have decided to stop watching political channels.
 

O-N-E

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Good job with a flyby irrelevant shitpost.

If you care for some reality, he was barraged in that video with super old tweets of his one after another after he already said he's addressed all those things in a convenient list he made which the interviewer himself could have and probably did already see. So Ben clearly saw this as a disingenuous convo at best and very possibly a character assassination attempt based on shit he already addressed ages ago. He lost his cool and left. Don't know if it was the best move, but it's understandable.

And even if that was not the case and he actually fully ate shit during a completely straight forward debate, so what? He's been on TV plenty of times kicking ass, he's allowed to fail once or twice at least, lol.

Freaking weirdos that have this obsession with him. BUT THAT ONE INTERVIEW THO. teehee.
 
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