Bernie Sanders town hall on Fox News

betrayal

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For me the whole speech is just too orchestrated in almost everything he does. When he's turning to the audience, gestures etc. and it's lacking real arguments. He's cherry-picking examples and generalizes everything. I seriously hope there will be some kind of savior for the democrats, with a brain, arguments and a real plan. I would appreciate it.

Also a good one: "This is a critizism of media in general. There's too much focus on individuals and not enough focus on the american people and what their needs are."

After they got fucked again and again by Trump and their own stupidity they're making a 180 on their strategy for 2020. If they would just admit that they acted like shit and need to change they instantly would have better chances in 2020.
 
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Rentahamster

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For me the whole speech is just too orchestrated in almost everything he does. When he's turning to the audience, gestures etc. and it's lacking real arguments. He's cherry-picking examples and generalizes everything. I seriously hope there will be some kind of savior for the democrats, with a brain, arguments and a real plan. I would appreciate it.
Arguments you disagree with are still arguments.
 

Trey

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After they got fucked again and again by Trump and their own stupidity they're making a 180 on their strategy for 2020. If they would just admit that they acted like shit and need to change they instantly would have better chances in 2020.
Running against an unpopular president is a well worn strategy.
 

Rentahamster

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Running against an unpopular president is a well worn strategy.
Using that as their main strategy is a loser for Democrats, especially if they don't understand why people voted for him or if they underestimate his popularity.
Correct. That's why i said i hope their will be other democrats...with arguments.
Is there an argument from a Democrat so far that you like the most?
 

Yoshi

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Running against an unpopular president is a well worn strategy.
"I'm not Trump" is one of three main selling points of Clinton though (others being "I am female" and "I have been doing this for a long time"). I have a feeling "I am not Trump" is not the message to win over. Luckily, Sanders's main message certainly is not that.
 

RokkanStoned

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Really great of Bernie. Better to get yourself in focus and getting on Fox News early gives you all the attention and allows you to much easier try to sway people over to you. It sets you out amongst the crowd and shows potential and drive towards winning. It also shows that you're no slacker.
 

betrayal

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Running against an unpopular president is a well worn strategy.
If you get elected president of the US, then he's probably not so unpopular as you would think. Sounds logical to me, doesn't it?


Is there an argument from a Democrat so far that you like the most?
No, because they too afraid to speak the truth. In general they promote minorities by putting them in victim groups and they try to keep people dumb by making them think they're not responsible for their own life, even if they live in in of the wealthiest countries by many standards.
 
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Trey

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If you get elected president of the US, then he's probably not so unpopular as you would think. Sounds logical to me, doesn't it?
No, he's pretty unpopular by most metrics. And that's with an economy most Americans think is decent. He certainly has his dedicated base, and he certainly can win reelection as the incumbent, but the Dems will absolutely dunk on him and his presidency and message why they feel their politics will be better for Americans.
 

Joe T.

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I thought Bernie did fine, nowhere near as great as some reactions I've seen elsewhere claimed. Just the fact that he showed up on Fox News was admirable. It was amusing how quickly he distanced himself from the 70% tax AOC was pushing while making sure to avoid using her name - no love whatsoever for the fellow socialist. He did an okay job of explaining medicare for all, which I think he'll need to improve, and Brett Baier polling the crowd to see how many of them would be open to switching from their private/work health insurance to single payer probably didn't go as he had hoped.

I like that he was criticizing media coverage as a whole, not just Fox News, and his remark about the Dems needing to be proposing policies that the American public can get behind rather than simply being anti-Trump... except he didn't do a whole lot to shed light on how he'll go about implementing his policies and wasn't exactly shying away from being anti-Trump either. Like almost everyone else currently in the race, aside from maybe Warren, Bernie wasn't being all that specific. That's going to have to change by the end of June when the debates get underway.

I'm not as excited about Bernie 2020 as I was Bernie 2016. Maybe it's because I expected his messaging to improve, he was running against someone as unlikable as Hillary or because Trump's performed better than expected while facing intense opposition from all directions. Most of the other Dem candidates are on the crazy train as far as I'm concerned, so that definitely isn't a factor.
 

Rentahamster

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Great example of distorted reality.
If you need a hug, let me know.
And how are you so confident in your grasp of reality? It can both be true at the same time that Trump is both unpopular in certain metrics, and popular with his base. You both differ in which aspects of that reality you give more weight to.
 

betrayal

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And how are you so confident in your grasp of reality? It can both be true at the same time that Trump is both unpopular in certain metrics, and popular with his base. You both differ in which aspects of that reality you give more weight to.
I know what you mean, but Trump has won an election and most likely will win another in 2020. There's no indicators here to act like the majority does not like him, because the numbers do not support that claim. Our perceived reality is based on our interpretation of events. But there a certain things and events that can exclude specific interpretations right from the beginning if you believe in things our lives are built on, i.e. mathematics, biology, physics etc..

Besides that what you're saying ("Trump is,,,unpopular in certain metrics...") is not what @Trey was saying ("Running against an unpopular president") and what i was referring to.
 

Trey

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I know what you mean, but Trump has won an election and most likely will win another in 2020. There's no indicators here to act like the majority does not like him, because the numbers do not support that claim. Our perceived reality is based on our interpretation of events. But there a certain things and events that can exclude specific interpretations right from the beginning if you believe in things our lives are built on, i.e. mathematics, biology, physics etc..

Besides that what you're saying ("Trump is,,,unpopular in certain metrics...") is not what @Trey was saying ("Running against an unpopular president") and what i was referring to.
No, he is generally unpopular. Almost historically unpopular. This is just a fact. And that fact is why I said Dems will run consistent messaging against him pointing to things that contribute to his unpopularity. But Trump is still the incumbent, and just because he's unpopular doesn't mean he still can't win.

It's logically consistent. Keep your hug.
 

Joe T.

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No, he's pretty unpopular by most metrics. And that's with an economy most Americans think is decent. He certainly has his dedicated base, and he certainly can win reelection as the incumbent, but the Dems will absolutely dunk on him and his presidency and message why they feel their politics will be better for Americans.
You have to keep in mind that the mainstream media has gone to unprecedented lengths to smear Trump. The misleading stories and outright lies, which all put him in a negative light, get repeated so often and by so many different sources that many people wind up accepting them as truth, so it's surprising he's managed to withstand the storm as well as he has. The country is being deceived and all for what? If Trump was as bad as they say he is this ongoing smear campaign wouldn't be necessary. He's easy enough to criticize without the fabricated stories.

If Bernie remains competitive after the first debate I guarantee you the media will weigh him down, too. The Dems have gone above and beyond in proving that they'll do whatever it takes to win. Bernie may be running as a Democrat, but he's not one of them.
 
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JORMBO

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I watched this yesterday hoping he was going to give answers that had a little bit of substance. I’ve always thought his ideas sound great, just not realistic.

He started off being a little rude towards the hosts and Fox. Bret actually had to say to him that they were being giving him a platform and wanted hear what he had to say and he seemed to dial it back after that.

When asked things like how he was going to pay for his healthcare plan he just mentioned that no one would pay premiums or deductibles. Sounds great, but didn’t explain how people giving less money for healthcare is going to pay for Medicare for all. They pressed him on tax increases to pay for it and he said taxes would go up, but provided no details and moved on.

There were a few times where instead of going into details on his ideas he attacked Trump instead. Again I was hoping to hear more details about his policies rather then just an attack filled with a bunch of buzzwords used to make an audience clap.

I respect him for going on Fox and was actually looking forward to watching this a lot. At the end of the whole thing I don’t feel I really learned much more about his policies and the whole thing felt like a waste of an hour. I thought Howard Shultz did a much better job explaining where he stands on policy at the town hall they did with him the other week.
 
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Yoshi

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When asked things like how he was going to pay for his healthcare plan he just mentioned that no one would pay premiums or deductibles. Sounds great, but didn’t explain how people giving less money for healthcare is going to pay for Medicare for all. They pressed him on tax increases to pay for it and he said taxes would go up, but provided no details and moved on.
He did say by tax increases though? He just said that these tax increases (for most people) would be much less than they are paying now for health insurance premiums. This indicates he would increase income tax to pay for it. But since Sanders also wants to increase taxes on speculative gains, the cost may also be offset in part by that.

Taxes are not bound to fixed usage and Sanders has two major cost drivers in his policies (free education and free healthcare), which overall need to be paid for. He also has two major sources of additional income (higher income taxes for better-earning persons and higher taxes on wallstreet profits). That is much more detail than Trump has given in how he wants to make up for the lost income from his tax break for the rich even now, after the law has been passed.
 
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JORMBO

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He did say by tax increases though? He just said that these tax increases (for most people) would be much less than they are paying now for health insurance premiums. This indicates he would increase income tax to pay for it. But since Sanders also wants to increase taxes on speculative gains, the cost may also be offset in part by that.

Taxes are not bound to fixed usage and Sanders has two major cost drivers in his policies (free education and free healthcare), which overall need to be paid for. He also has two major sources of additional income (higher income taxes for better-earning persons and higher taxes on wallstreet profits). That is much more detail than Trump has given in how he wants to make up for the lost income from his tax break for the rich even now, after the law has been passed.
It’s the last three minutes of video 1. I was hoping he would go into some details there because I am still feeling a bit skeptical about what he is saying. A lot of studies have shown his ideas would be very costly to implement.

I’d be interested in knowing how much all of my taxes would go up from something like this so I could compare to what I pay for healthcare now. Taxing the rich more isn’t going to be the magic solution, so things are going to hit us middle class people one way or another.
 
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AmaiMask

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In order for Dems to ever be taken seriously as a party again there are a few core things that need to happen. First, the Leftists within their ranks need to learn their place & understand that America will always be a fiercely capitalistic country, period. Communism is a objectively worse in every way possible to capitalism as it fails to understand and capitalize on human nature. They need to fully comprehend and appreciate that fact & give proper respect to the system, regardless of its faults.

Also, Dems need to reign in their SJWs and stop with this self-righteous, zealous outrage culture. SJWs and their influence is arguably one of the worst things to happen to this country & it needs to come to an end. Once these two things happen then Democrats will be a real party again that can lead this nation.

I see Trump and the alt-right as chemotherapy to help cleanse this country of cancerous SJW/Leftist influence and set things back on track. Only after Trump's 2nd term and Dems humble themselves should they be given a chance to lead again.
 
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Outreach to the other side is important, and I'm disappointed in the DNC that they don't see that.
You shouldn't be surprised. For the establishment on the left, outreach and falling in line is a one way street:
‘Stop Sanders’ Democrats Are Agonizing Over His Momentum

It's a lot like Pres. Trump and the GOP establishment in 2016. Bernie's momentum will have to overwhelm those working to "stop" him if he hopes to win the primary. I hope he doesn't come up short like last time because I want to see what he can do competing against Pres. Trump and his message.
 
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No, he is generally unpopular. Almost historically unpopular. This is just a fact.
Wrong. He's at 45% per Gallup. Obama's, at the same point in their respective tenure, was at 43%. You aren't very good at facts.

“President Trump’s job approval rating increased relatively sharply over the past month to 45% in an April 1-9 Gallup poll, up from 39% in March. This marks the third time the 45th president has reached a 45% job approval rating in Gallup trends — his highest in the series,” wrote Gallup analyst Justin McCarthy.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/apr/15/donald-trumps-favorability-up-due-to-increased-sup/
 
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That is much more detail than Trump has given in how he wants to make up for the lost income from his tax break for the rich even now, after the law has been passed.
Dude. The government is making more money off of taxes since the tax cut. That's what happens when people have more of their own money. They spend it. And regressive taxes take give the government more money. Bernie and the Democrats are going to have to explain to us why that is a bad thing.

Go Figure: Federal Revenues Hit All-Time Highs Under Trump Tax Cuts

The Treasury Department reported this week that individual income tax collections for FY 2018 totaled $1.7 trillion. That's up $14 billion from fiscal 2017, and an all-time high. And that's despite the fact that individual income tax rates got a significant cut this year as part of President Donald Trump's tax reform plan.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-tax-cuts-federal-revenues-deficits/
 

Yoshi

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Dude. The government is making more money off of taxes since the tax cut. That's what happens when people have more of their own money. They spend it. And regressive taxes take give the government more money. Bernie and the Democrats are going to have to explain to us why that is a bad thing.

Go Figure: Federal Revenues Hit All-Time Highs Under Trump Tax Cuts

The Treasury Department reported this week that individual income tax collections for FY 2018 totaled $1.7 trillion. That's up $14 billion from fiscal 2017, and an all-time high. And that's despite the fact that individual income tax rates got a significant cut this year as part of President Donald Trump's tax reform plan.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-tax-cuts-federal-revenues-deficits/
In times of economical growth, rising tax income is to be expected. You demonstrate that Trump's income tax cut did not outpace the economical growth effect. Your quote does not point towards a causal relationship.
 

diablos991

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Major respect for Bernie.
He is almost too good for our country.

I’m really hoping the DNC hasn’t sunk their teeth too far into him. He needs to command an independent party.
 
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In times of economical growth, rising tax income is to be expected. You demonstrate that Trump's income tax cut did not outpace the economical growth effect. Your quote does not point towards a causal relationship.
The quote directly refutes the notion that income tax cuts COST the government money. Clearly, they did not. And many economists are making the strong case the tax cuts are exactly what spurred the economy.

Yes, the economy was booming in fiscal 2018. But it probably wouldn't have been booming without the tax cuts. Had Trump not succeeded in getting his pro-growth tax cuts across the finish line, it's possible we'd have seen a year like Obama's last one. A sluggish economy, barely increasing federal revenues, and a large increase in deficits.
 

diablos991

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What has he done? He's a career politician who has made millions through his time in government.
I don’t hate people for being wealthy. It’s a ridiculous thing to hate people for.

Bernie has been strong enough to keep a career in politics without towing the party line. He is very consistent in his views and has genuine passion for his work. If that doesn’t command respect then I don’t know what does.

I don’t agree with all his points but that applies with any politician. He is the most likely candidate to break away from big money politics.
 

diablos991

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Neither do I. Except for career politicians who spout off about socialist policies. Not sure why spending a lifetime in government warrants any sort of rewards.
Spending a lifetime in politics doesn’t merit reward. Getting re-elected so many times without becoming a party hack does.

He didn’t just sit in the job. People elected him to be there over the partisan candidates.

It sounds like your hatred comes purely from disagreement on policy. That’s also a weird thing to hate him for.

I respect the passion of profession and the commitment to ideas and change even if I don’t agree with them. We need more politicians like him and less that are NPCs for the parties.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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What the shit has he done? Medicare 4 All is all Dems have to promise for 2020 I guess that just come out of thin air or Hillary Clinton farted it into existence

Don’t know if people don’t understand the difference between a capital S socialist and what Bernie is or they just full of shit bad faith takes but they are fairly pointless. Nobody cares. “Wow he made money that disqualifies him from talking about economic justice” is the most brain dead take
 
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Yoshi

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The quote directly refutes the notion that income tax cuts COST the government money. Clearly, they did not. And many economists are making the strong case the tax cuts are exactly what spurred the economy.

Yes, the economy was booming in fiscal 2018. But it probably wouldn't have been booming without the tax cuts. Had Trump not succeeded in getting his pro-growth tax cuts across the finish line, it's possible we'd have seen a year like Obama's last one. A sluggish economy, barely increasing federal revenues, and a large increase in deficits.
That is going by the assumption that the economy would have faltered otherwise. Which, looking at the EU, is unlikely. If you earned X amount of money, would get an additional amount Y, but an event costs you Z<Y amount of money, you end up with X+Y-Z>X amount of money. Which basically is what is to be observed here.
 

Rentahamster

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Nancy Pelosi gets re-elected.
What's your point?

This is why Bernie getting re-elected without becoming a hack and staying one of the poorest members of Congress is admirable.

While Pelosi getting re-elected while becoming a hack and also becoming one of the richest members of Congress is not admirable.
 
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That is much more detail than Trump has given in how he wants to make up for the lost income from his tax break for the rich even now, after the law has been passed.
If you didn't make up for the lost revenue from the Pres. Bush/Obama tax cuts why should Pres. Trump be held to different standard? And what exactly is the problem?

If you raise taxes to "make up" for those cuts and/or gut the welfare state, then that's going to carry economic and political consequences for America. It's not going to be good for you and your economy isn't going to soar. The US will be ran into the ground.

It’s the last three minutes of video 1. I was hoping he would go into some details there because I am still feeling a bit skeptical about what he is saying. A lot of studies have shown his ideas would be very costly to implement.

I’d be interested in knowing how much all of my taxes would go up from something like this so I could compare to what I pay for healthcare now. Taxing the rich more isn’t going to be the magic solution, so things are going to hit us middle class people one way or another.
You're right taxing the rich isn't a silver bullet.

One study by the Political Economy Research Institute suggested business premiums, a sales tax on non essentials, treating long-term capital gains as ordinary income, and a net worth tax > $1 million. The middle class wouldn't contribute much under such an approach.
 
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That is going by the assumption that the economy would have faltered otherwise.
The 4th quarter GDP numbers in Europe were terrible. I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here. Clearly the US economy benefited from the tax cuts. EU should take note.

The latest Eurostat numbers on the European Union's GDP are less than encouraging. Year-on-year growth in the EU 28 slowed to 1.4%. It was only 1.2% in the euro area, but robust growth within the non-Euro currency East European countries helped push up the EU average a few tenths of percentage points.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4244104-eu-serves-early-warning-nears-economic-crisis
 

Joe T.

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You shouldn't be surprised. For the establishment on the left, outreach and falling in line is a one way street:
‘Stop Sanders’ Democrats Are Agonizing Over His Momentum
"There’s a growing realization that Sanders could end up winning this thing, or certainly that he stays in so long that he damages the actual winner," said David Brock, the liberal organizer, who said he has had discussions with other operatives about an anti-Sanders campaign and believes it should commence “sooner rather than later."

I didn't think they would be so open about their plans to work against Bernie. Crap like this only strengthens Bernie's appeal.
 
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Bernie toes the liberal political line just like any other politician. He is mired in identity politics. He spouts all the usual 'tax the rich' BS, he doesn't stand for energy independence, he supported the crappy deal with Iran, sides with the BDS movement and perpetuated the myth that Russians compromised the President in some way.

How is Sanders different than the typical liberal?
 

Yoshi

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The 4th quarter GDP numbers in Europe were terrible. I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here. Clearly the US economy benefited from the tax cuts. EU should take note.

The latest Eurostat numbers on the European Union's GDP are less than encouraging. Year-on-year growth in the EU 28 slowed to 1.4%. It was only 1.2% in the euro area, but robust growth within the non-Euro currency East European countries helped push up the EU average a few tenths of percentage points.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4244104-eu-serves-early-warning-nears-economic-crisis
I think I have made my position clear on that and in the end it is speculation whether the economic effect of the tax cut is larger than the lost tax income due to lower tax rates. Therefore discussing this will not lead to any conclusion.
 

Rentahamster

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Bernie Sanders just logged the most-watched cable news town hall of the election season with his Monday appearance on Fox News.


The Sanders town hall, moderated by the network’s Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum, drew 2.554 million viewers, with 489,000 of them between the ages of 25 and 54. That overall audience was the largest tally of 2019 for these types of events. In the key demo, Sanders’ turn finished third.


Nancy Pelosi, the first town hall of 2019, was second overall with 2.517 million total viewers. That one was on MSNBC. It was also in primetime (8 p.m. to 11 p.m.), which generally has better viewing levels than Sanders’ 6:30-7:30 p.m. hour did.
 

weltalldx

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Bernie speaks in generalities and offers no specifics to any of his proposals. All his answers are focus group tested responses that can quickly fall apart on closer examination/followup. Spinning socialism as a positive does not hide the fact that socialism is still untenable, unsustainable, and unacceptable to the majority of working Americans. Offering to give people free everything(college, healthcare, citizenship, higher pay) is fine and dandy, until someone with critical thinking ask how he plans to pay for it. Obama promised wealth redistribution to pay for all his proposals by taking from the rich and giving to the poor. What actually happened during his 8 years as president was the wealth gap between rich and poor grew, with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, all the while the middle class bore the brunt of the tax burden.

The audience clearly is made up of Bernie supporters since typical fox viewers would not clap for higher taxes, increase minimum wage to 15 dollars, support illegal immigration, gun control, police reforms, weakening the military. The fox host are as inept and clueless as amateur youtube interviewers, especially the female host, letting Bernie slide on softball questions and not following up on his deflections and nonanswers.

Trump should give Bernie a nickname, freeloading Bernie.
 

Yoshi

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free everything(college, healthcare, citizenship, higher pay)
Free citizenship? Do you prefer paying for citizenship?
Bernie speaks in generalities and offers no specifics to any of his proposals.
What's unspecific about
- tax financed health insurance for all citizens
- Free college tuition
- Higher income tax for high income people
- High taxes for wallstreet profits
- No bailouts

I.e., the main points of Sanders' policies.