• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

BIll Maher goes non-PC on obesity in "The Fudge Report"

TheExorzist

Member
Jun 17, 2006
9,477
1,166
1,350
Start taxing shit, problem solved.
Implying that people eat this crap just because it's cheap is so retarded, it's hard to comprehend.

I mean, sure… Make the burger 10 bucks and the veggies 1 buck per kilo.... For sure people will only eat veggies all of a sudden.

In your dreams only though.
 
Last edited:

crowbrow

Gold Member
Feb 28, 2019
1,325
1,775
545
I always wondered, if the industry makes cigarette companies put lungs riddled with cancer on cigarette boxes to warn users of the dangers of smoking, why not put fatty liver pictures on hamburgers, child labor pictures on cheap clothing and computer parts and pictures of people starving on politicians.
 

Razvedka

Member
Oct 20, 2018
102
110
215
Obesity is not a victimless self choice. It does impact wider society.

- Healthcare costs (since this is a collective burden)
- Transportation costs
- Resource strain (if you eat more, we must grow more food)
- National Security
- Economy (they will be dying sooner, thus paying into the system less while drawing out more resources)

And there's probably several more I can't think of since it's the early AM. Being obese should be socially unacceptable, it is an ethical failing as a citizen.
 

hariseldon

Gold Member
Aug 22, 2018
3,197
5,086
655
Obesity is not a victimless self choice. It does impact wider society.

- Healthcare costs (since this is a collective burden)
- Transportation costs
- Resource strain (if you eat more, we must grow more food)
- National Security
- Economy (they will be dying sooner, thus paying into the system less while drawing out more resources)

And there's probably several more I can't think of since it's the early AM. Being obese should be socially unacceptable, it is an ethical failing as a citizen.
The healthcare thing is more than just the headline stuff too - ie not just more heart disease etc. It's not having MRI scanners big enough for them, having to get specialised scales, etc - a lot of equipment that was perfectly fine for use for years is increasingly being found not fit for use because we have too many fatties.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Razvedka

ThePiddle

Member
May 6, 2019
107
171
245
He raises great points but I have mixed feelings on the shaming aspect of it, it hasn't worked for the last several decades.

More likely, obesity just needs to be treated as a health issue, with ad campaigns in place to promote healthy eating and light aerobic work for everyone. Fund it with a very small tax on fast food options (as small as .5-1% would generate hundreds of millions for ads).

Eating shit should still be anyone's freedom, healthy eating could use a little more mindshare though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Belmonte

Nymphae

Gold Member
Jun 3, 2013
7,624
6,405
855
Canada
He raises great points but I have mixed feelings on the shaming aspect of it, it hasn't worked for the last several decades.
I think that's only because of mixed messaging. Shaming smokers has worked in lowering their numbers, because as he said, there is no "smoking advocacy" group. We just all know it's bad and there's no mixed messaging like there is with fat people and the "body acceptance"/ self esteem stuff. You're always going to have some number of people making unhealthy choices, but I do believe that in general, if everyone is on the same page, shaming works.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: cryptoadam

ViceUniverse

Member
Mar 12, 2019
373
135
195
I think that's only because of mixed messaging. Shaming smokers has worked in lowering their numbers, because as he said, there is no "smoking advocacy" group. We just all know it's bad and there's no mixed messaging like there is with fat people and the "body acceptance"/ self esteem stuff. You're always going to have some number of people making unhealthy choices, but I do believe that in general, if everyone is on the same page, shaming works.
Body acceptance is a response to fat shaming.

The truth is food and weight are far different than smoking. People see beach bodies everywhere, desire them and try to obtain them, only to fall short. We spend a ridiculous amount of money on health/fitness/wellness and only have negative results to show for it.

Shaming will not fix that majority of the country eats poorly. It will not fix that people have different generics. It won't fix anything. Food is not cigarettes.
 
Last edited:

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
14,102
26,393
1,260
USA
dunpachi.com
Body acceptance is a response to fat shaming.
No, the issue is not on a sliding scale. This is a simple-minded way of viewing things i.e. "well a lot of people got made fun of so it's okay that the pendulum swung so far into unhealthy, dangerous, and unscientific territory". It is no different than boiling every person and every political viewpoint as "Right" or "Left".

It's not as though the body acceptance movement has reduce the rate of suicide, reduced the amount of unrealistic advertisements, enabled healthier eating,etc. If anything, it has been coopted by corporations for the sake of pushing their brand and making $$$ (just like corporate LGBTQ acceptance).

If I'm excessively fat, then I'm unhealthy. Period. It doesn't mean I should be chased down the street with pitchforks, but even if that was to occur, it doesn't mean my response should be to binge and "accept myself". Bad lifestyles are bad lifestyles. Funny how "fat shaming" is considered a bad thing yet "cigarette shaming" isn't.
 

ViceUniverse

Member
Mar 12, 2019
373
135
195
No, the issue is not on a sliding scale. This is a simple-minded way of viewing things i.e. "well a lot of people got made fun of so it's okay that the pendulum swung so far into unhealthy, dangerous, and unscientific territory". It is no different than boiling every person and every political viewpoint as "Right" or "Left".

It's not as though the body acceptance movement has reduce the rate of suicide, reduced the amount of unrealistic advertisements, enabled healthier eating,etc. If anything, it has been coopted by corporations for the sake of pushing their brand and making $$$ (just like corporate LGBTQ acceptance).

If I'm excessively fat, then I'm unhealthy. Period. It doesn't mean I should be chased down the street with pitchforks, but even if that was to occur, it doesn't mean my response should be to binge and "accept myself". Bad lifestyles are bad lifestyles. Funny how "fat shaming" is considered a bad thing yet "cigarette shaming" isn't.
It's more like "stop putting me down and tarnishing my self esteem because I'm fat".

Everyone knows that being obese is not healthy, and your doctor will make sure that you know that, but just because you are doesn't mean that you have to take any kind of abuse from strangers.

And you're right that advertising overcorrected it into this extreme "positive thing" to get people to buy into an image, and therefore buy their products.

But we all know that it's still unhealthy. I think people just get tired of the bullying, especially women because society is a bit harder on them about it, and there are higher expectations on them to look good.
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: DunDunDunpachi

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
14,102
26,393
1,260
USA
dunpachi.com
It's more like "stop putting me down and tarnishing my self esteem because I'm fat".

Everyone knows that being obese is not healthy, and your doctor will make sure that you know that, but just because you are doesn't mean that you have to take any kind of abuse from strangers.

And you're right that advertising overcorrected it into this extreme "positive thing" to get people to buy into an image, and therefore buy their products.

But we all know that it's still unhealthy. I think people just get tired of the bullying, especially women because society is a bit harder on them about it, and there are higher expectations on them to look good.
Earlier you said "food is not cigarettes". How do you figure? Cigarettes are deemed unhealthy because of decades of research and our increased knowledge of the ingredients in cigarettes and the effect those ingredients have on our bodies.

The same applies to food. Refined and denatured carbohydrates, sugar, concentrated chemicals and syrups, preservatives, color and flavor additives, to say nothing of diseases caused by poor food handling. Many of our food ingredients fail the same rigorous standard that we applied to cigarettes.

Even the excuse of "well it's my body and it doesn't hurt others, unlike smoking" is not correct. The people around you will be affected by your inability to perform most strenuous tasks (imagine being a fatass who can't save someone from a dangerous situation, but hey at least you tried the Popeye's chicken sandwich before you died). The people around you will be indirectly influenced by your support of a massive food industry that pushes profitable ingredients instead of nutritious ones. Others' health insurance fees will grow to compensate for your bad habits. Your children (or anyone else who looks up to you) will learn life-shortening eating habits from you.

Yet, in the thick of a health crisis (ballooning diabetes, ballooning coronary diseases, ballooning liver problems) we pause to say "well, don't make fun of them. That's really what started off this problem in the first place".

That's silly. On an individual level, I can respect a fattie and leave them alone. Myself, I was fat for many years. I did something about it. But on a group level, there is no logic behind "body acceptance". It is pseudoscience at best and a delusional cult at worst.

Bullying is a separate issue. If it wasn't fatties, it would be people who wear glasses, or people with red hair, or people of a different skincolor. It would be a mistake, however, to lump a preventable condition (obesity) with innate physical traits.
 

ViceUniverse

Member
Mar 12, 2019
373
135
195
Oops posted early.

Earlier you said "food is not cigarettes". How do you figure? Cigarettes are deemed unhealthy because of decades of research and our increased knowledge of the ingredients in cigarettes and the effect those ingredients have on our bodies.

The same applies to food. Refined and denatured carbohydrates, sugar, concentrated chemicals and syrups, preservatives, color and flavor additives, to say nothing of diseases caused by poor food handling. Many of our food ingredients fail the same rigorous standard that we applied to cigarettes.
This would highlight a similarity, but of course in this similarity food is much more complicated than cigarettes. They actually knew the affects of cigarettes for a long time, but food is a far different beast.

Nicotine keeps you addicted to cigs. Food and weigtloss encompasses an entirely different world than this. Do I really need to explain it?

Even the excuse of "well it's my body and it doesn't hurt others, unlike smoking" is not correct. The people around you will be affected by your inability to perform most strenuous tasks (imagine being a fatass who can't save someone from a dangerous situation, but hey at least you tried the Popeye's chicken sandwich before you died). The people around you will be indirectly influenced by your support of a massive food industry that pushes profitable ingredients instead of nutritious ones. Others' health insurance fees will grow to compensate for your bad habits. Your children (or anyone else who looks up to you) will learn life-shortening eating habits from you.
That's right.

Yet, in the thick of a health crisis (ballooning diabetes, ballooning coronary diseases, ballooning liver problems) we pause to say "well, don't make fun of them. That's really what started off this problem in the first place".
We're saying that fat shaming won't fix a damn thing.

Fat acceptance didn't start that, and fat shaming didn't prevent that. Neither created or prevented any of this. I'm simplifying, but the markets, the confusion around dieting and nutrition (as you pointed out), and lifestyle choices did.

We know that body size isn't a good measure of health until you reach the extremes. Body positivity and etc really just deals with the stigmas, finger pointing (or lack of it for thin people), and self love (reduce depression).

That's silly. On an individual level, I can respect a fattie and leave them alone. Myself, I was fat for many years. I did something about it. But on a group level, there is no logic behind "body acceptance". It is pseudoscience at best and a delusional cult at worst.
All it says is something pretty basic. I understand being mad at the ads, and plus sized models because they're in the spotlight, but there's more to health and weightloss, and etc, than pointing fingers at appearences.
 
Last edited:

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
Apr 11, 2007
2,735
84
1,255
31
James Corden has reponded to it. Looks like he really took it hard. Goes in personal attack mode on Bill Maher.

 

Razvedka

Member
Oct 20, 2018
102
110
215
Most people getting upset here would probably feel more comfortable with the idea of 'shaming' anti-vaccers. Obesity is an epidemic that does indeed have horrible consequences on society in a variety of ways, but is being fat as much of a 'risk' to society as anti-vaccination? No, of course not.

But it is extremely harmful to it in the long run and we are definitely feeling the weight of these costs. So I'd assert it exists on the same 'plane'.

So I think pushing people in the right direction is the correct thing to do. Being an asshole to them? Not necessary outside of stand up routines, but by the same token it doesn't mean you 'accept' their choice as anything but what it is: harmful to both themselves and society at large. Don't enable them.

Obesity is (yet another) problem masquerading as a 'life choice', and its defense is predicated largely on the assertion that individuals should be free to do what they want. I certainly empathize with that argument, so the line has to be you don't go off the rails and do something like say 'being fat is illegal', or something. It just means that none of us should encourage it and we ought to hold ourselves(and each other) accountable.

By the same token, we need to understand the causes behind the rise in obesity. What can be done to make a healthier lifestyle easier?
 
  • Like
Reactions: hariseldon
Oct 26, 2018
4,572
3,841
440
By the same token, we need to understand the causes behind the rise in obesity. What can be done to make a healthier lifestyle easier?
Unless a miracle happens, people will trend fatter. Even though bottled water has been best selling drinks for probably a decade, where soft drinks are weening out. And there's a lot more vegan, and healthier food options at the store. Yet people are still fatter.

It's a tech world where most people prefer sitting at home ordering things online, doing Uber eats, and watching netflix or typing on social media.

Decades ago, when many of us on this forum were kids, we had video games too. And ya, we watched VHS movies. But kids still had to get off their ass to walk to school, we played street hockey or rode bikes after school, and during recess we played as much soccer as possible in that 15 minute break.

And back then, food was worse. You had more junky options, no bottled water, and there wasn't the big focus on eating healthy, diet fads or gym memberships. Yet somehow, people were slimmer.

The only way people will have a healthier lifestyle is if farmers can make carrots and celery taste as good as chips and beer. Humans are designed to be lazy as a whole. As long as they can do what they need to do while sitting on their couch, they'll take the easy route even if it means becoming fat with heart problems.
 
Last edited:

infinitys_7th

Gold Member
Oct 1, 2006
4,861
5,176
1,420
Tax sugar nationwide.

Don't give me the nanny state bullshit either, thanks.
Nah, the government should get rid of its debunked food pyramid based on the lipid hypothesis and promote whole foods focusing on either carbs or fats. Much like the proliferation of trans fats, the government helped shift demand towards "low-fat" foods and processed foods with schooling and public service advertisements, and those foods necessarily need sugars or transfats to be palatable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hariseldon

ViceUniverse

Member
Mar 12, 2019
373
135
195
Nah, the government should get rid of its debunked food pyramid based on the lipid hypothesis and promote whole foods focusing on either carbs or fats. Much like the proliferation of trans fats, the government helped shift demand towards "low-fat" foods and processed foods with schooling and public service advertisements, and those foods necessarily need sugars or transfats to be palatable.
Corporations have equal blame in getting the government to do that.
 

brohmbel

Member
May 12, 2009
627
155
825
Money quote: "Hey liberals, you know how you hate it when conservatives won't even let the CDC study gun violence, as a public health issue? This is that. You're the NRA of mayonnaise"
 

Yoshi

Member
May 4, 2005
14,324
2,852
1,570
32
Germany
www.gaming-universe.de
I mean, it is a comedy piece, so it is a bit difficult to argue with it properly, but he is right in terms of obesity being a major issue and the fat-shaming hysteria (or "real women", "realistic bodies" as ideals) are idiotic. But it is not the solution to the health care issue, because unfortunately, you can take no drugs whatsoever (including those that many people tend to not count as drugs because they take them), being a good weight and doing a lot of sports, but still get extremely sick and needing treatment. So it should in fact be both, introduce a proper health care system and combat the obesity issue.
 

Teletraan1

Member
May 17, 2012
6,148
2,910
670
Canada
I personally don't give a shit if someone wants to eat themselves into a grave. Just cut out the trend of using morbidly obese people for body positivity. As I said earlier start highlighting normal thicc girls rather than rail thin ones. You would make far more people positive about their bodies as it is more representative of the population and doesn't promote a lifestyle that can take decades off your life. This isn't some impossible problem to solve, just stop using extremes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeresJohnny