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Black men are succeeding in America (CNN)

llien

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Before fights start, let me point out that I don't see any controversy. Just interesting facts:



First, the share of black men in poverty has fallen from 41% in 1960 to 18% today. Second, and more importantly, the share of black men in the middle or upper class -- as measured by their family income -- has risen from 38% in 1960 to 57% today. In other words, about one-in-two black men in America have reached the middle class or higher.



Still lagging behind whites/Asians, but steadily catching up.

CNN also found out that married black men, are more likely to be part of middle+ class, but I"m afraid they are mistaking cause and outcome here.

CNN
 

DunDunDunpachi

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That's great news to hear. Glad that economic prosperity is on the up for that demographic. It probably explains why more and more black men are veering conservative and voting accordingly.

CNN also found out that married black men, are more likely to be part of middle+ class, but I"m afraid they are mistaking cause and outcome
Stability through marriage is a thing, though. Stable marriage is absolutely a factor for more black men entering the middle class and upper middle class. Conversely, the high rate of single-parent households in the black community is a huge contributing factor to the lack of success for future men and women from that community.



This isn't to claim that marriage will always be a solution nor will single-parent households always result in deficient children. These are only statistics, after all.
 
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SpartanN92

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Statistically I’d say it’s safe to assume that if you get a high school degree, and avoid having children until you are married then you are WAYYYY less likely to live in poverty.
 
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oagboghi2

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No, America is a white supremacist fascist state and no one can succeed.

🙄

This is old news. Blacks have been improving steadily since Reagan, but this is down played since black democrat politicians only know how to run on victimhood and division. You think Kamala Harris or Cory Booker are going to talk about this, or call Trump Hitler?

Statistically I’d say it’s safe to assume that if you get a high school degree, and avoid having children until you are married then you are WAYYYY less likely to live in poverty.
The three rules haven't changed.

1. Graduate high school and keep a job
2. Don't have kids until marriage
3. Stay out of jail
 
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llien

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Stability through marriage is a thing, though. Stable marriage is absolutely a factor for more black men entering the middle class...
While I agree that people dropping out (e.g. divorce) might go down the spiral,, most men need to prove they are able to provide for the future family, to even get married.
 
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llien

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Then explain explosion of single motherhood...?
Many aspects are at play. One of them, perhaps, ever growing "reverse gap" in education.

Maybe if you're aiming for the creme of the crop of available women.
Makes me wonder how you align that position with explosion of single motherhood.

My take aligns well with numerous study results by ev. psychologists. Women, much more than men, care about spouse's education, ability (and readiness) to provide, etc.
 
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juliotendo

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Doesn’t explain the overwhelming incarceration of blacks in prison due to violent crime and horrific violent neighborhoods where majority young black men are killing other young black men.
 

oagboghi2

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Doesn’t explain the overwhelming incarceration of blacks in prison due to violent crime and horrific violent neighborhoods where majority young black men are killing other young black men.
Uhh well it kinda does. Middle class and upper blacks don't live in the ghetto. They don't set up buisnesses in the ghetto. They move out to the suburbs and other areas, leaving the poor behind. Those who are well continue to be well off, sending their kids to better schools and the like, and those in the ghetto, stay there

Gangbanging blacks in Chicago have a very different American experience than upper class blacks living in Atlanta or something
 
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KINGMOKU

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Then explain explosion of single motherhood...?

Maybe if you're aiming for the creme of the crop of available women.
That's a question better directed towards Bill and hilary Clinton, or even Joe Biden.

They may have the answers you seek.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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While I agree that people dropping out (e.g. divorce) might go down the spiral,, most men need to prove they are able to provide for the future family, to even get married.
Nah, poor people get married, too. Historically the right to marry whom you choose and pass on your possessions to your offspring was a key part of individual Western rights.

The crucial detail here is the decline in marriage among the black community over the last 60 years. Hundreds of years ago, the family unit had been destroyed by slavery, and so the ability to marry whom you chose (instead of being traded and sold as a slave) and the right to pass on your possessions to offspring was not available to them.

The right to marry was an essential piece in building the post-slavery black community in America. For 100 years, the black family was the pillar of strength and prosperity. Getting married and owning property was the American dream for emancipated slaves and their children.

What happened between then and now, and now what do we have instead of this dream? The black community in the USA is primarily comprised of single-parent "households", and I put "households" in quotes because the rate of black home ownership has dropped to a 50-year low as well.

Lo and behold,
a higher rate of American black men who return to their cultural roots and pursue family end up being in the middle class.
 
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llien

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Nah, poor people get married, too.
You miss the point. It's about women looking for at least same or higher status.
So, poor women are not exactly demanding billions of dollars of income.

A number of crucial changes have happened over recent decades.
The birth control pill.
More women going to work, more women (than men) getting higher education, etc.

It, however, didn't change the expectations. In fact, as a woman's socioeconomic status increases, her preference for a high status man becomes even more pronounced. (these are results from numerous studies, not something I'm making up)

All of it actually makes perfect sense to me, at least from evolution perspective.
 
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Super Mario

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Ironic that us on the "hateful, racist right" love to see this, and want it to keep trending positive. The day I see a true line graph that shows Democratic support going way down, is the day we make even more progress.
 

JordanN

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Not downplaying the reports, but I'm curious how did they calculate the 40% poverty rate of black men in the 1960s?

Consider that black home ownership was actually higher in the past, was there a massive gulf in rich and poor blacks back then? Or have more people taken on debt and mortage since then in order to "rise up"?




It also says that it's based on "total family income".

Lets say you have a family of 6 living in an apartment. They would technically have a higher income then if it was just one person living on their own right?
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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You miss the point. It's about women looking for at least same or higher status.
So, poor women are not exactly demanding billions of dollars of income.
That doesn't prevent poor people from getting married. You're missing my point: whether rich or poor (or middle class), marriage tends to lead to economic stability. It's not that profound of a statement.

To dismiss marriage as one factor in the success of middle-class black men is to deny plain evidence. Go ahead and read the link I offered you if you do not believe that marriage is a predictor of future success.

A number of crucial changes have happened over recent decades.
The birth control pill.
More women going to work, more women (than men) getting higher education, etc.

It, however, didn't change the expectations. In fact, as a woman's socioeconomic status increases, her preference for a high status man becomes even more pronounced. (these are results from numerous studies, not something I'm making up)
If you are suggesting that the lower rate of marriage is because of a woman's improved ability to select her mates, then it would stand to reason that the poor people would've already been bred out of existence.

Alas, poor people are having a ton of babies, so this theory doesn't hold water. Plenty of women are having sex and making babies with poor people, but it isn't producing stable family units and stable communities. Hmm, is there perhaps a cultural institution being ignored that could help address this issue? :pie_thinking:

All of it actually makes perfect sense to me, at least from evolution perspective.
Yes, it does make sense that the males who engage with a stable family unit end up prospering economically, too, as the family unit is one of the core building blocks of a mercantile civilization. I don't know why you would discount marriage a a part of this equation. The statistics indicate that it plays a role. The statistics indicate that a decline in marriage has also correlated with a sharp increase of negative behaviors and outcomes.

While correlation does not equal causation, we have enough supporting evidence to know that a two-parent household is superior to a one-parent household.

This doesn't mean one-parent families are trash and their children are trash, but in the same way a doctor would inform an obese person "your physical condition means you are more likely to get cancer and diabetes", we have enough evidence to say with confidence "your high incidence of single-parent households means you are more likely to get crime, poverty, malnutrition, and poor education".
 
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somerset

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Yanks have an obsession with the word 'black' and for only one reason - slavery. Even today 90% of 'white' yanks believe, deep in their mind, that slavery was 'justified' by some factor that makes a 'black' person fundamentally different from a 'white'. This form of braindead racism informs all discussions on the issue of 'race' in the USA today.

Popular US culture only stopped depicting 'black' folk as 'spear chuckers' in the early 70s.

Black Americans share the same cultural desires as white Americans- a fact the racists really really hate. In Europe this braindead racism isn't a thing (except amongst the tiny number of braindead far right idiots) because *we* suffer the very real invasion by millions of Humans with a very different cultural outlook to ourselves, the muslims uprooted from every sh-tty peasant region of muslim nations.

While middle class muslims usually identify with western values, and so do some entire muslim groups (like the kurds), the peasant class muslims are medieval in outlook.

So it is distressing for any European to watch yanks still dribble on about their 'black' citizens in a clear attempt to 'prove' their inherent inferiority.
 
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Riven326

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That's not possible! Black people are oppressed and are back in chains because of Drumpf!!!

Seriously though. Good for them. And it's good for the rest of us too. I hope they vote Republican in 2020.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Yanks have an obsession with the word 'black' and for only one reason - slavery. Even today 90% of 'white' yanks believe, deep in their mind, that slavery was 'justified' by some factor that makes a 'black' person fundamentally different from a 'white'. This form of braindead racism informs all discussions on the issue of 'race' in the USA today.
Your usual unhinged rants are amusing, but the accusation that 90% of white yanks secretly believe that a black person is fundamentally different needs more backing, Mr. Mind Reader.

So it is distressing for any European to watch yanks still dribble on about their 'black' citizens in a clear attempt to 'prove' their inherent inferiority.
If we summed up all your posts, I think 25% of the words would boil down to "dribbling" and "fabians".

As you well know, the repetitious mantra-like structure of all your posts is a favorite tool of propagandists. Care to back up what you say, or will you resort to your pre-emptive "we live in the information age and anyone can read what I am talking about" excuse?
 
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ssolitare

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So the article has some good information, but I wouldn't try to use it as a political weapon. It's just a gage of the current state of things, rather than the assumed state. But many people already knows this deep down.

---

We found, for instance, that the odds that black men make it to the middle or upper class are at least three times higher for those men who marry, compared to their peers who never married. Their financial well-being is higher partly because married black women contribute a higher share of income to the household than other married women.

Adding to the chances of black men achieving middle class and higher status is the US military. We found that serving in the military was associated with a 72% increase in the odds that black men made it into the middle class or higher as 50-something men.

By providing stable work, good health care, housing, and opportunities for advancement, by championing virtues such as duty, responsibility, loyalty, and perseverance, and by pushing racial integration, the US military has served as an important route into the middle class.

Black men are significantly less likely to make it into the middle and upper class than their white and Asian-American peers. The odds of black men in their 50s making it to the middle class were about 60% lower for those who were charged with a crime as a young adult.

Given that racial segregation, poverty, and biasaffect the odds that young black males get caught up in the criminal justice system, systemic racism limits the economic fortunes of black men. What's more: right now, only a small minority of black men graduate from college: 17%.

Amidst all that's wrong about race in America today, we cannot lose sight of two sets of social facts: today, about one-in-two black men have made it in America, and these men have traveled routes into the middle class that can be replicated.
The evidence suggests that if more Americans knew how many black men were succeeding, and more about the routes they are taking, it would reduce racial prejudice and engender hope among today's young black males that they too have a shot at making it in America.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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So the article has some good information, but I wouldn't try to use it as a political weapon.
You're the first to mention the notion of a positive piece of news being used as a "political weapon". How could someone weaponize good news?

The evidence suggests that if more Americans knew how many black men were succeeding, and more about the routes they are taking, it would reduce racial prejudice and engender hope among today's young black males that they too have a shot at making it in America.
This is what I like about the findings. It removes any excuse for inaction and leaves mystery as to the decline of the black community. Build up the household again, build up the father again, and black families will thrive both socially and economically.
 

ssolitare

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You're the first to mention the notion of a positive piece of news being used as a "political weapon". How could someone weaponize good news?


This is what I like about the findings. It removes any excuse for inaction and leaves mystery as to the decline of the black community. Build up the household again, build up the father again, and black families will thrive both socially and economically.
There's more to it than having two permanent incomes.

For example college enrollment is just 17%, and poverty to crime leads to significantly less opportunities to get into the middle class, so there's much to improve on.

Riding the tails of the military is great because any opportunity is great, but I want to see more statistically diverse ways of black men making it into the middle class.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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There's more to it than having two permanent incomes.

For example college enrollment is just 17%, and poverty to crime leads to significantly less opportunities to get into the middle class, so there's much to improve on.

Riding the tails of the military is great because there opportunity is there, but I want to see more statistically diverse ways of black men making it into the middle class.
Sure, I'm not dusting off my hands and saying "nice. Black people are all set". It seems you and I are in agreement: the path to success for young men in the black community seems pretty well-established at this point. Now the community can work to expand those opportunities by their own volition and entrepreneurship. The American black community needs to bring itself back into the middle class and it seems like the road is paved to do it.

Thankfully, it looks like these black men were able to succeed largely without the social programs aimed at their skincolor, so that fares well for the future: regardless of whatever politicians are in office, it appears black men are succeeding all the same.
 

ssolitare

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Thankfully, it looks like these black men were able to succeed largely without the social programs aimed at their skincolor, so that fares well for the future: regardless of whatever politicians are in office, it appears black men are succeeding all the same.
That's a whole different subject, but hopefully that is the case because those types of policies would have somewhat helped steer the culture (anti gatekeeping) towards what we have today. That's the goal after all.

The biggest limits of success are low education and weak skills, which is limited by poverty. The military deserves some credit for enabling the opportunity to circumvent that.
 
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Even today 90% of 'white' yanks believe, deep in their mind, that slavery was 'justified' by some factor that makes a 'black' person fundamentally different from a 'white'. This form of braindead racism informs all discussions on the issue of 'race' in the USA today.
Prove it. No, seriously, prove it. "Mind Reading" and "I think I'm Professor Xavier" are not acceptable answers; just so you know.


So it is distressing for any European to watch yanks still dribble on about their 'black' citizens in a clear attempt to 'prove' their inherent inferiority.
Speak for yourself. You don't represent Europe because if you did, I and I am sure many others, would be unbelievably embarrassed. Also, that word that you use a lot: "Dribble"....there is a hilarious irony in that. Since you like them so much, how about you suck on one of these for a while? Try not to dribble too much on it.


 
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Good to see minority groups trending better. That's the way it should be as it's a much more equal world now regardless of how the media or SJW claim the world is Hitlermania.

People just got to use their head.

It's like gun violence. You'd think with all the gun killing articles, crime and gun violence is exponentially worse than decades ago. And how can it not be when every internet news site gets real time violence articles up at any time? But stats show crime and violence have trended down for probably 40 years.

But that's the media (as usual) picking the most clickbit news on their desk. And with billions of people in the world there's always going to be enough content at any given hour to fill a front page with robberies, killings, and monthly Philippine ferry sinking. So much for "journalism". 99% of it is scouring the world for crime reports and the latest train derailment killing 100s.

As for Blacks and Hispanics trending better, good on them. It's not a perfect world, but just keep on striving for success and those line charts will be even better next time. Don't fall for the media claiming every one of you is a moron and kept down by Scrooge McDuck. All they look for is clicks and trying to get the common person to get mad, which makes more headlines, and gets them add money. For every White Dude Billionaire, there's a ton of common Whites who also are at the low/middle end too. Don't fall for the media trying to make it look like every European Whitey is rich with Mercedes and butlers.
 
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dragonfart28

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You can thank those pesky equality quotas at businesses for this.

But there's still a long way to go.

Eventually we will drop forced equality ratios and move to equal opportunity but that requires free post secondary education first.
 
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oagboghi2

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You can thank those pesky equality quotas at businesses for this.

But there's still a long way to go.

Eventually we will drop forced equality ratios and move to equal opportunity but that requires free post secondary education first.
Yeah.....no. Not at all. Did you even read the article?
 

merlinevo

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, black men who lean conservative will always do better than black men who support liberalism. Almost every successful black men you can think of have conservative values. Hard work, perseverance, and pursuit of the American dream. Obama didn't become president by being a lazy, uneducated black(white) man. Black athletes and celebrities did not succeed by being complacent and average. If you look at successful black people they all share certain common characteristics. They move out of the hood, they put their kids through private schools, they marry and associate with whites, and they live lavish lifestyles away from poor and lazy black people. What does that tell you?

Even though some of the successful black people often talk about oppression and racism, their actions don't reflect their words. This suggest to me that the type of black people who are not succeeding in America are those that depend on government, fell for the message that America is evil and racist, and lack the work ethic and self determinism to chase after their dreams while blaming everyone for their predicament.
 
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ssolitare

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, black men who lean conservative will always do better than black men who support liberalism. Almost every successful black men you can think of have conservative values. Hard work, perseverance, and pursuit of the American dream. Obama didn't become president by being a lazy, uneducated black(white) man. Black athletes and celebrities did not succeed by being complacent and average. If you look at successful black people they all share certain common characteristics. They move out of the hood, they put their kids through private schools, they marry and associate with whites, and they live lavish lifestyles away from poor and lazy black people. What does that tell you?

Even though some of the successful black people often talk about oppression and racism, their actions don't reflect their words. This suggest to me that the type of black people who are not succeeding in America are those that depend on government, fell for the message that America is evil and racist, and lack the work ethic and self determinism to chase after their dreams while blaming everyone for their predicament.
This is 100% false. For example, a lot of people don't even care about politics, and fall all over the income map.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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This is 100% false. For example, a lot of people don't even care about politics, and fall all over the income map.
If people of a certain skincolor can be guilty of systemic racism, surely black people can be systemically conservative based upon their behavior, whether they actually describe themselves as "conservative" or not.
 

Afro Republican

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Doesn’t explain the overwhelming incarceration of blacks in prison due to violent crime and horrific violent neighborhoods where majority young black men are killing other young black men.
That's actually not even the number one reason why black are in prison, heck, a large part of the cinarcerated came from the 70's and 80's with a dab of early 90's men where targeted so they can have single mother households. Its not accident. Democrats are evengiving them high paying jobs they wont give black men to cause separation further.

Of course, blue state mentality is dying, black people are moving to red states in droves, voting accordingly and creating businesses or working good jobs. Across the top 15 most populated black innercities 30% of the population of all those combined moved in the last 5 years. This actually hurts democrats a lot because it's spread the electorate and helps keep states that are red, red.
 

ssolitare

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surely black people can be systemically conservative based upon their behavior, whether they actually describe themselves as "conservative" or not.
So you're just making something up to fit your political agenda. That's cute. This is a boring, and useless topic to discuss.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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So you're just making something up to fit your political agenda. That's cute.
The article lists factors that are contributing to the success of black men. Education, work, and marriage. These are important conservative standpoints, especially the latter two.

Does Kneeling Man read links too?

This is a boring, and useless topic to discuss.
The success of black men is a boring and useless topic to discuss? Or systemic racism is a boring and useless topic to discuss?

Or taking your ball and going home is a useless and boring topic to discuss? :pie_thinking:
 
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MetalAlien

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Less poverty is always good. When you have nice things you tend to want to keep nice things nice.
 

ssolitare

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The article lists factors that are contributing to the success of black men. Education, work, and marriage. These are important conservative standpoints, especially the latter two.

Does Kneeling Man read links too?


The success of black men is a boring and useless topic to discuss? Or systemic racism is a boring and useless topic to discuss?

Or taking your ball and going home is a useless and boring topic to discuss? :pie_thinking:
Your systematic conservative hunch is completely useless to discuss, because you have zero basis to fact, and you have to believe that people are black and white like it's star was.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Your systematic conservative hunch is completely useless to discuss, because you have zero basis to fact, and you have to believe that people are black and white like it's star was.
You are putting words in my mouth and derailing the conversation at this point.

I've already offered my "basis to fact", whatever that means, and the article itself includes "basis to fact", which I included in my last post.
 

ssolitare

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You are putting words in my mouth and derailing the conversation at this point.

I've already offered my "basis to fact", whatever that means, and the article itself includes "basis to fact", which I included in my last post.
Did you know that my taxable income % is extremely low. I must be a conservative!

I'm married, educated, upper middle class and work 60hrs a week, I must be a conservative! Minus those global media elite liberals that I don't like, who have all of the same characteristics.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Did you know that my taxable income % is extremely low. I must be a conservative!

I'm married, educated, upper middle class and work 60hrs a week, I must be a conservative! Minus those global media elite liberals that I don't like, who have all of the same characteristics.
Oh, so you are taking it personally and that's why you went on a confusing rant. Gotcha.

I never called you a conservative. This thread is about trends in the black community. While you might take "conservative" to be a slur, I simply mean it to be a descriptor.
 

ssolitare

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Oh, so you are taking it personally and that's why you went on a confusing rant. Gotcha.

I never called you a conservative. This thread is about trends in the black community. While you might take "conservative" to be a slur, I simply mean it to be a descriptor.
No.

You are unable to apply the term "systematic conservative", or Democrat. Unless someone comes out and says what their political affiliation is, then you shouldn't make a judgement about their affiliation. To try and doing that from such a basic and simplistic method is just dumb.
 
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merlinevo

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Did you know that my taxable income % is extremely low. I must be a conservative!

I'm married, educated, upper middle class and work 60hrs a week, I must be a conservative! Minus those global media elite liberals that I don't like, who have all of the same characteristics.
Did you just get out of high school? Your post does not make any sense and is not grounded in reality.

If you pay extremely low income tax, you would be more likely liberal than conservative. Most middle class people are conservative, most poor people are liberal. The ultra rich are neither conservative or liberal but will support one side while condemning another. I doubt you understand the nuance of political leanings and probably just see in terms of black and white.
 
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ssolitare

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Did you just get out of high school? Your post does not make any sense and is not grounded in reality.

If you pay extremely low income tax, you would be more likely liberal than conservative. Most middle class people are conservative, most poor people are liberal. The ultra rich are neither conservative or liberal but will support one side while condemning another. I doubt you understand the nuance of political leanings and probably just see in terms of black and white.
Lol. SMH. Good luck.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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No.

You are unable to apply the term "systematic conservative", or Democrat. Unless someone comes out and says what their political affiliation is, then you shouldn't make a judgement about their affiliation. To try and doing that from such a basic and simplistic method is just dumb.
So why do you adhere to the ideology of "systemic racism"?
 

Ke0

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Their poverty levels have been dropping since the mid 60s. Seems like…once you stop oppressing a group of people they tend to start doing well and integrating. What a crazy notion. If only conservatives of that time realized such an obvious thing, by I also understand they didn't want black Americans succeeding but still this is such shocking news
 
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Rentahamster

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You're the first to mention the notion of a positive piece of news being used as a "political weapon". How could someone weaponize good news?
By using it as evidence for claims that certain politicians/policies/legislation are responsible for the positive news and that they should be supported as a result, even if it actually isn't really evidence.

It would be similar to taking news of something like more trees on the Earth and using that as evidence that environmental legislation is overrated since that somehow shows that things work out in their own.
 

matt404au

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Apr 25, 2009
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Their poverty levels have been dropping since the mid 60s. Seems like…once you stop oppressing a group of people they tend to start doing well and integrating. What a crazy notion. If only conservatives of that time realized such an obvious thing, by I also understand they didn't want black Americans succeeding but still this is such shocking news
Your argument seems to be based entirely on the assumption that conservatives were to blame for black poverty.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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By using it as evidence for claims that certain politicians/policies/legislation are responsible for the positive news and that they should be supported as a result, even if it actually isn't really evidence.

It would be similar to taking news of something like more trees on the Earth and using that as evidence that environmental legislation is overrated since that somehow shows that things work out in their own.
You're right, we do have people in the thread claiming that the welfare system is responsible for the positive news, even though the article and other research indicates otherwise. I would hardy call that "weaponized" though.