Black Panther |OT| "In troubled times, wise men build bridges while fools build walls." [Unmarked Spoilers]

Dec 11, 2008
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It was definitely a Marvel movie which means nothing outstanding but pretty watchable in the grand scheme of things. I'm a black man too but maybe it's because I'm not American I'm having a hard time understanding why this particular movie became a political battle ground as it seemed pretty damn light on politics all things considered. I like the girl that played Shuri and the general and that dude that played Claw hammed it up pretty damn good too.
 
Feb 3, 2018
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#4
Is the quote from OP in the movie? Because didn't the people of Wakanda basically build an invisible "WALL" around the city to keep people out? Or was that just a lazy 'jab' at Trump or something? I don't plan on seeing the movie anytime soon so can someone fill me in?
 
Jun 6, 2004
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It was pretty great. Michael B Jordan as the villain was perfect and I'm glad they managed to finally nail one in a Marvel film. He wasn't even so much villain as he was an antagonist. The film doesn't go into it too deeply but it tackling a lot of things when juxtaposed with the situation and setting left a lot to think about it. It would have been nice to see the film dig a bit more into that but it's a superhero film so it wasn't going to go that deep into them.

My biggest complaint was probably the weak CG at some points and the climax could have been more interesting. I did like the move T'Challa did at the last minute and it was interesting but I was hoping for something more a bit more bare-knuckle there.
 
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Jan 12, 2018
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#10
The movie is carried by the supporting cast (mostly the women). What is heroic, charming, brave or inspiring about the actual black panther. Had the bad guy not been a total dick I was more in awe of him.
That is actually quite very true. The whole premise of the movie is him trying to find how to live up to be a king. I think it was well done, but then again I never read the comics, so fans of the character might find him lacking? Can’t tell on that.

I loooved this movie. Killmonger’s quote at the end, clicked strings. All the women were amazing in this movie, that casino brawl was awesome.

But, to be fair, i want to think more of it and watch it again before rating it. Don’t want to judge while on a high you know!

P.s: the soundtrack is awesome!
 
Jan 12, 2018
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#11
It was pretty great. Michael B Jordan as the villain was perfect and I'm glad they managed to finally nail one in a Marvel film. He wasn't even so much villain as he was an antagonist. The film doesn't go into it too deeply but it tackling a lot of things when juxtaposed with the situation and setting left a lot to think about it. It would have been nice to see the film dig a bit more into that but it's a superhero film so it wasn't going to go that deep into them.

My biggest complaint was probably the weak CG at some points and the climax could have been more interesting. I did like the move T'Challa did at the last minute and it was interesting but I was hoping for something more a bit more bare-knuckle there.
“That was one hell of a move.” Ditto hahaha
 
Mar 12, 2011
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#12
Loved it. Wonderful casting all around but Micheal B stole the show. The way Coogler was able to tie themes of fatherhood and responsibility between Killmonger and T'Challa was brilliant but he did something similiar with Creed so it's not surprising. I am disappointed with Killmonger's death since I feel they could of had a Professor X/Magneto type of relationship.
 
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#13
Is the quote from OP in the movie? Because didn't the people of Wakanda basically build an invisible "WALL" around the city to keep people out? Or was that just a lazy 'jab' at Trump or something? I don't plan on seeing the movie anytime soon so can someone fill me in?
Ironically, Wakanda is far more ethnocentric, closed minded and supremacist than Trump.
 

Alx

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#14
Ironically, Wakanda is far more ethnocentric, closed minded and supremacist than Trump.
Indeed, T'Challa is basically "Wakanda first" for most of the movie. Isolationist, doesn't care for the troubles all around the world because "we're fine here", and puts soldiers all along the border to prevent foreigners from entering.
 
Jan 15, 2018
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Just another mediocre marvel movie.

The technology in wakanda is so over the top it breaks my suspension of disbelief.
The CGI was terrible. Please stop with CGI dummies punching each other. It never looks good.

Killmonger's plan makes no sense. Send super weapons to fight opression in london? Hong Kong? What opression?
You know what would've been a good plan? Take over africa. Kill all whiteys, i mean colonizers there. Hell, enslave them.
Turn the african continent into a wakandan empire. A black supremacist nation. Killmonger, the black hitler. This would have made him a cool villain. Instead of a big tits bimbo. Who has the biggest man tits? Kylo Ren or Killmonger?

It's like there's no africa outside of wakanda. Africa, a continent plagued with poverty, disease and where slavery still exists. No, lets help those american kids. The audience will love it. The only black man that matters is the one being opressed somehow by Trump.
I love how T'Challa creates an international aid center in the USA. You know, the richest most powerful country in the world.

I know it's supposed to be just another braindead escapism film we'll have forgotten in a week. Maybe i'm just being bitter. But i found some of the plot points insulting.
 
Sep 13, 2007
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#16
It was alright. I wasn't expecting the movie to turn me around on Black Panther (I find him to be an incredibly boring character, sorry), and it didn't. But I liked a bunch of other characters, namely Killmonger... to the point where I wish it focused on Killmonger a LOT more. But unfortunately, this is a Marvel movie we're talking about so the villain is merely there to die at the end. At least he had some backstory this time... that we got to see for a grand total of 90 seconds.

Edit: Forgot to mention I also really liked BP's sister. Between Black Mirror and this, that actress is one to look out for, IMO.
 
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Jun 6, 2004
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#17
Ironically, Wakanda is far more ethnocentric, closed minded and supremacist than Trump.
I've heard that but wasnt sure if it was true or just stupid facebook memes. I see it's confirmed here.

I'm waiting for the bluray release for this one but glad it's getting great reviews.
 
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Jul 7, 2004
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Ironically, Wakanda is far more ethnocentric, closed minded and supremacist than Trump.
I think that's kind of the point - national pride, segregation from the world via ideals, etc - it's not about the actual colour of skin, but can happen anywhere, no matter the intentions. The whole point is that he grows and overcomes that ideal. I think the actual quote uses "barriers" and not walls if I am to remember correctly.

I wonder how much of the Wakandan "culture" is fictional, and how much is influenced. For example, what language were they speaking when it was subtitled? Do any of the costume designs have any basis in any traditional garb?

I loved the move for the most part. A few little niggles, mostly over how it concluded, but overall I thought it was really great fun.

Oh, and the actors they chose to play younger versions...there must've been some CGI or makeup touch ups right? so many times I saw the same person in them that it couldn't have just been lookalike casting.
 
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Nov 5, 2016
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#20
Indeed, T'Challa is basically "Wakanda first" for most of the movie. Isolationist, doesn't care for the troubles all around the world because "we're fine here", and puts soldiers all along the border to prevent foreigners from entering.
But that’s the point.....at the end be completely admits his mistake and reaches out to the outside world.

I think some people want to miss the point entirely, on purpose

This is a good movie. For a Marvel movie it’s a solid 8 or high 7. Not in my top 3 (I don’t anything will top Winter Soldier for me).

Worst part is the messy CGI. That is just hard to excuse at this point of the game.

There is no reason for controversy. This movie is not “anti-White.” The politics are tactful. The Wakandan pride is passionate and appropriate. This isn’t about “kill whitey” in fact only the villain brings that up and the good guys, the Wakanda majority, fight to stop that agenda.

Anyone in America can understand why people were going to be mad over this film no matter what. The one quote is a dig at Trump but it’s the only of its kind in the whole film
 
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Oct 24, 2017
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It was alright. I wasn't expecting the movie to turn me around on Black Panther (I find him to be an incredibly boring character, sorry), and it didn't. But I liked a bunch of other characters, namely Killmonger... to the point where I wish it focused on Killmonger a LOT more. But unfortunately, this is a Marvel movie we're talking about so the villain is merely there to die at the end. At least he had some backstory this time... that we got to see for a grand total of 90 seconds.

Edit: Forgot to mention I also really liked BP's sister. Between Black Mirror and this, that actress is one to look out for, IMO.
Yeah that's my problem with Black Panther as well. He's perfect. He's brave, kind, smart, strong, honorable, etc...He has no faults, so it's hard to find him interesting. Even Thor has some faults. I think Marvel designed him to be the black Superman...it almost seemed like they were afraid to design a black superhero that had faults just like any normal human being.
 
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#22
Yeah that's my problem with Black Panther as well. He's perfect. He's brave, kind, smart, strong, honorable, etc...He has no faults, so it's hard to find him interesting. Even Thor has some faults. I think Marvel designed him to be the black Superman...it almost seemed like they were afraid to design a black superhero that had faults just like any normal human being.
Luke Cage has plenty of faults
 
Aug 18, 2016
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#23
Is the quote from OP in the movie? Because didn't the people of Wakanda basically build an invisible "WALL" around the city to keep people out? Or was that just a lazy 'jab' at Trump or something? I don't plan on seeing the movie anytime soon so can someone fill me in?
Yes, it is a quote in reference to Wakanda being isolationist in the past. But it is also a double-entendre.
 
Sep 11, 2005
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#24
Thread title is wrong.

He doesn't say "walls", he says "barriers".

Walls can be barriers but then so can anything else that separates us from one another, either physical or mental.
 
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Alx

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Jan 22, 2007
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#25
But that’s the point.....at the end be completely admits his mistake and reaches out to the outside world.
He does, but I think the character development to reach that conclusion is weak. It's not like the events of the movie made T'Challa realize there was poverty in the world, from the very beginning we see that he knows that, is close to someone who pushes for more intervention, and he's all "not my problem". And nobody (but Nakia) gives him shit for that.
Towards the end of the movie, the thing that makes him sad/angry is "we've totally been unfair to my cousin". It's not that there are poor people out there, but that a member of their family had to endure it. If T'Chaka had taken the boy wit him, everything would have been fine for him, I guess.
As a matter of fact one has to wonder what made him change his mind and open Wakanda to the world. Did Killmonger's fight and death really "open his eyes" ? (as far as T'Challa's concerned, he's only been fighting to keep his throne, after all). Or was it just because "now the CIA knows about us, the cat is out of the bag, we may as well go public..."

Killmonger's plan makes no sense. Send super weapons to fight opression in london? Hong Kong? What opression?
You know what would've been a good plan? Take over africa. Kill all whiteys, i mean colonizers there. Hell, enslave them.
Turn the african continent into a wakandan empire. A black supremacist nation. Killmonger, the black hitler. This would have made him a cool villain. Instead of a big tits bimbo. Who has the biggest man tits? Kylo Ren or Killmonger?

It's like there's no africa outside of wakanda. Africa, a continent plagued with poverty, disease and where slavery still exists. No, lets help those american kids. The audience will love it. The only black man that matters is the one being opressed somehow by Trump.
I love how T'Challa creates an international aid center in the USA. You know, the richest most powerful country in the world.
Yeah that's also a weakness of the movie, but then it's logical considering the source material. It's a US-centric comic, so it has US-centric concerns/illustrations. The concept of a highly advanced country in Africa has a lot of potential indeed, and the way it's told doesn't always make sense from an African/international point of view, but well in the end it's still an American movie.
 
Jan 12, 2009
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Yeah that's also a weakness of the movie, but then it's logical considering the source material. It's a US-centric comic, so it has US-centric concerns/illustrations. The concept of a highly advanced country in Africa has a lot of potential indeed, and the way it's told doesn't always make sense from an African/international point of view, but well in the end it's still an American movie.
Yeah, they didn't modernize it enough. Everyone comments about this until you chalk it up to being US - Centric. But people thing broader today.

It's a good movie, and a great marvel movie though. I find myself enjoying the better ones so long as I don't watch them twice. I tend to think more critically of them at that point.
 
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Jan 16, 2006
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Watched the movie last night. I agree with some of the criticisms I'm reading here, but I also really enjoyed it for its characters.

I'm not a fan of Marvel or the MCU. Up till now, the only hero and universe I like is Spider-Man, but I strongly disliked him in Civil War and Spider-Man Homecoming, and have no plans to ever watch any of his MCU sequels/films moving forward. With Black Panther though, several factors convinced me to give this one a go, even though I thought the trailers were bad and disliked the music in them. Namely that the cast was largely loving christians, particularly Letita Wright, who is outspoken in her love for Christ, God, and all peoples (she comes from the same country my parents do, btw. :D), plus the director Ryan Coogler, in interviews, appeared like a guy who did want to try and understand different perspectives in a deep and meaningful way, without subscribing to any single one. Plus I don't think most of these guys on twitter or anywhere have ever been divisive, so these factors helped convince me that I wasn't in for some long biased commentary from characters with two dimensional motivations and objectives, with a pandering message to certain groups.

For the movie itself, I liked T'Challa for the most part. He never sweared/cuss/cursed, and that's a plus in my book. :p The car chase scene showed that some of his vengefulness had carried over from Civil War and he is a guy who bows to his emotions rather quickly, evidenced that he didn't think twice about his father being wrong for abandoning his uncle's kid to "protect Wakanda", interrupting and probably ruining Makia's mission early in the movie because he wanted her to be present for his King ceremony, and at the end of the film of course he's moved by his cousin, Killmonger's story, and felt the need to pretty quickly open Wakanda up to the world as he feels that had his father had done that during his reign, the Killmonger wouldn't have happened. For the most part his appeal feels universal. He's heroic, generally a good guy, and somewhat tactful and considerate. But as others have said above, he's also strongly carried by the supporting cast. I enjoyed the characters disagreements/dynamics throughout, especially during the Casino scenes. Makia wanted to subdue the target immediately on sight, while T'Challa and the General wanted to wait for a more opportune moment so as to prevent a shootout from happening. The General ends up acting first when approached, and the shoot-out worse case scenario begins. The alluded plan B was the car chase, which Shuri was on stand-by for. She was hoping for that moment and giddy when it did.

Shuri is fun, humorous, and nerdy like a lot of us gaffers are. Makia is a risk taker, and very stubborn, but loving of T'Challa and people like him (the CIA dude) and was ready to overthrow Killmonger immediately after his King challenge victory. The Killmonger was a good contrast to T'Challa and a reflection of some from the real world modern day climate, having lost his father and family at a tender young age where various influences are strongest to take hold. We can assume as he grows in body, his mind does not. It's us vs them ("oppressors"). The powerful rule (Kingship). The ends, justify the means (kills girlfriend and former allies). Vengence shall be mine. This outlook managed to take hold on The General's "lover" as well and so a rift and factions were made within Wakanda. Unfortunately, the movie didn't make the allegiances very deep beyond the bros following the "lover" and the sisters following The General (I don't remember their names, sorry).

I enjoyed the world building of Wakanda (traditions, religion, power chain, ect), but I'd have liked if the economics of it can be further developed. What is their currency? How do they gather food? Do they even eat/drink? They're isolationist so they don't trade (T'Challa might end this though). They're biggest resource appears to be vibrainium. It's feels like they are a lot more to explore here.

And one more thing I gotta talk about:

P.s: the soundtrack is awesome!
That soundtrack yo!!! The trailers had me worried with that lame rap stuff, but the score delivered the African vibes I was hoping for, plus that bass heavy catchy theme for the villain was cool. I'm so mad that the score does not have a physical CD release and is digital only at this time. I hope they come around and release a physical OST. Or release in WAV/FLAC. I ain't part of the MP3 crowd. :(
 
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#30
Lame rap stuff? Are you serious?

You’ll consider not seeing movie because a rap song is used in the trailer?

Have you actually listened to “Legend Has
It” by Run The Jewels, or Bagpak by Vince Staples (the two songs from the two trailers)?

That just seems like silly reasoning to me. If the trailers used Hank Williams songs would you have felt better?
 
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The movie was okay, a fun family film to watch. Killmonger was a bad enemy, did not buy his convictions for wanting to ruin Wakanda. Got a funny feeling that they would play it safe and they did for this film, way to safe if you ask me, theres a scene when they slit someones throat and not a single drop of blood, that pissed me off abit. That aside , i felt very little actual African influence, As an African i wanted to see actual scenes shot on location in Africa to showing the sun rise, I wanted to see African actors and actresses from Nollywood to East Africa. Nope. Even the album from Kendrick had zero African influences. Film was made to sell tickets and toys thats its i hate the politicization the world has put into this film
 
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Jun 6, 2004
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#33
He does, but I think the character development to reach that conclusion is weak. It's not like the events of the movie made T'Challa realize there was poverty in the world, from the very beginning we see that he knows that, is close to someone who pushes for more intervention, and he's all "not my problem". And nobody (but Nakia) gives him shit for that.
Towards the end of the movie, the thing that makes him sad/angry is "we've totally been unfair to my cousin". It's not that there are poor people out there, but that a member of their family had to endure it. If T'Chaka had taken the boy wit him, everything would have been fine for him, I guess.
As a matter of fact one has to wonder what made him change his mind and open Wakanda to the world. Did Killmonger's fight and death really "open his eyes" ? (as far as T'Challa's concerned, he's only been fighting to keep his throne, after all). Or was it just because "now the CIA knows about us, the cat is out of the bag, we may as well go public..."



Yeah that's also a weakness of the movie, but then it's logical considering the source material. It's a US-centric comic, so it has US-centric concerns/illustrations. The concept of a highly advanced country in Africa has a lot of potential indeed, and the way it's told doesn't always make sense from an African/international point of view, but well in the end it's still an American movie.
It's because a family member had to suffer that made him realize that he needed to help others. His goal at the start of the film was to take care of the people of Wakanda as their new king and was the reason why he was hesitant to help the world out when he and Nakia discussed it early on. Seeing how Erik turned out and was treated by the people around T'Challa despite having the same blood/fellow countrymen in his veins gave him a wake-up call. It mirrors what happens in real life where people become keenly aware of something when it encroaches on their own lives in some manner.
 
Aug 18, 2016
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#34
The movie was okay, a fun family film to watch. Killmonger was a bad enemy, did not buy his convictions for wanting to ruin Wakanda. Got a funny feeling that they would play it safe and they did for this film, way to safe if you ask me, theres a scene when they slit someones throat and not a single drop of blood, that pissed me off abit. That aside , i felt very little actual African influence, As an African i wanted to see actual scenes shot on location in Africa to showing the sun rise, I wanted to see African actors and actresses from Nollywood to East Africa. Nope. Even the album from Kendrick had zero African influences. Film was made to sell tickets and toys thats its i hate the politicization the world has put into this film
Today, I spoke with a South African named Samukelisiwe who was discussing how the language the Wakandans were using was a fusion of a couple African languages. To get more input, we invited her to a chicken fry I'm hosting.

Looking forward to hearing the opinions of an actual African.
 
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Dec 16, 2009
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#35
I just saw Black Panther and I love many parts of it. The cinematography of Wakanda was beautiful. However, the the cgi heavy fight scenes were a little distracting especially during the final fight scene between Erik and T'Challa. I wish it was more like Winter Soldier's fight scenes with no CGI.

Additionally, the Dora Milaje wasn't portrayed as being the real bad asses that they are. They should have handled the guys better than that. Again I wanted more epic Winter Soldier like fight scenes. More hand to hand or spear to spear combat. I'm talking intricate, detailed fight scenes. Also, Nakia vs Erik could have been longer and better as well.

Overall, I enjoyed the movie. I also thought the message was good. I think for those who didn't see the message of unity between black people and Wakandans is because they couldn't. Their mindset is simply one of divisiveness to begin with. Kilmonger was a byproduct of his environment. Even his father who saw all the pain and suffering that African Americans were going through wanted to help them but went about it the wrong way by betraying his people (once again a product of the environment he was in) and his son in the process. This message should not be lost on the AA community.

At the very least, i'm happy that this movie is facilitating discussion between AA and Africans. I hope through this discussion, we can all come out better people.

Lastly, I got a really pleasant surprise while watching the BP movie. Bethann Hardison sat three chairs down from me! As the credits were rolling, I went up to her and asked her if she was Bethanne Hardison. She said "yes" and I shook her hand and thanked her for everything that she has done. Homegirl was getting her life dancing to the music playing during the credits.

I truly enjoyed my Black Panther experience.
 
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Sep 13, 2007
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#36
Luke Cage has plenty of faults
He said superhero. Not B-tier hero that was relegated to a bad Netflix show. ;)
Lame rap stuff? Are you serious?

You’ll consider not seeing movie because a rap song is used in the trailer?

Have you actually listened to “Legend Has
It” by Run The Jewels, or Bagpak by Vince Staples (the two songs from the two trailers)?

That just seems like silly reasoning to me. If the trailers used Hank Williams songs would you have felt better?
Bro, hip hop has been TRASH for the past decade to many, many people. If the film was full of that modern shit that was in the trailer, I would have knocked it for that as well. But thankfully, like Spirit Icana said, the film actually had a good ORIGINAL soundtrack that didn't rely on licensed crap from today's hottest ringtone rappers.
So yeah, the movie deserves some props for that.
 
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Aug 18, 2016
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#41
I feel like some of the criticisms here are due to lack of paying attention.
It would seem so.

I have some legit critiques, but thought I'd let the topic flow naturally rather than by my own whims.

But for the record,
BP isn't a bad movie, but I went in with the wrong expectations. I was expecting a standard super hero movie where BP would kick butt and take names. What I got instead, was a movie titled "Black Panther" that was actually about everything else: Wakanda as an Afro-futuristic utopia, the Dora Milaje, the other powerful tribes that make up the kingdom, Killmonger's redemption, if you will. Even the final showdown between Killmonger and T'Challa ends more of a Shakespearan tragedy than the good guy triumphing over evil.[/spoilers]

I have other opinions, but I want to see the film again, going in with shifted expectations. Maybe I'll enjoy it more, maybe it will reinforce my grievances.
 
Jan 12, 2009
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#42
It would seem so.

I have some legit critiques, but thought I'd let the topic flow naturally rather than by my own whims.

But for the record,
BP isn't a bad movie, but I went in with the wrong expectations. I was expecting a standard super hero movie where BP would kick butt and take names. What I got instead, was a movie titled "Black Panther" that was actually about everything else: Wakanda as an Afro-futuristic utopia, the Dora Milaje, the other powerful tribes that make up the kingdom, Killmonger's redemption, if you will. Even the final showdown between Killmonger and T'Challa ends more of a Shakespearan tragedy than the good guy triumphing over evil.[/spoilers]

I have other opinions, but I want to see the film again, going in with shifted expectations. Maybe I'll enjoy it more, maybe it will reinforce my grievances.
But you liked the action right? Also I feel like the trailers were spot on in representation.
 
Aug 18, 2016
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#44
But you liked the action right? Also I feel like the trailers were spot on in representation.
Yeah, but needed more of it. This was more of a drama than an action movie.

What was the point of shoe horning the white agent in the movie to get one off “yur wyite!” Jokes? He served no purpose what so ever.
Tokenism.
 
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#45
Ross was in the film to keep the film connected to the other Marvel shit going on since he was in a previous film. It also helped be another force for Wakanda to open up to the rest of the world since they saved him and he was obligated to report what he had seen. The "another broken white boy" joke was pretty funny too.
 
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#46
Ross was in the film to keep the film connected to the other Marvel shit going on since he was in a previous film. It also helped be another force for Wakanda to open up to the rest of the world since they saved him and he was obligated to report what he had seen. The "another broken white boy" joke was pretty funny too.
I felt that the film was oddly disconnected from the rest of MCU. With the upcoming Avengers film I expected the after credits scenes to show something that would directly relate to that.
 
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As a black woman, I felt like Wakanda wouldn't accept me for who I am because of their holier-than-thou philosophy behind their motives and culture. Its funny who all my friends including me walked out of the theatre and started criticizing Wakanda for making us African Americans sound like blood-thirsty ignorants who wouldn't know how to utilize Vibranium without resorting to violence. Its still upsetting to me personally that I, an African American Woman, was depicted this way. There's alot of issues with the movie in its depiction of races and their philosophies.
 
Mar 23, 2008
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#50
As a black woman, I felt like Wakanda wouldn't accept me for who I am because of their holier-than-thou philosophy behind their motives and culture. Its funny who all my friends including me walked out of the theatre and started criticizing Wakanda for making us African Americans sound like blood-thirsty ignorants who wouldn't know how to utilize Vibranium without resorting to violence. Its still upsetting to me personally that I, an African American Woman, was depicted this way. There's alot of issues with the movie in its depiction of races and their philosophies.
Me, as an black man, thinks you misunderstood the point. As an African-American man it wasn’t hard to see that the whole point in the movie was the fact that Wakanda’s isolationism was a bad idea: something that, as just an African-America...err human being with eyes it wasn’t hard to see because every time the movie slowed down it was all “Its fucked up we keeping ourselves hidden while this tech can help people. Enough that me, as an african american leftist, felt like “y’all niggas need to get over this shit and get to fighting”. Its why they had the colonizer joke: the idea is that if the wide world would know they would exist they would invade Wakansa because its an evil dictstorship and they have weapons of mass destruction and we can eliminate them with our drones. Nor because they hated african americans, what the fuck did u watch? The neo-con gaf version of the movie?
 
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