Black Panther |OT| "In troubled times, wise men build bridges while fools build walls." [Unmarked Spoilers]

#51
Me, as an black man, thinks you misunderstood the point. As an African-American man it wasn’t hard to see that the whole point in the movie was the fact that Wakanda’s isolationism was a bad idea: something that, as just an African-America...err human being with eyes it wasn’t hard to see because every time the movie slowed down it was all “Its fucked up we keeping ourselves hidden while this tech can help people. Enough that me, as an african american leftist, felt like “y’all niggas need to get over this shit and get to fighting”. Its why they had the colonizer joke: the idea is that if the wide world would know they would exist they would invade Wakansa because its an evil dictstorship and they have weapons of mass destruction and we can eliminate them with our drones. Nor because they hated african americans, what the fuck did u watch? The neo-con gaf version of the movie?
Boiiiiiiiiiiii, you trippin.
 
#52
RedLetterMedia did their review:
A little bit of sanity in all of this.

A feel like all of these reviews giving the movie these insane scores for seemingly, shall we say, shallow reasons are doing nothing but building hate against it. There's nothing people hate more than overrated movies, in fact in tends to becomes cool to hate them.
 
#53
A feel like all of these reviews giving the movie these insane scores for seemingly, shall we say, shallow reasons are doing nothing but building hate against it. There's nothing people hate more than overrated movies, in fact in tends to becomes cool to hate them.
Uh, this is internet message boards were talking about here, its cool to hate everything.

But, dont worry, within a month people will be calling Black Panther the worst comic book movie ever made.
 
#54
They make good points. I agree that there was potential for a great movie based on the background of all characters, but the fact that it's a super-hero movie kind of ruins most of it. The most interesting parts were when Killmonger and T'Challa were talking to each other, and that's only a handful of minutes. There's too much time spent on less important fights in the first part, and the resolution of the issue quickly turns into another fight.
It's ok if people get hyped about it anyway, no reason to spoil their fun.
 
#55
Uh, this is internet message boards were talking about here, its cool to hate everything.

But, dont worry, within a month people will be calling Black Panther the worst comic book movie ever made.
Sure, but the more something is built up, the more people try to tear it down. And the tower that is Black Panther stands damn tall going off of the pro reviews. It'll especially be a target though, because without having seen the movie myself, from what I hear from more reasonable sources, it really isn't all that great, at least not one of the greatest movies of all time which is what the reviews would have you believe.
 
#56
Sure, but the more something is built up, the more people try to tear it down. And the tower that is Black Panther stands damn tall going off of the pro reviews. It'll especially be a target though, because without having seen the movie myself, from what I hear from more reasonable sources, it really isn't all that great, at least not one of the greatest movies of all time which is what the reviews would have you believe.
It's like this for any given Marvel movie these days, with the added excitement of new audiences jumping on the train.
 
#57
As a black woman, I felt like Wakanda wouldn't accept me for who I am because of their holier-than-thou philosophy behind their motives and culture. Its funny who all my friends including me walked out of the theatre and started criticizing Wakanda for making us African Americans sound like blood-thirsty ignorants who wouldn't know how to utilize Vibranium without resorting to violence. Its still upsetting to me personally that I, an African American Woman, was depicted this way. There's alot of issues with the movie in its depiction of races and their philosophies.
To be fair Wakanda probably doesn’t want you anyway, their very non-outsider.
 
#59
I understand that having a big budget movie with an all black cast is an important milestone and people are excited. But these hyperbolic reviews are insane.
It's an ok movie. No more, no less. At this point i think marvel can do no wrong. They can adapt anything to the big screen and it'll be decent. But never outstanding.
 
#60
We still give Marvel grief about Thor 2. Iron Man 3 isn't that great after the big reveal.

They are not invincible.

BP is a good movie. If you didn't think so, that's your right. Just be wary of being contrarian just for the lulz.
 
#61
Why is it only that two characters in the entire movie use the Panther battle suit? The suit seems to be one of their greatest technological marvels and yet only two characters have been shown using it.
 
#62
Why is it only that two characters in the entire movie use the Panther battle suit? The suit seems to be one of their greatest technological marvels and yet only two characters have been shown using it.
Tradition. Like isn't it meant to be given to the the guardian of wakanda, typically the king? Killmonger wore it, you know, just 'cause (and he was technically the king too I suppose).

It's the same thing as the heart-shaped herb as well.
 
#63
My only complaint is that they didn't show enough technology. And it did miss some more epicness, maybe if Kilmonger was able to successfully attack a city or something.
 
#64
We still give Marvel grief about Thor 2. Iron Man 3 isn't that great after the big reveal.

They are not invincible.

BP is a good movie. If you didn't think so, that's your right. Just be wary of being contrarian just for the lulz.
Those movies somehow still ended up very fresh on RT despite how shitty they were.
 
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#66
Saw this movie yesterday and I quite liked it. Its about on par with a Captain America film. Felt a little bad for Kilmonger as his actions were reasonable given his perspective, at the same time though there's a wierd stereotyping of African Americans and Africans into the two polarities of disenfranchised urban thug vs. mystical modern tribal going on.

Suburban Dave who works 9-5 and would watch Marvel movies seemed a bit left out and would likely be part of any real solution, as happens in current real life. See The Punisher's friend in the Netflix series for the sort of every day hero that was not part of the narrative.

Wakanda isn't the only urban area in Africa and if anything, they are not engaged in a war with colonialists insofar as immediate problems are concerned. Did Kilmonger mention Shanghai as one of the key cities to start his Wakandan tech infused revolution? I thought I heard that and wondered how this fit with his narrative. Also, if Kilmonger knew where Wakanda was, he could have killed Klaw much earlier and more easily when he was liberating him from Ross.

For all his effort and education, Kilmonger would likely not have his verbal drawl as if he grew up on the streets his whole life. Timing wise his quest for vengence meant working hard as soon as his dad died. He's an impressively self-made man based on the movie's own narrative so the movie should have respected that.

The movie is greatly carried by the impressive cast and whereas The Last Jedi was poblematic with its representation of female characters, the women in Black Panther were fantastic... and also probably the hottest women in a Marvel film (outside of Evangeline Lily). Not enough Daniel Kaluuya though, great actor but not enough material.
 
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#68
My only complaint is that they didn't show enough technology. And it did miss some more epicness, maybe if Kilmonger was able to successfully attack a city or something.
I would of loved that, honestly I didnt even expect him to be King at first. Once he did I was hyped to see if he could get his attack off.
Wakanda isn't the only urban area in Africa and if anything, they are not engaged in a war with colonialists insofar as immediate problems are concerned. Did Kilmonger mention Shanghai as one of the key cities to start his Wakandan tech infused revolution? I thought I heard that and wondered how this fit with his narrative. Also, if Kilmonger knew where Wakanda was, he could have killed Klaw much earlier and more easily when he was liberating him from Ross.
He did mention some Asian country/city, which plot wise doesn't make sense since he's trying to do right by the black community instead of trying to take over the world.
 
#69
He did mention some Asian country/city, which plot wise doesn't make sense since he's trying to do right by the black community instead of trying to take over the world.
I think the movie is a bit ambiguous on purpose on which population Killmonger wants to support. The black community is obviously his main concern (when he talks of "people looking like us" suffering around the world), but he never clearly says if the revolution he's promoting should happen only for black people or for all oppressed people.
I say it's made unclear on purpose because it's easier for the movie to target all audiences this way, and also avoids pushing an open message of "black supremacism". But on the other hand there is always that idea floating behind the plot, that it's about rich black Africans and poor black Americans.
 
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#70
Today, I spoke with a South African named Samukelisiwe who was discussing how the language the Wakandans were using was a fusion of a couple African languages. To get more input, we invited her to a chicken fry I'm hosting.

Looking forward to hearing the opinions of an actual African.
But...they're speaking Xhosa. Given the person you spoke with is Zulu she probably doesn't recognize Xhosa since Zulu and Xhosa don't sound much alike.
 
#71
That’s a great OT. I’d like it twice if I could.

FYI Gaf... nows a great time to watch 42. Any month is a great time to watch a Jackie Robinson movie/documentary
Thanks!

Saw this movie yesterday and I quite liked it. Its about on par with a Captain America film. Felt a little bad for Kilmonger as his actions were reasonable given his perspective, at the same time though there's a wierd stereotyping of African Americans and Africans into the two polarities of disenfranchised urban thug vs. mystical modern tribal going on.

Suburban Dave who works 9-5 and would watch Marvel movies seemed a bit left out and would likely be part of any real solution, as happens in current real life. See The Punisher's friend in the Netflix series for the sort of every day hero that was not part of the narrative.

Wakanda isn't the only urban area in Africa and if anything, they are not engaged in a war with colonialists insofar as immediate problems are concerned. Did Kilmonger mention Shanghai as one of the key cities to start his Wakandan tech infused revolution? I thought I heard that and wondered how this fit with his narrative. Also, if Kilmonger knew where Wakanda was, he could have killed Klaw much earlier and more easily when he was liberating him from Ross.

For all his effort and education, Kilmonger would likely not have his verbal drawl as if he grew up on the streets his whole life. Timing wise his quest for vengence meant working hard as soon as his dad died. He's an impressively self-made man based on the movie's own narrative so the movie should have respected that.

The movie is greatly carried by the impressive cast and whereas The Last Jedi was poblematic with its representation of female characters, the women in Black Panther were fantastic... and also probably the hottest women in a Marvel film (outside of Evangeline Lily). Not enough Daniel Kaluuya though, great actor but not enough material.
There is indeed an intra-racial subtext. I think the film tries to mend that conflict.

The sudden turn of the villains on each other is probably my 2nd greatest criticism of the movie. The first is that despite the title, the movie really isn't about T'Challa!

The Black Experience is vast. Even at top schools, one could, intentionally or not, speak with an "urban" cadence.

The women in this film are the strongest I have ever seen in any fiction. TBQH T'Challa is probably the weakest character in the whole enterprise.

Black Panther is a great movie, but not because it's a good movie.

I think people here will understand what I mean by that.
Yeah I got you.

I would of loved that, honestly I didnt even expect him to be King at first. Once he did I was hyped to see if he could get his attack off.

He did mention some Asian country/city, which plot wise doesn't make sense since he's trying to do right by the black community instead of trying to take over the world.
It was Asia/China or some generic location.

I think he's trying to do right by first the black community, and then POC at large. "Colonizers" and imperialists who capitalize on the exploitation of others are the enemy.

This movie has layers.
 
#72
I thought Kilmonger could have been a much better villain if he wasn't such a radical. In the movie, both T'challa and Kilmonger have opposite philosophies on how Wakanda should go about helping the outside world. They differ so much that their ideology is on the opposite end of the spectrum. Kilmonger's more violent approach makes sense with his upbring. He's tired of being disrespected, pushed around, discriminated against with no way of fighting back and once he managed to get a hold of power, he is going to want to use it to show the world that the Black community shouldn't be fucked with. T'challa on the other hand has a much more humanitarian approach and pretty much just your cliche good guy way of doing things. Kilmonger could have been such a good villain, and yet Marvel made him so easy to disagreed with. He could have been much more morally grey.
 
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#73
I think he's trying to do right by first the black community, and then POC at large. "Colonizers" and imperialists who capitalize on the exploitation of others are the enemy.
The concept of POC becomes unclear when you're dealing with worldwide considerations. Who are the "POC" in China ?
If he's supporting people being exploited, it doesn't have to do with race any more, but poverty. It becomes basic bolshevism.
 
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#74
The concept of POC becomes unclear when you're dealing with worldwide considerations. Who are the "POC" in China ?
If he's supporting people being exploited, it doesn't have to do with race any more, but poverty. It becomes basic bolshevism.
For clarity:

I think he's trying to do right by first the black community, and then POC at large. "Colonizers" and imperialists who capitalize on the exploitation of others are the enemy.

This movie has layers.
 
#75
Yeah but I was commenting on the following "then POC at large". When you reach the "then" it's not a matter of color any more, hence the trotskyist flavour.
 

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#76
People in America have it so good they had to make a fictional futuristic utopia to make it look bad...
 
#79
It was ok. Not better than civil war though. Wished they showed off more “advance tech” though. I really was expecting stuff hadn’t seen before.
 
#81
Wished they showed off more “advance tech” though. I really was expecting stuff hadn’t seen before.
They had a good start with the "solid holograms you can pick up and open like a toy" at the very beginning, but yeah that was the highest point of creativity for the technology they showed.
 
#82
I think the movie is a bit ambiguous on purpose on which population Killmonger wants to support. The black community is obviously his main concern (when he talks of "people looking like us" suffering around the world), but he never clearly says if the revolution he's promoting should happen only for black people or for all oppressed people.
I say it's made unclear on purpose because it's easier for the movie to target all audiences this way, and also avoids pushing an open message of "black supremacism". But on the other hand there is always that idea floating behind the plot, that it's about rich black Africans and poor black Americans.
Thanks!



There is indeed an intra-racial subtext. I think the film tries to mend that conflict.

The sudden turn of the villains on each other is probably my 2nd greatest criticism of the movie. The first is that despite the title, the movie really isn't about T'Challa!

The Black Experience is vast. Even at top schools, one could, intentionally or not, speak with an "urban" cadence.

The women in this film are the strongest I have ever seen in any fiction. TBQH T'Challa is probably the weakest character in the whole enterprise.



Yeah I got you.



It was Asia/China or some generic location.

I think he's trying to do right by first the black community, and then POC at large. "Colonizers" and imperialists who capitalize on the exploitation of others are the enemy.

This movie has layers.
Having a bunch Wakandans take over China and opress a different race doesn’t scream “Fight the Man, just the same colonizer bs he was raving against. But I could definitely see Disney telling them to tone down the “Black Supremecist” stuff, great motivation but you don’t want to make your audience too uncomfortable I guess. It just fits the character more to focus on the helping black people since the plot revolves around that and ended on that note.
 
#84
As a black woman, I felt like Wakanda wouldn't accept me for who I am because of their holier-than-thou philosophy behind their motives and culture. Its funny who all my friends including me walked out of the theatre and started criticizing Wakanda for making us African Americans sound like blood-thirsty ignorants who wouldn't know how to utilize Vibranium without resorting to violence. Its still upsetting to me personally that I, an African American Woman, was depicted this way. There's alot of issues with the movie in its depiction of races and their philosophies.
The movie actually made me thought of this
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Africanism

I think it had a very positive message.
 
#85
What has also bothered me a bit about Black Panther is his claws. It just seems out of place for a hero that's supposed to be this super good guy that doesn't like to hurt people. Isn't the point of claws to rend flesh? Has he even scratched anyone with it yet in these movies?
 
#87
What has also bothered me a bit about Black Panther is his claws. It just seems out of place for a hero that's supposed to be this super good guy that doesn't like to hurt people. Isn't the point of claws to rend flesh? Has he even scratched anyone with it yet in these movies?
He is the protector of his nation and will do anything to protect it. Even kill people. He is more like an elite soldier/king than a super hero. That's how i see it anyway. Didn't you watch civil war?
 
#88
What has also bothered me a bit about Black Panther is his claws. It just seems out of place for a hero that's supposed to be this super good guy that doesn't like to hurt people. Isn't the point of claws to rend flesh? Has he even scratched anyone with it yet in these movies?
Tire removal
 
#89
He is the protector of his nation and will do anything to protect it. Even kill people. He is more like an elite soldier/king than a super hero. That's how i see it anyway. Didn't you watch civil war?
Yes I saw Civil War. I saw a guy with superhuman reflexes and speed who can kick your ass in multiple ways cannot seem to hit anyone with his big claws. He would flash them in the beginning of a fight and then end up not landing a single scratch. If you fight BP I would expect you to come out disemboweled or at the very least blood streaming everywhere.
 
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#90
Yes I saw Civil War. I saw a guy with superhuman reflexes and speed who can kick your ass in multiple ways cannot seem to hit anyone with his big claws. He would flash them in the beginning of a fight and then end up not landing a single scratch. If you fight BP I would expect you to come out disemboweled or at the very least blood streaming everywhere.
Tell that to the soldiers at the beginning of the movie. Of course a marvel superhero movie won’t show a main character rending flesh hehehe

In Civil War, although i know what you mean, he held his own against other superheroes. I don’t think we should have expected him to wreck any of them.
 
#91
Yes I saw Civil War. I saw a guy with superhuman reflexes and speed who can kick your ass in multiple ways cannot seem to hit anyone with his big claws. He would flash them in the beginning of a fight and then end up not landing a single scratch. If you fight BP I would expect you to come out disemboweled or at the very least blood streaming everywhere.
There's a throat cut in BP and not a single drop of blood. It's a movie for the whole family! That's the marvel formula and it's unlikely to change soon.
Something like Logan, i assume, would never happen under marvel.
 
#92
When they took Everett in to be healed, Shuri says something like "another white boy to fix", lol. At first I was like whose the other one? Then in the very last after credits scene they show Bucky recovering with Shuri by his side. Well played.
 
#93
There's a throat cut in BP and not a single drop of blood. It's a movie for the whole family! That's the marvel formula and it's unlikely to change soon.
Something like Logan, i assume, would never happen under marvel.
By Marvel you mean Disney, right? Logan is still a Marvel movie, but by Fox.

OFC Disney would not make an R-rated movie.
 
#94
When they took Everett in to be healed, Shuri says something like "another white boy to fix", lol. At first I was like whose the other one? Then in the very last after credits scene they show Bucky recovering with Shuri by his side. Well played.
True, but we all knew Bucky was in Wakanda already because of the end credits of Civil War.
 
#95
Another decent superhero movie. Very safe, to the script, nothing too crazy. Going to be good leading into Infinity War.

Civil War and Winter Soldier remain the best in my book.
 
#97
Hey guys new member here.

Unfortunately I thought the movie was disappointing. Just to be clear I don't think it was bad but disappointing. I was really looking forward to this movie after how awesome I thought he was in Civil War.

There are two key issues with the movie. The major problem I had is that there were too many characters competing for the spotlight, this meant that T'challa came across as very unimpressive in comparison. In fact after a certain set of events in the movie
Being defeated by Killmonger fairly and then coming back still proclaiming to be king on a flimsy technicality is pretty unhero like
I just started thinking why AM I rooting for this guy?

The other key issue, and it may not seem like much, but frankly the action scenes are sub par. The editing the choreography and the pacing are a shambles. The reason why this is important is that put together with the first issue I had is that it amplifies how unimpressive T'challa is as the titular hero. I can't believe how much cooler he was in Civil War than he is in his own movie.

Onto the minor negatives which I won't go too much into:

i) I don't like the new suit.
ii) The cinematography during a lot night of the time scenes (early parts of the movie) is too dark, or perhaps it was the fault of the theatre I went to I dunno.
iii) Some of the humour feels forces and some just fell flat for me.
iv) The end the excessive use of CG is noticeable.

As for stuff I did like about the movie; I loved the main villains! Serkis as Klaue is awesome to watch and Michael B. Jordan was badass with a great backstort. I liked them so much I subconsciously started to root for the villains.
Then the Marvel villain syndrome hit and they're both dead now, which further serves as a negative.

I quite liked Martin Freeman's character (can't remember the name) and his growth throughout the film.

Some other minor positives:

i) I liked Wakanda.
ii) I liked T'chaka's Black Panther suit. I wish T'challa was given something like it than the CGI eyesore he was given.

Overall an alright movie but I'd only place it above Captain America: The first Avenger and Thor: The Dark World.
 

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#99
There's a throat cut in BP and not a single drop of blood. It's a movie for the whole family! That's the marvel formula and it's unlikely to change soon.
Something like Logan, i assume, would never happen under marvel.
You're probably right, but I really don't care in the context of these movies. They're generic super hero flicks, you don't expect them to go far beyond PG13. If they start doing Deadpool and such though and ruin it with censorship, then I'll be pissed...
 
You're probably right, but I really don't care in the context of these movies. They're generic super hero flicks, you don't expect them to go far beyond PG13. If they start doing Deadpool and such though and ruin it with censorship, then I'll be pissed...
I think eventually marvel will need to change the formula and take some risks. I know i am tired of these movies. Can't remember the last time i was excited to watch a super hero flick.
Fox did a lot of wrong but they took risks with logan and deadpool and it paid off.