Black Panther |OT| "In troubled times, wise men build bridges while fools build walls." [Unmarked Spoilers]

Feb 2, 2006
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I understand that having a big budget movie with an all black cast is an important milestone and people are excited. But these hyperbolic reviews are insane.
It's an ok movie. No more, no less. At this point i think marvel can do no wrong. They can adapt anything to the big screen and it'll be decent. But never outstanding.
Cool. That's your opinion.

Many others think it's more than an "ok movie" and don't agree with that reviews are "hyperbolic."
 
Aug 18, 2016
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I think eventually marvel will need to change the formula and take some risks. I know i am tired of these movies. Can't remember the last time i was excited to watch a super hero flick.
Fox did a lot of wrong but they took risks with logan and deadpool and it paid off.
Venom is coming to a theater near you this fall.
 
Jun 24, 2014
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So I saw Black Panther with my wife last night, and I went in hyped due to all the amazing reviews. When it was over I was sort of in a weird place with this movie. My wife certainly liked it, and I thoroughly enjoyed everything up to the claw was killed, but then it just sort of fell flat.

I have thought about it all day and I think the reason why I didn't like this movie is that it resembles a great marvel movie for the first half and then becomes an inoffensive Disney animated movie in the second half. Honestly, other than Killmonger preaching pretty much directly at the audience, which I didn't mind, the movie itself was insanely safe and the whole usurper plot could have been pulled from a new Disney princess movie.

Also, how are all of the edged weapons used and not a single drop of blood is spilled. I just saw a star wars movie where heads literally rolled and I cannot even get a trickle of blood when a woman gets her throat cut or somebody gets impaled? I guess I have been watching a lot of Altered Carbon so not seeing gore is something new...lol.

Anyways, I loved the visualization of Wakanda, and like Blank Panther as a character (actor is good too!). Actually, all of the actors did a great job but the plot post South Korea was just boring as hell with some really strange character behavior.

Anyways, those are just my thoughts, I would put this movie somewhere near the bottom of all the marvel movies which sucks since I was so hyped. Last years Thor Ragnarok and Winter Soldier haven't been topped yet.
 
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Likes: voidenberg
Dec 11, 2008
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They really squandered Killmonger in the movie the more I think about it, while I like Klaw they should have cut him and focus more on Killmonger because when he eventually showed up again the actions felt really rushed.
 
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Anyways, I loved the visualization of Wakanda, and like Blank Panther as a character (actor is good too!). Actually, Anyways, those are just my thoughts, I would put this movie somewhere near the bottom of all the marvel movies which sucks since I was so hyped. Last years Thor Ragnarok and Winter Soldier haven't been topped yet.
I feel the same way. Winter Soldier and Thor Ragnarok are definitely my fave of the bunch, I'd say they're in the top tier of the MCU.

This movie has a lot of flaws, but I think once the hype dies down I think more and more people are going to realise that.
 
Likes: voidenberg
Dec 2, 2010
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I feel the same way. Winter Soldier and Thor Ragnarok are definitely my fave of the bunch, I'd say they're in the top tier of the MCU.

This movie has a lot of flaws, but I think once the hype dies down I think more and more people are going to realise that.
Eh, the flaws are mostly minor so I don't think there is going to be that big a turn really. It didn't quite elevate itself into the best superhero movie since unbreakable like I was hoping but it's easily still a top 5 MCU flick.
 

Alx

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I'll nibble on the bait then, but I'll admit I wondered while watching the movie how people would have reacted if the exact same movie had been made by a non-black director. For example I raised a very surprised eyebrow when M'Baku and his tribe started barking ape noises. It's something that would have been considered racist in many other contexts.
In the case of Wakanda, is it really a compliment to consider that the best an African nation can do with unlimited technology and wealth is a dictatorship with primitive ritual fights ? Even the traditional costumes raise a few questions, it reminded me of my brother in law who spent half his career in Africa, and is always annoyed when all people will ask him about is djembes, tribes and ritual masks.

There is definitely this idea that Wakanda is how a (former colonialist) foreigner would imagine a rich African country. "Powerful but still with primitive elements".
 
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Jan 12, 2018
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I'll nibble on the bait then, but I'll admit I wondered while watching the movie how people would have reacted if the exact same movie had been made by a non-black director. For example I raised a very surprised eyebrow when M'Baku and his tribe started barking ape noises. It's something that would have been considered racist in many other contexts.
In the case of Wakanda, is it really a compliment to consider that the best an African nation can do with unlimited technology and wealth is a dictatorship with primitive ritual fights ? Even the traditional costumes raise a few questions, it reminded me of my brother in law who spent half his career in Africa, and is always annoyed when all people will ask him about is djembes, tribes and ritual masks.

There is definitely this idea that Wakanda is how a (former colonialist) foreigner would imagine a rich African country. "Powerful but still with primitive elements".

I suppose some of it is drawing inspiration from Shaka Zulu... wanting to reflect that authenticity that is accessible!?
 

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Dec 13, 2016
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I'll nibble on the bait then, but I'll admit I wondered while watching the movie how people would have reacted if the exact same movie had been made by a non-black director. For example I raised a very surprised eyebrow when M'Baku and his tribe started barking ape noises. It's something that would have been considered racist in many other contexts.
In the case of Wakanda, is it really a compliment to consider that the best an African nation can do with unlimited technology and wealth is a dictatorship with primitive ritual fights ? Even the traditional costumes raise a few questions, it reminded me of my brother in law who spent half his career in Africa, and is always annoyed when all people will ask him about is djembes, tribes and ritual masks.

There is definitely this idea that Wakanda is how a (former colonialist) foreigner would imagine a rich African country. "Powerful but still with primitive elements".
Wow that's... that's just crazy. Meanwhile we have riots over an H&M advertisement. What is this world, man?
 
Dec 5, 2008
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I'll nibble on the bait then, but I'll admit I wondered while watching the movie how people would have reacted if the exact same movie had been made by a non-black director. For example I raised a very surprised eyebrow when M'Baku and his tribe started barking ape noises. It's something that would have been considered racist in many other contexts.
In the case of Wakanda, is it really a compliment to consider that the best an African nation can do with unlimited technology and wealth is a dictatorship with primitive ritual fights ? Even the traditional costumes raise a few questions, it reminded me of my brother in law who spent half his career in Africa, and is always annoyed when all people will ask him about is djembes, tribes and ritual masks.

There is definitely this idea that Wakanda is how a (former colonialist) foreigner would imagine a rich African country. "Powerful but still with primitive elements".
I guess it depends on the individual - I never questioned how often the n-word was used in Quentin Tarantino's Django Unchained. I simply enjoyed the movie. Never once did I think about how someone like Steven Spielberg could make a film like The Color Purple. I simply enjoyed the movie.
The ape noises make sense to me - Man-Ape is the moniker of M'Baku, his thrown room sits on the arms of a giant ape statue, etc. It was completely in context, so no need for a raised eyebrow from me.
 
Feb 17, 2018
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I'll nibble on the bait then, but I'll admit I wondered while watching the movie how people would have reacted if the exact same movie had been made by a non-black director. For example I raised a very surprised eyebrow when M'Baku and his tribe started barking ape noises. It's something that would have been considered racist in many other contexts.
In the case of Wakanda, is it really a compliment to consider that the best an African nation can do with unlimited technology and wealth is a dictatorship with primitive ritual fights ? Even the traditional costumes raise a few questions, it reminded me of my brother in law who spent half his career in Africa, and is always annoyed when all people will ask him about is djembes, tribes and ritual masks.

There is definitely this idea that Wakanda is how a (former colonialist) foreigner would imagine a rich African country. "Powerful but still with primitive elements".
I think you've got it wrong. If you are American, I'm sure you would miss it as your nation is relatively young and advance, the USA has skipped a beat that other nations in the world have gone through.

The UK is an older country and as advance as the US. We have soldiers dress up in silly costumes from the past.

Our Police officers wear a funny hat from a 100 years ago when walking around because "tradition"
 
Likes: Osukaa
Aug 18, 2016
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Judging by their previous movies i don't think they can do the character justice. And venom without spidey is like supes without krypton.
Spiderman is integral to venom's origin. Venom is the anti-spiderman.
I own all of Venom's solo runs. They have plenty of material to work with.

Going to see BP again today with different expectations.
 
Likes: voidenberg
Nov 11, 2013
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I thought Kilmonger could have been a much better villain if he wasn't such a radical. In the movie, both T'challa and Kilmonger have opposite philosophies on how Wakanda should go about helping the outside world. They differ so much that their ideology is on the opposite end of the spectrum. Kilmonger's more violent approach makes sense with his upbring. He's tired of being disrespected, pushed around, discriminated against with no way of fighting back and once he managed to get a hold of power, he is going to want to use it to show the world that the Black community shouldn't be fucked with. T'challa on the other hand has a much more humanitarian approach and pretty much just your cliche good guy way of doing things. Kilmonger could have been such a good villain, and yet Marvel made him so easy to disagreed with. He could have been much more morally grey.
Yeah I feel the same way. I get that Killmonger has seen some shit but he just felt way to radical in his views. I wanted to like him but I was like fck this dude and to me he became another throw away villain. His end quote felt like it was forced on him and didn't really register to me as meaningful as it could have been if he had been a bit more relatable. If he had shown some compassion to at least some people in Wakanda instead of him being all burn this shit down were starting wars to kill everyone who I feel has done me/us wrong.
With that said I didn't want him to die cause I feel he could have been a great future character if he would have more time to develop in future films. I guess it would have been a copy of Magneto but I think Killmonger could have still been a good character to keep around in case they decide to have a bunch of villian's team up lol. I liked M Jordan as far as his acting and wish he could have stayed in the MCU for more than just this one film.

Anyway I really enjoyed the movie and for me the females stole the show. Especially the main guard (sorry to lazy to look up the name). I cannot wait to see them in the next avengers film. I would say that Black Panther is now one of my favorite Marvel films and I will see it again this weekend. Chadwick was good but I found myself more interested in the side characters a bit more than him. Which takes nothing away from Black Panther himself, its just a compliment of how great the rest of the cast is in my opinion.

I also really loved that the black cast was not treated as all hood or ghetto which many films about black people seem to aim at. (Barbershop, Friday, Boyz in the Hood, Madea, etc etc). As a person of color myself (Hispanic here) I hope other races and ethnicities get their time to show that we are all more than just 1 sided personalities. I don't know how to put it in better words sorry about that. So overall I loved the film with all its flaws as to me it was just a scratch of the surface to what a "superhero" can be.
 
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Jan 31, 2011
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Fantastic movie

I wish was more pushing political issues in Africa, outside the one character who wants to save small groups of people via being a spy. Very USA centric, then again Hong Kong being the first of 3 targets kinda pushes that lol
 
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Aug 18, 2016
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Saw the very first showing available to the general public, and I'm just now seeing it a second time.



Going in knowing that t'challa isn't depicted in this film as strong as people on the internet have made black panther to be (" black Batman with superpowers"), I enjoyed the movie more.



It still bothers me that for plot reasons and demonstrations to the audience, he takes more hits then say, Captain America who would be killed if he took that kind of damage without a suit.



I am still confused about the double cross scene at the airplane graveyard. I guess killmonger needed get close to Klaue to kill him, and the only way to do that was to demonstrate that he could Source vibranium for him?
 
Oct 24, 2017
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Just saw this last night and I thought it was fantastic. Needless to say, as a white middle-aged father, I connected with Kilmonger as we share the same sentiment about having estranged aunties.

Overall, the movie I give is 7.35/10.
 
Feb 20, 2018
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I'm still confused about the double cross scene at the airplane graveyard. I guess killmonger needed get close to Klaue to kill him, and the only way to do that was to demonstrate that he could Source vibranium for him?
Killmonger was only working with Klaue so he could get into Wakanda and earn a chance to have an audience with the council.
He had Kalue steal the vibranium from the museum to attract the attention of Black Panther. He then broke Klaue out of custody just so BP would have to go back as a failure for not capturing him.
The double cross scene at the plane happened because Klaue was always a pawn and Killmonger was going to use his death to undermine BP's leadership back in Wakanda and open up that opportunity to overthrow him.
 
Nov 12, 2009
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its the same type of hype train I feel people get from watching netflix marvel shows. the plot was too easy even though i totally enjoyed how warmonger ravaged /tchalla. I absolutely hated how they had bucky in the post credits. the rest of the movie was fairly marvel typical. I felt it was a good ol 7/10. was kinda hoping to see more cameos but thats later. The stan lee moment was disappointing for me
 
Nov 14, 2017
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I enjoyed it. I bought the second to last seat available at my showing today. I was really hoping it wouldn't be a racially divisive movie and I'm pleased to say that I feel that on the whole, it promoted racial unity. The villain wants to start race wars and revolutions in retribution for past racial injustices against blacks. The great noble black king opposes him and condemns his evil desire for revenge and armed conflict. T'Challa tells the UN at the end that humanity must live like we are "one tribe." I thought that was nice.

I love that T'Challa is fairly serious, stoic and forgiving. He spared the life of Zemo who killed his father (in Civil War). He mercifully brought Killmonger to view the beautiful vista as he was dying. This was the very man who tried to murder his girlfriend and sister and who stole his throne. I love how virtuous he is. Not a weakling pacifist, but a strong warrior who is capable of showing mercy to those who have done him great injustice. This shows us his tremendous self-control and moral goodness, making him more kingly and more worthy of the throne. "It's hard for a good man to be king."

I look forward to seeing more of him in Infinity War.
 
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Nov 14, 2017
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I drove by this car at McDonald's right before watching BP and it struck me as a pretty solid Black Panthermobile. Someone want to start a GoFundMe for Mister Apoc?

 
Jan 12, 2009
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I enjoyed it. I bought the second to last seat available at my showing today. I was really hoping it wouldn't be a racially divisive movie and I'm pleased to say that I feel that on the whole, it promoted racial unity. The villain wants to start race wars and revolutions in retribution for past racial injustices against blacks. The great noble black king opposes him and condemns his evil desire for revenge and armed conflict. T'Challa tells the UN at the end that humanity must live like we are "one tribe." I thought that was nice.

I love that T'Challa is fairly serious, stoic and forgiving. He spared the life of Zemo who killed his father (in Civil War). He mercifully brought Killmonger to view the beautiful vista as he was dying. This was the very man who tried to murder his girlfriend and sister and who stole his throne. I love how virtuous he is. Not a weakling pacifist, but a strong warrior who is capable of showing mercy to those who have done him great injustice. This shows us his tremendous self-control and moral goodness, making him more kingly and more worthy of the throne. "It's hard for a good man to be king."

I look forward to seeing more of him in Infinity War.
Nice post, I found it inspiring to read.
 
Likes: VAL0R
Feb 16, 2018
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Eh, the flaws are mostly minor so I don't think there is going to be that big a turn really. It didn't quite elevate itself into the best superhero movie since unbreakable like I was hoping but it's easily still a top 5 MCU flick.
I wouldn't call the flaws minor. For being the titular hero Black Panther is outshined in numerous ways by the supporting characters.

His sister makes his gadgets and suits; his general appears to be the more disciplined better fighter and has the most memorable fight scene out of the whole movie; and his girlfriend is the one who was proven right all along since the start of the movie about Wakanda providing more help.

Contrast him with Killmonger who's not only more driven and with clear goals in mind from almost the beginning, he's a self made man. Rises up and cleverly positions himself to fairly challenge T'challa in a duel in order to claim the throne - and he succeeds. T'challa/Black Panther is overall a castrated hero.

To rub more salt in the wound he comes back after his defeat and claims he's still King on the flimsy technicality that he didn't yield and is still alive.

Sorry, to me me that's just hypocrisy, he was thoroughly thrashed by Killmonger and was chucked off the cliff! The movie seemed to me to try and present T'challa as being righteous simply because Killmonger is a warmonger. Straight up double standards IMO from T'challa and co. to simply disregard their tradition and custom just because the outcone didn't suit them.

Also the CGI final fight and poorly choreographed action, with poor pacing and editing isn't going to stand the test of time. To reference another thread this is no Terminator 2.
 
Likes: voidenberg
Jul 27, 2014
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I wouldn't call the flaws minor. For being the titular hero Black Panther is outshined in numerous ways by the supporting characters.

His sister makes his gadgets and suits; his general appears to be the more disciplined better fighter and has the most memorable fight scene out of the whole movie; and his girlfriend is the one who was proven right all along since the start of the movie about Wakanda providing more help.

Contrast him with Killmonger who's not only more driven and with clear goals in mind from almost the beginning, he's a self made man. Rises up and cleverly positions himself to fairly challenge T'challa in a duel in order to claim the throne - and he succeeds. T'challa/Black Panther is overall a castrated hero.

To rub more salt in the wound he comes back after his defeat and claims he's still King on the flimsy technicality that he didn't yield and is still alive.

Sorry, to me me that's just hypocrisy, he was thoroughly thrashed by Killmonger and was chucked off the cliff! The movie seemed to me to try and present T'challa as being righteous simply because Killmonger is a warmonger. Straight up double standards IMO from T'challa and co. to simply disregard their tradition and custom just because the outcone didn't suit them.

Also the CGI final fight and poorly choreographed action, with poor pacing and editing isn't going to stand the test of time. To reference another thread this is no Terminator 2.
T'challa is presented more righteous because he is more righteous. Killmonger straight-up wanted to be a dictator and this was made clear when he order to have one of the most sacred place in Wakanda burned to the ground.
 
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Nov 14, 2017
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To rub more salt in the wound he comes back after his defeat and claims he's still King on the flimsy technicality that he didn't yield and is still alive.

Sorry, to me me that's just hypocrisy, he was thoroughly thrashed by Killmonger and was chucked off the cliff! The movie seemed to me to try and present T'challa as being righteous simply because Killmonger is a warmonger. Straight up double standards IMO from T'challa and co. to simply disregard their tradition and custom just because the outcone didn't suit them.
I disagree. There are two very simple rules to be victor in the ritual throne battle, as far as I can tell. 1) You must kill your opponent, or, 2) Your opponent must yield. That's it. Killmonger was sloppy and arrogant to just throw T'Challa into the chasm below and assume his death. T'Challa has every right to insist the ritual battle is still ongoing because Killmonger has certainly not met the conditions of victory. T'Challa is both alive and unyielding.
 

Alx

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Jan 22, 2007
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I disagree. There are two very simple rules to be victor in the ritual throne battle, as far as I can tell. 1) You must kill your opponent, or, 2) Your opponent must yield. That's it. Killmonger was sloppy and arrogant to just throw T'Challa into the chasm below and assume his death. T'Challa has every right to insist the ritual battle is still ongoing because Killmonger has certainly not met the conditions of victory. T'Challa is both alive and unyielding.
As a matter of fact Killmonger's mistake was killing Zuri (Whittaker), who was judging the fight. The technicality would be that since the umpire is dead, the victor can't be officially declared, and the fight is invalid. But since everybody watching the fight seems to recognize and accept that Killmonger won, that makes him the legitimate king. The loser can appeal the decision, but until that is judged by another authority, he's still the loser.
Now I don't remember the exact words of Zuri before he died, but he clearly behaved like he recognized Killmonger's victory (and asked him to take his life instead of T'Challa's). When the umpire stops the fight, it means it's over and a victor has been found.
 
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Feb 16, 2018
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T'challa is presented more righteous because he is more righteous. Killmonger straight-up wanted to be a dictator and this was made clear when he order to have one of the most sacred place in Wakanda burned to the ground.
That justifies the double standards? Where in the rules do they state that the victors of the duel must be a righteous person?

His family immediately commits treason just because they didn't like the outcome. As soon as T'challa is presumed dead that's when they decide to seek help from the tribe that they have been politically marginalising all this time. I didn't see them complaining when T'challa was winning.

I disagree. There are two very simple rules to be victor in the ritual throne battle, as far as I can tell. 1) You must kill your opponent, or, 2) Your opponent must yield. That's it. Killmonger was sloppy and arrogant to just throw T'Challa into the chasm below and assume his death. T'Challa has every right to insist the ritual battle is still ongoing because Killmonger has certainly not met the conditions of victory. T'Challa is both alive and unyielding.
I am fully aware of the conditions, that's why I call it a very flimsy technicality.

T'challa just doesn't come off looking very good in this movie.
 
Nov 14, 2017
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As a matter of fact Killmonger's mistake was killing Zuri (Whittaker), who was judging the fight. The technicality would be that since the umpire is dead, the victor can't be officially declared, and the fight is invalid. But since everybody watching the fight seems to recognize and accept that Killmonger won, that makes him the legitimate king. The loser can appeal the decision, but until that is judged by another authority, he's still the loser.
Now I don't remember the exact words of Zuri before he died, but he clearly behaved like he recognized Killmonger's victory (and asked him to take his life instead of T'Challa's). When the umpire stops the fight, it means it's over and a victor has been found.
I forgot that Zuri actually blocked Killmonger's killing blow with his spear.
 
Nov 3, 2013
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I found this movie very, very BORING with a very predictable plot, a totally uninteresting "plot twist" (rsly who the hell cares), scenes directly taken from every 007 movie, the BP ritual 3 god damn times, 2 duels making the 2nd totally predictable, big baddass guy "lol we are not going to help you but in the end we will"...ugh. I only watched it because Infinity wars is coming but GOSH I had to give every atom of my body to not fell asleep while watching it.
 
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I liked the movie when it was doing the international spy sections and Q was showing Bond -- I mean Shuri was showing T'Challa -- his new gear and weapons. I half expected him to be driving an Ashton Martin too. The whole casino section was straight out of Skyfall.

The story wasn't as strong as the characters were. I wanted Klaue and Killmonger to be alive at the end of the film or at least Klaue to get away. Maybe he'll get resurrected by Thanos in Infinity War somehow.
 
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Just another mediocre marvel movie.

The technology in wakanda is so over the top it breaks my suspension of disbelief.
The CGI was terrible. Please stop with CGI dummies punching each other. It never looks good.

Killmonger's plan makes no sense. Send super weapons to fight opression in london? Hong Kong? What opression?
You know what would've been a good plan? Take over africa. Kill all whiteys, i mean colonizers there. Hell, enslave them.
Turn the african continent into a wakandan empire. A black supremacist nation. Killmonger, the black hitler. This would have made him a cool villain. Instead of a big tits bimbo. Who has the biggest man tits? Kylo Ren or Killmonger?

It's like there's no africa outside of wakanda. Africa, a continent plagued with poverty, disease and where slavery still exists. No, lets help those american kids. The audience will love it. The only black man that matters is the one being opressed somehow by Trump.
I love how T'Challa creates an international aid center in the USA. You know, the richest most powerful country in the world.

I know it's supposed to be just another braindead escapism film we'll have forgotten in a week. Maybe i'm just being bitter. But i found some of the plot points insulting.
Some good points here. I accepted Killmonger's insane plan as madness from a madman. Delusional and clouded by hate. But I agree it weakens him and makes him look childish intellectually. I love your idea about first transforming Africa into a vast Wakandan empire that would dominate it's neighbors and then advance militarily into other continents. Just putting some laser spears in the hands of civilian gangsters in the US and London will obviously do little.
 
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Jan 15, 2018
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Some good points here. I accepted Killmonger's insane plan as madness from a madman. Delusional and clouded by hate. But I agree it weakens him and makes him look childish intellectually. I love your idea about first transforming Africa into a vast Wakandan empire that would dominate it's neighbors and then advance militarily into other continents. Just putting some laser spears in the hands of civilian gangsters in the US and London will obviously do little.
Well, in the end it's just a super hero movie set in a fantasy world. In this context his plan makes sense.
 
Jul 27, 2014
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That justifies the double standards? Where in the rules do they state that the victors of the duel must be a righteous person?

His family immediately commits treason just because they didn't like the outcome. As soon as T'challa is presumed dead that's when they decide to seek help from the tribe that they have been politically marginalising all this time. I didn't see them complaining when T'challa was winning.


I am fully aware of the conditions, that's why I call it a very flimsy technicality.

T'challa just doesn't come off looking very good in this movie.
T'Challa is family. Of course they want to support the son no matter the outcome. It was also assumed that Kilmonger would kill off the ex-royal family right when he got into power so there was that. It was why they were frantically trying to get out of the city. So yes, it is understandable why they would commit treason when their lives were on the line.
 
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wondermega

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Decent movie, I wasn't rushing to see it but my girlfriend wanted to catch it. Anyway I'm pretty superhero movie'd out at this stage (aren't we all?) so watching the film felt like the usual tropes, with a couple of variations. I'll put that on Marvel and Disney though, they love to rely on that, and the audience still seems to crave it.
I was actually refreshed to see their handling of Klaw in the movie, didn't realize he would have his sonic arm cannon- disappointed to see him get killed, as in the comic he's actually a fairly interesting character (made of sound and all of that). I guess it's not impossible he could resurface, but I'll not hold my breath. Bigger issue for me in this case was that I'm just plum TIRED of "evil version of good character" I'm just beyond over it. It was sensible in Iron Man, but now it's been done to beyond death. Just stop already..
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Caught it and it was decent, tried but not really delivering the hype to me.
BP was a weak hero and boring at that, granted im bored with the wise cracking heroes. As with the other views, the women stole the show.

Lack of quips and jokes in this one. The monkey chief needed more airtime, seems like a cool side character. The ending battle felt weak, i didnt feel the build up as to why the rhino tribe wanted to follow a 1 day old dictator into war.

The first half was better. The Gold panther villian is more forgettable than previous forgettable MCU villian. I think he should have lived for the sequel, Golem was looking the better villian, but i get why he must die to further the plot.
 
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Just saw it. Was amazed!

But i think the word is “barriers” not walls
I intentionally mis-quoted the line twice.

I am only mentioning this now because a whole week has passed, and have gotten my amusement out of people who keep telling me that T'Challa says barriers instead of walls while not noticing the other part that is wrong, too.

I think my experiment is very telling, lol.
 
Sep 2, 2013
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I intentionally mis-quoted the line twice.

I am only mentioning this now because a whole week has passed, and have gotten my amusement out of people who keep telling me that T'Challa says barriers instead of walls while not noticing the other part that is wrong, too.

I think my experiment is very telling, lol.
I dont know what the experient was all about but that was the word i thought i heard at the end.
 
Aug 18, 2016
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As a matter of fact Killmonger's mistake was killing Zuri (Whittaker), who was judging the fight. The technicality would be that since the umpire is dead, the victor can't be officially declared, and the fight is invalid. But since everybody watching the fight seems to recognize and accept that Killmonger won, that makes him the legitimate king. The loser can appeal the decision, but until that is judged by another authority, he's still the loser.
Now I don't remember the exact words of Zuri before he died, but he clearly behaved like he recognized Killmonger's victory (and asked him to take his life instead of T'Challa's). When the umpire stops the fight, it means it's over and a victor has been found.
Sounds reasonable to me.
 
Jan 3, 2018
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So I just saw Black Panther last night and I want to give some take aways.

1) I am very familar with the Black Panther comic and prior to this I had experience in both reading the comic and other media regarding it.

These were my views on Black Panther and Wakanda as stated below. It was a colonialist re-imagining of Africa while adhering it to Western standards of technology, philosophy, and beauty. I will admit I was actual exceedingly repulsed by the prospect that they would be bring Black Panther to the mainstream universe as I felt it would only further instill stereotypes of what African countries are and have been. One of my greatest concerns was the presentation of Wakanda as a homogeneous tribal community who happened to have technology which looks and operates as advanced western levels. There were other concerns and it was really in relation to being unfamiliar with the the perception surrounding African countries.

The concept of Wakanda is both inspiring and terribly sad, the closest to an African Utopia we can get in reality is that of an old white mans comic design.
I'll nibble on the bait then, but I'll admit I wondered while watching the movie how people would have reacted if the exact same movie had been made by a non-black director. For example I raised a very surprised eyebrow when M'Baku and his tribe started barking ape noises. It's something that would have been considered racist in many other contexts.
In the case of Wakanda, is it really a compliment to consider that the best an African nation can do with unlimited technology and wealth is a dictatorship with primitive ritual fights ? Even the traditional costumes raise a few questions, it reminded me of my brother in law who spent half his career in Africa, and is always annoyed when all people will ask him about is djembes, tribes and ritual masks.

There is definitely this idea that Wakanda is how a (former colonialist) foreigner would imagine a rich African country. "Powerful but still with primitive elements".
1) I was unbelievably surprised and blown away. I 1000% recommend this movie. There was an incredible amount of research and reverence which to be honest I did not expect to find in a Disney/Marvel film. The capture of the identity struggle of Ancestral Slave Africans being a separate identity than Africans was captured, while I think it could have been better explored and emphasized, the fact that it existed at all was 100 steps in the right direction.

2) The importance of having a black director. At first I felt that having a black cast and director would have no tangible benefit. As I had said I was already familiar with the concepts of Wakanda and Black Panther and felt that the use of black cast and director would be for promotion purposes only. I was shamefully wrong. This is not to say a director or actors of other races would not do well in the position, however. The context allowed a black director to understand the subtly in the identity issue which is core to the black panther plot. I mean the re-envisioning of this was astounding. Even the technologies taking on more organic and less western forms. Just unbelieveable.

3) The cast and crew were young. I think my only regret is that this was not handled by older, more seasoned veterans but this is wholly unfair because it is their young talent which created and re-envisioned this story and world to begin with.
I'm both frustrated because I can see where the crew and cast are inexperienced in the development of the movie, however the movie concept as it sits now would not stand if not for those involved.

In the end it was far far far better and exceeded my expectations of what I though a Marvel/Disney Super hero movie about Black Panther would be. Yet it saddens me that the only way we were able to get this gem is from the inexperienced minds of those willing to take those risks. Ryan Coogler is to be commended and it truly a rising star of a director. If, I had to quantify this it would be like seeing Steven Spielberg create Jurassic Park in the early stages of his career rather than later. Knowing that one of his most iconic masterpieces would have been better with more experience.

All that being said, I want in another 5-10 years after Ryan has had some other work, for him to revisit Wakanda in earnest. Not as an action superhero story but as an honest critique of society.
 
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Some good points here. I accepted Killmonger's insane plan as madness from a madman. Delusional and clouded by hate. But I agree it weakens him and makes him look childish intellectually. I love your idea about first transforming Africa into a vast Wakandan empire that would dominate it's neighbors and then advance militarily into other continents. Just putting some laser spears in the hands of civilian gangsters in the US and London will obviously do little.
No Killmonger is an anarchist. As stated in the movie his only skill and motive is government destabilization. An influx of weaponry which governments cannot police against is the fastest way to create global destabilization.
He really had no plan for Wakanda or ruling beyond that which is what was exactly said of him in the movie.
 
Aug 18, 2016
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No Killmonger is an anarchist. As stated in the movie his only skill and motive is government destabilization. An influx of weaponry which governments cannot police against is the fastest way to create global destabilization.
He really had no plan for Wakanda or ruling beyond that which is what was exactly said of him in the movie.
He was more of an imperialist than an anarchist. It would be Law and Order, just with Wakanda at the top.
 
Jan 31, 2011
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Kingdom seem set to be ready for war time anyway, stockpile of guns (which one was stolen) and 1 tribe walks around with Basuto blankets which turn into 10 by 3 foot laser shields.
Kinda weird peacetime based on the movies intro, he's kinda enabled.
 
Nov 14, 2017
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Kingdom seem set to be ready for war time anyway, stockpile of guns (which one was stolen) and 1 tribe walks around with Basuto blankets which turn into 10 by 3 foot laser shields.
Kinda weird peacetime based on the movies intro, he's kinda enabled.
Yeah, I thought the blankets projecting a light shield was pretty goofy. Also, the kinetic energy highlighting BP's suit purple (and Killmonger's yellow) was a huge design misstep. It looked extremely lame and should have been conveyed differently. I hope the brothers who are helming Infinity War either retcon that out or just say Shuri made him a new suit without glowy purple bits. BP is 100% cooler without it. He looked great in Civil War. I also want to see him just shred and tear up those aliens. BP at 100 mph doing his thing. Have him hurling spears, slicing them in half with vibranium swords, whatever.
 
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