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Black people have less chance of being killed by the police than white people

betrayal

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Feb 2, 2018
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This is a rip off from another thread because I think it is important.

There are several studies (i.e. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/) and of course they come to the conclusion that blacks die disproportionately more often through police violence ("Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites.") compared to white people. This is all true. Period.

But when talking about skin color, what about the statistics mantra "Correlation does not imply causation"?

From the study linked above (and many other as well): "Recent national data identified few differences between blacks and whites in the frequency of most forms of police contact, including requests for police assistance, reporting of crime or neighborhood disturbances, and involuntary street stops."

So what does this mean? Black people, although clearly underrepresented in the US American population, have about as much police contact as white Americans. This is primarily not about active controls by the police, but events where the police are called in. The numbers have been constant for many years. Everybody can fact-check this by using google and checking the official statistics provided by the Bureau of Justice.

-> What follows is this: Yes, black people die disproportionately more often through police violence, but they also have disproportionately more contact with the police (about same as white people), which was not actively initiated by the police.

-> The skin color cannot be the reason that more black people die by police violence. It is the numbers. Simple mathematics and statistics, independent of skin colour.


And now you better brace yourself. Because now comes a crystal-clear, comprehensible statement, which is supported by all studies and official statistics, and which everyone can understand and double check on their own. I actually encourage people to do it. This is not a twisting of numbers, but simple fact-based and mathematical logic hat cannot be influenced by morals or ethnicity:
Statistically, black people have a lower chance of dying during a police operation than white people, measured by the percentage of their involvement in police operations.
 

haxan7

Volunteered as Tribute
May 9, 2016
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The left doesn’t care about mathematics, facts or even basic logic when their emotions and deeply held beliefs tell them otherwise. I feel like people who have already left the modern left are in a somewhat precarious situation at the moment. We want the children to grow up, but we know they have to make their own mistakes.
 

Reallink

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Jan 7, 2008
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BLM's response to empirical data is to accuse you of tampering with it, claim it doesn't apply cause there are more white people, or point out how many black people are not criminals. None of which has anything to do with the most damning statistics they're hoping to explain away. They especially like to ignore the obvious correlation between violent crime and police shootings, and would instead rather assume all races commit all crimes at equal rates. Now a grade schooler could tell you that's a logical fallacy, but that is actually where they derive their "Police are 5x more likely to kill blacks!!!!" mantra. They straight up divide 270 million whites / X police shootings Vs. 45 million blacks / X police shootings. Conveniently ignoring that blacks commit a majority of murders and robberies and a huge disproportion of nearly every other violent crime.
 
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cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
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Go watch Lamont Hill vs Owens debate. And he is supposed smart guy in their movement.

They are all dumb as rocks and dont care about anything except their narrative and will lie till their dying breath.

Forget facts. Round em up and gitmo them. Its like trying to explain to islamic terrorist that Jews arent evil. You cant do it.
 

Riven326

Would place his sister in the spank bank.
Mar 25, 2019
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Go watch Lamont Hill vs Owens debate. And he is supposed smart guy in their movement.

They are all dumb as rocks and dont care about anything except their narrative and will lie till their dying breath.

Forget facts. Round em up and gitmo them. Its like trying to explain to islamic terrorist that Jews arent evil. You cant do it.
I remember when the Swedish government were saying ISIS fighters coming into or returning to Sweden should not go to jail, but should instead be rehabilitated. Because tolerance and stuff. I got into heated arguments with my liberal friends at the time. I called it madness. They called me a bigot. Go figure.
 

MajimaEverywhere

Formerly 'wienke'
Sep 2, 2007
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I really think that once you control for income and other socio-economic factors, that the police are really interacting with poor people in general more than anything.
 

MrA

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They won't care. They still religiously believe in the gender wage gap, after all, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
but they wove the science! unless the science doesn't say what they want, love global warming, but don't like the big 2 solutions scientist push, aka, nuclear power (shame we lost all those decades of innovation in the US over a movie, really talk to people over 50, hurr durr, China syndrome! nuclear power is bad, duh movie said so!) and gmos (which is bonus stupid since it is just more efficient than traditional cross-breeding or mutation attempting).
 

Zangiefy360

Cross Forum Drama ..........Queen
Aug 30, 2018
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MrA

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Nazi's told everyone that Jews were responsible for all the problems, just blame jews. Poor, blame the jews. crime, blame the jews. Someone died in your family, blame the jews.

BLM terrorist have learned very well from the Nazi's.
Yeah but itz da Jewz whoz lended me dah money, and itz da jewz fault I couldn't pay it back! Mmmm scapegoating is so much better than self discipline and personal responsibility.
What is the first peace of advice successful people always give?, don't blame others for your failures, otherwise you'll never better yourself.
 
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Woo-Fu

incest on the subway
Jan 2, 2007
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If facts mattered none of this would have happened. Stats are useless without the education to understand them in context and the willingness to recognize their validity.

If you've spent your entire life with Democrats telling you that you're oppressed, can't compete, can't succeed, and belong stacked on top of each other in projects then you might just start believing it.

Once you do start believing it it is a very easy jump to blame somebody else for it, something the Democrats will also help you with.

If you look at the people who have managed to escape that trap you'll find a universal trait, the willingness to take responsibility.
 

dionysus

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May 12, 2007
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If you want to design an economic uplift system that actually works, you would focus on self-improvement, education, and access to capital. If you wanted to have more just outcomes in policing, you would focus on compliant police interactions and giving people access to good lawyers. FIght it in the courts, not violently against the armed police officer trying to arrest you. Basically mimic how the successful people in society behave and recognize that a solution that is in your control is way more effective than appealing to huge instutitions and politicians where you are one voice amount 350 million voices.

If Democrats actually wanted to change the status quo they could immediately allow school choice or voucher programs. They could also invest in the public defender program to enable high quality defense lawyers to fall under it. They won't do this because of the incentive structure in politics. Teachers unions are huge funders of local campaigns, and most private schools do not have unionized teachers whereas every public school is unionized. Now look at public defenders, DA offices salivate to overcharge people who are represented by public defenders because the stats show it is a guaranteed plea deal or court case win. They don't want to face competent opposing counsel. They can run on reelection with 98% of cases are successfully convicted type political talking points. Prison unions are also big funders of local campaigns.
 

NH1982

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Jul 9, 2019
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I feel like you guys should take action against racial police brutality. Maybe have a sit-in protest in some city centre somewhere. Maybe get yourselves a cool group name, something something matters, you know, along those lines. Bonus points if you try to seccede from the US and name your autonomous zone something like General Occupied zone, or GOP for short so you have instant recognisability and support. Then just sit back and wait for the police beatings to take place
 

Halo is Dead

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May 20, 2018
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Nazi's told everyone that Jews were responsible for all the problems, just blame jews. Poor, blame the jews. crime, blame the jews. Someone died in your family, blame the jews.

BLM terrorist have learned very well from the Nazi's.
So true . I can't believe I agree with this. Just keep throwing out blanket statements like institutional racism, racist, white supremacy and you will have the masses eating out of your hand because you fight for justice. In reality though, you are painting one demographic as evil solely on the surface level. Keep saying racism, and systemic because you can't fight an invisible enemy. Hide your political strong arming under the good fight to keep the public distracted from the REAL issues in this country.
 

Zefah

Gold Member
Jan 7, 2007
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I'm not here to convince you. I'm just laughing at how ridiculous this is overall. Y'all need some serious help
Any specific part that is funny to you, or just the idea that people are not fully buying into the various narratives of BLM and doing something other than expressing full support for the movement?
 

Bonfires Down

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Jul 31, 2007
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Go watch Lamont Hill vs Owens debate. And he is supposed smart guy in their movement.
But Marc agreed with Candace that unarmed whites are indeed more likely to be shot by cops. His point of contention was the use of force against black people in non-lethal encounters. And it does line up with data I've seen previously that cops are more likely to use force against black people when the circumstances of the encounter are the same, though I'm not too interested in searching out the data to support that at the moment.

But it's true that in general the sticking point of the black lives matter movement is about unarmed black people being disproportionately shot by police, and the vast majority of them have no fucking clue what they are talking about.
 
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cryptoadam

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But Marc agreed with Candace that unarmed whites are indeed more likely to be shot by cops. His point of contention was the use of force against black people in non-lethal encounters. And it does line up with data I've seen previously that cops are more likely to use force against black people when the circumstances of the encounter are the same, though I'm not too interested in searching out the data to support that at the moment.

But it's true that in general the sticking point of the black lives matter movement is about unarmed black people being disproportionately shot by police, and the vast majority of them have no fucking clue what they are talking about.
I don't know the one report he kept sighting is probably the one that has been posted on here multiple times by the black researcher (I am 99% sure he is refrencing that one). And it really didn't sound like he knew what he was talking about, and if it is that report he cherry picked one tiny part of it to focus on, while ignoring the larger findings that basically there isn't bias from the police. Pretty much all stats point to that, unless you twist them to try and fit your preconceived narrative.
 
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betrayal

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But Marc agreed with Candace that unarmed whites are indeed more likely to be shot by cops. His point of contention was the use of force against black people in non-lethal encounters. And it does line up with data I've seen previously that cops are more likely to use force against black people when the circumstances of the encounter are the same, though I'm not too interested in searching out the data to support that at the moment.

But it's true that in general the sticking point of the black lives matter movement is about unarmed black people being disproportionately shot by police, and the vast majority of them have no fucking clue what they are talking about.
I don't know the one report he kept sighting is probably the one that has been posted on here multiple times by the black researcher (I am 99% sure he is refrencing that one). And it really didn't sound like he knew what he was talking about, and if it is that report he cherry picked one tiny part of it to focus on, while ignoring the larger findings that basically there isn't bias from the police. Pretty much all stats point to that, unless you twist them to try and fit your preconceived narrative.
This is an analysis of several studies and police statistics provided by Yale:

Even when officers report civilians have been compliant and no arrest was made, blacks are 21.3 (0.04) percent more likely to endure some form of force. Yet, on the most extreme use of force – officer-involved shootings – we are unable to detect any racial differences in either the raw data or when accounting for controls. We argue that these facts are most consistent with a model of taste-based discrimination in which police officers face discretely higher costs for officer-involved shootings relative to non-lethal uses of force. This model is consistent with racial differences in the average returns to compliant behaviors, the results of our tests of discrimination based on Knowles, Persico, and Todd (2001) and Anwar and Fang (2006), and the fact that the odds-ratio is large and significant across all intensities of force – even after accounting for a rich set of controls. In the end, however, without randomly assigning race, we have no definitive proof of discrimination. Our results are also consistent with mismeasured contextual factors.


So blacks are 21.3 (0.04) percent more likely to endure some form of force. However, the cause of this was only investigated as to whether this could have racist reasons, for which absolutely no evidence was found. It is likely that social and demographic reasons, i.e. in what environment does the person in question live, what is their social status, level of education etc., are more likely to be the reason.

Ultimately, you can spin it any way you want. Black people do not die more often than white people during police checks. In fact, they clearly have a lower chance. That's a fact.
Black people have statistically a higher chance to experience some kind of violence during police encounters. But this does not seem to have a racist background, if you look at all available statistics and studies, but is due to other factors. These other factors (mentioned above) become even more probable when you consider that there are more black than white prisoners in US prisons. This clearly points to other non-racist causes (remember that black and white people are about as often involved in police investigations).

Politically incorrectly speaking, this simply means that blacks seem to commit more crimes and are more likely to be violent or aggressive, which in turn then leads to police violence. Of course this does not apply to all black people and has nothing to do with skin colour. This is solely due to social and demographic reasons. The answer, as to almost all problems in this world, is education.
 
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