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[Bullet Club]

Posted for xAlucardx

Original post: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/neo-...ll-post-on-your-behalf.1456224/post-253678879

First lets start by watching 2 minutes Gameplay from the masterpiece to refresh your Memory


3 DS Games were the best on the portable Following SOTN


i have posted this on the Official Game Forum at Steam but wanted more people to see the world we live in and the irony of how a game that is 2 Decades old still cant be followed with a true Graphical upgraded 2D engine, they went lower with DS Sequels and that was it.

i don't know where to begin...as a fan of SOTN and the SNES Games, having played every single release from NES+SNES, N64 to The Game Boy Advance to the NDS Trilogy i am very disappointed on their overall Art, Visual direction for igarashi's new game

Aria of Sorrow and Down of Sorrow perfected everything that was great about Symphony of the Night, it had Terrible downgrade to Visuals but the spirit of the Gameplay and animations were all there

ill go case by case to prove that you will fail with your new game

first lets clear some facts out of the way and ill be very transparent:
we live in an Age where we can get any game for free, having said that, i still own an Original Copy of every Igavania Style made by him

My favorite one is the "SEGA Saturn version" of SOTN it felt like more of an expansion of a great game (Igarashi hates this port because its inferior to the original)

well lets see, the Japanese voice acting was phenomenal and gave life to the 2d sprites had a soul compared to the English Dub, whoever was doing the Japanese dub was faithful to his job, the extra character add on was great callback to Dracula - X

after so many years, i have modded my PS Vita and Switch and Wii U, i have a copy of SOTN on Probably every device that has a screen on it from smartphones or an android Alarm Clock...to a Car Dashboard

i really do not understand how a company that made a masterpiece like SOTN just refuses to port it to to every Game console to expose it more.

it was Great to own it on xbox live arcade, Harmony of Despair was a great surprise too and such a disappointment you didn't make a new game with that Engine......

now that i have cleared myself and established that i already purchased several legit copies of SOTN on PSN, PSP, Xbox,PS4, Satrurn

i was very angry that looking at Nintendo Switch and it becoming a shovel ware of a port Machine.....it still doesn't have SOTN so with little fondling and modding the console managed to play Dracula x from PC engine and SOTN, finished both again on the console that Konami still refuse to support with the games that fans want (yes i can play it On PC or PS4 but i love to play that game anywhere anytime any place on every console i could

Mega man has managed to spread its Collection on every console...not my style of game, but i respect Capcom for preserving the entire Franchise for Decades to come)

its been 2 decades, me and most fans still regard SOTN the best the series had to offer we like to be able to play it for years to come.

so back to BloodSteined, i am very confused....

SOTN how many developers back then 8?

i want you to remember this line from Wikipedia: "Their primary motivation for the abrupt design change was the sight of dozens of Castlevania games in bargain bins of Japanese video game stores"

you have struck Gold when you made SOTN style you Struck Gold again with The DS sequels.

look at Forgotten ANNE(not an Igavania gener but the Style it has) and Dead Cells, look at Timespinner, if you had gone the Style of Forgotten Anne or tasked "Arc System Works" to lend their Unreal Engine 4 Guilty Gear style Engine, you could have preserved SOTN for the new Generation intact if you really wanted to go 3d and keep its spirit

Since SOTN for 2 decades we have not received a true successor that surpasses its 2d Style or remaster it or remakes, we recently Got a Butchered port from the PSP version with Wrong SFX sounds attached to the Wrong Enimies and a much worse Dub then the Original...)

>>>>you had a great character artist<<<<

Timespinner on Vita & PS4/PC is as close as it gets to Having that SOTN Nostalgia, no other game has done it yet


in my mind a perfect Successor would have been something done with "Game Maker" Engine that had visual styles of Dead Cells with the Gameplay of Bloodsteined

if you were still in charge of "castlevania" doing a successor in the style of "Forgotten Anne would" have been the best Direction regardless of whatever Resources you needed you would have Done justice to your Legacy

if you had gone 2d, with the funding and 5 years your Team have you could have finished the game by now even if yo didn't have assets......you could have hired people from Deviant Art to give yo the best 2d assets faithful to SOTN

New Indie Developers are still trying to capture your Magic and still fail

why is it so hard to redo what you achieved on PlayStation 1 limited 2D graphics with 8 programmers back then?

so a simple Formula for a successful Igavania game should be a 2D side-scrolling and have an in-game map which shows your progress

While you now take a moment to check how many of the games Done the above criteria and was released in less then 5 years, some was a one man show Creations:

Time Spinner (Best game Following SOTN albeit chibi Deformed Spirits)
Dead Cells
Dust: An Elysian Tail
Axiom Verge
Forgotten Anne (Best 2D Style Game and Visuals)
Ori and the Blind Forest Hollow Knight
Strider
Deaths Gambit
Salt and Sanctuary
SHhovel KNight (Several Seqels)
Shantae (several sequels)
Owl Boy

Michiru Yamane Music and Ayami Kojima timeless Art Style is what made SOTN stand the test of time, please go play your Game now: Obtain the Bat Sonar Ability then Collect The Spike Break Armor then the Silver & Gold rings go Save Richter and pause the game.

and ask yourself if you have achieved or surpassed what you have done?

having the same Music Designer is still not the same Game, (How many God of war Games failed without the Original Director), its the same as going to watch a new Batman Movie or a Star wars movie and realizing its not done by the same director or the same as when you have expectations for a new Metal gear Game or king Of fighter Game and you see that the new Team has failed to Capture the magic of the early Releases

please learn from others mistakes, look at Mega Man latest Terrible Games, and look at Mega Man Zero / Mega Man ZX on GBA / DS these games capture your SOTN spirit and now they are making Dragon: Marked for Death

we fans follow who made our games because we know they are faithful in doing their work

10 years from now ill only remember your game: Bloodsteinaed as the game that was in development Hell, was more important to you to get a physical release then a digital and let it out on PS Vita and Switch ( regardless of Vita Piracy you would have made a fortune from Asia and Japan the console is still alive with digital Purchases)

you should really reward what your followers want, not go corporate and apologize for 5 years and make excuses and delays.

please return to making games that has the visual appeal of SOTN with the same artists or someone who follows in their style, SOTN was not a one man show and was a collaboration of the best talents from music and art and Accessible Game play and Direction.......you wont bet my support without your original Team

Sorry but you should council with Toru Hagihara and not add more studios....

at least bring the man who Helped make Castlevania Great again

5 years Excuses and Delays is not justified by Apologizing when you have made SOTN with LESS talent and Man Power

Sonic 4 was a flop (it followed the original without the Mechanics that made it great)
Sonic Mania was success (it followed everything the Original Did)

Sonic Mania is a sign that Fans know how to make a successful game to a great Series after decades past.............

if i had the chance to Remake SOTN ill chose this stylethe first time i saw the traler i didnt belive it was 3D untill the camera Angle changed)

and release another Expansion using this 2D Fighting Engine:


What Arc System Works done for their work is what SOTN and any Future successor to it Deserves

i Rest my Case with the Community

 

[cartman414]

Toru Hagihara only did the scenario for SotN.

At least you felt that Aria/Dawn were superior expressions of the gameplay.

 

[petran79]

They have to create a new engine for the game. Previous Castlevanias were based on already existing and original assets by Konami. Eg SOTN used engine and assets of Rondo of Blood. But here they have to create new ones without infringing on copyright. This takestime if you want todo a polished game.
I have patience and just like Order of Ecclesia and unlike 3ds Samus Returns, this game will put most indie metroidvanias to shame. I am certain of it

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

First of all, it'll be 4 years since the Kickstarter in 2019, not 5 years.

Though I do think it was a mistake to make the game 3D, it really should have been just been 2D, but that's what's taking so long.

However just because it's taken a while doesn't mean it's going to be bad, 4 years really isn't too long a development time to make a 3D game from the ground up, we want the game to be good and polished don't we?

I'd be very, very surprised if the game doesn't turn out at least decent.

 

[LegendOfKage]

xAlucardx I didn't see it mentioned in your post, but WayForward was added to the Bloodstained project recently. I think that should help them a lot.



---

It's me, IGA.

For this month's update, we have an incredible support who will be joining the Bloodstained team. Can you guess who? It's WayForward!

That's right, WayForward, the makers of Shantae! As you may already know, they are top-tier when it comes to side-scrolling action games. There is even a staff member who previously worked on one of my projects, which is incredibly encouraging.

In consideration of their past achievements, WayForward will be helping the development team realize my vision for this game. Maybe I am even more excited than everyone else - with their help Bloodstained will become an even better game.

...

I was talking with the team just before writing this comment and, with WayForward's help, they have been busy helping to improve the game and fix any bugs that pop up.

Speaking of which, there's a really tough one that’s making the game crash that needs to be fixed before the game reaches everyone, so we are scything through them all.

Thank you, everyone, for your continued support!

---

And that's all we've heard so far. I appreciate the concern, though. I also have high hopes for Bloodstained.

 

[UltimateUnknown]

"I bad game is always bad. A delayed game is eventually good."

 

[Starlight Lotice]

Wss disappointed when they announced dropping the Vita, and even more when they said they are going for 2.5D but I think it will be an interesting game whether or not the gameplay is better or worse.

It is genius to get fans making fanfiction before the game even officially releases, as it creates some lore for the game even if the game turns out awfully.

Hoping it doesn't! I love SotN and all Metroidvania's and hopefully Wayforward have provided some of that Shantae magic in there too.

 

[Viliger]

Time Spinner (Best game Following SOTN albeit chibi Deformed Spirits)

That's some awful taste right there.
The list lacks actually good metroidvanias such as Hollow Knight and Valdis Story.
On the Bloodstained - the demo played good even if it looked subpar, I am optimistic about the game.

 

[cireza]

"I bad game is always bad. A delayed game is eventually good."

You are missing the second part of the quote.
"But you might eventually be dead by then".

 

[Bullet Club]

That's some awful taste right there.
The list lacks actually good metroidvanias such as Hollow Knight and Valdis Story.
On the Bloodstained - the demo played good even if it looked subpar, I am optimistic about the game.

Add xAlucardx when quoting the OP please.

 

[Kazza]

People who played the demo seemed to really like it, so I'm confident the gameplay will be fine. The 8 bit game they already released was pretty good too. I predict that it'll be a game that the backers are generally satisfied with, if not blown away.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

What do you mean “still no release”??? Curse of the Moon was one of the best games to come out last year

I backed Bloodstained and don’t mind it coming out next year or whenever it’s ready. By then it will have two full game releases.

Jfc entitled gamers. No doubt you would complain up a storm if they rushed this shit out. They cant win. Thank god they are ignoring people like this and doing it at their own pace

OP likes the Saturn port of SOTN with bad graphics no transparency and horrible loading times just because it has an extra room or two and then pretends to know what makes these games good ok

 

[dirthead]

You're preaching to the choir here. My gut feeling about this game is that it's going to be the worst kind of disappointment: not terrible, but just so bland, mediocre, and boring it's almost completely forgotten about after release. The word "insipid" was created to describe art design like the stuff in this game.

The animation is trash, too, which is the kiss of death for a game like this. It has to feel good to move around, and it just doesn't when the animation is so stilted and weird. I just can't think of any reason I would ever play this instead of just replaying a Metroid or SOTN.

Not really sure why anyone thinks Iga's a big deal anyway. He wasn't even the sole lead on SOTN, the only truly exceptional game of that whole Metroidvania crop. The portable games were only so so.

Kickstarters have a really horrible batting average. I pretty much assume they're going to be terrible.

 

[JunkerWoland]

The thread's title will only be accurate, if the game doesn't release until June 2020. If we don't get a release date in the January update, then I'd imagine Bloodstained won't hit retail until the second half of 2019; and given the game's horror themes, there's a good chance with the delay the publisher and developers were always targeting an October/November date.

Let's also keep things in context. Bloodstained was backed in June 2015, a time when people had a much different understanding of crowdfunded video game projects. Most backers probably assumed known developers with an established track record like Koji Igarashi had what they needed in place and were only looking for all, or some, of the funds to begin development. Instead, backers were funding concept pitches, with potentially nothing more having already been created than some design ideas and promotional artwork.

In terms of Bloodstained's actual development, we know in 2016 (officially announced in November of that year) the game changed developers from Inti Creates to a duo of companies, DICO and Monobit, whose work (particularly at that time) was primarily in making games for mobile devices and web browsers. There's a good chance both companies were only just learning to use Unreal Engine 4, as they were undertaking development of their first major console/PC title. Realistically, chances of a 2018 release date were slim, and we can now (probably) rightfully assume not much of the actual game existed, when DICO and Monobit took over development duty.

Putting aside personal taste when it comes to visuals and some of the buggy aspects of the summer 2018 demo, there were graphical elements in the build that are not acceptable in a modern console/PC game. The demo, supposedly featuring only a sliver of the game map, was something they willingly released to the public, making it appropriate to assume the whole of the game also required a good deal of visual refinement (which is to say nothing about game mechanics and bug fixing).

My take is the final game will release in late 2019 and be mediocre, at best. Long ago the project committed to a visual aesthetic and graphic quality that no manner of 3D-model massaging and lighting tweaking is going to fix. If we go by the 2018 demo, Bloodstained will feel fine, but likely not as tight as its spiritual predecessors. The remaining questions will be whether the map design is enticing, the items/weapons fun, and the enemies and boss battles interesting. I think Koji Igarashi's biggest asset is the passion for the games he likes to create, but he probably doesn't have the people/companies needed to produce a proper successor to Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

 

[dirthead]

The thread's title will only be accurate, if the game doesn't release until June 2020. If we don't get a release date in the January update, then I'd imagine Bloodstained won't hit retail until the second half of 2019; and given the game's horror themes, there's a good chance with the delay the publisher and developers were always targeting an October/November date.

Let's also keep things in context. Bloodstained was backed in June 2015, a time when people had a much different understanding of crowd-funded video game projects. Most backers probably assumed known developers with an established track record like Koji Igarashi had what they needed in place and were only looking for all, or some, of the funds to begin development. Instead, backers were funding concept pitches, with potentially nothing more having already been created than some design ideas and promotional artwork.

In terms of Bloodstained's actual development, we know in 2016 (officially announced in November of that year) the game changed developers from Inti Creates to a duo of companies, DICO and Monobit, whose work (particularly at that time) was primarily in making games for mobile devices and web browsers. There's a good chance both companies were only just learning to use Unreal Engine 4, as they were undertaking development of their first major console/PC title. Realistically, chances of a 2018 release date were slim, and we can now (probably) rightfully assume not much of the actual game existed, when DICO and Monobit took over development duty.

Putting aside personal taste when it comes to visuals and some of the buggy aspects of the summer 2018 demo, there were graphical elements in the build that are not acceptable in a modern console/PC game The demo, supposedly featuring only a sliver of the game map, was something they willingly released to the public, making it appropriate to assume the whole of the game also required a good deal of visual refinement (which is to say nothing about game mechanics and bug fixing).

My take is the final game will release in late 2019 and be mediocre, at best. Long ago the project committed to a visual aesthetic and graphic quality that no manner of 3D-model massaging and lighting tweaking is going to fix. If we go by the 2018 demo, Bloodstained will feel fine, but likely not as tight as its spiritual predecessors. The remaining questions will be whether the map design is enticing, the items/weapons fun, and the enemies and boss battles interesting. I think Koji Igarashi's biggest asset is the passion for the games he likes to create, but he probably doesn't have the people/companies needed to produce a proper successor to Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

Agreed but I just want to emphasize the OP's point that Dust: An Elysian Tail is basically a gigantic embarrassment for the Bloodstained guys. That was a case of a fucking one man show coming up with something that not only only looks and plays better but was done faster. That's just damned embarrassing for them.

I don't pretend to know what's really going on with the development there, but honestly, it kind of looks like a scam from the outside. It shouldn't take a team of 4+ people this long to produce what they've indicated the game will be. These games just aren't that complicated to make (even if you had hand drawn 2D sprites instead of the lazy ass 3D models that look like amateur shit). Makes you wonder where the money's really going.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

The latest update mentions the first release of the game is pretty much done so the release is prolly pretty close. Atm it's been more like 3.5 years, not 5...

I enjoyed both demos, so i'm very much looking forward to it.

 

[JunkerWoland]

Agreed but I just want to emphasize the OP's point that Dust: An Elysian Tail is basically a gigantic embarrassment for the Bloodstained guys. That was a case of a fucking one man show coming up with something that not only only looks and plays better but was done faster. That's just damned embarrassing for them.

I don't pretend to know what's really going on with the development there, but honestly, it kind of looks like a scam from the outside. It shouldn't take a team of 4+ people this long to produce what they've indicated the game will be. These games just aren't that complicated to make (even if you had hand drawn 2D sprites instead of the lazy ass 3D models that look like amateur shit). Makes you wonder where the money's really going.

Trying to compare the development of games is often fraught with inaccuracies and unknowns, and I find it best to be careful, contrasting one man's passion project with a title that's yet to be released and is being created by teams of developers and contractors.

I don't have any questions about the Kickstarter funds, because the game was never intended to be created solely on the crowdfunding proceeds. I do think it's fair to question whether the project has spent its money wisely and was budgeted appropriately, but from the start, the project has involved multiple companies and outside contractors (artists, musicians, etc.), who all need to be paid. There's also the cost of creating and shipping all the physical items, related to the Kickstarter.

As I suggested in my previous post, when all is said and done, Bloodstained probably will not have had the right people in place to create the game most backers wanted, let alone in the time frame they had hoped to play it.

 

[Alexios]

Chillax, it's gonna get done when it gets done, play something else in the mean time.

 

[plushyp]

Chillax, it's gonna get done when it gets done, play something else in the mean time.

 

[zenspider]

They have to create a new engine for the game. Previous Castlevanias were based on already existing and original assets by Konami. Eg SOTN used engine and assets of Rondo of Blood. But here they have to create new ones without infringing on copyright. This takestime if you want todo a polished game.
I have patience and just like Order of Ecclesia and unlike 3ds Samus Returns, this game will put most indie metroidvanias to shame. I am certain of it

It's not just a new engine - seems like an entire company got built from scratch. There's much more to game making than game making.

OP makes some salient points, but these will all be moot if the game delivers. I'll reserve judgment for the finished product.

 

[Belmonte]

Iga used lots of assets from Rondo of Blood for SOTN and other Castlevanias.

I think they should made 2D, not only because it is faster but it is much easier to make it work with this kind of gameplay. 3D is weird since it feels like the character could go into the background. The gameplay feels abstract, since it is a 2D platformer, but the graphics doesn't feel that way.

They probably shouldn't develop for so many consoles too.

That said, I'm optimistic. I have faith on Iga and team to make an awesome game. Most "metroidvanias" feels more like Metroid, gameplay-wise, than metroidvania. I miss the many weapons, skills, itens, armors and the RPG influences Iga games have.

 

[cartman414]

Not really sure why anyone thinks Iga's a big deal anyway. He wasn't even the sole lead on SOTN, the only truly exceptional game of that whole Metroidvania crop. The portable games were only so so.

Hagihara left partway through SotN. It was Igarashi who came up with the idea to turn it into a Metroidvania.

And Aria and Dawn are superior to SotN, with none of the design cruft of the predecessor.

 

[Akuza89]

They effectively built an entire company, an engine and then a game within a 5 year period... give them sometime.

heck during that time we got bloodstained curse of the moon, yes it wasn't done by them specifically but they would have been involved to a certain extent.

it probably would have been easier if they went 32bit like SOTN no doubt, but it wouldn't have been the game they wanted.

 

[El_Belmondo]

Oh man, i was thinking about what to post but then the OP became a SotN wankfest

In any case i don't understand the insecurity. IGA doesn't have Konami behind him anymore, he can take his sweet time and do not make massproduced games like in the DS era (For the record, i think the DS games are better than SotN even on the visuals. More cohesive. SotN feels like a collage and can get quite ugly at times)

I don't like him too much, but we all know that he is *not* Inafune.

 

[Petrae]

I personally wouldn’t throw my money away on crowdfunding a video game that may or may not ever come out— or one that takes eons to arrive. It’s gambling, basically, that the game will:

A) Come out at all

and

B) Be any good

Most of these efforts that are worth their salt eventually get picked up by publishers anyway. I wait until that happens— and if/when the game actually arrives in stores— to spend my money.

That said, people can and will spend their money on whatever they want. It’s your money, do with it as you please. Me? I have other things to spend it on than speculation and waiting for years for it to bear fruit.

 

[dark10x]

My favorite one is the "SEGA Saturn version" of SOTN it felt like more of an expansion of a great game (Igarashi hates this port because its inferior to the original)

Definitely agree with Iga. They butchered the artwork due to the Saturn’s lack of a 256 pixel width display mode. It’s awful looking.

 

[JunkerWoland]

Just wanted to throw out there, Bloodstained is running on Unreal Engine 4. The teams working on the game obviously have to create original assets, but the game isn't running on some bespoke technology built by either Igarashi's company or any of the developers working on the title.

 

[Alexios]

Well, it still needs a ton of work, it's not like they take Unreal Tournament's alpha and work off that by adding levels weapons and enemies, it's a side scroller that needs to feel just right and tight as the 2D games, if they were making an FPS then maybe UE would be more help for the gameplay. Even visually they've done so many changes since the start to get it better. So that's definitely more work than it took to get SOTN off the ground with all the asset and engine reuse even if that also was tremendous work. But if they're successful then they can hopefully make a whole series out of this groundwork and have it adjust to higher resolution just fine unlike 2D sprite based games, maybe this game is gonna be their Rondo and the next will be their SOTN and the next something else and they can also reuse the gameplay engine and even some player, enemy and background assets where applicable, who knows, that'd be pretty cool to see. Would be nice if fighting game companies did this even, make all their characters with a given art style and spec and change the post processing and gameplay engine per title while only making the new characters from scratch and otherwise editing the old ones to match. It was so cool back in the day when different games expanded their roster by using characters from previous games in the series or even other series altogether like Marvel vs Capcom spawning from X Men and SF games or KoF games spawning from Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting and others. Now every sequel is somehow expected to be a wholly different thing, a next gen leap forward graphically and outside Tekken they're all faltering.

 

[120v]

most KS games take half a decade. not a developer so i can't speak for the pipeline but i'd imagine it's more of a scrappy affair, and no bean counters breathing behind your neck so no hard "let's just throw some shit together" deadlines that plague even the best games.

that said what's been shown so far hasn't been particularly spectacular so i can understand some wringing of the hands. though ultimately i think it'll end up fine

 

[JunkerWoland]

...and no bean counters breathing behind your neck so no hard "let's just throw some shit together" deadlines that plague even the best games.

While not a huge company, Bloodstained's publisher, 505 Games, has essentially been on board since the very beginning of the Kickstarter. At some point, Igarashi and his team likely do have to answer to a higher power, when it comes to getting the game finished.

 

[cr0w]

I don't have any faith in Iga producing anything but a pale imitation of the one good game he's been milking for two decades. He's a one-trick pony.

 

[ClanOfNone]

Hey Konami, a SotN remaster with hd sprites and a completely orchestral score would be swell, let's get on that shall we?

 

[cartman414]

I don't have any faith in Iga producing anything but a pale imitation of the one good game he's been milking for two decades. He's a one-trick pony.

And said SotN wankfest continues.

C'mon people. Not like it wasn't improved on.

Definitely agree with Iga. They butchered the artwork due to the Saturn’s lack of a 256 pixel width display mode. It’s awful looking.

Yeah. Imagine a built from the ground up Saturn version. Pure 2d sprites. (I also like to do the same for Gradius Gaiden.)

 

[cr0w]

And said SotN wankfest continues.

C'mon people. Not like it wasn't improved on.



Yeah. Imagine a built from the ground up Saturn version. Pure 2d sprites. (I also like to do the same for Gradius Gaiden.)

Dunno if I read your reply wrong, but I'm not wanking over SOTN at all. It's maybe my fourth favorite in the series and I hate the direction it took the series in, but I can't say it's a bad game. I just prefer the OG games.

 

[Bonfires Down]

The logic of using two developers whose expertise is in 2D to create a game with 3D visuals is pretty lacking. And during the beginning of development they were mentioning art styles such as Guilty Gear while having little to no experience of 3D graphics.

 

[cartman414]

Dunno if I read your reply wrong, but I'm not wanking over SOTN at all. It's maybe my fourth favorite in the series and I hate the direction it took the series in, but I can't say it's a bad game. I just prefer the OG games.

Oh yeah, I agree. Sorry about that. That said, it's not the best Metroidvania in the series either. The Sorrow games have an edge over it in castle design.

 

[ClanOfNone]

I think some of the DS iterations are better games, my love for Symphony is mostly nostalgia. It still stands among the top of the genre it helped pioneer though.
Team Cherry came out of nowhere with Hollow Knight, which I feel has taken the crown.

 

[dirthead]

And said SotN wankfest continues.

C'mon people. Not like it wasn't improved on.

Yeah. Imagine a built from the ground up Saturn version. Pure 2d sprites. (I also like to do the same for Gradius Gaiden.)

It really wasn't. It's still far better than all the follow up mobile variants. The thing about games like this is that they sort of live and die by the atmosphere and music. The music alone makes SOTN stand far above the others.

Hagihara left partway through SotN. It was Igarashi who came up with the idea to turn it into a Metroidvania.

And Aria and Dawn are superior to SotN, with none of the design cruft of the predecessor.

No, they're really not. Neither one of those games feels half as good as SOTN to play.

 

[xAlucardx]

@ J JunkerWoland
it is exactly my thought, but i wrote the article while being upset after playing through the beta build, he has the Castlevania DNA into Bloodstained more then any Metroidvania clone, i was more upset after playing TimeSpinner on Vita while its nothing special its not even better then the DS castlevania games but it reminded me how good it feels if played Bloodsteind on Vita, i do own every console on the market i understand that sony is cutting cartridge allocations short so they cant produce the game on carts, but time spinner is Digital across all platforms.

cancelling the vita made me realize the game would not be complete before june 2019 which the the time sony ends Vita support

some people here think i chose Timespinner over Hollow Knight (None of the games I mentioned are better then SOTN, GET over it, you are wrong, Hollow is a Great game But its art style doesn't reflect anything or impress, i simply enjoy Castlevania for its Gothic Style and its art from the point they started SOTN the game had an identity to it, many players come back to this game for its Music and Solid Flued Control

The same Person said i prefer the Saturn Version...
The DXC version has the Saturn extras, like playing as Maria.

you didn’t play the Saturn Version
Castlevania Symphony of the Night Saturn VS PSP Port | Port vs Port


extra Area sections, and Maria plays differently in the Saturn versioni am completely disregarding the new Ps4 release because of the Sound bugs Present and changes made to Maria, it still doesn’t include added Levels or Enemies, and Maria plays differently in the Saturn versionthere are items like the Speed Shoes not present in any Playstation Port that added more fun to play the game and please understand that I played these games when Saturn Console was still being sold in Stores and some minor graphical bugs doesn’t annoy me or make this a worse port, this wasn’t just a port on Saturn, after playing both Japanese & English PSX versions it still holds more Value.

@ Viliger
Hollow Knight isnt better then SOTN and please don’t compare The majestic Alucard and its unforgettable Gothic Style to Hollow Knight's Cartoonish Baby Chbi Ugly Character Designs to Alucard!
same with Salt & Sanctuary:Great Great Great Gameplay and level design But Has the worst Artwork of all games metrovanias

This argument will not get you anywhere, it is the same as saying DMC was better game then the original Devil may cry 1 or 3, that game regardless of what of it offered, the character design for dante was terrible and made me not like the game and forget it all together

Same with DS games, soma cruz was okay, then we had forgettable Portrait of ruin and order of ecclesia came after these games had generic new characters and less enjoyable map designs compared to Richter, Simon or Alucard Timespinner has Garbage character designs, Hollow Knight has excellent gameplay with Garbage art Direction in my personal opinion same for Salt and Sanctuary

Bloodsteined asked for a 500.000 Budget to Produce the game and got 5,000,000+ insteadhe kept adding more ports to a none existent game and adding more resources only to later Cancel Mac-OS, Linux, Wii U, Vita Ports for someone with his experience in making all these games he should have known better to just still to one Platform+PC, refine the game and release, then Hire 3rd party Studios to port it to other consoles his new game might be interesting just not better then what he already achieved

Same problem with Tim Schafer, I love Full Thruttle so much I also keep a copy of it on ever portable device, I was excited for Broken Age, supported it only to be Disappointed on its boring Visual Art Direction, I wanted something similar to Full Throttle or Curse of money island 3 or Grim Fandango, instead……instead we got a generic Broken Age

so 5 million funding for a a project that wanted Half a Million doesn’t justify the time its taking to come out, I already feel I am being scammed just like mighty #9, he isn't at fault, his management is terrible , Mighty #9 Team took 5 times the amount of money they needed and what did they do? developed several side projects and got them all cancelled while also hiring the wrong people to make the game

i wanted is something that Could surpasses SOTN even if he doesn’t own the IP, he could do better LOOK AT BAYONETTA! That is a prime example for someone who created Devil may Cry (Capcom still has to prove it can do better then Hediki Kamiya with their DMC5) and moved on to make something better he has no excuse with the Generic Art Style, level design and boring monsters and animations.

ONE man made Dust An Elysian Tail, if he could do that, what can a full team do with Bloodsteined???one man did Death Gambit, I almost thought this would be the game that surpasses castlevania, it had great Visual Art and level design then he crippled it with the controls…… my taste in a metrovania game consist of Gothic Style, Orchestrated Music Metal Music and Silky butter smooth Fluid animations and controls across the screen and attention to Detail in every part of the screen

Way forward Studio might help him in some parts, Shantee is a great series ,own all l releases, hate the Art and world and story and everything in it, only play it because it’s a MetroVania BloodSteined Concept art looked cool, I thought it was 3d until I played the beta…..i lost interest and will only play it because its music and for the fact that the Producer made some of the best games I played

El_Belmondo Sorry to Burst your bobble but he was making Trash games after SOTN, Konami didnt care so much for the Franchise and sent it into portables, the same can be said when laying a game on console and experience the best Graphic of it time then get greeted with a trashy followup that doesn't live up to expectations, there is a reason SOTN is a Masterpiece, Super metroid is still better then Fusion and zero, still has better Art and animations and overal visuals then all the 2d metroid sequels combined that came after it and no, the 3ds game is trash with boring 3d visuals and terrible mechanics, AM2R was much better

i am an old school type of guy who would prefer something like this:

over Bloodsteined anyday!

 

[dirthead]

@ J JunkerWoland
it is exactly my thought, but i wrote the article while being upset after playing through the beta build, he has the Castlevania DNA into Bloodstained more then any Metroidvania clone, i was more upset after playing TimeSpinner on Vita while its nothing special its not even better then the DS castlevania games but it reminded me how good it feels if played Bloodsteind on Vita, i do own every console on the market i understand that sony is cutting cartridge allocations short so they cant produce the game on carts, but time spinner is Digital across all platforms.

cancelling the vita made me realize the game would not be complete before june 2019 which the the time sony ends Vita support

some people here think i chose Timespinner over Hollow Knight (None of the games I mentioned are better then SOTN, GET over it, you are wrong, Hollow is a Great game But its art style doesn't reflect anything or impress, i simply enjoy Castlevania for its Gothic Style and its art from the point they started SOTN the game had an identity to it, many players come back to this game for its Music and Solid Flued Control

The same Person said i prefer the Saturn Version...
The DXC version has the Saturn extras, like playing as Maria.

you didn’t play the Saturn Version
Castlevania Symphony of the Night Saturn VS PSP Port | Port vs Port


extra Area sections, and Maria plays differently in the Saturn versioni am completely disregarding the new Ps4 release because of the Sound bugs Present and changes made to Maria, it still doesn’t include added Levels or Enemies, and Maria plays differently in the Saturn versionthere are items like the Speed Shoes not present in any Playstation Port that added more fun to play the game and please understand that I played these games when Saturn Console was still being sold in Stores and some minor graphical bugs doesn’t annoy me or make this a worse port, this wasn’t just a port on Saturn, after playing both Japanese & English PSX versions it still holds more Value.

@ Viliger
Hollow Knight isnt better then SOTN and please don’t compare The majestic Alucard and its unforgettable Gothic Style to Hollow Knight's Cartoonish Baby Chbi Ugly Character Designs to Alucard!
same with Salt & Sanctuary:Great Great Great Gameplay and level design But Has the worst Artwork of all games metrovanias

This argument will not get you anywhere, it is the same as saying DMC was better game then the original Devil may cry 1 or 3, that game regardless of what of it offered, the character design for dante was terrible and made me not like the game and forget it all together

Same with DS games, soma cruz was okay, then we had forgettable Portrait of ruin and order of ecclesia came after these games had generic new characters and less enjoyable map designs compared to Richter, Simon or Alucard Timespinner has Garbage character designs, Hollow Knight has excellent gameplay with Garbage art Direction in my personal opinion same for Salt and Sanctuary

Bloodsteined asked for a 500.000 Budget to Produce the game and got 5,000,000+ insteadhe kept adding more ports to a none existent game and adding more resources only to later Cancel Mac-OS, Linux, Wii U, Vita Ports for someone with his experience in making all these games he should have known better to just still to one Platform+PC, refine the game and release, then Hire 3rd party Studios to port it to other consoles his new game might be interesting just not better then what he already achieved

Same problem with Tim Schafer, I love Full Thruttle so much I also keep a copy of it on ever portable device, I was excited for Broken Age, supported it only to be Disappointed on its boring Visual Art Direction, I wanted something similar to Full Throttle or Curse of money island 3 or Grim Fandango, instead……instead we got a generic Broken Age

so 5 million funding for a a project that wanted Half a Million doesn’t justify the time its taking to come out, I already feel I am being scammed just like mighty #9, he isn't at fault, his management is terrible , Mighty #9 Team took 5 times the amount of money they needed and what did they do? developed several side projects and got them all cancelled while also hiring the wrong people to make the game

i wanted is something that Could surpasses SOTN even if he doesn’t own the IP, he could do better LOOK AT BAYONETTA! That is a prime example for someone who created Devil may Cry (Capcom still has to prove it can do better then Hediki Kamiya with their DMC5) and moved on to make something better he has no excuse with the Generic Art Style, level design and boring monsters and animations.

ONE man made Dust An Elysian Tail, if he could do that, what can a full team do with Bloodsteined???one man did Death Gambit, I almost thought this would be the game that surpasses castlevania, it had great Visual Art and level design then he crippled it with the controls…… my taste in a metrovania game consist of Gothic Style, Orchestrated Music Metal Music and Silky butter smooth Fluid animations and controls across the screen and attention to Detail in every part of the screen

Way forward Studio might help him in some parts, Shantee is a great series ,own all l releases, hate the Art and world and story and everything in it, only play it because it’s a MetroVania BloodSteined Concept art looked cool, I thought it was 3d until I played the beta…..i lost interest and will only play it because its music and for the fact that the Producer made some of the best games I played

El_Belmondo Sorry to Burst your bobble but he was making Trash games after SOTN, Konami didnt care so much for the Franchise and sent it into portables, the same can be said when laying a game on console and experience the best Graphic of it time then get greeted with a trashy followup that doesn't live up to expectations, there is a reason SOTN is a Masterpiece, Super metroid is still better then Fusion and zero, still has better Art and animations and overal visuals then all the 2d metroid sequels combined that came after it and no, the 3ds game is trash with boring 3d visuals and terrible mechanics, AM2R was much better

i am an old school type of guy who would prefer something like this:

over Bloodsteined anyday!

They've objectively made bad decisions with this game. Given this game's budget, it would have looked better as a 426x240 low resolution widescreen 2D game even. NO ONE wanted shitty 3D models. Their entire justification for 3D was that it was going to speed up development and be cheaper. We see how well that worked out.

 

[xAlucardx]

for the fans who didn't Experience the Saturn, here what makes it interesting, i marked the start


i am sorry but i am an old man and i have standrads when it comes to playing osmething like Castlevania, and igarashis every attempt at producing a 3d game was utter shit, Lament of innocece was a 3d version of SOTN he got so close to making a great game, but overal, forgettable and terrible in everything from Gameplay, mechanics and game design and that is omething that came out when he was under konami supervision, well Kojima lived under the same room and didn't produce shitty Castlevania Games on main consoles only to make Konami give it lower preoroty and ship it to portable market

sorry but igarashi isn't cut to making a great 3d castleviania, dracula x 2.5 remake was, Lord of shadow 2.5 DS side project was Garbage too, none was fun to play.

same with mercury Steam, with little Kojima supervision they made an incredible 3d castlevania in Lord of Shadows then without supervision and experiecne about the original game lore they gave us the Horrible sequel which made you transform into a RAT

 

[dirthead]

for the fans who didn't Experience the Saturn, here what makes it interesting, i marked the start


i am sorry but i am an old man and i have standrads when it comes to playing osmething like Castlevania, and igarashis every attempt at producing a 3d game was utter shit, Lament of innocece was a 3d version of SOTN he got so close to making a great game, but overal, forgettable and terrible in everything from Gameplay, mechanics and game design and that is omething that came out when he was under konami supervision, well Kojima lived under the same room and didn't produce shitty Castlevania Games on main consoles only to make Konami give it lower preoroty and ship it to portable market

sorry but igarashi isn't cut to making a great 3d castleviania, dracula x 2.5 remake was, Lord of shadow 2.5 DS side project was Garbage too, none was fun to play.

same with mercury Steam, with little Kojima supervision they made an incredible 3d castlevania in Lord of Shadows then without supervision and experiecne about the original game lore they gave us the Horrible sequel which made you transform into a RAT

SOTN should have got a Sonic Mania style version. The interesting thing about SOTN is that the original PS1 game is basically 16:10 aspect ratio because it was letterboxed to shit on the PS1 because they couldn't get it running at 60hz at full resolution.

 

[cartman414]

It really wasn't. It's still far better than all the follow up mobile variants. The thing about games like this is that they sort of live and die by the atmosphere and music. The music alone makes SOTN stand far above the others.



No, they're really not. Neither one of those games feels half as good as SOTN to play.

Neither of them are littered with long stretches such as this:

http://www.deixadilson.com/sotn/maps/Marble-Gallery

Plus they have more warp points, further expediating backtracking, one of Symphony's biggest flaws.

And if you really think games live and die by atmosphere and music, you must have some horribly skewed gaming tastes is all I can say. A game can have a sublime soundtrack but merely mediocre to good gameplay.

 

[dirthead]

Neither of them are littered with long stretches such as this:

http://www.deixadilson.com/sotn/maps/Marble-Gallery

Plus they have more warp points, further expediating backtracking, one of Symphony's biggest flaws.

And if you really think games live and die by atmosphere and music, you must have some horribly skewed gaming tastes is all I can say. A game can have a sublime soundtrack but merely mediocre to good gameplay.

Metroid and clones are basically 90% atmosphere. They're useless with shitty atmosphere and you can't have good atmosphere without awesome memorable music.

The wonderful animation and music alone AND the fact that game plays well makes SOTN the cream of the crop.

Parenthetically, I just noticed that the Saturn version of SOTN runs at a higher resolution than either the PS1 or PSP versions. So I've actually been missing out on the top and bottom of the stage tiles for my whole life. Nuts.

 

[cartman414]

Metroid and clones are basically 90% atmosphere. They're useless with shitty atmosphere and you can't have good atmosphere without awesome memorable music.

The wonderful animation and music alone AND the fact that game plays well makes SOTN the cream of the crop.

Parenthetically, I just noticed that the Saturn version of SOTN runs at a higher resolution than either the PS1 or PSP versions. So I've actually been missing out on the top and bottom of the stage tiles for my whole life. Nuts.

There are people who swear by the original Metroid because they prefer the atmosphere, even though Super Metroid was an exponential jump in gameplay.

The fact that Aria and Dawn play better than Symphony puts them above it as games, end of story.

 

[dirthead]

There are people who swear by the original Metroid because they prefer the atmosphere, even though Super Metroid was an exponential jump in gameplay.

The fact that Aria and Dawn play better than Symphony puts them above it as games, end of story.

I disagree that Aria and Dawn play better than SOTN. Curious to see specific thoughts about this. What makes the gameplay in them better? It's definitely open to debate. I think the atmosphere, music, and art in SOTN is clearly the best, though.

 

[Castef]

Well... actually, when they developed SOTN they had lots of sprites ready...

/runs away...

 

[Castef]

So, I was the only one who played Magicians & Looters?



Also, if you add Axiom Verge in your list you should really add Shadow Complex.

 

[kaydigi]

Can’t believe I dropped $300 on the Kickstarter, the e3 backer demo was abysmal.

 

[Belmonte]

I like how many people here realizes how much the GBA and DS titles improved the metroidvania formula. I like SOTN as much as the next guy, great atmosphere and all that, but gameplay-wise the posterior games were more creative and tight.

The difficulty is a mess in SOTN. Richter must have whipped Dracula so hard in Rondo of Blood that the castle got weakened in its SOTN ressurection.