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Bloomberg article on Switch 'Pro' - launches holiday '21, expect better uptake than PS4 Pro

DaleinCalgary

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Feb 9, 2014
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I can't see it. Nintendo releases a new one and then sells its old software again on it freshening it up.

I don't see a Mario kart Switch pro version for $70
 
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Dec 9, 2013
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There's only one thing that I've been salty for years about.....Nintendo dropping out of the high end console market. I would love to see them making games on a system with the same performance as their competitors.
They did that with the gamecube and you know what was the outcome
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
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The longer we wait the more ridiculous this gets..

I hope they plan to unveil it soon.
 
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Woopah

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This is absurd. They have 80 million Switch Owners and are a public company. Shareholders would have their heads if they held back games that could be sold now. Nintendo have always been slow to release big games and Covid is certainly a factor too. The Switch isn't the WiiU. They also just announced Splatoon 3 on the Switch in early 2022.
It isn't that absurd, we know Nintendo will strategically sit on games in order to space out releases. As you say Covid is also a factor, and with games from 2020 being delayed into the first half of 2021, it wouldn't surprise me if games that were originally meant for the first half of 2021 were pushed back into the 2nd half, even if they are pretty much done.

The other side of things is that Nintendo wants to launch games at the time when they will sell the most.If Nintendo thinks a game will sell better closer to the holiday season, or its a game they can use to push the new revision, they will sit on it.

I'm not saying for sure that's what they are doing, but it is a possibility.
 

The Skull

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If it's backwards compatible and offers enhancements to exisiting games then bring it on. That said, it'll need to be a decent upgrade to consider it.
 
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Derktron

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I can't see it. Nintendo releases a new one and then sells its old software again on it freshening it up.

I don't see a Mario kart Switch pro version for $70
What makes you think they'll be stupid enough to sell it at $70. They aren't Sony.
 

MrSec84

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Jul 1, 2020
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The new Nintendo Switch (Pro) will be around 1.6 TF in Docked Mode.

It could happen, with Ampere or Turing, but it depends on the thermal limits of the form factor Nintendo choses.
Maybe Nintendo could use a liquid metal cooler like PS5, just smaller, perhaps the heatsink will be a bit beefier.
Based on a 512 Cuda Core GPU, clocked at 1560Mhz the GPU alone with all Ampere tech, RT Cores included could be hitting 21 watts (that's a 1.597TFlop GPU), base Switch was something like 15.7 watts for the whole system when docked, the whole Switch Pro would have to use closer to 30 watts docked to accommodate that level of GPU performance.
Even a 1TFlop Ampere GPU would clock in at 13.64 Watts, just for the GPU.

Dynamic clocks like PS5 could be a potential answer, since games aren't statically demanding the maximum performance of the system throughout the whole time they're played.
DLSS may make that level of Flops unnecessary, especially with newer GPU Architecture, Ampere and Turing are more performant per Flop compared to Maxwell.

It's possible by removing the RT hardware from the GPU and just having Tensor Cores, in addition to 2X the Cuda Cores Switch Pro could get in that 1.6Tflop ballpark docked and use similar power to the 2017 model Switch on it's GPU, it's a pretty big ask though IMO.
 
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Woopah

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Yes. Natedrake already said it will have exclusive games. It’s only still being called switch pro because of the early rumors. This is switch 2
I don't think Nate ever said it was a successor or that games would be 'exclusuve'. He's just said there will be games on this revision that aren't in the Switch or Switch Lite (which likely includes third party ports).

The real Switch 2 will have exclusive games from Nintendo.
 
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Donnie

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I wouldn't expect all of the performance inside the handheld this time. It would require a very expensive highly engineered handheld to get top quality modern gaming at 4k and the display of the handheld itself will no doubt be 1080p at best anyway. So why spend huge sums to get that performance inside a handheld that would never use more than a quarter of that power when running in handheld mode. 4k performance will only be required when docked and its far cheaper to put hardware in a far bigger casing like that. So I'd expect improved performance in the handheld, say somewhere around 2tf but with further significant hardware inside the dock this time. The handheld with 2Tflops would have a 5x boost compared to Switch to run at twice the resolution leaving plenty of room for extra visual fidelity (also no doubt extra ram and bandwidth available plus better CPU). Then the extra hardware in the dock takes those visuals to 4k resolution.
 
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Investor9872

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Yes. Natedrake already said it will have exclusive games. It’s only still being called switch pro because of the early rumors. This is switch 2

No chance in hell that this will be the Switch 2 when the Switch has only been out for less than 4 years. It's a Switch "Pro" or any other Nintendo monikers, but not the Switch 2.
 
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MrSec84

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No chance in hell that this will be the Switch 2 when the Switch has only been out for less than 4 years. It's a Switch "Pro" or any other Nintendo monikers, but not the Switch 2.
It's already been 4 years since the Switch launched, it released on the 3rd of March 2017, if it launches this November then it would be closer to 5 years than 4 and given that Nintendo are contending with continuing to get multiplats which will not be able to run on the current Switch it would make sense for them to market the next Switch as a Switch 2.
A proper Switch successor would understandably get games that can't run on the base Switch and that system was already having issues running 8th gen games.
 
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MrSec84

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Jul 1, 2020
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I wouldn't expect all of the performance inside the handheld this time. It would require a very expensive highly engineered handheld to get top quality modern gaming at 4k and the display of the handheld itself will no doubt be 1080p at best anyway. So why spend huge sums to get that performance inside a handheld that would never use more than a quarter of that power when running in handheld mode. 4k performance will only be required when docked and its far cheaper to put hardware in a far bigger casing like that. So I'd expect improved performance in the handheld, say somewhere around 2tf but with further significant hardware inside the dock this time. The handheld with 2Tflops would have a 5x boost compared to Switch to run at twice the resolution leaving plenty of room for extra visual fidelity (also no doubt extra ram and bandwidth available plus better CPU). Then the extra hardware in the dock takes those visuals to 4k resolution.
The point is that it doesn't require some expensive, highly engineered handheld to achieve 4K, DLSS 2.0 removes the need to hit native 4K, plus the thermal limits of a portable device like Switch prevent rendering native at 4K anyway in even 8th gen multiplats on a Switch sized device.
Dropping clocks, perhaps disabling some Cuda Cores is more cost effective than manufacturing an additional device, with processing somewhere else, like in a separate dock.
2TFlops in a handheld likely isn't happening, even if Nintendo used Ampere, you're looking at a little over 20 watts just for the GPU, then you have the CPU, RAM and other components, 25-30 watts would have to be the TDP of that device, where base 2017 Switch used somewhere around 15-16 watts docked.
Portable Switch had something like 157GFlops FP32, I think Digital Foundry said that some games could tap into some boost clock profiles up to 468MHz or something like that, so around 240GFlops is what Switch can achieve in portable mode, but this is using Nvidia Maxwell architecture and no DLSS, which could be used in portable mode to help with battery life, while improving portable Image Quality on the new OLED Screen.
Portable mode in Switch Pro could see a 500Mhz 512 Cuda Core GPU hit 512GFlops, with more modern Architecture and the GPU would probably use under 6 Watts, games could run at 60FPS considering what ARM CPU tech is available and the battery life improvements could sell this thing to the masses quite easily.
That GPU could hit 1.2TFlops docked, base resolutions of 720p or 1080p, but DLSS 2.0 could allow for 2X1080p, for good resolution scaling on a 4K TV.

Currently the rumours are that the portable screen is 720p OLED, these kinds of specs would work with the thermal limits of a tablet Switch Sized with a 7 inch Screen (as stated by leakers) and boosting clocks takes care of the extra performance needed to get the base docked resolutions to where they need to be before DLSS takes scare of the intelligent upscaling for a 4K Display.
This could be a pretty affordable improvement, likely around the price of the 2017 Switch, but the boost is going to be pretty big, in line with the jump people saw going from base PS4 or XBox One to their hardware refreshes.
 
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Im sure it will be disappointing but I still got hope. Stand back and stand by, fellow Nintendo fans.

Game Of Thrones Drinking GIF by Sky
 

michaelius

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For fuck's sake. 4 years later the og Switch is still $300. I guess it's too much to ask for the refresh to launch at $300 in tandem with the og Switch dropping to $200 (with Lite going to $150 or less).

I mean why? They are strugling to meet demand for Switch at current price so why would they drop it ?

Especially with competition just resetting their prices back to 500$
 

Thesuffering79

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Feb 27, 2021
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Ideally.

This guy is an ideally asshole.

Well ideally is the right word. It assumes that the new Switch will have DLSS and can run it well to up-res games to 4k. Whether it will happen is another issue altogether in multiple scenarios. New Tegra chips already have Tensor cores so it is possible.
 

MrSec84

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Jul 1, 2020
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So he's saying it's going to be around a GTX 1650 in terms of capabilities, which can run games like Red Dead 2 at 4K 30FPS (with dips), that puts that GPU between a PS4 Pro and a Xbox One X, but this GPU uses 75 watts with a 12nm manufacturing process and Turing architecture.
Using Ampere power consumption would shoot down to 42-43 watts, full Ampere, with RT cores, maybe taking the RT Cores out drops power consumption to the 30s, which is still way too high for docked mode in a Switch sized form factor.
PS4 Pro and Xbox One X doesn't have a realistic shot of happening for the GPU, better than their CPU is basically a given, but DLSS 2.0 or better would provide better results than Pro's Checkerboard Rendering and likely better IQ than XBox One X hitting native 4K, if Switch Pro can render games like Red Dead at 1080p, AI Upscaled to 4K.
3TFlops Turing/Ampere just isn't needed.
Ampere, with 512 Cuda Cores at say 1.2GHz would use between 10 to 15 watts if the RT Cores were removed, that's probably capable enough to render a game like Red Dead 2 at 900p to 1080p native 30FPS, then DLSS 2.0 would provide better PS4 Pro's Checkerboard Rendering Results at close to 4K.
If Nintendo had dynamic clocks they reduce temps overall, but you're not getting the native rendering results of PS4 Pro or XBox One X in a Switch sized handheld, tablet device.
 

Ten_Fold

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Jan 18, 2017
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Well Xbox one x is VERY close to current gen so I’m not so sure they can put that power in a handheld. Maybe base PS4 or ps4pro at best, which wouldn’t be bad, you would get current gen ports still.
 

prag16

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I mean why? They are strugling to meet demand for Switch at current price so why would they drop it ?

Especially with competition just resetting their prices back to 500$
Sure. But this has to be some kind of record for longest stretch a console stayed at its initial MSRP. Blown right past the 4 year mark.
 
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NickFire

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Betting against Nintendo usually loses, but 399 just seems really steep if the competitors have available inventory later this year.
 
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ultrazilla

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So its a new console then?

Absolutely.

This is an entirely new Switch sku. Not a "revision" or simply a Switch with a better OLED screen.

This is a new SOC with more memory/computing power for developers, new GPU, DLSS, OLED screen, etc.

There's still a ton of gamers who haven't "bought in" to the idea of a Nintendo Switch because of the performance/weak hardware.

Now that Nintendo is releasing a system with more horsepower, it'll get those fence sitters to finally make a Nintendo purchase.

I'm calling it now. We WILL get the Grand Theft Auto 5: Definitive Edition and Red Dead Redemption 2 announced for the Nintendo Switch UP. I also think we'll be
seeing Borderlands 3, EA finally going "all in" with franchises like Battlefield, Need for Speed, Madden, NHL. It's gonna be epic.
 

Dream-Knife

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Feb 22, 2021
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Absolutely.

This is an entirely new Switch sku. Not a "revision" or simply a Switch with a better OLED screen.

This is a new SOC with more memory/computing power for developers, new GPU, DLSS, OLED screen, etc.

There's still a ton of gamers who haven't "bought in" to the idea of a Nintendo Switch because of the performance/weak hardware.

Now that Nintendo is releasing a system with more horsepower, it'll get those fence sitters to finally make a Nintendo purchase.

I'm calling it now. We WILL get the Grand Theft Auto 5: Definitive Edition and Red Dead Redemption 2 announced for the Nintendo Switch UP. I also think we'll be
seeing Borderlands 3, EA finally going "all in" with franchises like Battlefield, Need for Speed, Madden, NHL. It's gonna be epic.
This line of thinking never made sense to me. If you wanted to play those games, why not just get any other system? Then the fan boys could also quit crying about ports that will never come.

As long as Nintendo games, and I guess SMT 5 still work with the regular switch, then I don't really care.
 

Bernd Lauert

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idk about specs but if the Switch Pro runs everything at a 1080p60 baseline (docked) with some DLSS potential I'll be more than happy. Playing some games at 720p30 on a big TV is just tiresome.
 
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justiceiro

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Is it really though? By partnering with Nintendo they were able to sell outdated Tegra X1 chips by the boatload--much more than they could have ever done on their own. This was a deal made in heaven for them lol. Why wouldn't they want to do it all over again with a custom made chip this time?
Because they stopped doing customs for some time now, and Nintendo is not know for giving continuity in it's products. It's not worth in the long run.
 

Punished Miku

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Jan 13, 2018
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If it launches with Breath of the Wild 2, the truth is Nintendo can do anything they want.

With PS5s and Xboxs flying off the shelves, the time may be right for them to consider a higher price point with a strong launch line-up. That's especially true if they have a few major games ready while Sony and MS don't seem to have software ready to go.