alabtrosMyster
Banned
They would look even better with raytraced Global Illumination and better textures.
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Bloomberg article on Switch 'Pro' - launches holiday '21, expect better uptake than PS4 Pro
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
93xfan
Banned
I don’t believe that
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Derktron
Banned
That's exactly what I meant, if you look up the patent they published back in 2017 of the Supplemental Computing Device, the diagram showed some type of box which in this case is the Switch Dock outputting power to the Switch. But in the picture, it shows something totally different from what I'm talking about. Again patents can change and I can see the Switch Dock being the powerhouse that the Switch needs. What I'm thinking (if they do it correctly if it ever does come out) if there is a Switch Pro, I could see the Switch dock being the powerhouse of the system itself. Sort of like the external GPU's that you can buy for some gaming laptops. The funny thing is those things are meant for Nvidia GPUs (at least from what I've seen) and I could definitely see the Switch dock being an external GPU/CPU for the Switch Pro.
Here's an example.
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Edgelord79
Gold Member
That's something I never knew and had to Google. Thanks!
Captain Toad
Banned
More like a theoretical Xbox 360 X or PS3 Pro.
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killatopak
Gold Member
very interested in getting one but I fear for PS5 like scarcity.
StateofMajora
Banned
Switch is already that
Woopah
Member
If it was just that it wouldn't require new Dev kits.
tkscz
Member
I said Orin not Xavier.
TikiLagoonSam
Member
If the switch pro can handle ps4 level graphics games , does the switch cartridge have enough capacity to hold those 3rd party games? A switch that can play all those 3rd party games on the go would be a game changer.
Derktron
Banned
I’m sure they’ll get to use the 64Gb cards would be use, which in reality would be enough.
Animagic
Banned
Will everyday people actually be able to preorder and reserve a system, or will bot farms buy them all? I don’t trust Nintendo to care about it either. They’ve shown no interest in trying to fix this sort of thing with NES classic/SNES classic, other limited edition stuff.
I honestly have zero confidence in being able to get one when it comes out after seeing how PS5 & XSX launches went, so I’ll wait until I can go to a store and buy one in person.
Also, if they don’t take this opportunity to redesign the contacts for the joycon analogs, then they are dumb.
I honestly have zero confidence in being able to get one when it comes out after seeing how PS5 & XSX launches went, so I’ll wait until I can go to a store and buy one in person.
Also, if they don’t take this opportunity to redesign the contacts for the joycon analogs, then they are dumb.
prag16
Banned
For fuck's sake. 4 years later the og Switch is still $300. I guess it's too much to ask for the refresh to launch at $300 in tandem with the og Switch dropping to $200 (with Lite going to $150 or less).
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Sure, at a small fee of $60
FearlessBelgian
Member
It is absolutely impossible that the Switch pro is more powerful than the PS4 Pro, why? Because the most powerful mobile graphics chip is barely at the level of an Xbox one (classic) (1.2 Tflops) ... The adreno 660, the most powerful mobile GPU offers "only" 1.7Tflops of power, the PS4 Pro is 4.2 Tflops ... and the price for this GPU is far too high for a mainstream console. .. So all of this is bullshit.
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Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
The m1 is either hooked to mains or a juicy laptop battery, a better comparison would be an iPad.
HAL-01
Member
Of course the switch is not going to perform like a PS4 pro while on handheld mode, but it will docked.
I’ve said it before, it’s not hard to imagine nvidia making a custom 2TF gpu for the switch, one that renders at 1080p natively and upscales to 4K through DLSS.
When in handheld mode, it’ll cut its speed to around 1TF, perfect for running PS4 quality games on that new 720p oled.
This is the only way all of these various reports make sense together. It’s not a 3ds to new 3ds, it’s a NES to SNES
Armorian
Banned
It won't be that. Mobile hardware doesn't progress in such speed anymore. My guess is ~1TF when in handheld mode (PS4 power when docked?), but if this thing gets DLSS then this could be interesting.
mcjmetroid
Member
No interest.
I knew they were holding back games for this for at least 2 years now. Not falling for it again.
We got about 2 years of a great Switch games lineup. Not worth it for me.
I knew they were holding back games for this for at least 2 years now. Not falling for it again.
We got about 2 years of a great Switch games lineup. Not worth it for me.
Just a reminder, Tegra X1 was 1Tf (512Gf FP32 1Ghz Max) in 2015 with 256 maxwell cores
in 2016 TX2 was release with 750Gf FP32
in 2018 Jetson AGX Xavier with 1.4Tf FP32 64 Tensor Cores, but was 899USD, too expensive for nintendo tastes
NVIDIA Jetson AGX Xavier 16 GB Specs
NVIDIA GV10B, 1377 MHz, 512 Cores, 32 TMUs, 16 ROPs, 16384 MB LPDDR4X, 2133 MHz, 256 bitwww.techpowerup.com
And last year Jetson Xavier NX was release with 1Tf FP32 64 Tensor cores 384 volta cores at 399USD, this is basically a cheaper Jetson AGX and interesdly it has NX in the name, which is the Nintendo Switch code name.
NVIDIA Jetson Xavier NX 8 GB Specs
NVIDIA GV10B, 1100 MHz, 384 Cores, 24 TMUs, 16 ROPs, 8192 MB LPDDR4X, 1866 MHz, 128 bit
This thing is 12nm @ 854ghz base (Switch TX1 is heavily underclocked in portable mode @384-460ghz with 20nm), so it would be easily at Xbox One levels in portable mode at stock clocks in 720p, even PS4 levels with DLSS. In dock mode this chipset can be clock at 1377Ghz max put in it at PS4 Pro levels with DLSS
Power draw is just over 10 wats without screen so maybe too high (its meant for cars right?), maybe they down clock it again in handheld and it fits the power draw requirement. While its really annoying that its 12nm... current best is 5mn (if reworked for a smaller node it would use much less power) but there's no capacity at 5nm or 7nm at the moment so they would at least be able to launch next year
No.. Consider the Xbox One X at load draws 172W - its on an older older manufacturing node though.. but we do have a new console that is comparable-ish in performance in the Xbox Series S that draws 100w at load.
Switch in its current design uses 10watts.. DLSS helps boost resolution so for example a game may run 30-50% quicker at 4k than it otherwise would. There's still so much more in play E.G memory bandwidth, video memory size..
Apple currently have the most efficient silicon and If the next iPad pro rivals a Xbox Series S for power (don't think it will...) consider the cost of it.
Nintendo has not used cutting edge tech in years, opting for cheaper established manufacturing nodes. They also go within a budget and sell at profit.
All these things point to the total improbability of your train of thought.
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German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
ultrazilla
Member
I have a feeling doubters will be proven wrong this time. All we can do is wait and see. Leaks shouldn't be too far away with the dev kits being out in the wild.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
The Switch isn't gonna use a Qualcomm chip. It's gonna be a custom built chip from Nvidia. Now I'm not saying the GPU is gonna be equivalent to the PS4 Pro, I'd find that very unlikely. But it's technically possible, especially when you consider that Nvidia flops >>> GCN flops.
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Samsung S21 is over £600, latest process (5nm) best non apple chipset. A comparable Switch would not be any cheaper. Apple's M1 which is the best current chipset (pound for pound if you will...as much as I loathe Apple) has a GPU capable of 2.6 TFLOPS. That's the cutting edge and uses more power than the Switch. There is no chance that Nvidia has a 10w mobile chipset now that can do 4.2 of anyone's Tflops. None.
I just don't see how people on here can avoid common sense ("despite the last 4 gens... this time Nintendo will"... "Nintendo are currently winning but will change tack"...etc..etc...) or Physics (handheld Xbox One X, PS4 pro)
Hope drives people insane.
ultrazilla
Member
There's simply too much smoke here with the MULTIPLE Bloomberg articles to *not* be true. It's happening. I'm also highly confident that this won't simply be a "new screen" situation.
I believe the rumors of the Mariko chip being discontinued which would point to an all new SOC(custom no doubt) most likely based on ORIN which will have DLSS on board along
with Mariko backwards compatibility to play OG games on it.
All that said, I think this will be a sizeable upgrade. Performance of new games coming out are suffering with developers struggling with the OG's power like Panic Button who are
wizards of Switch ports.
This will surprise people, it's gonna be a very nice upgrade. Nintendo simply can't afford to just plop a new OLED screen in the OG model and call it a day. That would create massive backlash
and pretty much kill off any remaining third party support. Nintendo knows that.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Hope the upgrade goes towards 60fps and not more eye candy. Who am I kidding, right?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This CAN'T be what the article was trying to say.
Nintendo are currently winning, unless it was not correct wasn't there a thread on here saying that the Switch has generated more money than the PS4? All without a any/decent version of FIFA, COD, BF.... third party doesn't mater that much, people buy Switch for Nintendo games. Nintendo could afford to just put out a better screen and a slightly revised chipset so games run at a solid 30fps, it would still sell bucket loads. Everyone would love to see a more ambitious Nintendo but why would they change when there winning?
I would like to be surprised...
ultrazilla
Member
Nintendo had that recent interview where Furakawa stated that he along with people in Nintendo were not content with keeping the status quo and that he was terrified of not having plans for the company and that every year was a "do or die" situation.
Nintendo President Furakawa interview from earlier this month, click text for link.
“Not matter the hits, in the entertainment business, people someday do lose interest. Up until now, we have repeatedly had the experience of our business taking a nosedive.
I simply don't think Nintendo going with just a bigger OLED screen and 4k upscale chip lines up with these recent coments.
No, they want to stay competitive. They need the thirdy party PS5/Xbox Series X ports. They need the heavy hitter franchises like Madden, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Need for Speeds, NHL Hockey, Grand Theft Auto 5, etc.
THOSE types of games will drive sales and a substantially new powerful Nintendo Switch will also get the "hardcore gamers" to buy a system who've generally looked at the OG Switch as a weak, underpowered system and avoid
buying it.
There's a huge untapped market for Nintendo in that demographic. It would be foolish to continually ignore it, especially if they want to drive sales. Gamers will spend the $350-$399 if the system can handle ports well
that were previously PS4(Pro) and Xbox One(X) only.....
As a matter of fact, I think they'll LOSE existing customers who WANT a bump in system power. If the new system comes out and it's basically just a oled screen and upscaling chip, I'm DONE with my Switch and will
sell it.
The ball's in Nintendo's court. It's about time they play instead of going home with it.
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It would be much more Nintendo if they suddenly unveiled a Nintendo style 'Oculus quest' (Virtual Boy 2
) rather than a handheld that could keep up with current gen ports (for that to make sense over the next few years they would really need to aim at stuff that will be running on series s). Nintendo not content with keeping the status quo typically means coming up with new platform ideas rather than going for power.My money would still be on a minor refresh at the end of this year and a more upgraded Switch 2.0 within 2 years. Switch isn't that old and they have a history of shit hardware tweaks.
carlosrox
Banned
This is how I feel. It makes a lot of sense and Nintendo was actually more aggressive with the Switch than they have been for a while so it makes me think if they wanna ensure continued success of the Switch, they'll do the right thing.
But we all know Nintendo makes some bizarre moves sometimes.
I'd be ecstatic with base PS4 power alone. The PS4 was able to pump out incredible visuals. Anything else is a cherry on top at this point.
TAS
Member
Is it really though? By partnering with Nintendo they were able to sell outdated Tegra X1 chips by the boatload--much more than they could have ever done on their own. This was a deal made in heaven for them lol. Why wouldn't they want to do it all over again with a custom made chip this time?
StateofMajora
Banned
Mobile hardware has been accelerating faster than PC for a decade at least. The power is there, the issue for Nintendo is price and heat depending on the fab process.
They could easily beat base ps4 if they wanted to chuck money around. Which they probably do not.
This discussion grows tiresome because it’s wholly dependent on if it’s a switch 2 or *new* switch and I wish we knew that at least.
Oh, if you were saying it can’t be ps4 pro performance then yes I agree.
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whattheduck
Banned
Bro your analysis is WAAAY off in my opinion.
Nintendo has NEVER been about raw power. They pooped all over Sony and Microsoft last gen in terms of sales (and arguably brand recognition - the Switch name is a highly favored one), despite launching their much weaker console years after theirs.
Nintendo is known as a kid friendly brand. COD and Madden gamers aren't going to start abandoning their beloved PlayStations and Xboxes just because the console with Mario suddenly has the same games. Hell, there's even the ever-growing PC market to contend with too, which is surely stealing a lot of gamers away who would otherwise still be playing consoles.
The Switch has put them in a fantastic position, and they've always put out weird and innovative consoles at a lower production cost. Why you think they would abandon that strategy despite literally being on top of the console world in terms of sales is baffling to me. An upgraded Switch will appeal to a subset of their core audience, and then 2-3 years later they will bring out a whole new console and begin the dance again.
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I can certainly see a new Switch getting a similar performance jump, probably with an even bigger CPU performance jump than PS4 Pro or Xbox One X had compared to their successors.
It's difficult to do the math exactly with power consumption, but using an RTX 3060 as a basis to extrapolate from, that GPU consumes 170 watts, has 3584 Cuda Cores, clocked at 1780Mhz.
Scaling down to 512 Cuda Cores a GPU at the same speed could presumably use 24.28 watts, half that clock speed would use 12.14 watts, that would be a 512 CC GPU, clocked at 890Mhz, which would hit 911GFlops, but given that DLSS is all but certainly to be a feature of the device clocks could drop well below that, while still being a massive improvement in final GPU performance in portable mode compared to the 2017 Switch hardware.
Nintendo could very well also rip out the RT Cores, so that would also have a knock on effect in power consumption too.
DLSS in portable mode is the big thing I take away from this, as resolutions well below a native 720p could still look significantly better on that OLED screen.
Obviously Flops going from one architecture to another aren't directly comparable, but 512 Cuda Cores at say 500MHz would produce 512 GFlops, using Ampere Architecture (assuming Ampere is used, but obviously we don't know whether it's Ampere or Turing), the launch Maxwell Switch using 256 Cuda Cores clocked at 307.2Mhz produced 157.28GFlop, in raw Flops that's a 3.25X performance increase and going by my math a 512CC Ampere with all of the RT and Turing hardware at 500Mhz would only use 6-7 watts, which could be a fantastic base level of performance for a 7inch 720p OLED Switch.
Native 720p should be very doable in games at 60FPS in Switch games that traditionally run at even sub 30FPS.
ARM CPU cores are also significantly more capable now.
This would be the kind of performance I would expect, maybe not full clocks in docked mode, but I don't see why a 24 watt GPU couldn't work in docked mode and TBH the end results with DLSS could be close to PS4 Pro or even XBox One X, using native 1080p as a base resolution, then AI Upscaled to 4K.
Hopefully Pro users will have access any cross gen multiplats and some not too demanding next gen exclusive 3rd Party AAA games, it will all depend on whether the system has a good enough ARM CPU, a sufficiently fast enough NVME drive, etc.
It's difficult to do the math exactly with power consumption, but using an RTX 3060 as a basis to extrapolate from, that GPU consumes 170 watts, has 3584 Cuda Cores, clocked at 1780Mhz.
Scaling down to 512 Cuda Cores a GPU at the same speed could presumably use 24.28 watts, half that clock speed would use 12.14 watts, that would be a 512 CC GPU, clocked at 890Mhz, which would hit 911GFlops, but given that DLSS is all but certainly to be a feature of the device clocks could drop well below that, while still being a massive improvement in final GPU performance in portable mode compared to the 2017 Switch hardware.
Nintendo could very well also rip out the RT Cores, so that would also have a knock on effect in power consumption too.
DLSS in portable mode is the big thing I take away from this, as resolutions well below a native 720p could still look significantly better on that OLED screen.
Obviously Flops going from one architecture to another aren't directly comparable, but 512 Cuda Cores at say 500MHz would produce 512 GFlops, using Ampere Architecture (assuming Ampere is used, but obviously we don't know whether it's Ampere or Turing), the launch Maxwell Switch using 256 Cuda Cores clocked at 307.2Mhz produced 157.28GFlop, in raw Flops that's a 3.25X performance increase and going by my math a 512CC Ampere with all of the RT and Turing hardware at 500Mhz would only use 6-7 watts, which could be a fantastic base level of performance for a 7inch 720p OLED Switch.
Native 720p should be very doable in games at 60FPS in Switch games that traditionally run at even sub 30FPS.
ARM CPU cores are also significantly more capable now.
This would be the kind of performance I would expect, maybe not full clocks in docked mode, but I don't see why a 24 watt GPU couldn't work in docked mode and TBH the end results with DLSS could be close to PS4 Pro or even XBox One X, using native 1080p as a base resolution, then AI Upscaled to 4K.
Hopefully Pro users will have access any cross gen multiplats and some not too demanding next gen exclusive 3rd Party AAA games, it will all depend on whether the system has a good enough ARM CPU, a sufficiently fast enough NVME drive, etc.
StateofMajora
Banned
Did you start gaming in 2008?
Woopah
Member
They wouldn't be abandoning anything. The Switch and Switch Lite would still be on the market and continue their current sales curve, while this new premium mode retails for a higher price and appeals to people who want higher resolutions/framerates or will want to play the third party games that will only play on this revision.
Also helps extend the lifecycle of the Switch until 2024.
whattheduck
Banned
Well admittedly "never" was an overexaggeration. But it has been true for the last 20 years. The idea that they will come out with a new Switch to rival the new Xbox and PS within the next year is just asinine.
Eh? I wasn't talking about Nintendo abandoning the Switch. Read it again.
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DaGwaphics
Member
Your theory just doesn't seem possible to be honest. Even if they do have a 4TF GPU (TF are a little overstated on Ampere so it could push the total up if using the latest tech - doubtful for Nintendo), how much bandwidth do they have? Dropping from 200 - 300GB/s down to maybe 40-50GB/s would still be crushing. PS4 Pro/1X levels of performance in a small tablet still seems like a bridge too far, IMO. However, it's always good to see technology improving, so, I'd be pleasantly surprised if that turned out to be the case.
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Woopah
Member
My bad, I misread your post.
shenmue mugen
Member
There's only one thing that I've been salty for years about.....Nintendo dropping out of the high end console market. I would love to see them making games on a system with the same performance as their competitors.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
This is absurd. They have 80 million Switch Owners and are a public company. Shareholders would have their heads if they held back games that could be sold now. Nintendo have always been slow to release big games and Covid is certainly a factor too. The Switch isn't the WiiU. They also just announced Splatoon 3 on the Switch in early 2022.