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Bloomberg Op-Ed: "Video Game Industry Struggles to Shake Sexist Attitudes" (Ties in "sexism" with harassment at companies like Activision)

GymWolf

Gold Member
Its always hard to tell when people are joking or not during these crazy times.
 

Tams

Member
The entire article reads like it was written by someone who doesn't play games and is basing his entire opinion of them on 5 minutes of research and some ad he saw in the 90's

Tomb Raider?



These are the outfits that are too sexy for him to handle and make it impossible to play the game in front of his family?
Dude is acting like it's next to impossible to find games with women that aren't in bikini Armor when we just had The Game Awards a couple of weeks ago with big trailers for stuff like Hellblade 2, Forspoken and A Plague Tale
He wants to play Genshin Impact for anything other than the lollis.

I think we can safely assume he's an idiot.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
Lol it’s gaming don’t force logic into it, she wears a tight tank top and tight shorts because the developers wanted to look at her wearing that, and it’s perfectly okay.

I don’t know what this cancer is about but it’s weird when real life isn’t like this. Where I live women are wearing tighter clothes than ever. Essentially, if you have a butt then you show it with carefully chosen skin tight pants, if you don’t have a butt you go to the gym to get one. You don’t see a woman with nice curves cover up in loose clothes that don’t show the curves. If she have it she’ll proudly show the curves even more. Same thing with men, a fit muscular man usually wear a t-shirt that show off his muscles more. In real life people just love to show off when they have something worth showing.

I think this cover up madness is getting traction simply because developers are scared about drama on social media. I don’t understand it. Japanese devs don’t care. Why are western devs so bothered about it? They can show someone getting his intestines pulled out but a beautiful body needs to be covered up. It’s dumb.

I ain't even able to climb stairs bro.

I think it has more to do with getting older as a guy.

When u are 15 years old u want any tits and ass u can find, the skimpier the better.
When u are 25 years old u already got that ass, and u are fine whatever gets fed.
When u hit 35 years old, u probably start to have kids or already have kids and if you got a daughter suddently 12 year old half naked super sexualized chick is no longer that funny. U get disgusting by it.

I think also that's why we see such a huge influx of people in the game segment that are relative young going against displaying girls as sex symbols because they are simple getting older.

I can relate towards it myself because as 25 year old playing genshi impact or whatever its called would not have been a issue for me, 35 years old, i simple don't touch it because of the characters in it. i feel socially awkward at this point in stage if i do, so its a big no.

Now do i go around and lecture people on what i like or don't like? no not really. But i can see that older people start to get issue's with oversexualized girls in games that are relative young.

The thing is no matter how many studio's like ND, SSM etc try to make grimdark, serious games it is still a hobby for teens and young men predominantly. That's the market. Despite any 'M' rating on games. Stuff like Owen railing Abby, or the kissing scenes from Dragon Age Inquisiton are just as 'cringe'. If it really affects people they should walk away or avoid those games. Lord knows there are thousands of games. I don't touch Genshin Impact mainly because it's a mobile gacha game even though it has a console version, same as diablo immortal and skyrim blades for example.

You know, do these people get embarrassed watching cartoons like the simpsons, family guy, arcane, castlevania, marvel superhero films etc? Are they the types that leave the room or look at their phone when you see a rampant sex scene in films/series? Everyone consumes shite that is embarassing on some level. Whether that's stupid soaps, sitcoms or cartoons. If people have some weird hang ups on wanting everyone to approve of what you watch, I'd say that's their personal issue.

You have to also contextualise the cringe shite kids are already seeing on the likes of TikTok, Insta, Twitter etc. Which is just as inappropriate and mostly even worse.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member

I ain't even able to climb stairs bro.



The thing is no matter how many studio's like ND, SSM etc try to make grimdark, serious games it is still a hobby for teens and young men predominantly. That's the market. Despite any 'M' rating on games. Stuff like Owen railing Abby, or the kissing scenes from Dragon Age Inquisiton are just as 'cringe'. If it really affects people they should walk away or avoid those games. Lord knows there are thousands of games. I don't touch Genshin Impact mainly because it's a mobile gacha game even though it has a console version, same as diablo immortal and skyrim blades for example.

You know, do these people get embarrassed watching cartoons like the simpsons, family guy, arcane, castlevania, marvel superhero films etc? Are they the types that leave the room or look at their phone when you see a rampant sex scene in films/series? Everyone consumes shite that is embarassing on some level. Whether that's stupid soaps, sitcoms or cartoons. If people have some weird hang ups on wanting everyone to approve of what you watch, I'd say that's their personal issue.

You have to also contextualise the cringe shite kids are already seeing on the likes of TikTok, Insta, Twitter etc. Which is just as inappropriate and mostly even worse.
I can almost taste the smell of that pic.
 

Vae_Victis

Banned
"N-no sweetie, of course I'm not playing this Japanese video game because I feel attracted to these skimpy pre-pubescent anime girls, h-how could you say that? I'm doing... research! Yeah, research! For an article I'm writing, you know? About how all females in video games are a terrible portrayal of patriarchal sexist stereotypes! You know what, actually, I think I'll go finish writing it and publish it right now!"
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
"N-no sweetie, of course I'm not playing this Japanese video game because I feel attracted to these skimpy pre-pubescent anime girls, h-how could you say that? I'm doing... research! Yeah, research! For an article I'm writing, you know? About how all females in video games are a terrible portrayal of patriarchal sexist stereotypes! You know what, actually, I think I'll go finish writing it and publish it right now!"
Sure honey, continue with your article while i go out dancing with our handsome neighboor.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
"N-no sweetie, of course I'm not playing this Japanese video game because I feel attracted to these skimpy pre-pubescent anime girls, h-how could you say that? I'm doing... research! Yeah, research! For an article I'm writing, you know? About how all females in video games are a terrible portrayal of patriarchal sexist stereotypes! You know what, actually, I think I'll go finish writing it and publish it right now!"

Kinda strange he would call his mother sweetie.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
It's not about you or me, it's that u look at your daughter and think about her.

For example, if you are 20 and u are making a game for a game studio that is something like whore tycoon, u are probably have some mighty fun getting that shit going and are even proud on it because all your buddy's find it cool.

However when u are 35 years old, and u got a daughter and she comes to work u start to feel a bit awkward to the point, u probably want to do something else. Because u can already imagine when she asks why are all those females naked dad. yea gg.

This is why u even see heavy story driven games like god of war or tlou all become dad simulators where anything sexual is taken out and its more centered around the kid that the old guy ( you as player ) is guiding.

Now personally i don't care people can make whatever they want, but u have people that do care and will demand change because its there way or the high way mentality. U always have those.
I can’t disagree more. Naked characters is awkward but your daughter walking in on you playing a game featuring a hot clothed woman is so much less problematic than current extreme gaming violence, you can’t play 99% of the games released today anyway with kids beside you. Play whatever you want at night and stop worry about your kids seeing hot gaming ladies.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Tomb raider on hard mode,less stamina and platforms break almost instantly
Well I like a decent amount of challenge, and meat, so I think it would be interesting with something inbetween normal and hard. If Square Enix would let their japanese character artists create Lara instead of Eidos/CD it would probably be great. I’ve been down on FF7RI lately but Tifa is just all out awesome. 👏
 

mrBandoza

Neo Member
It’s a structural problem that we depict and decide what women should look like, and be able to do and that is something that is ongoibg today.

In Sweden where I’m from womens wages are lower then mens even if they do the exakt same work. Very strange and apperently very hard to change.

The game industry is very immature and have a history of making games with questionable character designs to say the least.

To solve this you need to give and take and be able to discuss the matter and change the consensus around these things so that it doesn’t matter how a character look.

If it is a sexy look you want well sure do that. But you shouldn’t do it just because a woman or a man needs to have muscles and big breasts just because.

As usual here at GAF you see an outrage everytime someone even mentions the subject and cries about ”We want good looking bitches” and such. That in itselg is the problem today. That you can’t even disscuss the subject without being aroused like a buthurt teenager.

Women in gaming have come a long way and I for one prefer characters that look more real over fantasy. Ofcourse depending on what type of game it is. Last of us part 2 is for example excellent in it’s realistic character design. At the same time Gears of war is great for what that franchise.
 

Concern

Member
who cares, its someone’s opinion.

My problem with whores in video games is that clearly a nerd wrote them. Whores in movies move the plot along and serve a purpose. Whores in video games make me universally cringe. Not all gamers are losers that cant get a gfs.

Games will get there.

Kind Of Reaction GIF by Bounce


Wrote that like you have some type of built up animosity towards women.... like maybe someone who's been rejected a lot. Cringe stuff lol
 
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Fredrik

Gold Member
Women in gaming have come a long way and I for one prefer characters that look more real over fantasy. Ofcourse depending on what type of game it is. Last of us part 2 is for example excellent in it’s realistic character design. At the same time Gears of war is great for what that franchise.
Where in Sweden are butch muscular women realistic? Where I live the women are absolutely gorgeous and feminine and aren’t afraid to show off any curves if they have it, if anything they show too much and it’s amazing I haven’t turned cross-eyed yet.
 
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manzo

Member
I think it has more to do with getting older as a guy.

When u are 15 years old u want any tits and ass u can find, the skimpier the better.
When u are 25 years old u already got that ass, and u are fine whatever gets fed.
When u hit 35 years old, u probably start to have kids or already have kids and if you got a daughter suddently 12 year old half naked super sexualized chick is no longer that funny. U get disgusting by it.

I think also that's why we see such a huge influx of people in the game segment that are relative young going against displaying girls as sex symbols because they are simple getting older.

I can relate towards it myself because as 25 year old playing genshi impact or whatever its called would not have been a issue for me, 35 years old, i simple don't touch it because of the characters in it. i feel socially awkward at this point in stage if i do, so its a big no.

Now do i go around and lecture people on what i like or don't like? no not really. But i can see that older people start to get issue's with oversexualized girls in games that are relative young.

Oh come the fuck on. I’m 40 next year with 2 kids, older soon in her pre-teens, I’m actually more horny than when I was your age.

Age has nothing to do with this shit. It’s more about the weird puritanicalism of the woke crowd on sexuality. It’s so fucking American, you can show the most gag-indulging gore oin a video game, but should a rendered female character show too much skin? Release the hounds.

Can’t blame the writer though. When sexuality is being supressed as much as it’s now being in the states, no wonder why he’s so much against it. As he sees scantily clad women, he feels shamed or embarrassed. That’s his upbringing. Instead of seeing a beautiful imaginary character and thinking that “god damn, I wish she would be real so that I could fuck her” he acts like he does in his column.

There is nothing wrong in being aroused. That’s what he is afraid of. Instead of being ashamed of fucking imaginary polygons on a screen, just laugh at it. But christ, as a human male with a sex drive and testosterone in your blood, don’t be fucking ashamed of it.
 

UnNamed

18+ Member
Women don't want to be sexy, they don't exist, they would be disqualified as women if this was true. Or, if they exist, is to please toxic masculinity. You need to meet some strict criteria to be part in Women©, the largest exclusive club in the world.

Feminists say.
 

Woopah

Member
Horizon was successful in spite of its boring, ugly, snarky, dimwit protagonist not because of it. And I want to tell these people her gender is fucking irrelevant anyway if you’re not a flag-waving ideologue. So tired of all this omfg already.
That's part of the author's point though, that Horizon helped show that you could have a non-sexualised female character and that the game would still sell.

Now maybe this seems obvious now, but it wasn't always. For a long time video game publishers had pre-conceptions over what identities should appear in video games, and one of those pre-conceptions was "women don't sell". That's why Sony was really worried about Horizon being too risky for having a woman as the lead character. They even carried out some focus testing around the gender of the protagonist, which they wouldn't have done if the protagonist was male.

That's one of the reasons why the success of Horizon is so good. Not only does it helps show that quality new IPs can do really well, it also helps dispel the ""women don't sell" myth.
This, also what make a game great is not the gender of the character or whatsoever, is the entire package that make. No matter what type of character it is, it's more of if the character fits or not, a DMC game wouldn't work with female lead, and a TR game wouldn't work with a male lead, and an Okami game won't work as well with a human lead. Thinking that characters like Lara or Dante are only popular because of their looks and outfits only shows how ignorant those lowtier journalists are, those are not gaming fans, those are propaganda fans to fulfill their click and paycheck, in a sens i understand someone need money for living, but there are better ways to earn money without doing propagandas, at least i think so.

In any case, those who make games based on agendas their game can never be a legendary game, an epic game comes from those who make games they want to make and are passionate about the art.
This links to my point above, but I wanted to specifically address it because your post mentions Lara.

Lara Croft was also nearly a victim of the preconceptions I mentioned above. The initial reaction from the publisher was "are you insane? We don't do girls in video games!". Thankfully the character's creator, Toby Gard, was able to stick to his guns and convince the publisher to let the game have a female protagonist. However, Toby would then go to to quit the game, specifically because the publisher took his creation and turned her into a sex symbol. So the journalist is not entirely incorrect.
 

ANDS

Thought gaf was racist. Now knows better, honorary gaffer 2022
I don't understand what hot character designs have to do with execs being sex pests

Go watch the video of the Blizzard panel and the woman asking a VERY anodyne question and the response of the panel. Then note who is on the panel.

. . .this stuff isn't necessarily going hand in hand (for example, VANILLAWARE just likes the jiggling), but it isn't difficult to locate examples of where it is.
 

p_xavier

Authorized Fister
Women here in Brazil are very very jealous over other women. Is a very cultural thing here. Brazillian women have a huge reputation of being the most pretty over others countries, so they're very conceited and need attention. In this era of social media, women are now after likes/views, mostly from men.
The women in Brazil also have a reputation to have penises so it's worse.
 
I’ll make sure to wear a snow suit in the summer so no one thinks I’m being objectified.

Better make sure all the men in games wear shirts, wouldn’t want their muscles popping out and making me cum, or is it just women who need to cover up? Oh yeah, just us female sex objects, my bad.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
I’ll make sure to wear a snow suit in the summer so no one thinks I’m being objectified.
You could also work out until you look like man, that seems to be allowed, could probably even show the skin on your arms then, possibly even abs.
Just remember to never show up with a pretty face though! Too shameful.
 

Edgelord79

Gold Member
As long as women in the real world continue to enjoy wearing things that compliment their physical attributes, couldn't care less about how they are portrayed in video games.
 

Bragr

Member
The author of the article's tone is wildly sanctimonious, however -



Literally linked to an article where a woman asked a valid question at a Blizzard panel and was heckled by the crowd and the panel. Can easily argue that the author of the article conveniently stepped over numerous examples of female character designs that don't match their thesis and are popular (but still "have it goin' on. . ." in the traditional beauty standard sense) but that doesn't mean there AREN'T prevalent examples of this in gaming.
Oh, there are many examples of this, it's not wrong to be critical towards female portrayal, there have been plenty of women that are there just to be the sex symbols and dumb sideline bitches.

But a common failure among idiots and ignorant fools is to slap everything into categories.

There are times where women are portrayed with little clothes simply for arousal, but there are also times where they are designed with little clothes to look badass. Someone he mentioned fits this perfectly, Bayonetta. She's the epitome of sexual innuendo, but not because it feeds horny gamers, but because she's a fucking witch, that doesn't give a shit and she thinks it's cool, which it is.

And this Bloomberg guy can't see the difference between this sort of stuff, he finds every sexual female insulting.
 
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Lysandros

Member
I really hate how sexual harassment is perpetrated predominantly by men. I'd love for some ladies to actually hound my sorry ass. Would be fucking sweet.
So you find sexual harrassment 'sweet' huh... Great for you i guess. Meanwhile it's very destructive for most people regardless of the sex. So congratulations for your strenght of character, high self esteem and empathy.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Ironically he says:



'I don't want or need to grow up. Grow up.'
Time to grow up? You mean like the Hollywood sexualization, Porn Industry, and all those love novels women read? How many shades of grey until we're mature enough?

Fucking goofy ass provocateurs.
Oh, there are many examples of this, it's not wrong to be critical towards female portrayal, there have been plenty of women that are there just to be the sex symbols and dumb sideline bitches.

But a common failure among idiots and ignorant fools is to slap everything into categories.

There are times where women are portrayed with little clothes simply for arousal, but there are also times where they are designed with little clothes to look badass. Someone he mentioned fits this perfectly, Bayonetta. She's the epitome of sexual innuendo, but not because it feeds horny gamers, but because she's a fucking witch, that doesn't give a shit and she thinks it's cool, which it is.

And this Bloomberg guy can't see the difference between this sort of stuff, he finds every sexual female insulting.
Because he's a closet pervert. With tiny skeletons, probably.
 
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Bragr

Member
In Sweden where I’m from womens wages are lower then mens even if they do the exakt same work. Very strange and apperently very hard to change.
Do you have any evidence of this?

In Norway, they recently did a big study towards this and it was proven that almost all of these claims were false, across the board, women were paid just as much as men in the same positions in the same workplace. Now, it may be different in Sweden, but most people just say stuff like this without looking into it.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Do you have any evidence of this?

In Norway, they recently did a big study towards this and it was proven that almost all of these claims were false, across the board, women were paid just as much as men in the same positions in the same workplace. Now, it may be different in Sweden, but most people just say stuff like this without looking into it.
Sweden, the land where they hire only women since they're paid less.
Jean Harlow Lol GIF by Maudit

Girly men, stay home and make them sandwiches.
 
I think the rampant microtransactions, which are evolving into NFTs, are a much bigger problem for video games. You do you, though.
 

mrBandoza

Neo Member
Do you have any evidence of this?

In Norway, they recently did a big study towards this and it was proven that almost all of these claims were false, across the board, women were paid just as much as men in the same positions in the same workplace. Now, it may be different in Sweden, but most people just say stuff like this without looking into it.
Yes from SCB. If you come from Norway I trust you can read and understand Swedish: https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/...ildning-jobb-och-pengar/medelloner-i-sverige/

It differs from Norway then and I’m glad to hear you have come further in these matters than us.

In Sweden we have a average wage difference between men and women of 10% if you look across all proffessions but as you said some proffessions have lower pay because women works there like nursing and cleaning jobs.

If you look within the same proffesions there is a lower difference but still 5% in favor to men. This difference is hard to explain other than with gender difference.

Keep in mind these are statistics with broad strokes so if you were to look at just 1 specific workplace you could find both workplaces with higher salary for men or women.
 

mrBandoza

Neo Member
Where in Sweden are butch muscular women realistic? Where I live the women are absolutely gorgeous and feminine and aren’t afraid to show off any curves if they have it, if anything they show too much and it’s amazing I haven’t turned cross-eyed yet.
Well everywhere really. In Sweden women come in all sizes and forms. I’d like to go where you live with only gorgeus fantastic well trimmed women. I think that; either you are lying or are that you are the kind of person who only see the beauty in women which is a very nice trait and I salut you for it.
 

Bragr

Member
Yes from SCB. If you come from Norway I trust you can read and understand Swedish: https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/...ildning-jobb-och-pengar/medelloner-i-sverige/

It differs from Norway then and I’m glad to hear you have come further in these matters than us.

In Sweden we have a average wage difference between men and women of 10% if you look across all proffessions but as you said some proffessions have lower pay because women works there like nursing and cleaning jobs.

If you look within the same proffesions there is a lower difference but still 5% in favor to men. This difference is hard to explain other than with gender difference.

Keep in mind these are statistics with broad strokes so if you were to look at just 1 specific workplace you could find both workplaces with higher salary for men or women.
Generally, this is a very broad paper on wages based on position within a sector and education, rather than figuring out if the same jobs pay the same between the genders.

For example, if you have a high-paying job within LIDL, and a high-paying job with IKEA, the paper doesn't take into account that IKEA and LIDL offer different payment opportunities. So what happens is that they compare all high-paying jobs within a given sector, but they don't actually go into each individual firm and check if the men and women earn the same if they have the same job within the same firm.

So if high-paying positions within LIDL earn more than high-paying positions with IKEA, and LIDL has more men hired, then it's gonna show up as men earning more, but that has more to do with wages within a given company rather than a difference in pay gaps between the sexes.

This 5% difference might mean that women get paid less, but it might not, it's unknown until they research on a company basis. That is what the research in Norway tried to figure out, they went into companies and compared the same jobs within the same companies, and found that it wasn't much difference at all.

I might be completely wrong and might be missing something here, I'm no expert on this, but this is what I took from this.
 
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