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[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Very true, especially for the European market where PS5 is starting to lag behind PS4's lifetime sales. Casual gamers need incentives to upgrade from their old PS4s, and reducing the MSRP is a good way to do that, along with having quality software ofc.

I understand that the BOM is likely still high, so it may not be favorable for Sony to permanently cut the PS5 price (they've been opting for promotional pricing instead). However, they will need to take action to get more hardware into the hands of consumers. I suppose the rumored PS5 Pro might also help with moving more HW later this year, so we'll have to wait and see on that.

I think the PS5 Pro has an uphill battle (slightly), because there aren't the market factors to drive it the way there were for PS4 Pro. For example, there is no 4K TV boom, and while the PSVR1 had commercial promise (and thus contributed to PS4 Pro sales a decent bit), the PSVR2 basically feels DOA commercially, most of its future tied to whatever happens with it on PC to keep enthusiast interest humming along.

Additionally, the PS4 Pro came out at a relatively "cheap" price of $399; the PS5 Pro will probably be at least $499, maybe even more. There were also a good amount of current-gen only games around last gen by the time PS4 Pro came out; meanwhile, this gen's been slow to ditch 8th-gen hardware and many of the biggest GAAS titles are still releasing on PS4, and play perfectly fine there.

Also, and I have to keep mentioning this....Sony still had genuine exclusives to further drive PS4 Pro as the best place to play 1P games; the perception that there were going to be PC ports later didn't exist at the time, so you had many years where the best place to play 1P games (and a lot of 3P games) at a technical level really WAS the PS4 Pro. PS5 Pro won't be able to claim that for a lot of 3P games, and for 1P games, maybe only for a year or two before what seems an inevitable PC (Steam) port.

Personally, I feel if things stay as-is, PS5 Pro'll probably tap out at 10-15 million lifetime. PS4 Pro did 20 million IIRC; it's gonna be hard for PS5 Pro to match that.

 

[DenchDeckard]

This could be a rough year for everyone. Sony needs to generate some excitement and fast. A price drop will help massively and potentially reduce them slipping even further from the total PS4 number.

 

[Skifi28]

Common sense is admitting the fact that most people own a decent gaming PC. Calling me out are not facts when this forum is known for its extreme console fanboys. I never retracted from anything. Reading is hard and it seems some of you clearly have an agenda and were severely triggered by facts. Peace out guy.

Yes, poor you just came here in good faith to post PC facts and the bad console fanboys just pilled on to you for not being able to handle the truth. At least I'm glad we've established that a "decent gaming PC" is "any potato" that can handle indie games. Consoles must be god-tier hardware in your eyes, I imagine you're a big fan.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Now you're on about indy titles and potatoes. Id call that a back track.

What? My original statement was about owning a decent gaming PC. I explained that people who can game on their laptops or potatoe PC's are considered as decent gaming PC's. I never backtracked on anything. I literally expanded on what you seem to keep being angry about. Yes, a laptop with integraded gpu can be considered a decent PC.

Id define a decent gaming PC as one that has dedicated graphics.

I dont. If they can play most games on PC, i'd say they have a decent PC. Integrated stuff have evolved since 20 years ago.

 

[clarky]

What? My original statement was about owning a decent gaming PC. I explained that people who can game on their laptops or potatoe PC's are considered as decent gaming PC's. I never backtracked on anything. I literally expanded on what you seem to keep being angry about. Yes, a laptop with integraded gpu can be considered a decent PC.



I dont. If they can play most games on PC, i'd say they have a decent PC. Integrated stuff have evolved since 20 years ago.

Angry? im just correcting your nonsense.

If you think the majority of laptops and desktop sold in the world are decent gaming PC's then you right i suppose. lol.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Angry? im just correcting your nonsense.

No you're not. We both know what this is truly about. But I'll leave it be.

 

[mayham2199]

This could be a rough year for everyone. Sony needs to generate some excitement and fast. A price drop will help massively and potentially reduce them slipping even further from the total PS4 number.

So many people are still active on their PS4 does Sony even need to worry about being slightly behind? Eventually these people will upgrade to the PS5/Pro or maybe just outright wait for the PS6. I think Sony has shifted their view to MAU's because they recognize just having people in the ecosystem should be their focus especially when you have GAAS games being the top played games all still work just fine on past gen machines.

 

[Skifi28]

I explained that people who can game on their laptops or potatoe PC's are considered as decent gaming PC's.

The leap of logic is a thing to behold. "Any car with an engine is a sports car" because now my original argument somewhat makes sense, at least to me.

 

[The Cockatrice]

The leap of logic is a thing to behold. "Any car with an engine is a sports car" because now my original argument somewhat makes sense, at least to me.

Your logic example isnt even near mine but kay.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

It's likely they overshipped last quarter, so couldn't ship as many this quarter. Plus it was a pretty weak quarter for everyone in terms of games.

I was thinking about this as well; just playing devil's advocate, there's the chance that SIE simply didn't ship that many systems last quarter. And maybe they did that because they overshipped the quarter prior. Very possible.

But I have to think a part of SIE still want to catch up to PS4's install base numbers, even if they've also said they're prioritizing profits now. So the gap between PS5 and PS4 increasing rather than shrinking, can't be a great look and that's hard to explain away no matter how you do it.

Remember that those 2.4M PS5 units they've reported are shipped units not sold to consumer. I think they've over-shipped last quarter in order to reach that hefty guidance of 23M PS5 or whatever it was (they failed in doing that anyway). The sold to consumer number for this fiscal quarter should be a bit higher than 2.4M imo.

Yeah, I think you and Woopah might be onto something with that. I think I'll hold off on any trepidation until we get the quarter's sold-through numbers; the shipments being low to account for over-shipping last quarter has some merit to it.

If the sold-through numbers for the quarter are looking spooky tho? Then we can start looking at things a bit differently.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Software sells hardware. Whats been Sony first-party’s big software to drive sales this year so far since Helldivers 2?

 

[Skifi28]

Your logic example isnt even near mine but kay.

I'd say it's identical. In your own fantasy land any house can be a mantion, any car can be a sports car and any PC can be a good gaming pc. Good for you, but when you bring these notions forward as facts and call out others for not agreeing then you just start sounding crazy.

 

[SlimySnake]

SlimySnake well it's a bit difficult to release exclusives when

-You only focus on AAA traditional games and AAA GAAS titles (both of which take many years, lots of money, and large teams to make)​

-Cancelled some of your biggest AAA GAAS titles in the works (TLOU2 Factions, Insomniac's Spiderman GAAS title, etc.)​

-Don't have very many internal AA games in production (Astro Bot is one of the very few)​

-Don't have very many AA games in production through partnership with 3P (LEGO Horizon is one of the very few)​

-Have kind of created the perception that your "exclusive" console games are just timed exclusives until they get ported to PC​

-Have a growing generation of gamers who don't have FOMO for games aside of COD, Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft etc. so they can wait for price cuts & PC ports​

So yeah, SIE have created a lot of little problems for themselves over the years, though I also acknowledge COVID lockdowns did screw up some of the dev pipeline (as it did for all companies), and that's not something to be held against SIE. In fact I'd say SIE handled the pandemic era better than most when it came to releasing big games (even if many were cross-gen).

All those are indeed self inflicted wounds but im not going to blame covid for games like Horizon 2, GOW Ragnorak and GT7 all of which were greenlit in 2017-2018 as last gen games before covid was a thing. Avatar, Star Wars outlaws, Starfield and many other games started development in 2017-2018 and were next gen only.

If Horizon, GOW and GT7 had been true genre defining next gen titles instead of samey ass sequels, the PS fanbase would not be so down on their output this gen.

 

[AncientOrigin]

When Pro is releasing the base will get a price cut.100 less it’s gone be.Or they wait with price cut after GTA6.Because they know everyone will want an console with that game.

 

[Fake]

I think the idea is that when PS5 Pro releases, Sony would drop the base PS5 price as they need to have a decent gap between regular and Pro and can’t really price Peo sky high.

So hypothetically if they release Pro at $599, they could have PS5 Disk at $400 and PS5 Slim for $350.

They have to drop the price of regular PS5 and try to convert folks still sitting on their PS4 and Xbox One.

My point is that people need to make their damn mind about what they want.

Just split words without context never help any argument. 'Can't wait for PS5pro'.

They want to buy a PS5pro or they want a PS5pro to launch for the base PS5 get a price drop?

 

[Rockman33]

It’s almost like everyone commenting is a paid Sony account gaslighting the facts of the article.

 

[NonPhixion]

You can tell that rayray doesn’t know what the words “Most” and “Decent” mean. This positive Sony news really chapped their asshole.

 

[clarky]

No you're not. We both know what this is truly about. But I'll leave it be.

That's right it was about triggering us Sony fan boys wasn't it? Until it wasn't.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I'd say it's identical. In your own fantasy land any house can be a mantion, any car can be a sports car and any PC can be a good gaming pc. Good for you, but when you bring these notions forward as facts and call out others for not agreeing then you just start sounding crazy.

No, thats not my logic but keep being ignorant. Fact is even if i didnt say the word decent you and the rest wouldve had the exact same replies, and thats another fact. The word decent is not what triggered any of yall here. Mods can ban if they want but i never bactrack from my statements and u can live in ur own bubble world. Cool? Cool.

 

[The Cockatrice]

That's right it was about triggering us Sony fan boys wasn't it? Until it wasn't.

No. That was the aftermath. The point was, were not getting exclusives and it sucks but youall saw the words pc and majority and the rage started.

 

[clarky]

No. That was the aftermath. The point was, were not getting exclusives and it sucks but youall saw the words pc and majority and the rage started.

Rage and anger get thrown around alot i've noticed on this board when people are dead wrong.

This is going nowhere. Enjoy playing your games on your decent gaming potato.

 

[Fabieter]

Giving up on exclusives on a consoles is what it brings you failure. Next generation is gonna be even worse. I know people don't wanna hear it but it's a fact.

 

[Skifi28]

No, thats not my logic but keep being ignorant. Fact is even if i didnt say the word decent you and the rest wouldve had the exact same replies, and thats another fact. The word decent is not what triggered any of yall here. Mods can ban if they want but i never bactrack from my statements and u can live in ur own bubble world. Cool? Cool.

So now we're talking about a hypothetical situation where people would have pilled on you even if you didn't say stupid things? Do you have some sort of victim complex and you see everything as a conspiracy against you? Anyway I'm out as this is completely pointless.

 

[drganon]

No. That was the aftermath. The point was, were not getting exclusives and it sucks but youall saw the words pc and majority and the rage started.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

All those are indeed self inflicted wounds but im not going to blame covid for games like Horizon 2, GOW Ragnorak and GT7 all of which were greenlit in 2017-2018 as last gen games before covid was a thing. Avatar, Star Wars outlaws, Starfield and many other games started development in 2017-2018 and were next gen only.

If Horizon, GOW and GT7 had been true genre defining next gen titles instead of samey ass sequels, the PS fanbase would not be so down on their output this gen.

Well, in what ways would those games had been genre-defining aside from higher production values? Maybe there's a glimpse of it with Horizon in the Burning Shores DLC (more stuff like the final boss fight), but GT7? It's heads-and-shoulders ahead of the new Forza Motorsport where it counts despite being cross-gen. GOW Ragnarok feels a lot like an expansion to 2018; I dunno if the team were aiming for something totally new tho I'd agree that they probably should have.

SIE have the claim that GT7, Ragnarok, HFW etc. were made cross-gen late due to the pandemic, but I think that claim can at least be partially refuted. Like with HFW for example, I think it that were a PS5 title natively and then got a PS4 version late in dev, the PS5 version would've had more of the functionality and additions, and boss battle scale, of Burning Shores. Instead it was a prettier and better-running build of the PS4 version.

But yeah, I think I might have "jumped the gun" a bit on speculating into the sales numbers. The 2.4 million is shipped; Woopah and Thick Thighs Save Lives both mentioned that shipments may've been purposefully lower this quarter to offset over-shipping last quarter. I think that might have some merit. Plus the shipped number may not correlate to sold-through. I don't think SIE will give sold-through for the quarter but it should be easy to figure out from the lifetime sales reported between quarters.

If the sold-through number is similar to the shipped number (or even lower), then I think SIE have a big problem on their hands to solve. But, I guess it's worth putting ideas out there early as to probable causes if in case a suboptimal scenario plays out with the sold-through numbers.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Rage and anger get thrown around alot i've noticed on this board when people are dead wrong.

This is going nowhere. Enjoy playing your games on your decent gaming potato.

Based on the insults i got yeah id say angry was adequate.

So now we're talking about a hypothetical situation where people would have pilled on you even if you didn't say stupid things? Do you have some sort of victim complex and you see everything as a conspiracy against you? Anyway I'm out as this is completely pointless.

Everything you said was nonsense. Way to twist my own words. Your delusions are oustanding ill give u that.

 

[Fbh]

PS5 needs a price cut.
At this point in the lifecycle of every other Playstation we had seen one or even multiple considerable price cuts. This gen we've only seen a price increase in some regions.
If you haven't picked up a Ps5 for $499 in the last 4 years I don't see why you would now, specially with no truly exciting release on the horizon until GTA6. If anything the console gets less appealing as time goes on, $499 for a brand new console back in 2020 (and early 21) was more exciting than $499 for a 4 years old device.

This is just anecdotal but I have several more casual friends who are still on Ps4 and when I ask them why they haven't upgraded it's always a mix of "still too expensive" and "most games I play and most games I'm looking forward to are still coming to Ps4"

 

[Woopah]

Well, in what ways would those games had been genre-defining aside from higher production values? Maybe there's a glimpse of it with Horizon in the Burning Shores DLC (more stuff like the final boss fight), but GT7? It's heads-and-shoulders ahead of the new Forza Motorsport where it counts despite being cross-gen. GOW Ragnarok feels a lot like an expansion to 2018; I dunno if the team were aiming for something totally new tho I'd agree that they probably should have.

SIE have the claim that GT7, Ragnarok, HFW etc. were made cross-gen late due to the pandemic, but I think that claim can at least be partially refuted. Like with HFW for example, I think it that were a PS5 title natively and then got a PS4 version late in dev, the PS5 version would've had more of the functionality and additions, and boss battle scale, of Burning Shores. Instead it was a prettier and better-running build of the PS4 version.

But yeah, I think I might have "jumped the gun" a bit on speculating into the sales numbers. The 2.4 million is shipped; Woopah and Thick Thighs Save Lives both mentioned that shipments may've been purposefully lower this quarter to offset over-shipping last quarter. I think that might have some merit. Plus the shipped number may not correlate to sold-through. I don't think SIE will give sold-through for the quarter but it should be easy to figure out from the lifetime sales reported between quarters.

If the sold-through number is similar to the shipped number (or even lower), then I think SIE have a big problem on their hands to solve. But, I guess it's worth putting ideas out there early as to probable causes if in case a suboptimal scenario plays out with the sold-through numbers.

Aside from the shipment detail, the main problems for Sony is the lack of strong games this quarter and the high price in Europe. The next two quarters should see a stronger performance.

 

[twilo99]

For everyone who is calling for a price cut you will love the PS5 “pro” price point

 

[ProtoByte]

I don't think Sony really has a choice. This is the potential crossing of the streams for the first time since the Wii era. Sony went all in on AAA high budget graphics which outspent what Nintendo was capable of, and opened up this huge gap. Now, those games take so long to make they are coming out once a generation per team, safe and less inventive and loaded with monetization. Meanwhile, Nintendo has a pipeline of games that will remain faster to develop, easier to release rapidly, packaged likely in another hybrid console that appeals to younger gamers and with AI-uprez could be within spitting distance of a Series S.

Lmao, what? Are we still doing the Nintendo productivity dance? On what planet are they releasing games "faster"? And as if they don't have samey ass sequels to a much worse degree at that. Have you seen Metroid Prime 4 (announced in 2017 btw)?

PS5 needs a price cut.
At this point in the lifecycle of every other Playstation we had seen one or even multiple considerable price cuts. This gen we've only seen a price increase in some regions.
If you haven't picked up a Ps5 for $499 in the last 4 years I don't see why you would now, specially with no truly exciting release on the horizon until GTA6. If anything the console gets less appealing as time goes on, $499 for a brand new console back in 2020 (and early 21) was more exciting than $499 for a 4 years old device.

This is just anecdotal but I have several more casual friends who are still on Ps4 and when I ask them they they haven't upgraded it's always a mix of "still too expensive" and "most games I play and most games I'm looking forward to are still coming to Ps4"

Too bad. Sony's not going to take 9-10 figures in losses and the economy's slowing down if not on its way to a significant crash. Gen will last until 2028 earliest, they don't need 100 million by next year.

The only practical thing to do is start to announce some new goddamn games. Indie/3rd party dumping streams, Death Stranding 2 self indulgence reels and Wolverine leaks are not creating excitement around the brand.

 

[mayham2199]

This is just anecdotal but I have several more casual friends who are still on Ps4 and when I ask them why they haven't upgraded it's always a mix of "still too expensive" and "most games I play and most games I'm looking forward to are still coming to Ps4"

I think that's the biggest point and why the PS5 doesn't need a price cut. Your friends are still on PS4 and buying PS4 games. Sony is fine with that arrangement. Eventually your friends will upgrade and Sony is ok with waiting. It's why they've shifted to caring more about MAUs. With all these GAAS games staying on PS4 this is going to be the norm for consoles.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The most remarkable thing about the PS5 is how well it has sold, despite the fact that it has not had a price drop and is still at $500 and $449/$399.

PS5 Pro needs to be $500. PS5 disc needs to be $400 and PS5 discless needs to be $350.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It’s almost like everyone commenting is a paid Sony account gaslighting the facts of the article.

As if I need to get paid to gaslight you nerds

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I thought Mr Reasonable was a Xbox guy and clarky was a PC guy. I have a shit memory though so I could be confusing them with someone else.

I've got all the consoles, but I do indeed prefer Xbox.

 

[AmuroChan]

PS5 Pro needs to be $500. PS5 disc needs to be $400 and PS5 discless needs to be $350.

Sony would need to be willing to sell the Pro at a loss to price it at $500, given the inflationary period the global economy is in right now. $500 in 2020 equates to over $600 in 2024.

 

[Fbh]

I think that's the biggest point and why the PS5 doesn't need a price cut. Your friends are still on PS4 and buying PS4 games. Sony is fine with that arrangement. Eventually your friends will upgrade and Sony is ok with waiting. It's why they've shifted to caring more about MAUs. With all these GAAS games staying on PS4 this is going to be the norm for consoles.

Yeah I guess that is true.
Though now that Sony finally seems to have moved on from their cross gen approach I do think they'll have more of an incentive to want to bring people over to Ps5.
That said, I would imagine part of why they might not be too stressed is that they know Ps5 will sell gangbusters next year when GTA comes out.

 

[mayham2199]

Yeah I guess that is true.
Though now that Sony finally seems to have moved on from their cross gen approach I do think they'll have more of an incentive to want to bring people over to Ps5.
That said, I would imagine part of why they might not be too stressed is that they know Ps5 will sell gangbusters next year when GTA comes out.

Yes I think their first party software sales is where they will have the most issue with so many people staying on last gen. I wouldn't be surprised if starting with PS6 they abandon the "we believe in generations talks" and stick with cross platform for much much longer.

 

[TGO]

PS5 Pro rumours & porting peoples incentive to buy the PS5 will do that.

 

[Bernardougf]

Looks like I triggered the obssesed Sony fanboys. Works like a charm everytime.

 

[Three]

Software sells hardware. Whats been Sony first-party’s big software to drive sales this year so far since Helldivers 2?

There has been FF Rebirth, Stellar Blade, and Rise of the Ronin in addition to Helldivers 2. People are just making excuses at this point trying to make it look unattractive.

 

[The Cockatrice]

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Rage and anger get thrown around alot i've noticed on this board when people are dead wrong.

This is going nowhere. Enjoy playing your games on your decent gaming potato.

No sense in arguing with certain ones on this board as they seem to be trolls who are not happy in life and are 100% intent on trying to make others miserable

 

[Imtjnotu]

This is some of the best trolling Gaf has seen in years

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

There has been FF Rebirth, Stellar Blade, and Rise of the Ronin in addition to Helldivers 2. People are just making excuses at this point trying to make it look unattractive.

None of those are first-party games, for starters, except for Helldivers, which was more like a second-party title.

Additionally, FF Rebirth disappointed commercially. RoR was mid and wasn't well-received. And Stellar Blade sold ok but it's not a system seller. So, you can spin things any way you want, but I would just suggest that the decline of the hardware sales are predictable and expected, due to the lack of major recent first-party titles that drive people to want to buy the hardware.

 

[Gaiff]

Looks like I triggered the obssesed Sony fanboys. Works like a charm everytime.

 

[The Cockatrice]

 

[Clear]

Nothingburger.

There was brief "bubble" of releases as stuff delayed/held over by Covid hit the market, and now that's over its gone very quiet. Hence sales are down.

 

[Fake]

There has been FF Rebirth, Stellar Blade, and Rise of the Ronin in addition to Helldivers 2. People are just making excuses at this point trying to make it look unattractive.

Third parties. And you are not even comparing the PS4 game age in the same period.

From first party, what do we got?

 

[Rockman33]

As if I need to get paid to gaslight you nerds

Always a honor to get quoted by you

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

Third parties. And you are not even comparing the PS4 game age in the same period.

From first party, what do we got?

Wait, so when a company owns the IP, funds the game or both, that's not considered first party?