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Boss of EA Ireland 'fired after colleague on conference call made sexual harassment complaint'

Closer

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The real world. Somewhere with untapped potential. Where no woman have set foot before. There were legends about this fabled world lost forgotten in the sands of time. Only the worthy still finds the door to these magical lands of pure dick jokes and farts.
 

autoduelist

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Aug 30, 2014
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Depends on who you say it to. it really does come down to the opinion of the offended.

Nonsense. There's no way to know what will offend someone. We cannot enforce a societal rule which is so entirely fluid and undefined. It no longer is a rule, but rather a baseball bat to be swung at anyone we don't like.

For society to function properly, we must be able to at least generally understand what the rules are. However, there's no way for you to know what will offend me. Hell, I'm sure I could say "have a nice day" in a way that would offend somebody. I can't know what you are sensitive about. I can't know what your expectations are. I am not a mind-reader and neither are you. You may be terribly offended if I simply say that the very concept of microaggressions is fucking ridiculous and utterly illogical.

you can't think nor speak without risking offending someone. Any conflict might offend, and conflict is core to discussion. Ultimately, I can control what comes out of my mouth but there's no way for me to control how you interpret it.

In this particular case, the man used a common phrase. Sure, it's arguably vulgar, but no that vulgar... id bet that the vast majority of people have likely heard it, at least in America and probably the UK. It's not harassment. I'd argue that it's barely even vulgar, and would be generally considered 'straight talk', that is, no mincing of words, getting down to brass tacks.

In fact I'd argue it's most often used to insult men. It and it's variants are sometimes used to belittle two alpha males arguing, as in ' would the two of you stop measuring your dicks".

The level of fragility our society is currently aiding and abetting is mind-boggling. This level of policing words and thought will not end well.
 
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ruvikx

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
1,812
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It's a colloquialism isn't it? "Not a dick measuring contest" etc. It's a pretty common phrase.

I'm curious to know whether the woman is a native Anglo speaker or not. It's still no excuse, but if English isn't her mother tongue, it "might" explain why she was quick to pull the #metoo trigger. It reminds me of an anecdote from the making of Aliens back in 1986 (from the special edition blu-ray), when Jenette Goldstein (who played Vasquez) believed a crew member was being sexist because he called her "love", without realizing it was a very typical thing for a Londoner to say at the time (it was filmed in England).

Globalist wokeness & #metoo'ism predictably collapses when lost in translation happens & people don't understand colloquialisms. Edit: I won't ever forget the fact some illiterate retards @ Bioware (an EA company) also believed "my face is tired" is actually something people say in English... & put it in Mass Effect Andromeda. So we already know the English language isn't the forte of some of these idiots.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,940
12,677
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Nonsense. There's no way to know what will offend someone. We cannot enforce a societal rule which is so entirely fluid and undefined. It no longer is a rule, but rather a baseball bat to be swung at anyone we don't like.

For society to function properly, we must be able to at least generally understand what the rules are. However, there's no way for you to know what will offend me. Hell, I'm sure I could say "have a nice day" in a way that would offend somebody. I can't know what you are sensitive about. I can't know what your expectations are. I am not a mind-reader and neither are you. You may be terribly offended if I simply say that the very concept of microaggressions is fucking ridiculous and utterly illogical.

you can't think nor speak without risking offending someone. Any conflict might offend, and conflict is core to discussion. Ultimately, I can control what comes out of my mouth but there's no way for me to control how you interpret it.

In this particular case, the man used a common phrase. Sure, it's arguably vulgar, but no that vulgar... id bet that the vast majority of people have likely heard it, at least in America and probably the UK. It's not harassment. I'd argue that it's barely even vulgar, and would be generally considered 'straight talk', that is, no mincing of words, getting down to brass tacks.

In fact I'd argue it's most often used to insult men. It and it's variants are sometimes used to belittle two alpha males arguing, as in ' would the two of you stop measuring your dicks".

The level of fragility our society is currently aiding and abetting is mind-boggling. This level of policing words and thought will not end well.
Very very well said.
 

Virex

Abrasive, but well-meaning
Jan 26, 2018
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Please refrain from Suffragette era scare mongering and low grade comments such as the last two sentences of this post. It should be clear a line was stepped over there between the reasoned and unreasoanable...
The #metoo movement and all this entitled bullshit that western women are creating isn't going to end very well. And women will end up miserable and men will not want to be even close to any women anymore. It's bullshit like this that does an injustice to women that have really been raped, harassed etc. Women should have never been given any form of power. Women destroy societies.
 

LuvOfThaGame

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Feb 29, 2016
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In a way.
“These men fear what they cannot control.”
"Men have to step up, she said, and “not let fear be a barrier.”

While I am at an agreement that certain phrases and actions need to be understood, separate from that of accused sexual harassment. Is it really that difficult to police oneselfs' actions to not emasculate women in the workplace?
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
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May 30, 2004
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The #metoo movement and all this entitled bullshit that western women are creating isn't going to end very well. And women will end up miserable and men will not want to be even close to any women anymore. It's bullshit like this that does an injustice to women that have really been raped, harassed etc. Women should have never been given any form of power. Women destroy societies.

To the underlined, let's keep in mind that every one of these ridiculous social outcomes only happens because both men and women are complicit in it. Generally it's men jumping forth to do the actual deplatforming after a finger point, men doing the firing, men severing the business ties, even men making the wacky creative decisions (e.g. Battlefield V; I don't blame that guy's 13 year old daughter for asking some benign Fortnite question in his anecdote justifying his franchise-killing choices).

It's a team effort.
 

Mahadev

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Mar 5, 2007
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People who defend this shit understand that it's a reference to the expression dick measuring contest, right? How on earth is that harassment, am I taking crazy pills here? The expression isn't even inappropriate, in what kind of sanitized, hellish environment people aren't even allowed to use an informal phrase like dick measuring contest? What the hell is going on with American corporations nowadays, should everyone working for them act like a fucking robot now?


To the underlined, let's keep in mind that every one of these ridiculous social outcomes only happens because both men and women are complicit in it. Generally it's men jumping forth to do the actual deplatforming after a finger point, men doing the firing, men severing the business ties, even men making the wacky creative decisions (e.g. Battlefield V; I don't blame that guy's 13 year old daughter for asking some benign Fortnite question in his anecdote justifying his franchise-killing choices).

It's a team effort.

Exactly, this has nothing to do with women and more to do with a ridiculous ideology that is making everyone's life miserable. Yes admittedly more women than men have adopted it but that doesn't mean many women don't oppose it or won't be affected very negatively from it.
 
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Starfield

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Aug 13, 2015
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Hey its me I'm woman I feel harassed!!

What a load of bullshit. There must be more to the story than just this one single line because ade otherwise I'd just can't comprehend in what kind of a fucked up world we live right now.
 
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Virex

Abrasive, but well-meaning
Jan 26, 2018
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To the underlined, let's keep in mind that every one of these ridiculous social outcomes only happens because both men and women are complicit in it. Generally it's men jumping forth to do the actual deplatforming after a finger point, men doing the firing, men severing the business ties, even men making the wacky creative decisions (e.g. Battlefield V; I don't blame that guy's 13 year old daughter for asking some benign Fortnite question in his anecdote justifying his franchise-killing choices).

It's a team effort.
That very true. But look at the shit they tried to pull with you. And you stood your ground and didn't start apologising like so many.
 

Closer

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Hey its me I'm woman I feel harassed!!

What a load of bullshit. There must be more to the story than just this one single line because ade otherwise I'd just can't comprehend in what kind of a fucked up world we live right now.

Hello, it's me the judge. Tell me where you work and what employee harassed you.

We live in a fucked up world where people think they can say whatever they want whenever they want. A.K.A. Not the Real World.
 
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EviLore

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May 30, 2004
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In a way.
“These men fear what they cannot control.”
"Men have to step up, she said, and “not let fear be a barrier.”

While I am at an agreement that certain phrases and actions need to be understood, separate from that of accused sexual harassment. Is it really that difficult to police oneselfs' actions to not emasculate women in the workplace?

It can be if:

1) The social goalposts shift rapidly, and you're held in contempt retroactively for previous statements or behavior under a different set of social rules, without any acknowledgement of the context it existed in. Tweets.

2) We dispense with the rule of law and move to self-righteously impart mob justice on reaction to unsupported solitary testimony about interpersonal events from years ago. People lie. People misremember. People have warped, subjective, self-centered perceptions of events. People are influenced. People have agendas. The modern justice system has been moving farther and farther away from witness testimony as a credible tool for prosecution and scientifically establishing how fallible and dangerous it is to convict on, instead relying on evidence-based approaches (DNA, cell phones, forensics etc.). Meanwhile socially we're rapidly moving in the opposite direction. Someone says so? Okay end their career and break out the social Scarlet Letter, brand them a Nazi Rapist untouchable and move on to the next one.
 

Psykodad

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Apr 9, 2018
4,143
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Expecting people to be professional in a corporate environment is not crying. Just like this bozo wouldn't talk like that to his boss he shouldn't talk like that to those under him as those under him also would be expected to just take it but not dish it out towards him. Being somebody's boss or higher up in the hierarchy ladder than him/her isn't a free pass to be a total jerk.

I don't care if it's harassment or not, that's for the court to figure out, his firing was EA's right and may still be a good thing for everyone around him, men and women, if that's how he saw fit to address them.
No offense, but get over yourself.

Anyone who feels offended by such a remark has some serious social-emotional issues.

Idc how "unproffesional" some people may think it is, it has more to do with sticks and asses.

Then again, I'm Dutch and over here we're far more insensitive to such things than in places like the States.
 
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Closer

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No offense, but get over yourself.

Anyone who feels offended by such a remark has some serious social-emotional issues.

Idc how "unproffesional" some people may think it is, it has more to do with sticks and asses.

Then again, I'm Dutch and over here we're far more insensitive to such things than in places like the States.

I mean, EA doesn't care about what you think, how "unprofessional" it is or how you think it has to do with sticks and asses.
You work for a company, you work under their guidelines.
 

Velius

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Dec 22, 2016
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You can’t say that to a woman : pulling that thing out.

Also how can the woman pull hers out? What was he implying?

That’s harassment.
That's not harassment. There's no threat, there's no request and no implication of any intent to do either.

Harassment does not mean "someone felt bad or uncomfortable."
 

Psykodad

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Apr 9, 2018
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I mean, EA doesn't care about what you think, how "unprofessional" it is or how you think it has to do with sticks and asses.
You work for a company, you work under their guidelines.
Same principles apply, even in companies.
It's probably a cultural thing, Americans seem to whine about every petty thing you can think of.
 

Velius

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Dec 22, 2016
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No offense, but get over yourself.

Anyone who feels offended by such a remark has some serious social-emotional issues.

Idc how "unproffesional" some people may think it is, it has more to do with sticks and asses.

Then again, I'm Dutch and over here we're far more insensitive to such things than in places like the States.

Dude I'm moving over to where you are.

Tons of people have serious social-emotional issues. I am known at work for being very aggressive in my profession, as well as very clear, blunt and to the point in my interactions. I've never used any kind of comment involving a dick, but I've had numerous people report me to HR, mostly women, who felt "uneasy" with me. They didn't feel in danger, they didn't feel like I was ever singling them out or trying to harm their careers and they hopefully didn't ever feel like I was attracted to them because I sure as hell wasn't, so nothing ever came of it. I've never been called into an HR meeting, not once. Because I'm not harassing them. When they get in my way and fuck things up I tell them how they should be doing it and how they're actually making things worse. They start crying because "muh patriarchy" and they're too stupid to actually converse and meet someone on an intellectual plane, so they do what they've been raised to do: they go tell someone else and hope they're bigger and stronger than the one who's "oppressing them."

It is so textbook, so predictable you can set your clock to it. When some snowflake says "Be professional" what they're actually asking you is to be unprofessional. They're asking you to be sensitive to their feelings and make them feel good, rather than do the best job you can do. And that's why people like that will never be top-earning individuals in top-performance firms, and any entity that hires too many of those types will never be a top-performance firm.

You are absolutely correct-- it's a social-emotional problem and it's bad. Every time I hear those landwhales bitching and moaning about their lives while they fritter about on snapchat I realize that if anyone were to ever actually wage war on us we'd be done because we have so many spineless losers in this country (USA). And they, they'd be the loudest as they were marched through with hooks in their noses, but they'd also be the ones you know would be utterly incapable of doing anything about it.
 
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Closer

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Same principles apply, even in companies.
It's probably a cultural thing, Americans seem to whine about every petty thing you can think of.

The only principle a employee should think is the company's principle. That is if the employee wants to keep his job.
 

Dunki

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Oct 24, 2017
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Same principles apply, even in companies.
It's probably a cultural thing, Americans seem to whine about every petty thing you can think of.
The problem is that this can set new events of people who who accuse another male of sexual harassment and since meetoo companies have to follow their demand or they will get a really bad PR. Wee need to teach people that they can not do this shit any longer.

And you only can archive this by lawsuits against the people who cry wolf. I would sue this women not only for his sake but for the sake of every men in a working environment.
 

jdforge

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Jul 20, 2004
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He should not have been fired for this. There is no harassment. It’s another example of the knee jerk reaction to appease the female voice in the workplace. Where’s the equality? Some of the things I hear women saying are much, much, much worse than this.
 
Nov 23, 2018
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You just dismissed a large group of anonymous people in this thread, most of whom have not identified as male or female, on your own baseless assumptions about their gender composition. Social pressure on our users to identify themselves is not acceptable
You can’t say that to a woman : pulling that thing out.

Also how can the woman pull hers out? What was he implying?

That’s harassment.

As a matter of fact, I'm in this with you but I kinda find amusing to see you are experience the overwhelming experiencing to be told otherwise about it after the situation about the converstation over certaint anecdote told on Gaf favorite forum.

Not for nothing there are few women posting in this forum.
 
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Dunki

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Oct 24, 2017
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As a matter of fact, I'm in this with you but I kinda find amusing to see you are experience the overwhelming experiencing to be told otherwise about it after the situation about the converstation over certaint anecdote told on Gaf favorite forum.

Not for nothing there are few women posting in this forum.
Even era thinks in the vast majority that this is bullshit.

And if you feel harassed by opinions and words that are not sexual maybe you are the person with the problem. Was it unprofessional? Yes of course I think no one would argue about this. But to be fired for it as a sexual harassment claim is utterly ridiculous and in the end this shit will hurt women all over the world. You can be sure that men in higher positions will try to avoid hiring women when you even can get fired for this kind of stuff.

This women played the professional victim really good but in a society in which victim hood is celebrated it is not really surprising anymore.

Also note men did not step up to the top while crying at everything they felt uncomfortable with. They fought because trigger warning they had the balls to do it.
 
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Boss Mog

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All those guys saying they wanted to avoid working with women after #metoo don't seem so paranoid now...
 

Alexios

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No offense, but get over yourself.

Anyone who feels offended by such a remark has some serious social-emotional issues.

Idc how "unproffesional" some people may think it is, it has more to do with sticks and asses.

Then again, I'm Dutch and over here we're far more insensitive to such things than in places like the States.
No offense but get off your high horse of how you're so above getting offended by others' lack of respect, lol. Chances are most people here don't speak to their bosses like that or in general don't unless they happen to also be a boss and play the alpha male card trying to enforce dominance with such language in an environment others can't retaliate or even speak of their discomfort. I'm not in the States either, I merely expect common sense and respect out of everyone I have no personal relationship with, strangers as well as professionals, whether that's an office with co-workers, with people lower than me in the hierarchy or people higher than me or a random plumber or electrician I hired off the yellow pages. Most people seem aware of the same thing and don't drop f bombs and other offensive remarks out of the blue with no rhyme or reason. Whether I'm offended or not makes no difference whatsoever, I'm on GAF, I've read far worse obviously as one example, that doesn't mean shit in real life, face to face, in a professional relationship rather than people I hang out with for years and know what is and isn't acceptable by any one of them because that's what friends do, they know each other. Do you also write formal letters with such language there? Will I see such language in your top newspapers' news articles (not some shitty column)? When you get in a store does the salesman greet you with f bombs? Will I see such language in your government's or town hall's website (not the twitter of some random shitbag who happens to be a politician)? If not then people there also know that stuff is unprofessional and disrespectful regardless of what you want to claim here.
 
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Zog

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
5,117
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Nonsense. There's no way to know what will offend someone. We cannot enforce a societal rule which is so entirely fluid and undefined. It no longer is a rule, but rather a baseball bat to be swung at anyone we don't like.

For society to function properly, we must be able to at least generally understand what the rules are. However, there's no way for you to know what will offend me. Hell, I'm sure I could say "have a nice day" in a way that would offend somebody. I can't know what you are sensitive about. I can't know what your expectations are. I am not a mind-reader and neither are you. You may be terribly offended if I simply say that the very concept of microaggressions is fucking ridiculous and utterly illogical.

you can't think nor speak without risking offending someone. Any conflict might offend, and conflict is core to discussion. Ultimately, I can control what comes out of my mouth but there's no way for me to control how you interpret it.

In this particular case, the man used a common phrase. Sure, it's arguably vulgar, but no that vulgar... id bet that the vast majority of people have likely heard it, at least in America and probably the UK. It's not harassment. I'd argue that it's barely even vulgar, and would be generally considered 'straight talk', that is, no mincing of words, getting down to brass tacks.

In fact I'd argue it's most often used to insult men. It and it's variants are sometimes used to belittle two alpha males arguing, as in ' would the two of you stop measuring your dicks".

The level of fragility our society is currently aiding and abetting is mind-boggling. This level of policing words and thought will not end well.

We agree, I just didn't say it as well as you did.
 

JCK75

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Apr 19, 2018
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While it's crass as hell, certainly worth getting a walk down the hall and a good talking to..
that's not harassment in the slightest, and if we keep going down this road where we can't actually bother identifying real harassment and just punish people for horribly subjective takes such as this you're just going to do nothing but harm to your movement.
 

Zog

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Oct 24, 2017
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While it's crass as hell, certainly worth getting a walk down the hall and a good talking to..
that's not harassment in the slightest, and if we keep going down this road where we can't actually bother identifying real harassment and just punish people for horribly subjective takes such as this you're just going to do nothing but harm to your movement.


That bridge has already been crossed and we are well on our way to segregation.
 

RoboFu

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Seems like she’s been trying to get his job and found a way to get rid of him. I don’t blame her a lot of people do that every day.
 

Closer

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While it's crass as hell, certainly worth getting a walk down the hall and a good talking to..
that's not harassment in the slightest, and if we keep going down this road where we can't actually bother identifying real harassment and just punish people for horribly subjective takes such as this you're just going to do nothing but harm to your movement.

It's not a movement, it's EA, a company that has no good reputation to harm.
 

Three

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Oct 26, 2014
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I can’t stop laughing, this guy cracks me up. Like seriously, in this day and age, who says stuff like this in a conference call of all places!?

And of course he deserved to be fired but still. Guys a savage
'The Man With The Golden Dong'
 

manfestival

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Nov 12, 2009
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Sexual harassment? Has this lady been in a box her whole life? Maybe I have? Cause I have never heard it used in a way to sexually harass someone ever.
 

meliboeus

Neo Member
Aug 20, 2015
13
0
150
seriously, what's wrong with your education? why are people so incapable of recognizing and understanding metaphors? I've heard this one millions of time in my native language (Italian) and in professional contexts as, used by literally every kind of person: no one would ever take those words literally and claim a sexual harassment - which by the way is a very serious topic and should be treated as such.
 

Zog

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
5,117
3,716
460
seriously, what's wrong with your education? why are people so incapable of recognizing and understanding metaphors? I've heard this one millions of time in my native language (Italian) and in professional contexts as, used by literally every kind of person: no one would ever take those words literally and claim a sexual harassment - which by the way is a very serious topic and should be treated as such.


I think's it's obvious that she used this opportunity to advance her career. It's not that she was confused, it's that she's opportunistic.
 

Paracelsus

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Jun 24, 2007
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I think this was probably already said here, but my guess is that she was triggered by the fact male genitalia was used as the measuring stick.
 

wildstrike

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Mar 6, 2018
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Everything was fine until the grid was shut down by dickless here.

Is this true?

Yes sir, it’s true. This man has no dick.
 

meliboeus

Neo Member
Aug 20, 2015
13
0
150
I think's it's obvious that she used this opportunity to advance her career. It's not that she was confused, it's that she's opportunistic.

I sincerely hope so - and suggesting that within certain contexts is more than enough to get you in trouble, but I see this all the time with college students when they take literature courses, for example.
 

tanooki27

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Dec 6, 2013
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Nonsense. There's no way to know what will offend someone. We cannot enforce a societal rule which is so entirely fluid and undefined. It no longer is a rule, but rather a baseball bat to be swung at anyone we don't like.

For society to function properly, we must be able to at least generally understand what the rules are. However, there's no way for you to know what will offend me. Hell, I'm sure I could say "have a nice day" in a way that would offend somebody. I can't know what you are sensitive about. I can't know what your expectations are. I am not a mind-reader and neither are you. You may be terribly offended if I simply say that the very concept of microaggressions is fucking ridiculous and utterly illogical.

you can't think nor speak without risking offending someone. Any conflict might offend, and conflict is core to discussion. Ultimately, I can control what comes out of my mouth but there's no way for me to control how you interpret it.

In this particular case, the man used a common phrase. Sure, it's arguably vulgar, but no that vulgar... id bet that the vast majority of people have likely heard it, at least in America and probably the UK. It's not harassment. I'd argue that it's barely even vulgar, and would be generally considered 'straight talk', that is, no mincing of words, getting down to brass tacks.

In fact I'd argue it's most often used to insult men. It and it's variants are sometimes used to belittle two alpha males arguing, as in ' would the two of you stop measuring your dicks".

The level of fragility our society is currently aiding and abetting is mind-boggling. This level of policing words and thought will not end well.

all good points. unfortunately, using rhetoric that references genetalia will never be officially recognized as acceptable in a professional setting. “straight talk” or not. the guy fucked up, and someone took advantage.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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StormCell

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good rule of thumb - don’t refer to your junk during a conference call

This guy gets it.

I'm curious to know whether the woman is a native Anglo speaker or not.

This is a great point. Having worked closely with colleagues whose first languages aren't english, I've spent a fair bit of time sharing cultural meanings for a lot of english phrases I'd never realized weren't plain statements. Even some of the most benign statements like "Welp, this topic is over my head" or "above my pay grade" is bewildering to someone who doesn't have these concepts.

I even got this question once: I like to carry a small pocket knife on me (yeah, I'm a country boy), and one day at the office we actually needed it. Rather, my indian colleague actually had need of it, so I handed it to him. He looked at me stunned that I had this small blade the whole time. Later he asked me, "You actually feel like you need that here? Does it help you feel safe?" He saw it as a small weapon. He literally looked at it like it was in the same class as a gun. It was just a small, legal-sized blade (acceptable under our workplace policy). It took some time explaining to him how it's a tool and would make a terrible defense weapon.
 

JCK75

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It's not a movement, it's EA, a company that has no good reputation to harm.

The entire Metoo movement started going after real creeps, but took all of two weeks to turn into destroying people because a date went badly, it's not just EA.
 
Apr 18, 2014
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It's not harassment and it is a common phrase but you just don't talk about your dick with co-workers until you know them well enough. Certainly not with women that work in different countries and may already want to get you fired.

Ironically, it was probably his disdain for dick measuring contests (and the attitude it represents) that got him to the place he was to begin with.
 
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Dec 3, 2018
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all good points. unfortunately, using rhetoric that references genetalia will never be officially recognized as acceptable in a professional setting. “straight talk” or not. the guy fucked up, and someone took advantage.
This is unprofessional itself. First, you say “fucked up”, which is dick related, then you used the gay-exclusionary term, “straight talk”, and gay people use their dicks to be gay. It’s really difficult to not think about dicks with the English language. You can not escape, as you are surrounded on all sides by dicks. You just have to suck it up when English is a mouthful.
 

Closer

Member
Nov 19, 2018
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The entire Metoo movement started going after real creeps, but took all of two weeks to turn into destroying people because a date went badly, it's not just EA.

I know, but we can't jump to conclusions without knowing what really happened. What we have now is that EA doesn't want someone using that kind of figure of speech, even though it is widely used on informal conversations.
 
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tanooki27

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Dec 6, 2013
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This is unprofessional itself. First, you say “fucked up”, which is dick related, then you used the gay-exclusionary term, “straight talk”, and gay people use their dicks to be gay. It’s really difficult to not think about dicks with the English language. You can not escape, as you are surrounded on all sides by dicks. You just have to suck it up when English is a mouthful.

GAF does not count as a professional setting. that is the whole point of this news item. this is about the workplace.
 
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StormCell

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Dec 11, 2018
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It's extreme to sack him over this one claim. I can't help wondering if this is truly their only grievance with him. If it is, then they likely have a lot more at stake than him simply returning to work. If it were me, not only would I no longer work for them after this is done, I'd have their whole legal team mounted on my wall as a trophy (aka I'd sue till there's daylight on the horizon).