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[Crossing Eden]

I was replying to a post about Abzu and No Man's Sky. Which by the way I 'only' consider 8/10 games myself, but at least better than most other games I played this year. But you can simply read in the reviews, glowering praise, not so high score.

If you only look back a couple of years maybe. It used to be the case that AAA was where all the exciting innovation took place, now they are mostly safe affairs copying off each other and intent on checking boxes, collapsing under the weight of their own production budgets. This is not a minority opinion, yours is.

Since this gen started tiple A became more diverse, the majority of triple A projects used to be variants of military shooters in 3rd and first person. That's no longer the case. Go back a few years and there's a way less diverse catalogue of choices to choose from. Many threads have pointed this out. The only evidence to the contrary is the constant harping on "if you don't like this go play a shooter" type shit like in the cringeworthy Digitally Downloaded review that treats as some sacred cow that isn't accepted by the gaming mainstream.

 

[pixellated_man]

Since this gen started tiple A became more diverse, the majority of triple A projects used to be variants of military shooters in 3rd and first person. That's no longer the case. Go back a few years and there's a way less diverse catalogue of choices to choose from. Many threads have pointed this out. The only evidence to the contrary is the constant harping on "if you don't like this go play a shooter" type shit like in the cringeworthy Digitally Downloaded review that treats as some sacred cow that isn't accepted by the gaming mainstream.

Spekkah is in agreement with you regarding the improvement in triple AAA diversity now compared to a few years back. The further you go back before that, the less this is true though, just like Spekkah alluded to in his post.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I'm more disappointed in the review outlets that apparently still favor flavorless AAA mush over games that try to do something different.

Oh yes, if only games like Journey, The Witness, and Inside had been critical darlings.

 

[spekkeh]

Since this gen started tiple A became more diverse, the majority of triple A projects used to be variants of military shooters in 3rd and first person. That's no longer the case.

Yes I agree, the last two years we have seen more diversity than the two years before that, but that's not really what I meant.

Oh yes, if only games like Journey, The Witness, and Inside had been critical darlings.

Was the Witness? I didn't get it because so many outlets were pretty down on it. Journey is four years ago. Inside is the only recent critical darling. Instead you see stuff like Fallout 4 and Dragon Age lapping up awards. Anyway, we're veering pretty off topic.

edit:

The Witness has an 87 on MC, which is higher than Fallout 4.

Yeah it appears to have gone up after the first few days. Or maybe I'm getting used to lower scores.

Also, it's clear The Witness will not earn many awards, because it doesn't adhere to some gold standard of what games should be (action blockbusters with crafting mechanics)

 

[OrbitalBeard]

The Witness has an 87 on MC, which is higher than Fallout 4.

 

[Demption]

I'd argue that The Witness will be on many GOTY - lists this year. Best gaming experiences this year for sure. Gaf seemed to be quite positive on it, as did many reviewers.

 

[SomTervo]

I'd argue that The Witness will be on many GOTY - lists this year. Best gaming experiences this year for sure. Gaf seemed to be quite positive on it, as did many reviewers.

It's a masterwork.

Anyway, better get back on-topic.

This game looks good, but one of the rare occasions where I'm tempted to wait for it on PS+ first.

 

[Spoo]

I finished this game and wrote up my impression in the OT.

Long story short, I really liked the visuals, but there's no much else going for this game imo. I'd recommend people wait for a sale, or for it to be a PS+ game.

 

[Mr. Mister]

And it doesn't matter if you don't agree, triple A games ARE way more diverse than they were in the past. And for good reason.

Mind providing evidence?

I want to live in your fantasy world.

 

[SomTervo]

Mind providing evidence?

I want to live in your fantasy world.

Hardly conclusive but I can't think of many projects as diverse or as ambitious from the late '00s as DotA, the Last of Us, The Witcher 3, AC Syndicate (in terms of cast), R6 Siege, DiRT, Splatoon, Life is Strange, The Wolf Among Us, Minecraft - which were all really successful. There are some really unusual AAA games still to come, too - like For Honor.

Of course there are only so many genres and styles of game so you can only diversify so much within your category.

 

[Mr. Mister]

Hardly conclusive but I can't think of many projects as diverse or as ambitious from the late '00s as DotA, the Last of Us, The Witcher 3, AC Syndicate (in terms of cast), R6 Siege, DiRT, Splatoon, Life is Strange, The Wolf Among Us, Minecraft - which were all really successful. There are some really unusual AAA games still to come, too - like For Honor.

I'd argue that outside of Splatoon, Minecraft, and Telltale (and to be fair Minecraft and the Telltale formula are years old at this point) that those are all incredibly derivitive, formulaic games. Some like Last of Us have great writing which is actually a relatively new addition to the genre but as a whole that list isn't very diverse when compared to previous generations & years. Great games but all very tried and true - just best in genre.

Of course there are only so many genres and styles of game so you can only diversify so much within your category.

Or try to create new genres / completely remix old ones.

 

[psychotron]

I hadn't heard anything about this until reading this thread. Looks great.

 

[KORNdoggy]

might have to get this and abzu...once i'm done with no mans sky anyway.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Mind providing evidence?

I want to live in your fantasy world.

I mean just to name an example, the most similar triple A games this year relative to the rest are UC4 and Quantum Break, two cinematic TPS, one with set pieces and verticality as it's claim while the other is all about time based powers and tv show integration. But just to go through this year's releases. Far Cry Primal, XCOM 2, Street Fighter 5, Watch Dogs 2, The Division, Hitman, Dark Souls 3, Mafia 3, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Dishonored 2, South Park The Fractured Butthole, Steep, Ratchet and Clank, Doom, Overwatch, Mirror's Edge Catalyst, The Last Guardian, FFXV, Battlefield 1, etc. etc. etc. I missed quite a few as well. What fantasy world am I living in exactly? Unless you're gonna do that thing where you define these games solely by genre and nothing us I don't think you have a leg to stand on. Gaming is as diverse and colorful as it's ever been, even the triple A space, and that's a good thing that shouldn't be undermined by cynicism.

 

[Mr. Mister]

I mean just to name an example, the most similar triple A games this year relative to the rest are UC4 and Quantum Break, two cinematic TPS, one with set pieces and verticality as it's claim while the other is all about time based powers and tv show integration. But just to go through this year's releases. Far Cry Primal, XCOM 2, Street Fighter 5, Watch Dogs 2, The Division, Hitman, Dark Souls 3, Mafia 3, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Dishonored 2, South Park The Fractured Butthole, Steep, Ratchet and Clank, Doom, Overwatch, Mirror's Edge Catalyst, The Last Guardian, FFXV, Battlefield 1, etc. etc. etc. I missed quite a few as well. What fantasy world am I living in exactly? Unless you're gonna do that thing where you define these games solely by genre and nothing us I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

This is a list with 90% sequels with some of the franchises spanning 15-20 years. Not a good argument for a ton of diversity in the last few years.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I don't think there's anywhere near as much diversity now as there was in the PS2 days where you had a lot more eclectic Japanese games, but we're still in a pretty great time for gaming and those historic games aren't (for the most part) actually going anywhere so we can still play them.

But anyway, based on my 30-ish minutes with Bound last night, this is just the kind of artsy pretentious game I enjoy, and seems to be hitting similar notes to Journey or The Unfinished Swan.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

This is a list with 90% sequels with some of the franchises spanning 15-20 years. Not a good argument for a ton of diversity in the last few years.

His list was pretty good, actually. You're just moving goal posts by ignoring releases that don't fit your narrative.

 

[spekkeh]

His list was pretty good, actually. You're just moving goal posts by ignoring releases that don't fit your narrative.

I called AAA largely flavorless mush. CrossingEden said they were more diverse than ever, and then names a large variety of genres. However, they're nearly all derivative sequels. I don't think Mr. Mister is the one moving goalposts in this discussion. Though it seems more like we're just talking in two different directions.

 

[Mr. Mister]

His list was pretty good, actually. You're just moving goal posts by ignoring releases that don't fit your narrative.

Whatever you say. Want to actually explain what about that list of sequels proves his "fact" that we are more diverse in gaming than ever in the last few years? For some reason I doubt you will.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I called AAA largely flavorless mush. CrossingEden said they were more diverse than ever, and then names a large variety of genres. However, they're nearly all derivative sequels. I don't think Mr. Mister is the one moving goalposts in this discussion. Though it seems more like we're just talking in two different directions.

Who cares if they're sequels? That was never brought up before.

I mean, if you wanted to say "there are less new AAA IP being created these days", I would actually agree with you. But you didn't. When it comes to what the actual intent was with your statements, I'm not a mind reader.

Whatever you say. Want to actually explain what about that list of sequels proves his "fact" that we are more diverse in gaming than ever in the last few years? For some reason I doubt you will.

Well, I never actually agreed with him, so I don't need to explain anything. I was specifically commenting on your ability to selectively ignore anything that doesn't fit your rose-colored narrative.

One of the reasons I find this entire discussion ridiculous is the discounting of the indie scene. Considering many indie games consist of teams just as large (or larger) than many of the so-called "AAA" teams from the 80's and 90's, simply centering this conversation around development teams in the hundreds seems incredibly pointless.

 

[DirtyLarry]

This thread reminded me I preordered it 2 weeks ago. Looking forward to checking it out tonight.

 

[Crossing Eden]

This is a list with 90% sequels with some of the franchises spanning 15-20 years. Not a good argument for a ton of diversity in the last few years.

You said nothing about new IPs. Of which there are many. And your post says nothing about the actual games themselves as "but that franchise lasted long" is about as worthless a statement as "well this is an rpg."

 

[Mr. Mister]

You said nothing about new IPs. Of which there are many. And your post says nothing about the actual games themselves as "but that franchise lasted long" is about as worthless a statement as "well this is an rpg."

Because more than half of those franchises have existed alongside each other for nearly ten years. So what was it Overwatch or Watchdogs that finally got added to the pile of sequels that made the last few years so truly diverse?

 

[Kusagari]

Because more than half of those franchises have existed alongside each other for nearly ten years. So what was it Overwatch or Watchdogs that finally got added to the pile of sequels that made the last few years so truly diverse?

Diversity isn't analogous to originality, which is what you seem to be arguing.

 

[danowat]

But anyway, based on my 30-ish minutes with Bound last night, this is just the kind of artsy pretentious game I enjoy, and seems to be hitting similar notes to Journey or The Unfinished Swan.

Looked interesting, but that paragraph put me right off.

Apart from Journey or Unfinished Swan, what else is it close too?, not sure why, but I thought it El Shaddi when I saw the trailer, although there is no combat (?).

 

[Crossing Eden]

Because more than half of those franchises have existed alongside each other for nearly ten years. So what was it Overwatch or Watchdogs that finally got added to the pile of sequels that made the last few years so truly diverse?

You realize there's more to a game then being a sequel or new IP right?

Diversity isn't analogous to originality, which is what you seem to be arguing.

Thank you.

 

[Mr. Mister]

Thank you.

Sounds like we disagree on diversity but are totally aligned that the last few years have been wholly unoriginal. We've found some common ground.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Sounds like we disagree on diversity but are totally aligned that the last few years have been wholly unoriginal. We've found some common ground.

It might be time to just take the L and move on.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Looked interesting, but that paragraph put me right off.

Apart from Journey or Unfinished Swan, what else is it close too?, not sure why, but I thought it El Shaddi when I saw the trailer, although there is no combat (?).

I haven't played El Shaddai, but honestly so far the closest comparison I can think of in gameplay terms is Journey. The gameplay is not really taxing. There is some platforming and you might need to search for a few seconds to make your way forward, but it's just as much about the audiovisual experience as anything else. The animation on the Princess is absolutely stunning and you can do a few fancy moves while you move forward (i.e. cartwheel or leap), but really based on my first 30-ish minutes it's just a pretty game with some interesting abstract themes and very little gameplay depth. If that does not sound appealing then I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Goldenroad]

I don't really remember pre-ordering this game, but it's sitting there on my hard drive. I thought I just added it to my cart and was only going to buy it if I decided on one of the other promo games...but I must have clicked buy. It looks like something I'll enjoy either way.

 

[Possumowner]

Might give this a whirl,like the visual style and I always like something a bit quirky

 

[CHC]

Very intrigued by Bound, that bit about the "10%" where you don't play as the character is really tugging at my curiosity. I don't really want to know much more about this - I'll probably just get it at some point soon. Spectacular year for indie games though - Abzu and Inside have both been awesome and it's just incredible what can be done visually by a small team nowadays. All gorgeous games.

This is a list with 90% sequels with some of the franchises spanning 15-20 years. Not a good argument for a ton of diversity in the last few years.

Ok so just ignore the content of the actual games and judge them based literally on their titles alone?

Sounds like we disagree on diversity but are totally aligned that the last few years have been wholly unoriginal. We've found some common ground.

Please just post like.... 3 ideas for what would be something that was both "original" and also viable as a mass-market game then?

 

[Humdinger]

I'm really liking the game so far. When I'm playing, I'm completely immersed. It's mesmerizing.