'Boy crisis' threatens America's future with economic, health and suicide risks

DeepEnigma

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I have discovered that there is, in fact, a boy crisis, that it is a global crisis, and that it is particularly egregious in the U.S.

In an astonishing disclosure about the two greatest dangers to the future of America’s economy, Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell revealed on CBS' "60 Minutes" last month the peril posed by “young males”: young males not looking for work; being addicted to drugs (think opioid crisis); and being unprepared for the transition to technology. Powell posits that this economic problem is also a national security problem. He implies that we ignore this crisis at our own peril. Yet his warning is ignored.

In my half-century of research on boys and men, I have discovered that there is, in fact, a boy crisis, that it is a global crisis, and that it is particularly egregious in America. The crisis is more than economic. It is multifaceted, with each facet magnifying the others.

It is a crisis of education. Worldwide, 60% of the students who achieve less than the baseline level of proficiency in any of the three core subjects of the Program for the International Assessment are boys. Even boys’ IQs are dropping.

It is a crisis of mental health. Boys’ suicide rate goes from only slightly more than girls before age 14 to three times that of girls’ between 15 and 19, to 4 1/2 times that of girls between 20 and 24. Mass shooters, prisoners and Islamic State terrorism recruits are at least 90% male.

It is a crisis of physical health. American men’s life expectancy has decreased two-tenths of a year even as American women’s has remained the same. Boys and men are dying earlier in 14 out of 15 of the leading causes of death.

It is a crisis of shame — of boys feeling that their masculinity is toxic; that the future is female; that dads are but bumbling fools or deadbeats.

It is a crisis of economic health. The economy is making a transition from muscle to mental — or from muscle to microchip, as with the 1.7 million truck drivers predicted to be largely replaced by self-driving trucks. With the United States neglecting vocational education, boys with no college education have a 20% chance of being unemployed — about five times the national average.

Boys are falling behind without dads

Boys are falling behind girls in the 63 largest developed nations. As developed nations developed solutions to surviving, they allowed more permission for divorce and for children to be raised with minimal or no father involvement. A great solution — less fear of starvation — created a new problem: dad-deprivation.

I discovered that the boy crisis resides where dads do not reside. For example, The American Psychological Association found that father absence predicts the profile of both the bully and the bullied’s poor social skills, and the bully’s poor grades and self-esteem. According to a study in the Journal of Marriage and Family, every 1% increase in fatherlessness in a neighborhood predicts a 3% increase in adolescent violence.
It starts early. Before six months of age, the less interaction a boy has with his dad, the lower his mental competence.

And dad-deprivation is a significant predictor of the increasing rate of male suicide, drug overdose, obesity and withdrawal into video game addiction. It even predicts by age 9 a shorter life expectancy as determined by shorter telomeres, protective end caps of chromosomes. Aggregately, this leads to my predicting that the biggest gap between boys who are successful and unsuccessful in the future will be the gap between those who are dad-enriched versus dad-deprived.

As Powell points out, America exacerbates this problem by falling behind every developed nation in preparing our sons for the changes in technology. In contrast, Japan has extensive vocational education programs, with 99.6% of their graduates receiving jobs after graduation. A boy who is not academically inclined may be bored by physics and chemistry until he learns that to be a highly paid welder, he needs them. Then he sees purpose, and his motivation changes.

The solution is involved fathers

There is a straightforward solution to dad-deprivation. It is dad-involvement. Conservatives have long supported dad-involvement; and both feminists Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem have said that mothers would not be equal at work until dads were equal in the home.

Plus, it addresses numerous problems: First, dad-deprived girls experience most of the problems faced by boys, albeit less intensely. Second, an involved dad predicts a son much more likely to be employed, so aspiring moms don’t have to search for a dad in unemployment lines. Third, with fewer boys defining their purpose as future warriors by being disposable in war, and fewer defining masculinity as being a sole breadwinner, millions of young men are experiencing a “purpose void.” Inspiring young men to become “Father Warriors” can fill that purpose void. But this also involves inspiring women to value father warriors.

Solutions to the boy crisis must be addressed simultaneously in the family, in schools and by policymakers. To name a few: Parents need communication training to prevent the divorces that breed the boy crisis. Schools need male teachers, vocational education and recess. Presidential candidates need to identify the boy crisis as a signature issue. And President Trump, with an executive order, can create a White House Council on Boys and Men to make the boy crisis a national priority, so millions of parents and sons do not feel isolated and ashamed — but supported to address a solution toward stronger families, more boy-friendly schools, and a more economically and psychologically secure America.

Warren Farrell, co-author of "The Boy Crisis," is chairman of the Coalition to Create a White House Council on Boys and Men. Follow him on Twitter: @drwarrenfarrell

Source: USA Today
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I read Warren Farrell's 'Myth of Male Power' a long time ago and I felt like it was a reasonable raising of the alarm bell for the direction our culture was heading. It's sad to see most of his predictions from 25 years ago coming true.

I don't think it's really deniable at this point. However, instead of raising this issue with the same ideologues who allowed the problem to persist for so long in the first place (some might say deliberately so) and hoping for them to help, men should do something about it. While I don't have any personal involvement with MGTOW groups or "men's rights advocacy" groups, they seem like a good start to correcting these problems.

The problems will definitely persist for a few decades longer. There will be no quick fix. Rather, it will be a generational problem that either gets worse or slowly gets better over the next few decades.
 

Corderlain

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The solution is killing this all incompassing idea in politics, media, and school that males need to be deprioritized. Everything about being a boy is demonized in school. They push drugs if you're hyper, punishments for physical games and activities, and don't even get me started on some of the gender biases teachers in the US have.

Edited: Maybe deprioritization isn't the correct term, but where female is a baseline 0 and makes are a -1
 
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Bolivar687

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The author of this article had a really good talk with Jordan Peterson about this last year:


It can be heartbreaking to listen to, because, as game players, I think a lot of us know on a visceral level just how true this stuff is. I was on a much smaller game forum before GAF and it eventually struck me just how many guys on there had issues with their masculinity and sexuality. The numbers just seemed wildly disproportional to the general population, and I began to wonder if games being our main escape had any connection or at least correlation.

This is a reminder that the reaction to the current state of the Left is not partisan for many of us. The retribution posture and narrative is just not in line with the liberalism I grew up in during the 90s and 2000s. It's tearing this country a part and it's having dire, life and death consequences on so many young men today. And it only feeds their radicalization.
 

TrainedRage

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It's almost as if young men are being told by the media and social media that they are worthless.

And if they try to better themselves by watching Jordan Peterson... Well now you are an incel, white nationalist.

"Toxic masculinity" is not the issue. It's these femminists that have huge mouthpiece's backed by the media, calling men trash for years.
 

cryptoadam

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Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote about this in the 1960's and called it a crisis when it was at 25% for blacks and 5% for whites in single family households. And what was he called? Racist of course!

Now we are at 72% for blacks and 25% for whites. Feelings over facts even back then.

But if you dare say a father is important to a childs life then forget it you might as well jump out a building. Look what happened to Terry Crews and how he was forced to apologize and was vilified for his statement. Men are bad, and we can indoctrinate our children to turn into women at a young age so they can never have children anyways. And having children is oppresive and part of the patriarchy keeping woman in DA KITCHEN /s. And hey why not get an abortion when you are dialating as long as it causes you some sort of emotional or financial stress!
 

appaws

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What does it mean to be a man in our society? I mean, the "head of household" thing has faded into memory for so many of us. That was the social role for us once we reached our mid-20s and married. What is it now, when so many of us delay marriage for so long, don't have kids, or when women are the breadwinners...?

I am a very traditional Catholic, and both my wife and I support the idea of the man as the head of the house. But does that have as much meaning in today's society...? My wife is a doctor and makes more money than I do, where does that leave me as a decision maker for our family. Just go back to my grandparents generation, and these social arrangements were much more real. Neither of my grandmothers ever worked, except for a part time job in retail just for fun after my grandpa passed away. I look to that old world, but I also know deep inside that I am not a creature of that world and cannot "LARP" as one when I am a confirmed Gen Xer.
 

Bolivar687

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Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote about this in the 1960's and called it a crisis when it was at 25% for blacks and 5% for whites in single family households. And what was he called? Racist of course
I honestly believe that this report explains everything that's really been going on in the last 60 years with intergenerational poverty and wage stagnation. And now it's no longer true about just the African American community, but society at large.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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What does it mean to be a man in our society? I mean, the "head of household" thing has faded into memory for so many of us. That was the social role for us once we reached our mid-20s and married. What is it now, when so many of us delay marriage for so long, don't have kids, or when women are the breadwinners...?

I am a very traditional Catholic, and both my wife and I support the idea of the man as the head of the house. But does that have as much meaning in today's society...? My wife is a doctor and makes more money than I do, where does that leave me as a decision maker for our family. Just go back to my grandparents generation, and these social arrangements were much more real. Neither of my grandmothers ever worked, except for a part time job in retail just for fun after my grandpa passed away. I look to that old world, but I also know deep inside that I am not a creature of that world and cannot "LARP" as one when I am a confirmed Gen Xer.
The leader and follower relationship has been warped in our society. The assumption is that the leader is a negative role hanging over everyone's heads. It's almost as if there can be no "good" leader, just like there is no "good" masculinity to some of these ideologues. So, there had to be a breakup of who was responsible for what, and as a result you have households where both parents work and both parents fight over who handles the household.

I wouldn't be able to do half the things I've accomplished without my wife. I have skills and she has skills. I take it upon myself to provide for the family and she applies her acumen and thrift to improve our household with me. This is the most time-proven arrangement for humans since it is also compatible with our biological processes (like raising children). It won't work for everyone, but it should be considered risky to step outside of this traditional structure.

A certain ideology sprung up and insisted that these structures weren't necessary. Have we replaced those structures with something equivalent, or even superior? I'd say the answer to that is No. The family is the nucleus of the society, so if you mess with the family, society will eventually be unable to pick up the slack. The result is cultural collapse which we are already seeing across many communities that embraced the modern non-family model.
 

cryptoadam

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I honestly believe that this report explains everything that's really been going on in the last 60 years with intergenerational poverty and wage stagnation. And now it's no longer true about just the African American community, but society at large.
African Amerian's were the canary in the coal mine. They also went from 25%-72%. Whites are at 25% right now. With the way things are going in another 40 years or less they can hit 70%+ as well.

If 25% was a crisis in the 60's, well we are full blown code red right now.

But its sad because if you want to discuss this you are either racist or sexist or both.
 

weltalldx

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It's almost as if young men are being told by the media and social media that they are worthless.

And if they try to better themselves by watching Jordan Peterson... Well now you are an incel, white nationalist.

"Toxic masculinity" is not the issue. It's these femminists that have huge mouthpiece's backed by the media, calling men trash for years.
There's also a culture that tries to emasculate males while at the same time making it difficult for them to succeed. We have institutions actively making the case that males should be less competitive, less motivated, less capable in order to accommodate their female counterparts. It starts in academia, where intersectionalist have warped the definition of masculinity and declaring it "toxic", to the workplace that punishes men for working harder than women by using the false pretense of "equal pay", to the mass media/entertainment industry normalizing and celebrating non traditional gender roles.

This sudden shift in cultural norms and expectations have caused tremendous riptides in gender power dynamics, lowering the importance of males' role in society while elevating females. This is an artificial social change predicated on feelings rather than facts, on perceived notions of fairness rather than merits and competencies. We see the failures of these changes throughout every segment of society. Intercity schools lead by mostly female teachers producing the least capable students. Females increasingly overtaking service industry jobs, which are traditionally the lowest paying jobs while their male partners don't even bother working. And we wonder why there is an opioid crisis happening across the nation. Males in these affected communities are feeling left out and left behind.
 

TrainedRage

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There's also a culture that tries to emasculate males while at the same time making it difficult for them to succeed. We have institutions actively making the case that males should be less competitive, less motivated, less capable in order to accommodate their female counterparts. It starts in academia, where intersectionalist have warped the definition of masculinity and declaring it "toxic", to the workplace that punishes men for working harder than women by using the false pretense of "equal pay", to the mass media/entertainment industry normalizing and celebrating non traditional gender roles.

This sudden shift in cultural norms and expectations have caused tremendous riptides in gender power dynamics, lowering the importance of males' role in society while elevating females. This is an artificial social change predicated on feelings rather than facts, on perceived notions of fairness rather than merits and competencies. We see the failures of these changes throughout every segment of society. Intercity schools lead by mostly female teachers producing the least capable students. Females increasingly overtaking service industry jobs, which are traditionally the lowest paying jobs while their male partners don't even bother working. And we wonder why there is an opioid crisis happening across the nation. Males in these affected communities are feeling left out and left behind.
Well said.
 

juliotendo

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The main catalyst for this as it is for many other social issues is simply the decline of the American family...

...Everyone is divorced 2 or 3 or 4 times with kids all over the place and nobody cares. It’s no wonder why middle America has become a drug infested, alcohol ridden, ignorant wasteland of human beings.
 

ViceUniverse

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I like alpha women who are ambitious and get results. If you're a 1920s woman I don't want you. I don't understand why people want to go back to that. Rise and become more powerful yourself. The power of the individual.

If people have good parents (or parent) they will likely turn out fine.
 

bucyou

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The main catalyst for this as it is for many other social issues is simply the decline of the American family...

...Everyone is divorced 2 or 3 or 4 times with kids all over the place and nobody cares. It’s no wonder why middle America has become a drug infested, alcohol ridden, ignorant wasteland of human beings.
To be fair, its not just "middle" America. You can find the same filth from LA to NY
 
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One problem with the way numbers will be reported (both here, and in the "affirmative" articles lauding girls moving ahead, etc) is that everything above is either looking strictly at the low end (X% fail a certain highschool benchmark) or looking at averages (eg. male average is just aligned with female on most measures, so this means greater justice etc).

It's well established in numerous areas, however, that males have a much higher variance across these measurements. So you have boys greatly overrepresented both at the low end (disorders, either behavioral or learning) and at the high end (truly outstanding / high capacity minds). It isn't honest to look at the former fact and continue to hide the latter. Look at the few remaining measurements of extremely rare cognitive ability and you'll see this emerge (SATs etc have become worthless here, because they have a deliberately low ceiling / max score that is partly there just to prevent revealing the large male advantage in high-end math skills or having that used in admissions for engineering).

What this means is that men tend towards being very high-status or very low-status once you get a meritocracy that runs entirely off the rails, as we have now. This certainly happens in the dating market, as noted often recently: men either fare very well or horribly in tech-driven pure dating markets, while average women do fine. It's the same effect everywhere: the service economy favors just being presentable and average, but doesn't have a home any longer for simply reliable, committed labor that many below-average men completed faithfully in the past. It's all a disaster.

At one time, most any man who follows the rules would at least have a very good shot at a job with some dignity, and marriage, and children: the minimum good life, in other words. Today, only the exceptional men get ahead, women do fine thanks to safety nets that privilege their needs and in a service economy based on being acceptably agreeable above all, and the remaining masses of men have little to live for.

(Disclaimer: if you think I'm projecting, recognize that I'm married, with kids, and with a great career that I enjoy. But I see the reality all around me, including many old pals who are burnouts.)
 

Afro Republican

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Black people were saying this for years but it only becomes a problem when it effects you to.

Of course it's intentional. Also this "gendering your kids" stuff doesn't help with things either.

We need a complete revamping of our medical system, our education system, and to shun all groups that want to destroy the family unit.
 

Sqorin Hammerfarf

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I really hate how these labels get applied to things that are basic, common male activities. Everything male is now sexist. Like thinking girls are pretty, or being aggressive or competitive, or getting together with your male friends, removing your trousers, and jerking off the guy on your right while reciting the names of female celebrities. They won't stop until they've taken everything from men.
 

appaws

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I really hate how these labels get applied to things that are basic, common male activities. Everything male is now sexist. Like thinking girls are pretty, or being aggressive or competitive, or getting together with your male friends, removing your trousers, and jerking off the guy on your right while reciting the names of female celebrities. They won't stop until they've taken everything from men.
The guy sitting all the way on the left gets a pretty raw deal.
 

matt404au

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I read Warren Farrell's 'Myth of Male Power' a long time ago and I felt like it was a reasonable raising of the alarm bell for the direction our culture was heading. It's sad to see most of his predictions from 25 years ago coming true.

I don't think it's really deniable at this point. However, instead of raising this issue with the same ideologues who allowed the problem to persist for so long in the first place (some might say deliberately so) and hoping for them to help, men should do something about it. While I don't have any personal involvement with MGTOW groups or "men's rights advocacy" groups, they seem like a good start to correcting these problems.

The problems will definitely persist for a few decades longer. There will be no quick fix. Rather, it will be a generational problem that either gets worse or slowly gets better over the next few decades.
I don't think MGTOW or mens rights groups are the solution. Especially MGTOW, that shit is just sad. The problem is that the focus is all on rights and not on responsibilities. "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" has been inverted. It's just me me me from feminists and mens rights groups seem to be a reaction to the damage they have caused rather than addressing the fundamental issues. Western society is not and never has been an oppressive patriarchy. All strains of feminism have been based on patriarchy theory and it's just a lie. Start to question patriarchy theory and everything else unravels.
 

autoduelist

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Feminist theory is inherently wrong. In most cultures, history isn't one of Male domination, but rather a symbiotic relationship between men and women. We got through it together. For evolutionary reasons males became hunters and fighters and protectors, willing to take more risks, more aggressive. Technology [birth control, tampons, etc] opened up a lot of possibilities for women in the past 100 years, and we re struggling to find that new balance. But rather than find it together, a misunderstanding of our collective past is putting us at odds with one another.

Because of that misunderstanding, masculinity is being is unfairly maligned. Because certain traits do well in business situations [risk, aggressiveness, etc] those traits are being villified as they 'maintain the patriarchy' rather than recognized as positive, too. Rather than adapt to their new place in the workplace, women view maleness as a problem and want men to change to their needs, rather than have women adapt to the workplace and meet somewhere halfway.

It doesn't help that feminist theory generally views everything through a narrow focus. They'll talk about their lack of a vote, for example, but not recognize men's role as disposable cannon fodder throughout the ages.
 
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I read Warren Farrell's 'Myth of Male Power' a long time ago and I felt like it was a reasonable raising of the alarm bell for the direction our culture was heading. It's sad to see most of his predictions from 25 years ago coming true.

I don't think it's really deniable at this point. However, instead of raising this issue with the same ideologues who allowed the problem to persist for so long in the first place (some might say deliberately so) and hoping for them to help, men should do something about it. While I don't have any personal involvement with MGTOW groups or "men's rights advocacy" groups, they seem like a good start to correcting these problems.

The problems will definitely persist for a few decades longer. There will be no quick fix. Rather, it will be a generational problem that either gets worse or slowly gets better over the next few decades.
I've always thought about starting a local support group for men regarding unspoken issues like this, but I know without any proof or evidence, it will get painted in a negative light and nothing good would come out of it in the end.
 

triplestation

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This is very interesting and entertaining to me. I like to look at things from a clouds eye point of view, just like someone looking at an ant hill observing an ant society.

Is this phenomenon something that calls for a solution? Or should it be left alone?

I'm a believer that if you ask a girl out and she says no, then it means no and she is no longer worth pursuing. Because the answer is clear. For females to lead such successful lives without the need for men and bear children is their choice. I think people should be free to choose how they wanna lead their lives. But if a woman reaches a point where she is no longer favorable in a man's eyes then I just see that as someone weeding themselves out. People who are in their right mind deserve what they work for and people in their right mind deserve the kind of lives they want to live.

There are plenty men out there that are doing fine for themselves relationship wise despite many who need God Jordan Peterson in their lives. Likewise for women. It is a funny time to be alive with a lot of bizarre things happening but I see it as a messy hiccup that is slowly self-adjusting itself. It will level out eventually and there absolutely will be changes.

There is a beautiful quote from Jordan Peterson on one of his latest instagram posts:

"We require routine and tradition. That’s order. Order can become excessive, and that’s not good, but chaos can swamp us, so we drown— and that is also not good. We need to stay on the straight and narrow path. "
 

Ke0

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Always found it interesting the bootstrap/every man for themselves mentality applies to everything except this.

It's almost as if that every man for himself mentality that America champions is having an adverse effect on men as most can't rise to the ever increasingly impossible challenge…

Or we can just continue blaming women
 
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ViceUniverse

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Always found it interesting the bootstrap/every man for themselves mentality applies to everything except this.

It's almost as if that every man for himself mentality that America champions is having an adverse effect on men as most can't rise to the ever increasingly impossible challenge…

Or we can just continue blaming women
IPeople tend to get fairly authoritarian on this topic, and they look to get led.

I get it, people are confused (including the ones doing well) and many are doing poorly. But in the end, it's still up to you to evolve despite the challenges. You can only rely on others for a little bit of help past what your parents can give you.
 
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Bolivar687

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This is very interesting and entertaining to me. I like to look at things from a clouds eye point of view, just like someone looking at an ant hill observing an ant society.

Is this phenomenon something that calls for a solution? Or should it be left alone?

I'm a believer that if you ask a girl out and she says no, then it means no and she is no longer worth pursuing. Because the answer is clear. For females to lead such successful lives without the need for men and bear children is their choice. I think people should be free to choose how they wanna lead their lives. But if a woman reaches a point where she is no longer favorable in a man's eyes then I just see that as someone weeding themselves out. People who are in their right mind deserve what they work for and people in their right mind deserve the kind of lives they want to live.

There are plenty men out there that are doing fine for themselves relationship wise despite many who need God Jordan Peterson in their lives. Likewise for women. It is a funny time to be alive with a lot of bizarre things happening but I see it as a messy hiccup that is slowly self-adjusting itself. It will level out eventually and there absolutely will be changes.

There is a beautiful quote from Jordan Peterson on one of his latest instagram posts:

"We require routine and tradition. That’s order. Order can become excessive, and that’s not good, but chaos can swamp us, so we drown— and that is also not good. We need to stay on the straight and narrow path. "
The point at which life expectancies begin to decline because of overdoses and suicides is the point at which something should probably be done.

I don't know what your third paragraph is getting at, because I can't imagine anyone here would propose women may no longer turn down dates or refuse breeding. I'm tired of seeing paper tigers like this being raised because it completely derails the discussion on important issues.

The problem is clearly cultural, not political, and the solution is for more middle of the road people to start calling out how insane and destructive this behavior is, which corporations like Gillette are now obsessed with soap boxing. It would also be nice if the advocacy journalists would stop vilifying people like Sam Harris or Bill Maher whenever they try to self police on the left.
 

appaws

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Always found it interesting the bootstrap/every man for themselves mentality applies to everything except this.

It's almost as if that every man for himself mentality that America champions is having an adverse effect on men as most can't rise to the ever increasingly impossible challenge…

Or we can just continue blaming women
I don't blame women, even the small minority of women who played an outsized role in carrying out this revolution. We can only blame ourselves because we let this happen. We voted for the 19th Amendment. We let them move into male occupations, and then into positions of authority over us. They could not have done it without us, especially because a majority of women had no interest in doing any of those things until we started being willing to abdicate our proper roles in society.
 

eclipze

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I don't blame women, even the small minority of women who played an outsized role in carrying out this revolution. We can only blame ourselves because we let this happen. We voted for the 19th Amendment. We let them move into male occupations, and then into positions of authority over us. They could not have done it without us, especially because a majority of women had no interest in doing any of those things until we started being willing to abdicate our proper roles in society.
So repeal the 19th?
 

Taxexemptionz

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The question you must ask yourself about any system is, is the system sustainable. Our society's social dynamics are not working. The economy is kinda good for now but when it goes down things will get bad. Automation is on it's way. If you think millions of unemployed single men are just going to do nothing you are dreaming. Society will deal with the problem when unhappy men deal with society. The question is how bad can it get?



A catalyzing moment is approaching, who will promise what to these young men for a future? Single unemployed men have no stake in society and every reason to burn it down. They just need a catalyzing moment and someone who looks like a moral authority to give them permission.
 

Barnabot

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So that Terry Crews' tweet was not that wrong afterall? Irregardless who took the role as a father figure.
 

Tesseract

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men have it pretty rough right now in america

there's plenty of help for women but men keep falling more and more behind

it's pretty sad
 

appaws

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So repeal the 19th?
Yes, definitely. I can’t think of a valid reason why women should vote. The exercise of power in the public sphere is male by its very nature. Not to mention that no society that cannot reproduce itself should be doing anything but raising fertility. We don’t even need any crazy “Handmaids Tale” scenario to make that happen, just to return the sexes to the channels they have occupied for 99.9% of human history.

In terms of what's good for keeping a country alive, it might be good.

I once heard that women are biologically not loyal to tribes. Because when their current tribe was wiped out, their choices were mate with the new tribe or die.
And they value security over all else. Which is proper for mothering but not for running a society. I have heard it said that if society were run by women, and they came to a river, they simply would have given up and stayed on the one side. Every bridge on this planet has been built by men. It is the male that strives for greatness and growth.
 

ArchaeEnkidu

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Yes, definitely. I can’t think of a valid reason why women should vote. The exercise of power in the public sphere is male by its very nature. Not to mention that no society that cannot reproduce itself should be doing anything but raising fertility. We don’t even need any crazy “Handmaids Tale” scenario to make that happen, just to return the sexes to the channels they have occupied for 99.9% of human history.



And they value security over all else. Which is proper for mothering but not for running a society. I have heard it said that if society were run by women, and they came to a river, they simply would have given up and stayed on the one side. Every bridge on this planet has been built by men. It is the male that strives for greatness and growth.
 

matt404au

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I can't get on board with women not having the right to vote, but I think the way it was achieved was arse backwards and based on the lie of oppression. They gained the right to vote without the reciprocal responsibility of the draft which is as great an example of having your cake and eating it too as I can think of.
 

ArchaeEnkidu

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I can't get on board with women not having the right to vote, but I think the way it was achieved was arse backwards and based on the lie of oppression. They gained the right to vote without the reciprocal responsibility of the draft which is as great an example of having your cake and eating it too as I can think of.
Most women I know are all for being part of the draft. It is beyond time that it became a thing.
 

matt404au

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Most women I know are all for being part of the draft. It is beyond time that it became a thing.
We must know very different women. Most women I know subscribe to traditional feminine values and recognise the advantages they have in current society (I loathe the term privilege, but it's apt). Very few women in my social circles want to be forced into the draft and they acknowledge that, in this context, the right to vote is a form of inequality. It's one I'm ok with though.
 

ArchaeEnkidu

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We must know very different women. Most women I know subscribe to traditional feminine values and recognise the advantages they have in current society (I loathe the term privilege, but it's apt). Very few women in my social circles want to be forced into the draft and they acknowledge that, in this context, the right to vote is a form of inequality. It's one I'm ok with though.
I live in the midwest and, surprisingly, I find that mostly left leaning folks in the region are against women being in the draft. Most republicans seem perfectly okay with the idea.
 

DeepEnigma

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Most women I know are all for being part of the draft. It is beyond time that it became a thing.
I will argue that registering the draft of today, was different than the draft back then, and if people of today who seem on board lived back then, when they were drafting for WW2 or Vietnam, I think they would sing a different tune.

We live in a current Society of Comforts of not really worrying about those things really transpiring. But good on them regardless.