Brazil's Bolsonaro takes office and pushes crony capitalism; targets LGBT and the indigenous while purging government contractors of dissenters

Dec 22, 2010
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New Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro issued an executive order on Wednesday making the Agriculture Ministry responsible for deciding on lands claimed by indigenous peoples, in a victory for agribusiness that will likely enrage environmentalists. It says the Agriculture Ministry will now be responsible for “identification, delimitation, demarcation and registration of lands traditionally occupied by indigenous people.” The move stoked concern among environmentalists and rights groups that the far-right president, who took office on Tuesday, will open up the vast Amazon rainforest and other ecologically sensitive areas of Brazil to greater commercial exploitation.
The executive order also moves the Brazilian Forestry Service, which promotes the sustainable use of forests and is currently linked to the Environment Ministry, under Agriculture Ministry control. Additionally, the decree states that the Agriculture Ministry will be in charge of the management of public forests. Bolsonaro, who enjoys strong support from Brazil’s powerful agribusiness sector, said during his campaign he was considering such a move, arguing that protected lands should be opened to commercial activities.
Critics say Bolsonaro’s plan to open indigenous reservations to commercial activity will destroy native cultures and languages by integrating the tribes into Brazilian society. Environmentalists say the native peoples are the last custodians of the Amazon, which is the world’s largest rainforest and is vital for climate stability. Adding to the gloom for NGOs, Bolsonaro also signed an executive order to give his government potentially far-reaching and restrictive powers over non-governmental organizations working in Brazil.
Source

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Brazil’s new right-wing President Jair Bolsonaro removed concerns regarding the LGBT community from being considered by a new human rights ministry hours after his inauguration, part of a sweeping set of executive orders targeting some minority groups. Bolsonaro stripped LGBT concerns from the ministry and named no other federal agency to consider such issues.

The former military officer and right-wing politician made incendiary comments about race and sexual orientation during his campaign, saying in 2011 that he would be “incapable of loving a homosexual son.” Dozens of gay couples rushed to get married in the country last month before Bolsonaro took office out of fear that he would try to limit same-sex marriage. The newly appointed human rights minister, Damares Alves, is an ultraconservative evangelical pastor who claims diversity policies have “threatened” the Brazilian family, AP noted.
Bolsonaro is also expected to announce the closing of an agency with the Education Ministry that worked to promote diversity in public schools and universities, according to a report from the Folha de S.Paulo newspaper. Bolsonaro, known as the “Trump of the Tropics,” was congratulated by the U.S. president after he was sworn into office. “The U.S.A. is with you!” Trump wrote on Twitter. Bolsonaro thanked Trump for his "words of encouragement." "Together, under God’s protection, we shall bring prosperity and progress to our people!" Bolsonaro tweeted.
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Source

The administration of Brazil's new President Jair Bolsonaro said Thursday it is starting a purge of government contractors to get rid of those who don't share its far-right ideology. The government "will clean the house," chief of staff Onyx Lorenzoni told a news conference after the first cabinet meeting with Bolsonaro, who took office this week. "It's the only way to govern with our ideas, our concepts and to carry out what Brazil's society decided in its majority," he said.
Lorenzoni said the ideological purge of contractors aimed "to do away with the Socialist and Communist ideas that during 30 years have led us to the chaos in which we live." The measure does not affect government employees, who enter Brazil's public service through a competitive exam and are protected from partisan politics by the constitution. As chief of staff, Lorenzoni holds ministerial rank and is seen as the second most powerful member of the executive after Bolsonaro. He said that 300 contractors in his ministry had been dismissed under the purge, but added some might be rehired if they passed an "evaluation" of their ideological leanings. The same shake-up could be extended to other ministries, he said.
"We are having the courage to do what maybe the previous government failed to do: clean the house right at the beginning." He was referring to the previous administration of president Michel Temer, a center-right politician who took over as a caretaker figure after the last Workers Party president, Dilma Rousseff, was impeached and removed from office in 2016. Bolsonaro has repeatedly railed against the Workers Party and its supporters. During his campaign, he said his "red" opponents -- the color of the Workers Party flag -- would have to "either go overseas or go to jail" if he won.
Source


Hopefully Brazil weathers this storm and manages to restrict Bolsonaro from doing too much damage. LGBT Brazil GAF stay safe :messenger_heart:
 

JordanN

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2012
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#3
Trump is constantly shat on, but ever since he took office, I haven't seen him actually push any policies that are meant to endanger LGBT. But he's still seen as a far-right Nazi/Hitler incarnate.

So like everything you hear in the media, take a "wait and see" approach before prophesying doom.
 
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Nov 5, 2016
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Pretty much what I know about this guy is REEEEEE hates him, so usually a good opinion to have is opposite of theirs.
From what I understand it’s a little more dangerous than that. This guy sounds a little radical. I don’t think this is just simply a “right wing guy gets bad rap from leftists” situation.
 

Bryank75

Gold Member
Jan 12, 2018
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#6
My wife is Brazilian, lived there for 2 years... This is exactly what the country needs right now. A strong leader to crush corruption and criminality. When I was there, more people were dying there per day by gunshot than in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.
They had shot a police helicopter down just before I flew out and boiled a reporter to death in a large metal drum, over fire in a Favela.
 
Dec 22, 2010
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My wife is Brazilian, lived there for 2 years... This is exactly what the country needs right now. A strong leader to crush corruption and criminality. When I was there, more people were dying there per day by gunshot than in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.
They had shot a police helicopter down just before I flew out and boiled a reporter to death in a large metal drum, over fire in a Favela.
How is any of the stuff I posted an appropriate response? LGBT concerns are no longer a "humans rights" concerns in order to fight crime? Turning over protected land that houses part of the rainforest to corporate greed which produces 20 % of the entire globe's oxygen is how you stop murder?
 
Dec 18, 2018
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#9
"Failure to acknowledge Pride Month" does not actually harm anyone.

Also his attempted "ban on transgender military service" did not go into place. Mattis said "we'll study the issue" which means "go fuck yourself sir."

Trump has been stopped from doing anything by the permanent government that doesn't get changed via elections. Now that he's lost Congress he is a lame duck prez and will most likely be impeached and dragged out in handcuffs.
 

matt404au

Gold Member
Apr 25, 2009
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Australia
#11
How is any of the stuff I posted an appropriate response? LGBT concerns are no longer a "humans rights" concerns in order to fight crime? Turning over protected land that houses part of the rainforest to corporate greed which produces 20 % of the entire globe's oxygen is how you stop murder?
Are LGBT in Brazil lacking rights that other humans have?

The rainforest issues are concerning for sure.
 
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Oct 30, 2017
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I just can’t trust mainstream media.
Brazil is supposed to be a modern developed country, but due to decades of leftists’ madness, it’s a shithole. SIXTY FUCKIN THOUSAND MURDERS in Brazil 2017, that is absolutely disgusting. Also, the leftist government corruption was crazy.
Brazilians know why they voted for him, they’re not stupid. They know what’s best for their country.
 
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Yes indeed. The hoards of transgendered people wanting to serve in the military are effected by this. (But to your point, you are right, it is a policy against LBGT, but lets not overstate the widespread impact of it)
Let’s not forget that there’s a legitimate concern that some transgenders were using the military for free trans surgery.
 

Zaru

Member
Oct 2, 2012
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#16
My wife is Brazilian, lived there for 2 years... This is exactly what the country needs right now. A strong leader to crush corruption and criminality. When I was there, more people were dying there per day by gunshot than in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.
They had shot a police helicopter down just before I flew out and boiled a reporter to death in a large metal drum, over fire in a Favela.
It's undeniable that Brazil has serious problems with crime and corruption that need to be solved, but people like Bolsonaro tend to end up bringing in their own rampant corruption along with further destruction of the environment and erosion of minority rights.

Sadly it seems that country doesn't have any viable politicians on any side of the spectrum so they're gonna be fucked either way.
 
Mar 6, 2018
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Pretty much what I know about this guy is REEEEEE hates him, so usually a good opinion to have is opposite of theirs.
I just can’t trust mainstream media.
From what I understand it’s a little more dangerous than that. This guy sounds a little radical. I don’t think this is just simply a “right wing guy gets bad rap from leftists” situation.
Cry "Nazi" and "racist" and "misogynist" enough times, and people stop listening. And then you end up with the genuine thing, because nobody believes you anymore.

 
Likes: sahlberg
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Cry "Nazi" and "racist" and "misogynist" enough times, and people stop listening. And then you end up with the genuine thing, because nobody believes you anymore.

For some reason, I can’t watch the video. It’s says “video unavailable”.
Nevertheless, regarding the Brazilian President, I will not pay attention to anyone criticising him and doesn’t live in Brazil. I will only listen to the opinions of people who actually live Brazil and have first hand account of what is actually going on there and intimately know Brazilian politics. Anyone else will be getting the source from mainstream garbage media, hence the critique is already tainted.
 
Mar 6, 2018
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#21
lol. "we need to talk about X"

almost in the same league as "problematic" for annoying sjw tells
He does it, because it sells. It results in clicks. He still reaches a level of "I'm going to present everyone's opinion about this as fairly as possible before giving my own" that no television news can even come close to these days.
 

Bryank75

Gold Member
Jan 12, 2018
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Ireland
#22
It's undeniable that Brazil has serious problems with crime and corruption that need to be solved, but people like Bolsonaro tend to end up bringing in their own rampant corruption along with further destruction of the environment and erosion of minority rights.

Sadly it seems that country doesn't have any viable politicians on any side of the spectrum so they're gonna be fucked either way.
I'm not going to write him off before he even has a chance. Minority rights and forests cannot be a priority with the rampant murders, drug crime, corruption and economic issues that must come before them.
There must be an incentive for Brazil to maintain its forests...
 
Oct 30, 2017
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I mean, he’s called a fascist/Nazi, yet he is best pals with the Prime Minister of Israel, the Israel PM even flew all the way to Brazil to attend his inauguration.

He’s a fascist but he wants to give every Brazilian a gun. Yeah, this totally seems like something Hitler would do.

Mainstream media is garbage. I just can’t take them seriously.
 
Oct 30, 2017
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I'm not going to write him off before he even has a chance. Minority rights and forests cannot be a priority with the rampant murders, drug crime, corruption and economic issues that must come before them.
There must be an incentive for Brazil to maintain its forests...
60,000 people murdered in a year and people are talking about the environmental rights.
 
Dec 22, 2010
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#26
Nevertheless, regarding the Brazilian President, I will not pay attention to anyone criticising him and doesn’t live in Brazil. I will only listen to the opinions of people who actually live Brazil and have first hand account of what is actually going on there and intimately know Brazilian politics. Anyone else will be getting the source from mainstream garbage media, hence the critique is already tainted.
You know what you're right. Let's make it so all the non-Americans here who support Trump shouldn't have their opinions respected. They don't need to be posting about a country they don't live in.
 
Jul 8, 2013
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#27
I've seen some of these reports in the international media, and I felt there was a lot of misinformation. I wish the international media fact-checked things a bit better. Like, just some examples:

- How can the government be pushing "crony capitalism" if the person in charge of Petrobras (state oil company) is criticizing monopolies and talking about opening the market? (https://g1.globo.com/economia/notic...-toma-posse-na-presidencia-da-petrobras.ghtml)
- Again, how can the government be pushing "crony capitalism" if the Economy minister hit the nail on the head in his first speech? Brazil should strive for more entrepreneurship, less taxes and move towards a market economy instead of the central development strategy that has been used since the military dictatorship. The recent left-wing govs didn't change much regarding this by the way. They were doubling down on it as well, with their "national champion" companies who benefited from political favors, which is de facto crony capitalism.
- How is the removal of government contractors that are basically appointed by political interests a bad thing? The people that entered via tests and due process cannot be removed from office, you know, like our law says. So they are only removing people that were there appointed for political interests. Since most governments before this were left-wing, it makes sense to try to minimize the risk of internal sabotage.
- Why "Folha de S.Paulo" is a trusted source? Their agenda was too crystal clear this election. They are the ones that created fake news about Bolsonaro's candidacy spreading fake news via WhatsApp with zero evidence to support it. Zero. Nada. The reporter that reported on it used a contract offered to another candidate as the basis for her piece.
- If Bolsonaro starts removing rights from LGBT people, I'm completely against it. However, what's been done at the moment is just unifying a part of the ministry that was accounted for minorities under one umbrella, which is in part because Bolsonaro promised to reduce the government size.

I could go on, and to be honest I even agree with some of the criticisms. For example:
- I dislike the choice for Foreign Relations because there is too much talk of "globalism" in his texts and first speech, I don't think Brazil's big enough to demand things in these kinds of scenarios, and what has worked best in my view was always a more neutral approach to things in our history
- Yeah... the woman in charge of Human Rights seems like a very unstable person and not very bright. I don't see her lasting at all, and if she lasts, I can't see much of good coming from the Ministry under her. People are already ridiculing her, deservedly so.
- Bolsonaro says what comes to his mind, and of course has a lot of conservative values that I'm not aligned with.

And in general, people need to understand, our left-wing parties weren't doing much. Our options in the second turn of the election were between the certainty of "more of the very corrupt same" and "small probably corrupt uncertainty", people chose uncertainty for a reason. And the fact that our left-wing is condemning his government even before it starts seems to be based on fear. Fear that in this country where "good enough" policy has always been practiced, that if an opposing party makes more than that they won't leave power so soon.
 
Jul 16, 2017
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#30
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/...itary-actually-spend-on-transgender-soldiers/

Albeit a minuscule cost in the grand scheme of things but a cost nonetheless.
That's not a receipt for your comment , you built your argument around the silly notion that trans people are only joining the military for the surgery. Your article does not back that.

But let's entertain this .. so 0.017% of the military budget is spent on surgery. That's what .. $8.4M..

Let's just cut Trump's trips to mar-a-lago that cost the taxpayer so far over $18M.
 
Likes: Madonis

N0c

Neo Member
Sep 28, 2018
8
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#31
I've seen some of these reports in the international media, and I felt there was a lot of misinformation. I wish the international media fact-checked things a bit better. Like, just some examples:

- How can the government be pushing "crony capitalism" if the person in charge of Petrobras (state oil company) is criticizing monopolies and talking about opening the market? (https://g1.globo.com/economia/notic...-toma-posse-na-presidencia-da-petrobras.ghtml)
- Again, how can the government be pushing "crony capitalism" if the Economy minister hit the nail on the head in his first speech? Brazil should strive for more entrepreneurship, less taxes and move towards a market economy instead of the central development strategy that has been used since the military dictatorship. The recent left-wing govs didn't change much regarding this by the way. They were doubling down on it as well, with their "national champion" companies who benefited from political favors, which is de facto crony capitalism.
- How is the removal of government contractors that are basically appointed by political interests a bad thing? The people that entered via tests and due process cannot be removed from office, you know, like our law says. So they are only removing people that were there appointed for political interests. Since most governments before this were left-wing, it makes sense to try to minimize the risk of internal sabotage.
- Why "Folha de S.Paulo" is a trusted source? Their agenda was too crystal clear this election. They are the ones that created fake news about Bolsonaro's candidacy spreading fake news via WhatsApp with zero evidence to support it. Zero. Nada. The reporter that reported on it used a contract offered to another candidate as the basis for her piece.
- If Bolsonaro starts removing rights from LGBT people, I'm completely against it. However, what's been done at the moment is just unifying a part of the ministry that was accounted for minorities under one umbrella, which is in part because Bolsonaro promised to reduce the government size.

I could go on, and to be honest I even agree with some of the criticisms. For example:
- I dislike the choice for Foreign Relations because there is too much talk of "globalism" in his texts and first speech, I don't think Brazil's big enough to demand things in these kinds of scenarios, and what has worked best in my view was always a more neutral approach to things in our history
- Yeah... the woman in charge of Human Rights seems like a very unstable person and not very bright. I don't see her lasting at all, and if she lasts, I can't see much of good coming from the Ministry under her. People are already ridiculing her, deservedly so.
- Bolsonaro says what comes to his mind, and of course has a lot of conservative values that I'm not aligned with.

And in general, people need to understand, our left-wing parties weren't doing much. Our options in the second turn of the election were between the certainty of "more of the very corrupt same" and "small probably corrupt uncertainty", people chose uncertainty for a reason. And the fact that our left-wing is condemning his government even before it starts seems to be based on fear. Fear that in this country where "good enough" policy has always been practiced, that if an opposing party makes more than that they won't leave power so soon.
Thank you,
So much misinformantion that is staggering,
 
Oct 30, 2017
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#32
You know what you're right. Let's make it so all the non-Americans here who support Trump shouldn't have their opinions respected. They don't need to be posting about a country they don't live in.
That’s entirely up to you. If you think some dude living in America, never been to Brazil, has absolutely no ties Brazil whatsoever can become an expert and well informed in Brazilian politics just by reading articles from Google, then that’s cool.

Like I said, I personally can’t take that persons opinion serious, especially when making such an extraordinary claim. At the very least, post Brazilian news outlet. It’s like getting French politics information from Singapore.
 
Nov 13, 2016
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#33
I don't agree with many of his plans, mostly related to the forests and natives, seemingly endagering their own land and culture for a few quick bucks, but the people of Brazil apparently wanted this, so who am I to judge?
 
Oct 30, 2017
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#34
That's not a receipt for your comment , you built your argument around the silly notion that trans people are only joining the military for the surgery. Your article does not back that.

But let's entertain this .. so 0.017% of the military budget is spent on surgery. That's what .. $8.4M..

Let's just cut Trump's trips to mar-a-lago that cost the taxpayer so far over $18M.
I never said trans join military ONLY for free surgery. Probably poor wording on my part. But yes, there is a cost to trans surgery.

I like how you just dismissed 8.4m. It’s this attitude why the debt keeps on rising. Minuscule increments every time make a difference. 1m here increase here, 1m increase there, it’s just 1m, it’s nothing, taxpayers will pay, there’s enough money. Just awful.
 
Dec 22, 2010
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#36
I've seen some of these reports in the international media, and I felt there was a lot of misinformation. I wish the international media fact-checked things a bit better.

I could go on, and to be honest I even agree with some of the criticisms. For example:
- I dislike the choice for Foreign Relations because there is too much talk of "globalism" in his texts and first speech, I don't think Brazil's big enough to demand things in these kinds of scenarios, and what has worked best in my view was always a more neutral approach to things in our history
- Yeah... the woman in charge of Human Rights seems like a very unstable person and not very bright. I don't see her lasting at all, and if she lasts, I can't see much of good coming from the Ministry under her. People are already ridiculing her, deservedly so.
- Bolsonaro says what comes to his mind, and of course has a lot of conservative values that I'm not aligned with.

And in general, people need to understand, our left-wing parties weren't doing much. Our options in the second turn of the election were between the certainty of "more of the very corrupt same" and "small probably corrupt uncertainty", people chose uncertainty for a reason. And the fact that our left-wing is condemning his government even before it starts seems to be based on fear. Fear that in this country where "good enough" policy has always been practiced, that if an opposing party makes more than that they won't leave power so soon.
Thanks for your response. I'd like to say that first off, criticism of Bolsonaro isn't an everything or nothing kind of approach. One can still support Bolsonaro's hard attitude against crime and corruption but still raise an eyebrow at some of the other things he is doing. It's my hope that Bolsonaro does manage to accomplish some of the more noble goals he set out for himself such as making Brazil a safe place for her people and combating corruption. I don't think any rational person wants him to fail on those fronts but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be put through a magnifying glass. He absolutely should as the next 4 years are incredibly crucial.

- How can the government be pushing "crony capitalism" if the person in charge of Petrobras (state oil company) is criticizing monopolies and talking about opening the market? (https://g1.globo.com/economia/notic...-toma-posse-na-presidencia-da-petrobras.ghtml)
- Again, how can the government be pushing "crony capitalism" if the Economy minister hit the nail on the head in his first speech? Brazil should strive for more entrepreneurship, less taxes and move towards a market economy instead of the central development strategy that has been used since the military dictatorship. The recent left-wing govs didn't change much regarding this by the way. They were doubling down on it as well, with their "national champion" companies who benefited from political favors, which is de facto crony capitalism.
Those are obviously great things and I'm happy for Brazil. Regardless, there is a huge conflict of interests between the agricultural sector and them being put in charge of what to do with obstacles they directly benefit from the removal of. It's like putting oil industries in charge of determining environmental regulations or the fishing industry being put in charge of determining what is overfishing. Brazil should seek to provide for her people and navigate to economic prosperity but are these really the ones you want to lead the charge? It's not all all concerning to you that Bolsonaro who ran against corruption would make such a questionable move during his first week in office?

How is the removal of government contractors that are basically appointed by political interests a bad thing? The people that entered via tests and due process cannot be removed from office, you know, like our law says. So they are only removing people that were there appointed for political interests. Since most governments before this were left-wing, it makes sense to try to minimize the risk of internal sabotage.
Yes, your constitution made sure that Bolsonaro could not also go after elected officials. However, what is concerning is that contractors must pass an ideological test to be reinstated lest they be socialists or communists. Bolsonaro is quite the far-right figure, who even in the article lumps issues with the previous center-right politician in charge. From my experience those on the far-left and far-right are really bad at differentiating between moderates, centrists and other extremists. It becomes a game of George Bush's "You are either with us or you are with the terrorists." How much are you willing to gamble on Bolsonaro bucking that trend as he seeks to take out political opposition and dissenters? Is it reasonable to believe it will stop at what we deem reasonable or just hopeful?


- Why "Folha de S.Paulo" is a trusted source? Their agenda was too crystal clear this election. They are the ones that created fake news about Bolsonaro's candidacy spreading fake news via WhatsApp with zero evidence to support it. Zero. Nada. The reporter that reported on it used a contract offered to another candidate as the basis for her piece.
I think a healthy skepticism of the media is necessary. Regardless, whatsapp themselves admitted to banning over 100,00 Brazilian accounts during the election. Something fishy was definitely going on but it's hard to say exactly who was pulling the strings.


If Bolsonaro starts removing rights from LGBT people, I'm completely against it. However, what's been done at the moment is just unifying a part of the ministry that was accounted for minorities under one umbrella, which is in part because Bolsonaro promised to reduce the government size.
Not an unreasonable move in and of itself but you have to remember who is making this move. This is the same politician who admitted he'd rather have a dead son than a gay son. I think it's perfectly rational to be completely skeptical of moves made like this. Believe me, I'd rather have egg on my face than yours.

- Bolsonaro says what comes to his mind, and of course has a lot of conservative values that I'm not aligned with.
I don't accept this rational. If Bolsonaro said some of the things he said about blacks or gays but replaces those terms with Christians he would have never been elected. Never. People don't care about these kinds of comments until they're in the crossfire. I hope you never have to come under one but with a fascist figure like Bolsonaro who fetishizes a military dictatorship and just came into power, it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

I'd want nothing more to be hilariously, embarrassingly wrong about the guy in every conceivable way. Brazil is a great country and her people deserve better. I just hope in the case that Bolsonaro goes too far democratic and peaceful methods can stop or remove him from power.
 
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Jan 26, 2018
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The big problem for the majority of the population is regarding the pension funds and whatever he's going to do with the 3 pillars.

Safety is a given. Brazil will improve in safety, by the same classic methods that put out the fire in places like NY.

Huge step in oppression reduces dramatically the violence and creates the idea of respect for the public forces. Fine, but the real deal is somewhere else.

Most of the population doesn't want our public health care to go away, but to it to properly work as intended (as it is mirrored on the British), and education to receive bigger funds.

Corruption and scandals, selling useless state companies should be something that should have been done years ago. Fine, good point that
But what about what the taxes cover? What about people? The LGBT rights, for example? Bad way to start.

Lots of brainless people think throwing away social-worker rights is the way to go, but there is a difference between reducing uneeded taxes that destroy entrepreneurship and fucking the worker right in the ass for legal (and ethical) rights like maternity (and paternity) license.

Here in Brazil, we are still in the first stage for the ones for Bolsonaro. There is this thing with idolization, very like Maga, but the next chapters are due, and this first nail will not help Bolsonaro
 
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Likes: Bryank75
Oct 30, 2017
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#38
I've seen some of these reports in the international media, and I felt there was a lot of misinformation. I wish the international media fact-checked things a bit better. Like, just some examples:

- How can the government be pushing "crony capitalism" if the person in charge of Petrobras (state oil company) is criticizing monopolies and talking about opening the market? (https://g1.globo.com/economia/notic...-toma-posse-na-presidencia-da-petrobras.ghtml)
- Again, how can the government be pushing "crony capitalism" if the Economy minister hit the nail on the head in his first speech? Brazil should strive for more entrepreneurship, less taxes and move towards a market economy instead of the central development strategy that has been used since the military dictatorship. The recent left-wing govs didn't change much regarding this by the way. They were doubling down on it as well, with their "national champion" companies who benefited from political favors, which is de facto crony capitalism.
- How is the removal of government contractors that are basically appointed by political interests a bad thing? The people that entered via tests and due process cannot be removed from office, you know, like our law says. So they are only removing people that were there appointed for political interests. Since most governments before this were left-wing, it makes sense to try to minimize the risk of internal sabotage.
- Why "Folha de S.Paulo" is a trusted source? Their agenda was too crystal clear this election. They are the ones that created fake news about Bolsonaro's candidacy spreading fake news via WhatsApp with zero evidence to support it. Zero. Nada. The reporter that reported on it used a contract offered to another candidate as the basis for her piece.
- If Bolsonaro starts removing rights from LGBT people, I'm completely against it. However, what's been done at the moment is just unifying a part of the ministry that was accounted for minorities under one umbrella, which is in part because Bolsonaro promised to reduce the government size.

I could go on, and to be honest I even agree with some of the criticisms. For example:
- I dislike the choice for Foreign Relations because there is too much talk of "globalism" in his texts and first speech, I don't think Brazil's big enough to demand things in these kinds of scenarios, and what has worked best in my view was always a more neutral approach to things in our history
- Yeah... the woman in charge of Human Rights seems like a very unstable person and not very bright. I don't see her lasting at all, and if she lasts, I can't see much of good coming from the Ministry under her. People are already ridiculing her, deservedly so.
- Bolsonaro says what comes to his mind, and of course has a lot of conservative values that I'm not aligned with.

And in general, people need to understand, our left-wing parties weren't doing much. Our options in the second turn of the election were between the certainty of "more of the very corrupt same" and "small probably corrupt uncertainty", people chose uncertainty for a reason. And the fact that our left-wing is condemning his government even before it starts seems to be based on fear. Fear that in this country where "good enough" policy has always been practiced, that if an opposing party makes more than that they won't leave power so soon.
Thank you. Clearly you live in Brazil.
 

N0c

Neo Member
Sep 28, 2018
8
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#39
Cry "Nazi" and "racist" and "misogynist" enough times, and people stop listening. And then you end up with the genuine thing, because nobody believes you anymore.

Jesus Christ, what video is it? What a lazy youtuber.

Just some of the things he said ( my english is bad sorry in advance)
1:50 This was edited to make him a racist, he even go to justice for the full version of the interview but the broadcaster informs that it no longer has. from that day forward he records with the cell phone all the interviews he does.

https://telepadi.folha.uol.com.br/bolsonaro-processa-marcelo-tas-negando-ser-racista-e-homofobico/
http://g1.globo.com/politica/notici...ntra-bolsonaro-por-falas-sobre-preta-gil.html
Ao analisar o caso, o procurador-geral da República, Rodrigo Janot, registrou que a emissora não disponibilizou a íntegra da gravação da entrevista, mas somente sua versão editada. Por isso, não foi possível verificar se a declaração de Bolsonaro se relacionava à pergunta feita.

2:02 This was a joke criticizing the fact that these "quilombos" are sustained by the taxpayer's money.


2:29/2:48/2:58 He has always had a problem with homosexuality, there is no denying it, although he has recently apologized for several times that he was unkind or homophobic.


3:28 Out of context , he attempted (poorly) to explain the wage gap between men and women


3:42 Holy Shit this guy is deep, this was a joke, a fucking joke!


3:48 The context was, there was a notorious case in which a minor (16 year old) kidnapped a girl, kept her hostage for a week, raped her repeatedly and then cut her head off! Bolsonaro was saying that this kid should be judged as an adult for how serious the crime was and that Brazil should consider decreasing the age from 18 to 16 in order to condemn these kind of criminals and that Brazil should consider chemical castration for rapists since it is a heinous crime. That lady was protecting the rapist saying that he was a minor and didn't know what he was doing and then went on to say that BOLSONARO WAS A RAPIST! How would you react if you were fighting crimes such as rape and then someone called you a rapist? That is the context of what happened there.

https://super.abril.com.br/mundo-es...ente-champinha-e-o-crime-que-chocou-o-brasil/

Im gonna end here, i could go on but like i said before, my english is bad.
 
Oct 21, 2018
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#40
My wife is Brazilian, lived there for 2 years... This is exactly what the country needs right now. A strong leader to crush corruption and criminality.
Lots of dictators and authoritarian leaders have gained power with similar promises. Either they don't achieve them, engaging in hypocritical behavior, or they simply carry them out at a horrible cost.

I just can’t trust mainstream media.
Brazil is supposed to be a modern developed country, but due to decades of leftists’ madness, it’s a shithole. SIXTY FUCKIN THOUSAND MURDERS in Brazil 2017, that is absolutely disgusting. Also, the leftist government corruption was crazy.
Are you arguing that Brazil did not have any problems with crime or corruption before? That's silly. Brazil did not suddenly begin to exist when Lula was elected, to put it lightly, nor did any of its problems.

- How can the government be pushing "crony capitalism" if the person in charge of Petrobras (state oil company) is criticizing monopolies and talking about opening the market? (https://g1.globo.com/economia/notic...-toma-posse-na-presidencia-da-petrobras.ghtml)
You can say that, sure, but there's a difference between action and rhetoric. Opening up the market doesn't automatically mean there will be no "crony capitalism" either, as the example of Russia, among other countries, makes clear. It's possible to open up markets and still favor certain capitalists in the process.

- Again, how can the government be pushing "crony capitalism" if the Economy minister hit the nail on the head in his first speech? Brazil should strive for more entrepreneurship, less taxes and move towards a market economy instead of the central development strategy that has been used since the military dictatorship.
Once again, I don't think we should judge economists based on their speeches. It should be about results and concrete initiatives. Even then, it's not guaranteed that "less taxes" will be a good thing (the effects of those bills, just like in the United States, should be scrutinized and not taken at face value). Regarding development, it's a fact that Brazil has developed a stronger industrial base than various Latin American nations. In that sense, such a strategy served a valid purpose. It's not necessarily wise to prioritize the export of raw materials or natural resources and abandon the other sources of income.

- How is the removal of government contractors that are basically appointed by political interests a bad thing? The people that entered via tests and due process cannot be removed from office, you know, like our law says. So they are only removing people that were there appointed for political interests. Since most governments before this were left-wing, it makes sense to try to minimize the risk of internal sabotage.
If all they are doing is replacing political appointments with other political appointments, just from a different party, then it might just be a case of hypocrisy, rather than a positive or negative per se.

- If Bolsonaro starts removing rights from LGBT people, I'm completely against it. However, what's been done at the moment is just unifying a part of the ministry that was accounted for minorities under one umbrella, which is in part because Bolsonaro promised to reduce the government size.
"Reducing the size of government" is an excuse that can be used in order to favor certain sectors and harm others. That's happened before in various countries, so this should be followed with close scrutiny.

And in general, people need to understand, our left-wing parties weren't doing much. Our options in the second turn of the election were between the certainty of "more of the very corrupt same" and "small probably corrupt uncertainty", people chose uncertainty for a reason..
In other words, it's a leap of faith. There is a risk. Perhaps Brazil will benefit, but perhaps it won't.
 
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Mar 6, 2018
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1:50 This was edited to make him a racist, he even go to justice for the full version of the interview but the broadcaster informs that it no longer has. from that day forward he records with the cell phone all the interviews he does.
If that is the argument, I'll extend the benefit of doubt, because I've definitely seen that before. What does he claim he actually said about the idea of his son dating a black woman?

I can also see how people would vote for removal of government corruption and crime over LGBT issues, if given the choice between the two, as explained in the video I posted.

But ignoring those issues for a moment, has he also publicly changed his stance on dictatorship and the killing of those opposed to the direction of the government, because that's one of the strongest allegations against him, and I don't think you talked about that one.
 

N0c

Neo Member
Sep 28, 2018
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#42
If that is the argument, I'll extend the benefit of doubt, because I've definitely seen that before. What does he claim he actually said about the idea of his son dating a black woman?
Sorry i don't remember, but he cleary don't have a problem with black people, i don't like this kind of argument but the black guy you always sees with him is his "brother" or like they call each other, and his wife is mulata (daughter of a white mother with a black father)

I can also see how people would vote for removal of government corruption and crime over LGBT issues, if given the choice between the two, as explained in the video I posted.
He don't even touch in any issues with the LGBT community, like my brazilian friend told above he only merges parts of the ministry.

But ignoring those issues for a moment, has he also publicly changed his stance on dictatorship and the killing of those opposed to the direction of the government, because that's one of the strongest allegations against him, and
I do not like this radical speech employed by him long ago, he still uses some of it (during the impeachment vote of Dilma Roussef he reminded Colonel Brilhante Ustra, controversial figure of the military regime) he is more "lighter" on this subject now, but you have to understand that the counterpart Fernando Haddad of the Workers Party (responsible for the biggest corruption scandal in our history) also admires other dictators like Che, Hugo Chavez and in its plan of government existed even the social control of the media ( in other words censorship), the former President Dilma Roussef was a terrorist who participated in the terrorist group Var Palmares (Curiously when she was elected the press was not shocked by this fact). So our level of tolerance is somewhat broad for this kind of discourse.

I don't think you talked about that one.
Sorry, like I said my english sucks, because of this i only analyze the beginning of the video.
 
Jul 8, 2013
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#43
Those are obviously great things and I'm happy for Brazil. Regardless, there is a huge conflict of interests between the agricultural sector and them being put in charge of what to do with obstacles they directly benefit from the removal of. It's like putting oil industries in charge of determining environmental regulations or the fishing industry being put in charge of determining what is overfishing. Brazil should seek to provide for her people and navigate to economic prosperity but are these really the ones you want to lead the charge? It's not all all concerning to you that Bolsonaro who ran against corruption would make such a questionable move during his first week in office?
These signals they are sending to the market is making our stock market go crazy these last few days. If all the changes are going to go through congress and supreme court, we will see. I'm hopeful for the pension reform and the tax reform at least.

About Agriculture, we still have opposition, he will still have to dialogue with them in congress, if a subject is easy to capitalize negatively on, I don't see them passing as law with ease because PT (workers party) still has good numbers in congress.

Yes, your constitution made sure that Bolsonaro could not also go after elected officials. However, what is concerning is that contractors must pass an ideological test to be reinstated lest they be socialists or communists. Bolsonaro is quite the far-right figure, who even in the article lumps issues with the previous center-right politician in charge. From my experience those on the far-left and far-right are really bad at differentiating between moderates, centrists and other extremists. It becomes a game of George Bush's "You are either with us or you are with the terrorists." How much are you willing to gamble on Bolsonaro bucking that trend as he seeks to take out political opposition and dissenters? Is it reasonable to believe it will stop at what we deem reasonable or just hopeful?
We have two types of elected officials, the appointed ones and the selected ones, the ones that go through a merit test-based selection process have stability. What is surprising about the removal of the appointed ones is that all elections there is always at least one candidate that says they will remove them from office as soon they are elected or reduce the numbers, no one ever does it though. The fact that he did it regardless of the reasons probably is seen in positive light by the population. At least my friends were very surprised. And I see that people commented above that he will replace with his appointed officials. Yes, but the message that the government sent yesterday is basically that they will start small and then increase the numbers as necessary, the opposition should check when it happens.

About Temer, the politician that was in charge before, he was the vice-president of Dilma Roussef from the Workers party, the one that suffered a "coup" due to fiscal responsibility crimes. And MDB, his party, doesn't seem to have a very defined political leaning, there's a bit of everything in there. They will go where they can keep their privileges so to speak. His policies were center-right because they needed to be after the crisis from Dilma's government.

His popularity was very low, and he is also being investigated for corruption, so removing association with him is probably a good move. Brazilian politics is a depressive subject in general. :messenger_grinning_sweat:

I think a healthy skepticism of the media is necessary. Regardless, whatsapp themselves admitted to banning over 100,00 Brazilian accounts during the election. Something fishy was definitely going on but it's hard to say exactly who was pulling the strings.
My problem is not with investigating the issue. My problem with it is getting "this issue might exist" and blow it out of proportion to hit a candidate. It's anti-productive. It's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy where media says there is fake news out there while also creating fake news and hitting their own credibility in the process.

Another thing that made me perplexed were some journalists trying to hide their joy when Bolsonaro was stabbed, that day I told my brother that Bolsonaro was basically already elected, common people still have some empathy left in them.

You can say that, sure, but there's a difference between action and rhetoric. Opening up the market doesn't automatically mean there will be no "crony capitalism" either, as the example of Russia, among other countries, makes clear. It's possible to open up markets and still favor certain capitalists in the process.
Yes, there is. My point is that the rethoric is not being properly reported for some of the intended reforms. Government under Bolsonaro is running for only 3 days, and it's already the end of society for some. It's very easy to keep the narrative of a global agenda when international media misreports things. Self-fulfilling prophecy.™

Are you arguing that Brazil did not have any problems with crime or corruption before? That's silly. Brazil did not suddenly begin to exist when Lula was elected, to put it lightly, nor did any of its problems.
His point has a bit of hyperbole of course. But before Lula we had PSDB for 8 years which is basically the Social Democratic Party, so, center-left. They are more center, center-right now, but I'm pretty sure Fernando Henrique Cardoso considers himself a leftie, even if moderate. So, 22 years of left-leaning leaders in power?
 
Aug 26, 2018
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#45
- If Bolsonaro starts removing rights from LGBT people, I'm completely against it. However, what's been done at the moment is just unifying a part of the ministry that was accounted for minorities under one umbrella, which is in part because Bolsonaro promised to reduce the government size.
This is true.

Also, the indigenist policy discussion is not as simple as it seems. People often think all you need to do it's to give them lands and you are done.

Wrong.

https://veja.abril.com.br/blog/noblat/o-deficit-de-soberania-da-amazonia/

Rough english translation:

The Venezuelan crisis, which dumped 50,000 refugees in Roraima at once, aggravating the state's social crisis, exposes the disconcertment of Brazilian indigenist policy, which links leftist rhetoric to the geostrategic interests of international capital.

General Augusto Heleno, who was the military commander of the Amazon, at the time of the demarcation of the Raposa Serra do Sol reserve in 2008, warned of the economic and social damages caused by the expulsion of rice farmers, whose production accounted for 8% of the state's GDP.

Expelled, they became slums in Boa Vista and the local economy became impoverished. They were more than 300 families, besides their employees, almost all of indigenous ethnicity, but without the label of "aldeados". The reserve's 1.7 million hectares - almost the state of Sergipe - were left with 20,000 Indians.

To the other 500 thousand inhabitants, the remaining 25% of the area of the State that escaped the demarcations remained.

"I warned about the lack of discretion of that ideological demarcation. Economists warned that the expulsion of rice farmers was a socially and economically disastrous measure, "recalls the general.

And he adds: "Today, the situation created by the Bolivarian dictatorship of Maduro could be circumvented by the expansion of the rice culture and the consequent employment of a large part of the foreign labor that arrived in Roraima. Unfortunately, there comes more urban improvisation and disorder. "

The misconceptions of Brazilian indigenist politics can be measured in numbers: the 600,000 Indians, from various tribes, own 13% of the national territory, while the other 200 million Brazilians inhabit only 11%. The data are from IBGE.

Moreover, it is precisely in these indigenous lands, whose extension they barely cover, are some of the largest reserves of ores on the planet, outside the reach of the Brazilian State, but not of international economic groups, which, through NGOs, establish a direct line with the tribes, as if they were independent nations.

Army commander General Villas-Boas speaks of "sovereignty deficits" in the region. He was, as military commander of the Amazon, surprised by the presence of the king of Norway, Harald V, who, without any communication to the Brazilian authorities, was a guest of the Yanomami between April 22 and 25, 2013. He only communicated his visit a week after leave the country.

There are more than 100,000 NGOs, mostly foreign, in the Amazon. They dictate the indigenist policy, alongside organs of the Catholic left, exercising full control over Funai.

One of them, the Norwegian Rainforest Foundation Norway, promoted the visit of the king. The country's ambassador, Aud Marit Wiig, defends foreign funding to indigenous communities. And he emphasizes that the people of the Sami ethnic group, supported by funds of their country, already have their own parliament today. From there to a seat in the UN is a step. Rainforest advocates expanding reserves.

And the Indigenous Missionary Council (CIMI) of the Catholic Church finances and incites Indian invasions of productive farms, some of which have been titled for more than a century, according to a complaint filed by a congressional council in 2015, chaired by Rep. Alceu Moreira. According to him, "this crime is a laboratory crime and done to many hands".

Human solidarity with the Indians does not extend to the Northeast region. Drought victims have exactly zero NGOs to serve them. There, there are no minerals: only human, without rights.
Also I'v seen this one:


Misleading title. Bolsonaro said that indigenous people are CURRENTLY TREATED like animals in a zoo. He intends to integrate them with society. To give them basic needs like electricity, medicine, etc ( Yes, they want that ) by develop the region.

The media will always try to paint him as monster. If that was the case, he wouldn't have been elected. He was constantly hammered during that time, from inside and outside, but people saw through it.

His finance minister is the most important member of his team and is the whole reason many people, like me, decided to vote for him.

He's not perfect and may not live to the expectations, but we are hoping he does.
 
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Jul 7, 2018
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Brazil’s new right-wing President Jair Bolsonaro removed concerns regarding the LGBT community from being considered by a new human rights ministry hours after his inauguration, part of a sweeping set of executive orders targeting some minority groups. Bolsonaro stripped LGBT concerns from the ministry and named no other federal agency to consider such issues.

The former military officer and right-wing politician made incendiary comments about race and sexual orientation during his campaign, saying in 2011 that he would be “incapable of loving a homosexual son.” Dozens of gay couples rushed to get marriedin the country last month before Bolsonaro took office out of fear that he would try to limit same-sex marriage. The newly appointed human rights minister, Damares Alves, is an ultraconservative evangelical pastor who claims diversity policies have “threatened” the Brazilian family, AP noted.
Bolsonaro is also expected to announce the closing of an agency with the Education Ministry that worked to promote diversity in public schools and universities, according to a report from the Folha de S.Paulo newspaper. Bolsonaro, known as the “Trump of the Tropics,” was congratulated by the U.S. president after he was sworn into office. “The U.S.A. is with you!” Trump wrote on Twitter. Bolsonaro thanked Trump for his "words of encouragement." "Together, under God’s protection, we shall bring prosperity and progress to our people!" Bolsonaro tweeted.

Diversity, inclusiveness and LGBT issues have been used as a cudgel to hit and destroy the traditional family and its values, so I am in for their abolishment from the public discourse as some where more than happy to see the abolishment from the public discourse of church.
 

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
Feb 5, 2008
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#48
Diversity, inclusiveness and LGBT issues have been used as a cudgel to hit and destroy the traditional family and its values, so I am in for their abolishment from the public discourse as some where more than happy to see the abolishment from the public discourse of church.
Gays back at it killing the nuclear family and family values. :messenger_face_screaming:
 
Jan 31, 2018
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#50
How is any of the stuff I posted an appropriate response? LGBT concerns are no longer a "humans rights" concerns in order to fight crime?
I ran into rhetoric something akin who cares that a lot of people are dying due to gunfights? At least LGBT~ has pride parades.
Actually sometimes it feels like tons of leftists want other people to sacrifice for good of other people.

It is better be a honest evil, than a hypocrite.
 
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