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Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 1 - Sundays on AMC

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BPRD said:
I wonder where they decide to make the new meth lab... anyone have any guesses?

After talking with my friend about how dumb skyler was for giving most of Walts money away to that idiot Ted, and laundering money through a car wash. IT HIT ME!

The meth lab could be under the car wash! what are your ideas on possible locations?
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Step 1: Buy new RV
Step 2: Park it inside the carwash
Step 3: Give it the deluxe wax

This seems the most reasonable course of action.
 
This was the first episode where I had more heart for skylar then walt....First time ever that I feel the need to root against him.

Speevy said:
I was watching this with a friend, and this friend said the Lydia actress is terrible.

Thoughts?
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She's still a fresh character...give it time.
 
Yeah I'm not sure I like Walt's sudden transformation into the devil incarnate. Of course Crawl Space might have broken him. He still seemed a lot more like a normal person in the last two episodes of the season. Maybe with Gus dead he didn't have to pretend anymore.
 
metalslimer said:
Yeah I'm not sure I like Walt's sudden transformation into the devil incarnate. Of course Crawl Space might have broken him. He still seemed a lot more like a normal person in the last two episodes of the season. Maybe with Gus dead he didn't have to pretend anymore.
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it's just one of those things we have to accept because it's the final season and they needed to get things moving.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed the odd massive jump though, lol. Like he was always painted as the bad guy but now I feel like he could cut Walt Jrs face off and then wear it to breakfast while he forces skyler to eat with him and look at his face. And it wouldn't be out of place at all.
 
metalslimer said:
Yeah I'm not sure I like Walt's sudden transformation into the devil incarnate. Of course Crawl Space might have broken him. He still seemed a lot more like a normal person in the last two episodes of the season. Maybe with Gus dead he didn't have to pretend anymore.
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This whole devil incarnate thing is what popped into my head. Just the way that scene was framed and lit, Walt was essentially a shadow the whole time and I felt uncomfortable watching as he whispered to Skyler everything was going to be okay. Powerful stuff really. One of the reasons I love the show.
 
Like I don't even remember Tony being as menacing as Walt was in bed. It was absolutely amazing acting, but they're writing him to the point where no one can like him which I never thought was the point of the show. He's basically Amirox's version of the character now.
 
metalslimer said:
Like I don't even remember Tony being as menacing as Walt was in bed. It was absolutely amazing acting, but they're writing him to the point where no one can like him which I never thought was the point of the show. He's basically Amirox's version of the character now.
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I've seen him that way for multiple seasons now.
 
metalslimer said:
Yeah I'm not sure I like Walt's sudden transformation into the devil incarnate. Of course Crawl Space might have broken him. He still seemed a lot more like a normal person in the last two episodes of the season. Maybe with Gus dead he didn't have to pretend anymore.
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It has been pretty rapid, but I haven't found it as jarring as some others. While Gus was around Walt was frustrated and powerless, but he's been pretty cold about killing and manipulating people to get ahead for a while now. With Gus gone his ego, which we've seen plenty of before, is out in full force so he's been asserting his dominance which kind of makes him seem more sinister/evil.
 
CygnusXS said:
The timeline is basically:

Gets suspended > gets shot > in hospital > in bed > rocks > trips to Pollos Hermanos > crackpot theories presented to his former boss (appears to still be on suspension) > anonymous death threat > gus blows up > hank's back on the job!

There just feels like there's a step missing. Where's the "welcome back" scene? Admitting to seriously beating a suspect without provocation seems like it should carry a little more long term gravity to it, and as you may have gleaned from my last post, I like The Wire and I am used to realistic logistics being presented.
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They were minerals, dude.
 
Speevy said:
I was watching this with a friend, and this friend said the Lydia actress is terrible.

Thoughts?
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I don't think the actress for Lydia is bad, but I'm not fully on board with the writing of her character just yet. Her very first scene at the diner where she's getting all flustered and crazy and almost having a panic attack from simply ordering her meal was terrible imo.

Love the idea of her character, just wish the writing was more subtle rather than beating us over the head that she's paranoid/nervous/obsessive control freak or whatever. I guess that's the downside of having less episodes, there's not quite as much time to slowly build characters up.
 
metalslimer said:
Like I don't even remember Tony being as menacing as Walt was in bed. It was absolutely amazing acting, but they're writing him to the point where no one can like him which I never thought was the point of the show. He's basically Amirox's version of the character now.
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Lots of people still like him. Amirox's argument has always been fairly ludicrous.
 
Puddles said:
Lots of people still like him. Amirox's argument has always been fairly ludicrous.
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I still like him. I still believe he's only done what is necessary to survive up to this point after getting in way over his head time after time after time. I don't blame Skyler for feeling the way she does though, and she only knows about Gus. Imagine if she knew about Crazy 8 or the 2 guys that tried to kill Jesse. Walt's kill count is creeping up.
 
_Isaac said:
So what was the point of the minerals anyway?
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It makes sense that Hank would choose to occupy his time with an extreme focus on his hobbies. What are his hobbies? Brewing beer, shooting douchebags and harassing Mexicans? Not easy to do when you're stuck in bed.

Had to give him something I guess.
 
metalslimer said:
Like I don't even remember Tony being as menacing as Walt was in bed. It was absolutely amazing acting, but they're writing him to the point where no one can like him which I never thought was the point of the show. He's basically Amirox's version of the character now.
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I like him as a character. I think he's been awesome this season without anyone to put him in his place. Besides, in the flash forward at the beginning of the first episode he seemed kind of shaken up and certainly a lot more "human" than he does now.
 
metalslimer said:
Like I don't even remember Tony being as menacing as Walt was in bed. It was absolutely amazing acting, but they're writing him to the point where no one can like him which I never thought was the point of the show. He's basically Amirox's version of the character now.
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but that was the point of the show, its just that some viewers saw him as Scarface way earlier than planned.
 
saunderez said:
I still like him. I still believe he's only done what is necessary to survive up to this point after getting in way over his head time after time after time.
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He could have left this world multiple times; he could have taken a job with the Grey Matter people, swallowed his pride and provided for his family AND had his cancer treatment paid for.

Are you saying the roads he took were 'more necessary' than the road which would have meant true safety for his family, which would have meant he wouldn't have to be supplying a ridiculously dangerously potent version of a drug to the streets, which would have meant a future for his kids without the downside of this dangerous life he chose? He has to take responsibility for what he has done, which is basically a series of horrific crimes that would land him in jail for life and then some.

There were many many occasions Walt had to end this, to get out of the world. He chose to ignore his families wellbeing and do what was best for his ego.

If you needed any more evidence of this, just look at that dinner scene in Season 4. Hank was steadily going off the trail of Walt, and was ready to give credit for the blue meth to someone else. Walt couldn't stomach someone else getting credit for his formula... so much so that he was willing to once again throw him and his entire family back in danger just so his ego could remain stroked. He led Hank bank on the trail because his ego could not stomach anyone else receiving accolades for his work. His work on methamphetamine.

That should say it all
 
Amir0x said:
He could have left this world multiple times; he could have taken a job with the Grey Matter people, swallowed his pride and provided for his family AND had his cancer treatment paid for.

Are you saying the roads he took were 'more necessary' than the road which would have meant true safety for his family, which would have meant he wouldn't have to be supplying a ridiculously dangerously potent version of a drug to the streets, which would have meant a future for his kids without the downside of this dangerous life he chose?

There were many many occasions Walt had to end this, to get out of the world. He chose to ignore his families wellbeing and do what was best for his ego.

If you needed any more evidence of this, just look at that dinner scene in Season 4. Hank was steadily going off the trail of Walt, and was ready to give credit for the blue meth to someone else. Walt couldn't stomach someone else getting credit for his formula... so much so that he was willing to once again throw him and his entire family back in danger just so his ego could remain stroked. He led Hank bank on the trail because his ego could not stomach anyone else receiving accolades for his work. His work on methamphetamine.

That should say it all
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I still don't see him as a bad person. In the same situation I can't rule out making the same (stupid) decisions. Fear and greed are powerful motivators. Quitting now would be going backwards, the time to quit was before Skyler gave all his money to Ted and that was an event totally outside of his control (though Skyler did the right thing, they couldn't risk the IRS). I fully expect everything he's done to come and bite him on the ass though, this is not a story of redemption. Walt isn't seeking redemption at all.
 
I don't think Walter's change has been that out there. Walt is just at a point now where he's operating without fear. Death has been right in front of him for the entire series and for the first time death doesn't feel impending. I don't think he'll be like this the rest of the season, as soon as there are signs of consequence he'll return to being the scared little man he really is. For right now he's just overindulging in power he's never felt before.
 
jred2k said:
I don't think Walter's change has been that out there. Walt is just at a point now where he's operating without fear. Death has been right in front of him for the entire series and for the first time death doesn't feel impending. I don't think he'll be like this the rest of the season, as soon as there are signs of consequence he'll return to being the scared little man he really is. For right now he's just overindulging in power he's never felt before.
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I think if Walt knew about Madrigal he'd be singing a different tune right now. He thinks Gus was running the show and nobody cares what happened to him. He's going to get a cold dose of reality very soon.
 
Even the unscrupulous lawyer shows more scruples and sensibility than Walt. When guys like Saul Goodman and Mike are telling you that you're a ticking time bomb, it's probably time for some introspection.
 
jred2k said:
I don't think Walter's change has been that out there. Walt is just at a point now where he's operating without fear. Death has been right in front of him for the entire series and for the first time death doesn't feel impending. I don't think he'll be like this the rest of the season, as soon as there are signs of consequence he'll return to being the scared little man he really is. For right now he's just overindulging in power he's never felt before.
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I could see him crashing a bit but I don't think he'll ever go back to being consumed by fear and panic and fumbling all over like last season. I think he gained some good confidence.
 
Puddles said:
Lots of people still like him. Amirox's argument has always been fairly ludicrous.
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Hahaha.

Anyways.

Walt hasn't changed. He's still the same guy he always was. He's just tested all the boundaries of his world and found them lacking, and now he thinks he's basically god. And he thinks that Skylar is getting off on this just as much as he is, too.
 
saunderez said:
I still don't see him as a bad person. In the same situation I can't rule out making the same decisions. Fear and greed are powerful motivators. Quitting now would be going backwards, the time to quit was before Skyler gave all his money to Ted and that was an event totally outside of his control (though Skyler did the right thing, they couldn't risk the IRS). I fully expect everything he's done to come and bite him on the ass though, this is not a story of redemption. Walt isn't seeking redemption at all.
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He poisoned a child, sanderez. He poisoned a child with something that could have easily killed him. You would have made the same choice? Really? Somehow I think you're probably a better person than that since I can't imagine you're, ya know, evil fucking incarnate.

But putting that aside for a moment, he had made tons of seriously bad and disgusting choices before Skyler gave the money away to Ted. Again, ALL of this could have been avoided if he made the legitimately good person decision to take the job at Grey Matter, put aside his ego, and go honest. He couldn't do that. EVERY action afterwards - from murder to manipulation to drug manufacturing - is not justifiable. The only way such a thing is ever justifiable is if someone has no choice, self-defense or something like that. He had choices. Many, many choices. Time and time again when an out provided itself, he went the bad road. He continued to break bad. And if Walt's presence currently doesn't tell you just how far gone, from the sickly tyrannical power trip behavior with Skyler now to the poisoning of a child to the megalomania, I'm not sure what would. Would he need to kill Walt Jr. for you to think he is a 'bad person'?
 
Infinite Justice said:
but that was the point of the show, its just that some viewers saw him as Scarface way earlier than planned.
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A classic case of writers missing the forest for the trees.

By Season 3, it should have been somewhat clear that the whole idea of taking a regular guy and turning him into Scarface wasn't going to work. They just had a way-too-excellent character in Walter White. By Season 4, it should have been blatantly obvious. People still liked him. He was still a fairly innocuous shade of gray.

Instead of re-focusing on what made the show work, Gilligan seems to be doubling down on the Scarface angle in Season 5, only it doesn't seem earned. Skyler reacts to him like he's Scarface, but his actions haven't been Scarface-like at all.

As I said, it's a cheap trick to some extent.
 
Amir0x said:
He poisoned a child, sanderez. He poisoned a child with something that could have easily killed him. You would have made the same choice? Really? Somehow I think you're probably a better person than that since I can't imagine you're, ya know, evil fucking incarnate.
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Honestly...if the alternative was Gus killing me, my wife and my 2 children I'd definitely have to consider it. It's not like there was nothing on the line when Walt did that. He was a dead man walking and so was all of his family. He's not a good person but I don't see him as evil incarnate like you do. He did the sums in his head and the result was Brock dying was less of a tragedy to him than himself and his entire family dying.
 
saunderez said:
Honestly...if the alternative was Gus killing me, my wife and my 2 children I'd definitely have to consider it. It's not like there was nothing on the line when Walt did that. He was a dead man walking and so was all of his family.
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wow

so this poor child, who deserved none of this, should be allowed to be used as a killing post because of the horrific choices Walter White made so that he could save his own family? That makes the action right somehow? Who cares about Brock's family, if they die! As long as Walt survives!

Walt made his bed and he had to sleep in it. A normal, good man who still had some redeemable qualities would have went to the police and entered Witness Protection program. People can and have survived in those programs for their entire lives safely without the entire mob ever finding them. But Walt again could not do this. He had to take the 'bad' route, because that's what this show has always been about. It's in the title. Walt, and many others in this show, continue to break bad.

Edit: And the important note is he never had to be at that point either. He could have ended this WAY before he even met Gus!
 
Amir0x said:
wow

so this poor child, who deserved none of this, should be allowed to be used as a killing post because of the horrific choices Walter White made so that he could save his own family? That makes the action right somehow? Who cares about Brock's family, if they die! As long as Walt survives!

Walt made his bed and he had to sleep in it. A normal, good man who still had some redeemable qualities would have went to the police and entered Witness Protection program. People can and have survived in those programs for their entire lives safely without the entire mob ever finding them. But Walt again could not do this. He had to take the 'bad' route, because that's what this show has always been about. It's in the title. Walt, and many others in this show, continue to break bad.
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Walt did nothing wrong look at him in these past episodes. Him and Skyler have a loving relationship as you can tell. Never did anything wrong.
 
Amir0x said:
wow

so this poor child, who deserved none of this, should be allowed to be used as a killing post because of the horrific choices Walter White made so that he could save his own family? That makes the action right somehow? Who cares about Brock's family, if they die! As long as Walt survives!

Walt made his bed and he had to sleep in it. A normal, good man who still had some redeemable qualities would have went to the police and entered Witness Protection program. People can and have survived in those programs for their entire lives safely without the entire mob ever finding them. But Walt again could not do this. He had to take the 'bad' route, because that's what this show has always been about. It's in the title. Walt, and many others in this show, continue to break bad.
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I never said anything Walt did was RIGHT. Just that it was necessary to ensure his survival. NOTHING Walt has done has been right, from the very first second he decided to cook meth.
 
saunderez said:
I never said anything Walt did was RIGHT. Just that it was necessary to ensure his survival. NOTHING Walt has done has been right, from the very first second he decided to cook meth.
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Right, so we're agreeing everything he is doing is wrong.

Now, how wrong does someone have to be before you acknowledge they're probably no longer a good person? Since poisoning a child was not nearly wrong enough, apparently. I'm trying to establish what the line is for you.
 
Amir0x said:
Right, so we're agreeing everything he is doing is wrong.

Now, how wrong does someone have to be before you acknowledge they're probably no longer a good person? Since poisoning a child was not nearly wrong enough, apparently. I'm trying to establish what the line is for you.
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Why does everything have to be black and white?
 
saunderez said:
Why does everything have to be black and white?
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Not everything has to be black and white. It just so happens that Walter White's current state of character is black and white. Nothing he has done for a long time has any quality relating to being good. At what point do we just acknowledge that maybe that's because he no longer is any good?
 
Amir0x said:
Not everything has to be black and white. It just so happens that Walter White's current state of character is black and white. Nothing he has done for a long time has any quality relating to being good. At what point do we just acknowledge that maybe that's because he no longer is any good?
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When I can no longer justify his actions based on the situation he's in and the threat to his family. Poisoning Brock was a dick move but his entire family was on the line. When he poisons a kid for fun I'll consider him a bad person OK.
 
Puddles said:
Indeed. I believe that he still genuinely loves Skyler. He just has a rather odd way of showing it at this point.
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I can agree that he does still love and care for Skylar. But it is also clear his number one motivation for all this is his power driven ego, not his love for his family.



At first I thought Walt's cancer going away was a way to say look, he's ok. He no longer needs to sell meth, but guess what. He still is. Hence he's a bad man. However, I now think that's not true. When (speculating here...) we find out this season that Walt's cancer is back, and has been back for awhile, people I'm sure will again use it to say he's not bad. He did what he needed to do to protect his family. BS. That doesn't change the fact Walt is completely power hungry now. Saul was right. They should walk away, but it isn't the money that keeps Walt in the game no matter what he says. It's just an excuse.
 
saunderez said:
When I can no longer justify his actions based on the situation. Poisoning Brock was a dick move but his entire family was on the line. When he poisons a kid for fun I'll consider him a bad person OK.
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what if instead of 'fun' we put 'ego' there. still not a bad person?
 
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