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News Brexit: Deal 'essentially impossible' after PM-Merkel call - UK PM office

llien

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(confusingly, it's not Merkel, but Macron on this photo)

After presenting the new proposals to Brussels, government sources hoped the UK might be able to enter an intense 10-day period of negotiations almost immediately, with the aim of coming to a final agreement at an EU summit on 17 October.
The EU pledged to examine them carefully, but a number of senior figures, including Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, warned the proposals did not form the basis for deeper negotiations - even if they believed a deal could still be done.
French President Emanuel Macron said the EU would decide at the end of the week whether a new deal was possible.
But after the phone call on Tuesday morning, the No 10 source said it had been a "clarifying moment", adding: "Talks in Brussels are close to breaking down, despite the fact that the UK has moved a long way."
Under Mr Johnson's proposals, which he calls a "broad landing zone" for a new deal with the EU:
  • Northern Ireland would leave the EU's customs union alongside the rest of the UK, at the start of 2021
  • But Northern Ireland would continue to apply EU legislation relating to agricultural and other products, if the Northern Ireland Assembly approves
  • This arrangement could, in theory, continue indefinitely, but the consent of Northern Ireland's politicians would have to be sought every four years
  • Customs checks on goods traded between the UK and EU would be "decentralised", with paperwork submitted electronically and only a "very small number" of physical checks
  • These checks should take place away from the border itself, at business premises or at "other points in the supply chain"
The source said the UK was not willing to move away from the principle of providing a consent mechanism for Northern Ireland or the plan for leaving the customs union, and if the EU did not accept those principles, "that will be that" and the plan moving forward would be an "obstructive" strategy towards Brussels.

They also accused the EU of being "willing to torpedo the Good Friday agreement" - the peace process agreed in Northern Ireland in the 1990s - by refusing to accept Mr Johnson's proposals, arguing the plan is key to respecting the so-called "principle of consent".
But Mr Varadkar has warned the Johnson plan could actually undermine that principle by giving one party in Northern Ireland a veto over what happens to the country as a whole.

EU diplomats have told Adam Fleming there has been "zero progress" in the talks and in some areas they believe things are going backwards.
The UK's chief negotiator, David Frost, is still due to meet EU negotiators in Brussels today, but another European official said he had so little room for manoeuvre, it called into question whether the UK was serious about getting a deal.

On Monday night, the Spectator published texts from a Downing Street source, who claimed if the deal "dies in the next few days, then it won't be revived".

The government has not denied the briefing, which also said Mr Johnson "will do all sorts of things to scupper a delay" to leaving the EU.
Earlier, the BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg said there was a growing expectation in government Brexit talks would fail before the week was out.

BBC
 
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Gashtronomy

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EU using Northern Ireland and Eire as a political talking point.

There is one way to fix all of this...

Eire leaves the EU.
 
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azz0r

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Ireland has saved us from Brexit. If only the leave campaign had used the money to fact check what would happen if we leave instead of spending it on fancy lies to stick on the sides of buses.
 
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llien

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EU doesn't want their chattel breaking out of the pen. They'll do everything in their power to muddy this and I don't see why they would behave otherwise (except, you know, on the grounds of decency and ethics, but it's EU so 🤷‍♀️ )
People who side with this guy:

are talking about grounds of decency and ethics, and "mudding this" oh heavens...

Remind me, when was the last time that EU changed its position on Brexit.
 

Gashtronomy

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LLien, Post the picture where he dons a superman costume and cycled to parliament, while his peers drove expensive cars, to promote climate change and being green.

No?

Boris a toffy-nosed elite. He admits as much. I respect him for being honest in his bullshit and for being a little bit eccentric. Being eccentric is part of being British. He's the most likable PM we've had in literally decades.

Thatcher was a bitch, Major was a gray, pea-eating nobody, Blair was a snake and two-faced tory-lite war-monger, Brown was a womble, Cameron was a cunt and May was Thatcher without the looks, charm or determination.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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People who side with this guy:

are talking about grounds of decency and ethics, and "mudding this" oh heavens...

Remind me, when was the last time that EU changed its position on Brexit.
False equivalence. I'm not in the UK and have no dog in this fight, but the EU's ethical behavior does not hinge on Boris Johnson's ethical behavior. They are two completely separate concerns.

Did EU take this stance when Johnson gained power, or did they play these same games when Theresa May was in power? The correct answer to this question indicates that the EU's behavior does not hinge on Boris.
 

MilkyJoe

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Jan 29, 2014
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A loss is a loss.
Well, when you are saving a billion a month by not being in that club, you'll soon claw it back.


But, after today, we are really going to see how far the MP collaborators will go to stop us leaving.

First thing you will see is a call for a new law to be created that demands a second referendum
 

Kazza

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LLien, Post the picture where he dons a superman costume and cycled to parliament, while his peers drove expensive cars, to promote climate change and being green.

No?

Boris a toffy-nosed elite. He admits as much. I respect him for being honest in his bullshit and for being a little bit eccentric. Being eccentric is part of being British. He's the most likable PM we've had in literally decades.

Thatcher was a bitch, Major was a gray, pea-eating nobody, Blair was a snake and two-faced tory-lite war-monger, Brown was a womble, Cameron was a cunt and May was Thatcher without the looks, charm or determination.
I see a lot anti-Brexit trot out this picture as if it's some sick burn, but as you said it's just an expression of a certain kind of British eccentricity (as well as self-deprecating humour). A lot of Europeans don't seem to get it, especially certain types of uptight Germans and snooty French.
 
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Kazza

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haven't we suffered enough.
From the report:

“The UK economy is already around £60bn smaller than it would have been without a vote to leave the European Union,” said Christian Schulz, chief UK economist at the bank Citi, which helped compile the report.
How would they know what growth would have been in the event of a remain vote? Have they got an inter-dimensional machine allowing them to travel to an alternate reality where the vote went the other way? Of course not, just the usually baseless predictions from the usual economists. Why do you still listen to their soothsaying after the pack of bullshit they sold during the referendum turned out to be so wrong?
 

danielberg

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Jun 20, 2018
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I think now they do :/
nope lol there was recent video of eu cunts laughing about their mouth piece judges in the uk who gave them a victory stating "and with that the uk is in the eu for the next 5 years as well"
 

azz0r

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From the report:



How would they know what growth would have been in the event of a remain vote? Have they got an inter-dimensional machine allowing them to travel to an alternate reality where the vote went the other way?
Financial projections? Are you really questioning if financial projections are a thing?
 

GamingKaiju

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Oct 24, 2014
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I think Boris’s proposals were quite fair but to see the EU just dismiss them has made me realise all the talk of “acting in good faith” was just BS from the EU. It’s clear they have fully weaponised the Irish boarder to push us into extending over and over again because whilst we are still in the EU we have no powers until we formally revoke article 50 giving them full reign to do as they please at a eye watering cost of £1B a month to us.

And people say it’s democratic lol between the hardcore remain contingent in parliament and Brussels constantly rejecting any attempt to replace the backstop we are going to stay in Brexit limbo FOREVER!! At this rate which is only going to hurt us more because it prolongs the uncertainty.
 

nani17

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Why don't us Irish just leave with you. Get tugboats pull our nations together and create a new nation called New New Ireland. Now I know some of you want to keep the England name but the yanks will love the new name. Or we can go with Great New New Ireland 😁
 
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DeepEnigma

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Why don't us Irish just leave with you. Get tugboats pull our nations together and create a new nation called New New Ireland. Now I know some of you want to keep the England name but the yanks will love the new name. Or we can go with Great New New Ireland 😁
I’ll drink to that.
 
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llien

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I don't get why financial aspect matters at this point, has anyone ever honestly argued UK will get better finances... oh wait, never mind.
Still funny people argue there was no negative impact.

The way it looks at the moment:

1) No way BJ can strike a deal (no honest intention to)
2) Unleashed "who's fault it is" game
3) Hopes to ride nationalism wave on the upcoming elections

Now, #3 is an inherent part of democracy in my books, I won't buy "people are lied to" - oh well, as long it is legal.

I think it is very important for the party that steers UK out of this situation to have a decisive majority in the parliament.
Which elections are likely to deliver, with victorious BJ.

And after that happens, I see these options:

1) BJ winning and then:
1.a) EU chickening out - please don't, it would look so pathetic and would also mean you were fucking liars
1.b) UK hard brexiting - from democracy perspective, perfect, as it would be a hidden "hard brexit or not" referendum. You get what you've voted for
2) Remain leaning parties winning (quite unlikely) and striking a deal (EU will likely agree on time constraining the backstop part, Macron indicated readiness for that back in May's days)
3) "No majority for any available option" results, uh oh, please, dear Brits, don't!
 

MilkyJoe

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The BBC is preparing us, or they are not...... I still don't think Brexit is going to happen, or a deal will be made that ties us to the EU and the UK will spin it as a victory and just move on
The food shortage is an urban myth, busted dozens of times by the port authority, but the project fear supporting media turn a blind eye to this.
 
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Turkey Master Baster

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I fear that Northern Ireland and the Republic are at loggerheads about this whole thing which may hurt the Good Friday Agreement all because the EU won't accept an otherwise reasonable solution.

I don't like the DUP at all but what they have said seems to conclude that Ireland are on the EUs side rather than NIs regarding a solution between the two.
 
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Kazza

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The food shortage is an urban myth, busted dozens of times by the port authority, but the project fear supporting media turn a blind eye to this.
There are so many "Project Fear 2.0" myths going on. Here's the guy who used to run Dover port, and also the current boss of the port of Calais saying a no deal Brexit won't be a problem:




It's seems that the whole food/medicine shortage thing are just remainer unicorns.
 

Kazza

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This tweet is from a formerly respected and distinguished philosopher:



Brexit has done strange things to people. I wonder what the pre-2016 version of him would think of the 2019 version, a twitter handle with a spider and various nonsensical hashtags, desperately urging a foreign leader not to do any deals with the Prime Minister of his own country...
 

DunDunDunpachi

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This tweet is from a formerly respected and distinguished philosopher:



Brexit has done strange things to people. I wonder what the pre-2016 version of him would think of the 2019 version, a twitter handle with a spider and various nonsensical hashtags, desperately urging a foreign leader not to do any deals with the Prime Minister of his own country...
When people claim to be on the brink of winning -- just one final push, and don't give an inch even though we've been conceding miles -- is how you know they've lost.
 

Kazza

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When people claim to be on the brink of winning -- just one final push, and don't give an inch even though we've been conceding miles -- is how you know they've lost.
Their certainly are lots of worried people on the remain side today. I wonder how many of the FBPE/spider crowd will return to sanity after brexit, and how many will become the Japanese soldiers that Nick Clegg infamously described pre-referendum, continuing to fight on long after the war has been lost,?



I love that clip. I wonder how many of those dons and students of Oxford who applauded and laughed then now have FBPE hashtag as part of their twitter name? They were just so arrogant, so sure that they were going to win. :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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