Brexit: Facts vs Fear, with Stephen Fry

Apr 3, 2018
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#1

Stephen makes a very good point about how Leave campaigners accuse the other side of doing exactly what they do: stoking up fears.

Remain campaign talked about the irreversible damage that will be done to the UK economy, that has been backed up by the latest projections and studies. This was then deemed "Project Fear" by the Leave campaign, completely oblivious to the fact that they have been stoking up fears of immigrants for decades now.

And in regards to immigrants, studies have shown that EU migrants put far more into the economy then what they take, and that they play no role in wage stagnation. Instead, the poor position that many British people find themselves in is because of the incredibly wealthy and the poor social mobility in the UK. But the wealthy and the elite find that fact to be........inconvenient, so immigrants are blamed for all of the UK's problems and the media/establishment have been cultivating the myth of the immigrant boogeyman.

That myth is quickly dispelled however, when you actually meet one. Turns out that not only are they normal people, but actually the least powerful members of our society, despite giving so much.

Is it a surprise then, that the British people voted overwhelmingly to remain in areas where there higher levels of immigration, and voted Leave in areas with the least levels of immigration?

We all know the strategy for the very likely scenario that Brexit is a failure..... continue to blame those bloody immigrants.
 
Apr 3, 2018
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#3
Wasn't Birmingham one the highest leave voter's and the City with one of the highest immigration levels.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...migration-fears-were-paradoxical-but-decisive

Here you can see the areas with highest vote for Remain and Leave, with the corresponding levels of net migration, and you can see that the areas with highest vote for leave had very little immigration, with places like Castle Point, in which 71% voted to leave, having a net migration of only 81 for that year.

Now in regards to Birmingham, 50.4% voted leave, but Birmingham is a huge city, second biggest in the UK, and when the vote is broken down, the same pattern emerges. (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/eu-referendum-results-your-area-11536368)

Besides, the point isn't that areas with higher immigration will automatically vote to Remain, just that it is the general trend.
 
Mar 23, 2018
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#6

Stephen makes a very good point about how Leave campaigners accuse the other side of doing exactly what they do: stoking up fears.

Remain campaign talked about the irreversible damage that will be done to the UK economy, that has been backed up by the latest projections and studies. This was then deemed "Project Fear" by the Leave campaign, completely oblivious to the fact that they have been stoking up fears of immigrants for decades now.

And in regards to immigrants, studies have shown that EU migrants put far more into the economy then what they take, and that they play no role in wage stagnation. Instead, the poor position that many British people find themselves in is because of the incredibly wealthy and the poor social mobility in the UK. But the wealthy and the elite find that fact to be........inconvenient, so immigrants are blamed for all of the UK's problems and the media/establishment have been cultivating the myth of the immigrant boogeyman.

That myth is quickly dispelled however, when you actually meet one. Turns out that not only are they normal people, but actually the least powerful members of our society, despite giving so much.

Is it a surprise then, that the British people voted overwhelmingly to remain in areas where there higher levels of immigration, and voted Leave in areas with the least levels of immigration?

We all know the strategy for the very likely scenario that Brexit is a failure..... continue to blame those bloody immigrants.
He does exactly what he doesn't like in his video. What a hypocrit.

His whole turkey part was painful to watch.

Heavily agenda driven video by him. Downplaying the issue's in europe like it was something non existent and even changing some of it into a positive.

What a clown.
 
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Apr 3, 2018
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#7
He does exactly what he doesn't like in his video. What a hypocrit.

His whole turkey part was painful to watch.

Heavily agenda driven video by him. Downplaying the issue's in europe like it was something non existent and even changing some of it into a positive.

What a clown.
Which bits exactly?

What did he get wrong about Turkey? They were never going to be able to join the EU.
 
Nov 3, 2013
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#8
All I hear about is Turkey, what about the EU army, was that all lies? What about your boy Guy Verhofstadt screaming for members to give up their sovereignty?

At least the major European countries have leaders with strong approval ratings and their people aren't currently rioting in the streets... Oh wait
 
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Apr 3, 2018
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#9
All I here about is Turkey, what about the EU army, was that all lies? What about your boy Guy Verhofstadt screaming for members to give up their sovereignty?

At least the major European countries have leaders with strong approval ratings and their people aren't currently rioting in the streets... Oh wait
You know how kept vetoing an EU army?
 
Apr 3, 2018
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#12
Us, I would rather leave and let them do it, than stay and be the cunt ruining the party for everyone else. They just can't afford the drinks alone.
What's wrong with an EU army? Especially when you have an aggressive neighbour to the East?

That's the thing I don't get about Trump. He berates Europe for relying on US military power, but then get's upset when they want to create their own army.
 
Nov 3, 2013
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#13
What's wrong with an EU army? Especially when you have an aggressive neighbour to the East?

That's the thing I don't get about Trump. He berates Europe for relying on US military power, but then get's upset when they want to create their own army.
It's another step to an United States of Europe. I'm not opposed to the rest of Europe forming an army (even if I truly believe they should just do their bit for NATO) I just don't believe we need or should be part of it.
 
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Apr 3, 2018
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#14
It's another step to an United States of Europe. I'm not opposed to the rest of Europe forming an army (even if I truly believe they should just do their bit for NATO) I just don't believe we need or should be part of it.
We're kinda going off topic here.

You have a problem with the EU forming an army, which may or may not happen. What other issues did you have with the video?

The crux of the video is that we were lead to believe that immigrants from the EU were the cause of our problems, which, it turns out, was false. The real reason your wages are stagnating and the quality of your life is dipping was because of the 2008 financial crash. The establishment politicians, decided to manufacture fear against immigrants instead of bringing anyone who caused the crash to justice. And we fell for it.
 
Jul 16, 2017
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#15
He does exactly what he doesn't like in his video. What a hypocrit.

His whole turkey part was painful to watch.

Heavily agenda driven video by him. Downplaying the issue's in europe like it was something non existent and even changing some of it into a positive.

What a clown.
What did he get wrong about Turkey, the whole video is accurate.
 
Mar 23, 2018
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#16
What did he get wrong about Turkey, the whole video is accurate.
Turkey was on a fast track to join the EU in the last couple of years by moving along there checklist of issue's in record pace. They where totally on track to join, Merkel even tried to push them on a fast track forwards because of refugee issue's. The question was no longer if, it was when. Which backfired through erdogan going full dictatorship in his country and tried to do everything in his power to push influence for his needed votes by calling everybody that didn't allow his crap to happen a nazi.

With his new found power position asylumseekers he no longer needed influence from EU. They could now just pay him.

After the failed east that joined Europe, that did nothing else then make lower working class villages work camps full of eastern Europeans that work for absolutely nothing and sleep with 8 men in a house. Work for half the salary's because "paid in poland" while losing your job because you actaully had a family and to take care of and live in the country they exploit.

Turkey joining was a real danger for low class workers any 3rd world country is. As people where already starting to form a anti EU stigma in that time everywhere around europe through it being a absolute horrible failed experiment for western populations.

It was far more likely turkey was going to join through all the shit EU did in that time then them not joining. It was not like EU would ever listen towards there populations anyway.

Him going back see some selective facts and states a fact that totally bends your perception is exactly what he does with those 2 cars at the start. Fry is a massive hypocrit which isn't surprising they usually are exactly that.

And then the fun part comes, like i already said in another topic how always the big money earners know exactly how low income society actually works.

Stephen Fry net worth: Stephen Fry is an English comedian, actor, writer, activist, and presenter who has a net worth of$35 million
I bet he totally knows what goes on with those people ( LOL ), and the following even proofs more he has zero clue about lower income situations.

Him mentioning
Cheaper mobile phone cost, cheaper sewage of bathing beaches, fighting tax evasion, banning spam e-mails and major breakthrough through science are sure things those people care about. Not really.
Spoiler fry nobody gives a fak about those things if you can't pay your electric bill or lose your job towards a polish guy that cost his boss half the money as he doesn't get paid fair wages and still works because its better then his 3rd world country wage.

Then his immigrants and city's that vote for leave. Obviously people see what happens around them. the world is not functioning in a bubble like they only see what happens in there streets. I know fry accepts that those low income people are just cattle for his own needs, but honestly if you talk to them they also have a opinion and can actually critically think most of the time just as much as those rich people sitting in there sea of money.

Anyway back on topic.

If other villages/city's are drastically reshaping you learn and want to prevent that from happening in your own village.

IF a massive refugee building gets build in a village next towards you and you see it causes massive issue's there. And you vote for leave in your village. then this Fry guy would just say. but there where 0 refugee's in your village, yea it means jack shit other then driving agenda's and bending information as to what you want it to be.

The dude is insanely selective, manipulates data to be anything meaningful in his own vision and does exact what you aspect from some rich guy that probably profits himself heavily from being in the EU and never had to deal ( or not recently with the changing markets, other competing populations and lower incomes )

Sorry but, lying is bad and i agree with that and sure there will be things they clearly lied about. However what this guy does is some next level information bending i have ever seen to drive his agenda.

This fry guy is a clown.
 
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Apr 3, 2018
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#18
Turkey was on a fast track to join the EU in the last couple of years by moving along there checklist of issue's in record pace. They where totally on track to join, Merkel even tried to push them on a fast track forwards because of refugee issue's. The question was no longer if, it was when. Which backfired through erdogan going full dictatorship in his country and tried to do everything in his power to push influence for his needed votes by calling everybody that didn't allow his crap to happen a nazi.

With his new found power position asylumseekers he no longer needed influence from EU. They could not just pay him.

After the failed east that joined Europe, that did nothing else then make lower working class villages work camps full of eastern Europeans that work for absolutely nothing and sleep with 8 men in a house. Work for half the salary's because "paid in poland" while losing your job because you actaully had a family and to take care of and live in the country they exploit.

Turkey joining was a real danger for low class workers any 3rd world country is. As people where already starting to form a anti EU stigma in that time everywhere around europe through it being a absolute horrible failed experiment for western populations.

It was far more likely turkey was going to join through all the shit EU did in that time then them not joining. It was not like EU would ever listen towards there populations anyway.

Him going back see some selective facts and states a fact that totally bends your perception is exactly what he does with those 2 cars at the start. Fry is a massive hypocrit which isn't surprising they usually are exactly that.

And then the fun part comes, like i already said in another topic how always the big money earners know exactly how low income society actually works.



I bet he totally knows what goes on with those people ( LOL ), and the following even proofs more he has zero clue about lower income situations.

Him mentioning

Spoiler fry nobody gives a fak about those things if you can't pay your electric bill or lose your job towards a polish guy that cost his boss half the money as he doesn't get paid fair wages and still works because its better then his 3rd world country wage.

Then his immigrants and city's that vote for leave. Obviously people see what happens around them. the world is not functioning in a bubble like they only see what happens in there streets. I know fry accepts that those low income people are just cattle for his own needs, but honestly if you talk to them they also have a opinion and can actually critically think most of the time just as much as those rich people sitting in there sea of money.

Anyway back on topic.

If other villages/city's are drastically reshaping you learn and want to prevent that from happening in your own village.

IF a massive refugee building gets build in a village next towards you and you see it causes massive issue's there. And you vote for leave in your village. then this Fry guy would just say. but there where 0 refugee's in your village, yea it means jack shit other then driving agenda's and bending information as to what you want it to be.

The dude is insanely selective, manipulates data to be anything meaningful in his own vision and does exact what you aspect from some rich guy that probably profits himself heavily from being in the EU and never had to deal ( or not recently with the changing markets, populations and low incomes )

Then the things he does point out to empower his vision i have nothing against, like the straight up lies they push forwards about certain things. Which is bad indeed. But bending the reality to shape it into your own vision to drive agenda's is just as awful.

This fry guy is a clown.
Turkey was never going to be able to join the EU:

"EU rules are divided into 35 policy areas and in 10 years Turkey only managed to adopt the rules on one: science and research. In most other areas it has not even made a start. "

The rest of your preamble I didn't quite understand.

Why would you say that British people voted to remain in areas with higher levels of immigration?
 
Jul 16, 2017
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#19
Turkey was on a fast track to join the EU in the last couple of years by moving along there checklist of issue's in record pace. They where totally on track to join, Merkel even tried to push them on a fast track forwards because of refugee issue's. The question was no longer if, it was when. Which backfired through erdogan going full dictatorship in his country and tried to do everything in his power to push influence for his needed votes by calling everybody that didn't allow his crap to happen a nazi.

With his new found power position asylumseekers he no longer needed influence from EU. They could now just pay him.

After the failed east that joined Europe, that did nothing else then make lower working class villages work camps full of eastern Europeans that work for absolutely nothing and sleep with 8 men in a house. Work for half the salary's because "paid in poland" while losing your job because you actaully had a family and to take care of and live in the country they exploit.

Turkey joining was a real danger for low class workers any 3rd world country is. As people where already starting to form a anti EU stigma in that time everywhere around europe through it being a absolute horrible failed experiment for western populations.

It was far more likely turkey was going to join through all the shit EU did in that time then them not joining. It was not like EU would ever listen towards there populations anyway.

Him going back see some selective facts and states a fact that totally bends your perception is exactly what he does with those 2 cars at the start. Fry is a massive hypocrit which isn't surprising they usually are exactly that.

And then the fun part comes, like i already said in another topic how always the big money earners know exactly how low income society actually works.



I bet he totally knows what goes on with those people ( LOL ), and the following even proofs more he has zero clue about lower income situations.

Him mentioning

Spoiler fry nobody gives a fak about those things if you can't pay your electric bill or lose your job towards a polish guy that cost his boss half the money as he doesn't get paid fair wages and still works because its better then his 3rd world country wage.

Then his immigrants and city's that vote for leave. Obviously people see what happens around them. the world is not functioning in a bubble like they only see what happens in there streets. I know fry accepts that those low income people are just cattle for his own needs, but honestly if you talk to them they also have a opinion and can actually critically think most of the time just as much as those rich people sitting in there sea of money.

Anyway back on topic.

If other villages/city's are drastically reshaping you learn and want to prevent that from happening in your own village.

IF a massive refugee building gets build in a village next towards you and you see it causes massive issue's there. And you vote for leave in your village. then this Fry guy would just say. but there where 0 refugee's in your village, yea it means jack shit other then driving agenda's and bending information as to what you want it to be.

The dude is insanely selective, manipulates data to be anything meaningful in his own vision and does exact what you aspect from some rich guy that probably profits himself heavily from being in the EU and never had to deal ( or not recently with the changing markets, other competing populations and lower incomes )

Sorry but, lying is bad and i agree with that and sure there will be things they clearly lied about. However what this guy does is some next level information bending i have ever seen to drive his agenda.

This fry guy is a clown.
Turkey have only cleared one hurdle since 1987 .. and there's 36 in total lol.

They won't be joining anytime soon so you can relax.

Youve not actually discredited anything Fry has said apart from make baseless claims you have zero stats for .
 
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