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|OT| British Election mega-thread - 12th December 2019 : Let's try again, again.

NickFire

Member
Mar 12, 2014
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Well, I went to bed with a 99% chance on the BBC that my constituency would be a gain for the conservatives. Woke up to the fact that my vote was one of a difference of 600 that kept us red. There was just one that went from red to blue in the region. My constituency is a weird make up. It has a strong pensioner base, but also a large vulnerable adult contingent as well as a middle spread from working class backgrounds. Happy we retained it overall.

Ultimately if this is what everyone has voted for then this is what we've got. It's a daming indictment of the Labour Party that their largest appeal was to social media university students, and they placed enormous reliance on lazy safe votes. I have nothing against Corbyn - frankly I care more about the party that's in charge and their pledges but he was never a strong voice, he was never a leader. I've never really cared about the personality in the Commons.

Another interesing point for me - and again, much more broad than this election - is how little the twitter/comments/social media scene is actually relevant or a pulse survey of reality. It's basically proved itself just a vanity distraction, a very public way of feeling involved by doing very little to effect change. The #youthquake was grossly overstated. There were bigger #youthquakes about Sainsburys in 2009 for the release of MW2.

Another bigger problem I thought we faced was the number of people who grew up in the 80's who abandoned their roots. We had to fight for everything back then. A lot of council estates were dog eat dog worlds, and the scams were being run by locals. But our parents fought to give us the best and by and large succeeded. A lot of us worked ourselves to a decent job, above our beginnings in most cases. And that's the saddest thing for me, because this group of people still voted Labour - people like me, in truth. But you know what? I'm not really in touch with the 'working class', I'm no longer a part of those daily struggles and I suspect many people irate at the result aren't either. You have to be big enough to hold your hands up and say, actually where I am now is probably as far away from 'traditional working class' as the elite 1% are to me. I voted with prejudice, based on 'anyone but tories' and the idealistic view that Labour is inherently better for society (I also supported the policies despite meaning I standed to lose in some scenario's). Basically what was indoctrinated to our generation in the North. When you have stronghold seats scraping through and becoming tiny marginals then you have real issues.

I have a few mates that voted Conservative in different constituencies and I'd never cut important people out of my life just because they have different priorities. Sure, those who vote conservative tend to benefit more on a personal economic level but the fallacy of selfish, self-serving deplorables is way over the top. It's as bad as the 'workshy, feckless, lazy' Tory rhetoric. I see this time and again, where people reduce tory voters to 'me, me, me'. Because they always attribute it to cash/wealth of the individual voting. These people are voting for their families and children and in this election are voting for their communities back. Taking a step back I actually think we've done this to ourselves. Denouncing everyone as racists, calling them thick and stupid is a trap it's easy to fall into when moral grandstanding - and I'm sure even the most well intentioned amongst us have done (I definitely have, through sheer frustration and because it's an easy jab).

I work in the NHS and the little lad story is likely to be true, last week in our ED we had 40 patients in various cupboards and corridors awaiting care. But the main reason? Because we get a lot of out of area patients who don;t want to use their local hospital because of our reputation. You look at hospitals now struggling to adapt to becoming businesses because of the PFI initiatives from Brown/Blair. Not every crime we're paying for can be boiled down to austerity simply. I'm really fucking bitter we're coming out the EU, and I have no idea what that means economically - for me personally. I'm a bit pissed off that we got a Tory majority in such an uncertain time instead of a hung parliament with the chance of a more balanced minority government. But you know what? We've had the referendum, we've now had two elections and it's clear that the majority of the country want this. They've bothered their arse to vote and while my feelings are this will be a disaster and I'm in no way wanting it to happen, this is where we are. There is no better teacher than history and experience if this goes tits up.

And after watching Johnson's speech, I think it was a very well measured speech. Of course, never trust the bastards especially cunts like Patel, Cummings and Raab. I think he's selfish, single minded and agenda driven but I actually think he might grasp the fragility of things. Jury's out. I don't have to like it or even make concerted efforts to support it, I can just watch from the sidelines and judge how they do now. The sooner Corbyn goes the better, but I still don't see a voice in the opposition that unites people. And until Labour sort that out, the country might be blue for some time.
Very reflective post and excellent contribution. For me personally, the bolded part is the most refreshing thing I have read today. I truly hope that the majority of people who have been playing those cards take a step back and actually reflect this time, whether in the UK, US, or any part of the EU. The soft civil wars being perpetuated by the media, echo chambers that used to be places of higher learning, and people grasping onto power need to stop.
 

monegames

Member
Sep 26, 2014
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Where does the impression that twitter is left come from?
Having no horses in the game I see two large echo chambers (inherent feature of the social media, as people see more of what they like), who knows which one is bigger on twitter?
 
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Joe T.

Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Montreal, Quebec
Where does the impression that twitter is left come from?
Having no horses in the game I see two large echo chambers (inherent feature of the social media, as people see more of what they like), who knows which one is bigger on twitter?
It is in the US, I can't speak to the platform as a whole. The situation seems even worse than Pew Research makes it sound to me because of the high number of activists, operatives or just plain trolls that exploit the platform to intentionally spread disinformation, which winds up polarizing regular members. It happens on the right as well as the left, of course, but obviously the more accounts taking part, the more people it'll influence.

 
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NickFire

Member
Mar 12, 2014
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"More likely to be democrat" could be 1%, could be 40%.

Trump alone has 55 million followers.
Bill Clinton's wife has 26 million.
I cannot believe for one second that you honestly doubt twitter is more left leaning than anything else. San Francisco based company. Trust and Safety counsel. Extra censorship for conservative views. Banning politcial ads to try appeasing the DNC (key word is try, we all know they just want Trump's ads banned).
 

Gashtronomy

Member
Apr 19, 2019
4,365
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Where does the impression that twitter is left come from?
Having no horses in the game I see two large echo chambers (inherent feature of the social media, as people see more of what they like), who knows which one is bigger on twitter?
I can probably guess which one is bigger from the dealings I have with people day-to-day. The other indicator is how and where Twitter and social media mentioned, by who, who champions it and what influence twitter has on which media outlets, games and films.
 

Zefah

Gold Member
Jan 7, 2007
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Great video. Thanks for sharing.

Well, I went to bed with a 99% chance on the BBC that my constituency would be a gain for the conservatives. Woke up to the fact that my vote was one of a difference of 600 that kept us red. There was just one that went from red to blue in the region. My constituency is a weird make up. It has a strong pensioner base, but also a large vulnerable adult contingent as well as a middle spread from working class backgrounds. Happy we retained it overall.

Ultimately if this is what everyone has voted for then this is what we've got. It's a daming indictment of the Labour Party that their largest appeal was to social media university students, and they placed enormous reliance on lazy safe votes. I have nothing against Corbyn - frankly I care more about the party that's in charge and their pledges but he was never a strong voice, he was never a leader. I've never really cared about the personality in the Commons.

Another interesing point for me - and again, much more broad than this election - is how little the twitter/comments/social media scene is actually relevant or a pulse survey of reality. It's basically proved itself just a vanity distraction, a very public way of feeling involved by doing very little to effect change. The #youthquake was grossly overstated. There were bigger #youthquakes about Sainsburys in 2009 for the release of MW2.

Another bigger problem I thought we faced was the number of people who grew up in the 80's who abandoned their roots. We had to fight for everything back then. A lot of council estates were dog eat dog worlds, and the scams were being run by locals. But our parents fought to give us the best and by and large succeeded. A lot of us worked ourselves to a decent job, above our beginnings in most cases. And that's the saddest thing for me, because this group of people still voted Labour - people like me, in truth. But you know what? I'm not really in touch with the 'working class', I'm no longer a part of those daily struggles and I suspect many people irate at the result aren't either. You have to be big enough to hold your hands up and say, actually where I am now is probably as far away from 'traditional working class' as the elite 1% are to me. I voted with prejudice, based on 'anyone but tories' and the idealistic view that Labour is inherently better for society (I also supported the policies despite meaning I standed to lose in some scenario's). Basically what was indoctrinated to our generation in the North. When you have stronghold seats scraping through and becoming tiny marginals then you have real issues.

I have a few mates that voted Conservative in different constituencies and I'd never cut important people out of my life just because they have different priorities. Sure, those who vote conservative tend to benefit more on a personal economic level but the fallacy of selfish, self-serving deplorables is way over the top. It's as bad as the 'workshy, feckless, lazy' Tory rhetoric. I see this time and again, where people reduce tory voters to 'me, me, me'. Because they always attribute it to cash/wealth of the individual voting. These people are voting for their families and children and in this election are voting for their communities back. Taking a step back I actually think we've done this to ourselves. Denouncing everyone as racists, calling them thick and stupid is a trap it's easy to fall into when moral grandstanding - and I'm sure even the most well intentioned amongst us have done (I definitely have, through sheer frustration and because it's an easy jab).

I work in the NHS and the little lad story is likely to be true, last week in our ED we had 40 patients in various cupboards and corridors awaiting care. But the main reason? Because we get a lot of out of area patients who don;t want to use their local hospital because of our reputation. You look at hospitals now struggling to adapt to becoming businesses because of the PFI initiatives from Brown/Blair. Not every crime we're paying for can be boiled down to austerity simply. I'm really fucking bitter we're coming out the EU, and I have no idea what that means economically - for me personally. I'm a bit pissed off that we got a Tory majority in such an uncertain time instead of a hung parliament with the chance of a more balanced minority government. But you know what? We've had the referendum, we've now had two elections and it's clear that the majority of the country want this. They've bothered their arse to vote and while my feelings are this will be a disaster and I'm in no way wanting it to happen, this is where we are. There is no better teacher than history and experience if this goes tits up.

And after watching Johnson's speech, I think it was a very well measured speech. Of course, never trust the bastards especially cunts like Patel, Cummings and Raab. I think he's selfish, single minded and agenda driven but I actually think he might grasp the fragility of things. Jury's out. I don't have to like it or even make concerted efforts to support it, I can just watch from the sidelines and judge how they do now. The sooner Corbyn goes the better, but I still don't see a voice in the opposition that unites people. And until Labour sort that out, the country might be blue for some time.
Great post. Social media is not reality. I used to dismiss claims about virtue signalling, but as the years have gone on, I'm seeing that there was a lot of truth to that. So many people are just drunk on the idea of being perceived as "good people," that they lose sight of any semblance of reality.

So much delusion in this comments thread.

Idiots. I remember how smug everyone in the US was after the Brexit vote. We were all so sure that nothing like that could ever happen in the US! We sure weren't laughing anymore after election night 2016.
 
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Dec 25, 2018
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Although I am a Green Voter, I had voted the Brexit Party to get out of the EU because they were always going to be a temporary party until it was done.

I underatand and respect those who voted for the Tories but I couldn't simply because their manifesto are pretty terrible for communities at large and their record of cutting the Public Sector is known. I know they will bring Brexit around faster but there are more problems beyond that which need to be fixed.

I just hope these next 5 years stop the cuts to police numbers and encourages them to get the NHS running much more smoothly.
 

ROMhack

Member
Jul 14, 2018
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Sad about the result but I can't help think this isn't the worst thing in the world:

1 - Political instability has been causing some massive issues in the country and maybe now it'll level out. I've seen things today that I wouldn't ordinarily see, people acting compassionately towards others. Courteous commuters giving up seats for others. I think this result has deeply humbled some, for better or worse. This is definitely something we needed to fix and I was never convinced a Labour victory would help it; in fact I thought it'd make it worse if anything.

2 - The youth in revolt realising that they aren't that important in society. This is the most conservative part of me but I think a lot of youth have become emboldened by things that aren't necessarily good for them in the long term. We joke about danger hair and pronouns but there's something about people that I think has become too self-centred (egotistic). I think this might be a genuine wake-up call for those who have just been following that trend for the sake of it.

3 - Economy upturn. This might be a short-term thing but we've been dying on our arse because of not knowing where we're going. To see the pound strengthen in the aftermath of the result was a very nice thing. I hope it continues because that's been something genuinely affecting a lot of normal people. I mentioned how difficult I found it to find a job over the past year. I've found one now thank fuck but I really think this has been an awful time for people who are in transition.

Obviously there are major issues to address and I do think it's awful for those really struggling in society (e.g. homeless or people with significant mental health problems). I really feel sorry for them but there's a lot of other people who've been struggling because of this ongoing Brexit indecision/Corbyn experience. As much as I'd love to have seen more socialist policies enacted, I thought Corbyn's policies were ridiculously out of touch. I hope the state of things now emboldens Labour to remember that they need to appeal to working class ambition again. People, after all, are proud, even when poor, and that's something they seemingly forgot with their lame let's appeal to uni students approach.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Dec 3, 2013
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I thought about all of those things, and how much worse they would all be under a communist government and voted accordingly.
Yeah, for one Chernobyl happened. Probably the single most environmental destruction caused by man in one shot. I know I am being cheeky, but still.

I am still concerned for Fukushima constantly pumping into the ocean come to think of it, as an unrelated side note.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Apr 18, 2018
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To see the pound strengthen in the aftermath of the result was a very nice thing. I hope it continues because that's been something genuinely affecting a lot of people.
YEAH LADDDD GET ££££££££ N'WAH



Great post overall, thanks for sharing thoughts so US folks like myself can get a clearer picture from actual UK GAFers.
 

NickFire

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Mar 12, 2014
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Predictable by the left. Results and systems are only acceptable if they deliver the result they want.

People like this are responsible for the result they're protesting.
I've already started seeing complaint about how elections are held, and calls for some new system. Every single day they cry fascism. And every time they lose they latch onto intimidation, disruption, falsehoods, destruction of property, and calls to rig the next election. Unreal.
 

hariseldon

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Aug 22, 2018
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Predictable by the left. Results and systems are only acceptable if they deliver the result they want.

People like this are responsible for the result they're protesting.
There was a lot of talk at work about how the voting system doesn't work etc - ffs the Tories got more votes than Labour, no voting system would save them from that. But back to the riots - I think the behaviour of Extinction Rebellion this year made a few people ask the question about the left, and they started seeing the socialist workers flags, the communist flags, etc at these events, and started to link that behaviour to the toxicity of the Momentum mob that rules the Labour party and I reckon a good number of people sensibly said "fuck that". These riots will do nothing to change that.

The modern hard left have squandered the goodwill that people have tended to have for the left, the view of them as the nice guys, the friendly bunch, in contrast to the nasty Tories kicking the poor. When people are screaming abuse, being antisemetic, harassing those who have the wrong opinions, that makes Labour the nasty party and it'll take a long time for them to recover from that.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
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May 30, 2004
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How have they managed to miss the correlation between fascism and their behaviour?
It's easy to craft absolute moral principles for others to live by when you have no personal accountability, whether by internet anonymity (Twitter, Reeee), position of unchecked political authority (Stalin, Mao), or wearing a mask in public (Antifa). Once you refuse to engage in a fair, two-way negotiation with the society you have chosen to judge, you're inevitably going to go off the rails.
 

GamingKaiju

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Oct 24, 2014
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I live in Ruth's constituency whilst I knew I had to lend my vote to Boris I felt bad for Ruth. She's a good person and has probably suffered antisemitism from the Corbynista's and momentum gang but Labour needed a kick up the back side, Stoke has lost so much industry like mining, pottery's and the Steel works the area is littered with remnants from a past industrial power house of which it once was and now the only thing we use the land for is housing. Local Labour who have also held positions on the council for a long time have done nothing to attract new businesses or industry to the area instead we are left with warehouses and retail work which are shit as they don't offer a way out of poverty just a way to reinforce it but instead you get to say at least I WORK!!!

Whilst it would be unfair for me to put this onto Ruth which I don't, national and local Labour have allowed this to happen to areas like mine and on top of all this industry leaving Stoke has also had massive immigration from EU & non EU Countries only making competition for the few good jobs around here even harder, even for jobs like Barista staff where normally there would be 20-30 good picks there are 100's to choose from.

The town centre is in disarray too it's currently getting some much needed regeneration work needed but the town centre has become a hot bed for monkey dust users so it's turning loads of people way from using the town centre most just pop into the shopping centre then GTFO so they don't have to come across a dust user as they aren't pleasant people and are normally tripping balls most of the time and have a tendency to get aggressive.


Literal FASCISTS!! ReeERA are very gleeful over it I see they don't see that they are the actual fascists in this story the young in this Country need to grow up and get out of their echo chambers absolutey sickening.
 

sahlberg

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Doesn't he live in the UK? Maybe he is in the crowd. AfricanKing AfricanKing , wave to camera if you are there!
In one of our past clashes, I called him out for assuming to speak for 6m+ Londoners. This flaw, of course, was never acknowledged - let alone addressed.

One of today's lessons is of the fallacy on asserting the masses see things your way and that your voice is their voice.

Only when the masses are given the means to speak for themselves in a measured and meaningful way can we truly get an idea of what their voice is.

Shouting over others, deplatforming them, harassing them - these are the tools of a thing.
That thing has many names, but none of them are 'Democracy'.

I am very grateful to live in a part of the world that practices Democracy.

How have they managed to miss the correlation between fascism and their behaviour?
"It's OK when we do it"
"The ends justify the means"
Hypocrites always have an excuse.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Apr 18, 2018
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I've already started seeing complaint about how elections are held, and calls for some new system. Every single day they cry fascism. And every time they lose they latch onto intimidation, disruption, falsehoods, destruction of property, and calls to rig the next election. Unreal.
Just like in the USA, immediate riots and demonstrations, cries of impeachment, #notmypresident, get rid of the electoral college, etc.

Wonder if the next step will be the same, too: Boris Johnson's majority will be constantly and petulantly stonewalled while controversial witnesses come out of nowhere to block his party's new appointments and new legislature. :pie_thinking:
 
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Zefah

Gold Member
Jan 7, 2007
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2 - The youth in revolt realising that they aren't that important in society. This is the most conservative part of me but I think a lot of youth have become emboldened by things that aren't necessarily good for them in the long term. We joke about danger hair and pronouns but there's something about people that I think has become too self-centred (egotistic). I think this might be a genuine wake-up call for those who have just been following that trend for the sake of it.
I try to not get too confident that this is the case, as I know all too well how easy it is to get caught up in a bubble and see the things I want to see, but I do feel like more and more people in their late 20s and 30s are beginning to realize just how crazy the demands have become on the more extreme sides of the left and are beginning to reject it wholesale. Not that people are turning to ideals that have traditionally been far-right or even just considering right-wing, but just not accepting the new radical direction that so many prominent people on the left have embraced in this past decade.

Hopefully we will see a return to reason and compassion as we begin to learn how to cope with the effects of Social Media on society and discourse in general.
 

dionysus

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May 12, 2007
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How have they managed to miss the correlation between fascism and their behaviour?
Every horrible regime in the last two centuries has thought they were on the right side of history, but to achieve Utopia we must rid society of the people denying progress.

Mexican religious persecution, Russia, Franco, Mao, Nazis, etc. All used right side of history rhetoric. Anything is justifiable of you believe Utopia is the end result.
 

Airola

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Jun 25, 2015
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Good. They voted. The end.
This completely unnecessary circus should've not happened. The first vote should've been final.

I wonder when they'll bring up this is Putin's fault.

I think a site like 4chan is needed in this world. It’s a pressure relief valve where people are allowed to say things that are not allowed in polite society.
Yes, and the good thing is that what's said there is not hidden from anyone. The worst people ever can say the worst things ever and they can never be things that have been said in secret from public view. Any actual serious plans to do awful things will always be seen by someone out from the people behind the plan. They get to say what they want without having to feel others are trying to shut them down and at the same time what they say is not left a secret. That's good for everyone.
 

hariseldon

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Aug 22, 2018
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Just like in the USA, immediate riots and demonstrations, cries of impeachment, #notmypresident, get rid of the electoral college, etc.

Wonder if the next step will be the same, too: Boris Johnson's majority will be constantly and petulantly stonewalled while controversial witnesses come out of nowhere to block his party's new appointments and new legislature. :pie_thinking:
Boris, like Donald, gives no fucks and will appoint whoever he desires.
 

hariseldon

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Aug 22, 2018
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When even the guardian is running a piece that puts the blame entirely on corbyn and the crazy left that would rather be pure than win elections, you know you have messed up.

That'll be the article that caused my hard-left work colleague to unsubscribe from the Guardian then. Unfortunately anyone who disagrees with the narrative is the enemy. I get that people get passionate about their cause but as the article points out, this shit isn't electable and won't achieve the results they seek. Pragmatism isn't evil.

I wonder if this, coupled with the recent sane article from CNN mentioned in another thread re Trump, might signal the start of a shift to sanity...
 
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Kenpachii

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Mar 23, 2018
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Left does a good job of making people hate them. Congratz towards boris and he should start to counter EU with new contracts for individual country's for trade to open up there markets. Enough EU people that would love to backstab the EU in the back because they all want out of its cancer. Next country elections will push ridiculous hard into the anti EU sentiment all over europe.
 
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Patriots7

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Just hurry up with Brexit. Distressed credit funds have literally been waiting for months to start building up the pipeline.