• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

|OT| British Election mega-thread - 12th December 2019 : Let's try again, again.

Dec 25, 2018
2,634
2,256
715
Manchester, England
the best news is that if all future trade arrangements also have to pass through parliament then Johnson has carte blance to negotiate how he wants, with the withdrawal agreement the EU knew that the Tories were hamstrung and on the back-foot because of the parliament...well not any more
Boris's Checklist:

Don't give Nicola Sturgeon a Scottish Referendum
Don't bow down to the EU Negotiation
Don't bow down to the DUP for more money
Get Brexit done by January 31st
Destroy Labour Stronghold by at least 50%
Destroy the Crazy Leftists Dream

Try and cater to those who voted for him in the North
Tell Trump that the NHS is (not) for Sale*
Solicitate Sex from any Female EU Candidate to side with the UK*

*Situation dependant
 

Zefah

Gold Member
Jan 7, 2007
35,110
2,431
1,475
Everybody should watch this while imagining a hitler stash on him. If i could video edit, i'd just make it.
OK. Glad it wasn't only me that made the connection. I almost posted, "dude reminds me of Hitler" when I first saw that this morning, but refrained, thinking maybe I was the only the one.
 
Last edited:

JimmyJones

Member
Mar 19, 2015
1,683
1,742
495
Anyone else feeling a massive sense of relief that parliament were unable to overthrow democracy? Out of everything that's happened, that terrified me the most.
Boris could still cuck us with a shit deal. I can definitely see this happening.
 

dolabla

Member
Oct 9, 2013
4,451
6,657
775

LONDON—British progressives were already down from their huge losses in Thursday's election, as they lost pretty much every contest to the Conservatives, from Dublingtonampton and Worcestershiresauce to Hogwarts and the Shire.

But their depression turned to sheer terror as Boris Johnson removed his long-running disguise and revealed himself to be Donald Trump.

Classic Trump!

The shocking revelation came after Johnson's victory speech following Conservatives' huge wins in yesterday's elections. "Oh, and by the way, old chaps" -- he removed his mask and revealed himself to be Donald Trump -- "you're all part of the greatest country maybe ever. You're welcome!"

"We're making the UK great again!"

"You should have seen the looks on their faces," Trump said, laughing, later on. "I mean, it's a really good gag. I had them going for decades." Trump said he developed the idea of the Boris personality when he wanted to go slum it "among the people" abroad but didn't want any press attention. "Sometimes you just wanna be one of the boys." According to the ruler of both the United States and the United Kingdom, things "spiraled out of control" when he took on the Prime Minister job in July, but he wanted to keep the fun going as long as possible.

"It's pretty fun over here. Lots of golf. The food is weird -- even the McDonald's doesn't taste quite right -- but it's a nice change of pace from Washington."

Political commentators weren't sure what the implications were of this unprecedented development, but most agree the UK is now under American control, but it will kind of be one of those territories that aren't fully part of America like Puerto Rico or California.
 

KINGMOKU

Member
May 16, 2005
6,899
3,647
1,500
Communists and socialists will never, ever understand why the working class wants nothing to do with them. The 'best' argument I've heard is that the 'working class doesn't have time for politics, they're too busy working to scrape by, so we need to do it for them'. The sheer amount of condescension and lack of self-awareness in that response has fueled me for years.
After hearing what she had to say, can you even imagine that she wants to be a doctor. What kind of healthcare is she going to provide to patients if they don't see eye to eye with her worldview?

Not sure someone digging that up before she tries to get a job is going to do her any favors, and if she ends up working in a smaller town? She going to flowers in the attic everyone?
 
  • Like
Reactions: hariseldon

matt404au

Cyberbully
Apr 25, 2009
18,676
33,654
1,450
Australia
Ideological clashes have always been a thing. This one isn't that bad. We just hear about it more often due to our modern access to information.

Democracy is still fine, IMO. Generally speaking. It's not perfect, and there are a lot of issues, (e.g. gerrymandering, superdelegates, popular vote vs EC, hacking, fraud, etc) but the overall system is still sound. At the end of the day, despite our "differences", changes of power occur, and they occur without the need of wars or conflict.

Any perceived cultural divide is mostly exaggerations exploited by a sensationalist media for clicks and views. When outrage and zaniness and self-righteous ranting are profitable, the invisible hand of the free market is going to nudge things in that direction.
Generally agree, but the problem with the current moralising brigade is that it’s stemming from the universities and filtering down through the media and education system. The free market only works when the broader culture supports it. Right now, the cross-pollination of academia and religion is fundamentally changing foundational principles of western culture, e.g. equality now generally meaning equal outcomes instead of equal opportunities. It’s not just a run-of-the-mill generational fad that the kids will grow out of — they’re being indoctrinated at a young age with ideas that will stay with them for life until they hit some kind of crisis point and either break down or go through a “born again” phase where they drift back to traditionalism and overcorrect.
 

dolabla

Member
Oct 9, 2013
4,451
6,657
775
You guys in the UK ready for some





 

KINGMOKU

Member
May 16, 2005
6,899
3,647
1,500
You guys in the UK ready for some





When will this end?

Is this the end game? No one wants far left politics, socialism, or communism so blame it on foreign interference? Everytime?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
30,401
39,413
1,170
You guys in the UK ready for some





Like clockwork 🤡 :messenger_ok:
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
30,401
39,413
1,170
When will this end?

Is this the end game? No one wants far left politics, socialism, or communism so blame it on foreign interference? Everytime?
For real.

And they always choose Russia (I swear these are China paid puppets to keep the eyes off of them and on their most powerful neighbor.).

Russia isn’t going to care, they’re going to soak it up with the bravado making them look so smart and powerful that they can turn the tides in western nations without any detection in the process in the most advanced Information Age of our recorded history.

It is also concerning that they seem to want to pick a fight with Russia.
 
Last edited:

dolabla

Member
Oct 9, 2013
4,451
6,657
775
When will this end?

Is this the end game? No one wants far left politics, socialism, or communism so blame it on foreign interference? Everytime?
Doesn't look like it. It would require taking responsibility which is completely foreign to these people. It's always someone else!
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeepEnigma

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
11,913
19,751
855
You guys in the UK ready for some






 

zeorhymer

Gold Member
Nov 9, 2013
2,586
2,214
750
San Francisco, CA


Reading the above is about as close as I come to being 'triggered', which is generallya foreign concept to me. But this?

The left are fucking stupid. I'm done. Fucking reeeeeeeetarded.
Holy fuck. Can they not see what they are saying? Don't donate to charities because it's the government's job? I guess the bible is right, Satan really is in flock.
 

Kazza

Member
Oct 6, 2018
2,492
5,077
630
I've been thinking about this and I don't believe there is anything to worry about, going off of previous trends.

People naturally become more conservative as they get older; you have more to work for, more to lose and are at a place where you are starting to save, earn more and even start more revenue streams.

All this chart says to me is that it is taking people longer to settle down, which we know about as couples are waiting longer to start families (30+ now rather than 20+ in previous generations). That would indicate that the natural progression towards conservatism is taking longer. I will go out on a limb and guess that the swing towards conservatism will be even greater next election, as those 30-somethings are now prime age to begin to see the world in a different light.

It's easy to vote liberal and labour when you have nothing to lose and loads of free shit to gain. On the flip-side, if you are 40 with two young children, do you want to offer your hard-earned money handed over to scroungers? Especially if you have taken the decision to hold off having a family so that you can be more financially stable?

Labour should be in full on panic mode. 2025 has the potential to be more blue than it was Yesterday. Unless they completely cock it up.
But people aged 35-45 really should already have some kind of stake in society, married or not. The fact that so many haven't is a sign of dysfunction in the economy. Unless the Tories can provide an environment with affordable housing and decent paying jobs then they might end up going for a Corbyn like figure out of desperation. I believe Tucker Carlson has been going on about this in the US.


Maybe this explains the anti-semetism...
The Tories have the most powerful Pakistani/Muslim Brit ever in the form of Sajid Javid, so I think the Tories can still grab a portion of that vote. Leave the extremists and Jew haters to Labour, but try to chip off the moderate ones (I guess they would be at least a third, hopefully more). Javid seems like a decent guy, not traditionally religious, married to a white woman, smart. Hopefully the moderates will see that and turn away from Labour.

Wait, there's talk of people being able to retain dual citizenship? That's a clusterfuck civil war in the making,
We've had dual citizenship for as long as I can remember. However, IIRC, the plan mentioned in that tweet has been dead since 2016.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hariseldon

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
11,913
19,751
855
We've had dual citizenship for as long as I can remember. However, IIRC, the plan mentioned in that tweet has been dead since 2016.
I have mixed feelings about dual citizenship in general, but my issue was specifically with offering dual citizenship to all citizens while actively leaving one of the groups. It makes me think of how silly it would have been for Britian to offer all the colonists British citizenship after the Rev war. It wouldn't ease tensions, it would inflame them.
 

hariseldon

Gold Member
Aug 22, 2018
4,332
7,882
670
Generally agree, but the problem with the current moralising brigade is that it’s stemming from the universities and filtering down through the media and education system. The free market only works when the broader culture supports it. Right now, the cross-pollination of academia and religion is fundamentally changing foundational principles of western culture, e.g. equality now generally meaning equal outcomes instead of equal opportunities. It’s not just a run-of-the-mill generational fad that the kids will grow out of — they’re being indoctrinated at a young age with ideas that will stay with them for life until they hit some kind of crisis point and either break down or go through a “born again” phase where they drift back to traditionalism and overcorrect.
If you mean Disco Elysium’s ‘traditionalism’ then that would be one hell of an overcorrection!
 
  • Triggered
Reactions: matt404au

Gashtronomy

Member
Apr 19, 2019
3,955
5,336
450


Reading the above is about as close as I come to being 'triggered', which is generallya foreign concept to me. But this?

The left are fucking stupid. I'm done. Fucking reeeeeeeetarded.
Trans-panic uses the word 'cent'. That's an Americanism.

Smells like foreign interference if you ask me. LIke most political stuff nowadays, it's turned in to another form of revenue stream; ads, clicks and outrage bait.

I guess Gaming wasn't that profitable
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
19,935
40,674
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
Trans-panic uses the word 'cent'. That's an Americanism.

Smells like foreign interference if you ask me. LIke most political stuff nowadays, it's turned in to another form of revenue stream; ads, clicks and outrage bait.

I guess Gaming wasn't that profitable
"Do not donate a tuppence to charity"

There, you'll never see me coming when I subvert your democracy via Reddit :goog_cool:
 

DV27

Member
Jun 14, 2010
11,279
466
915

When James O'Brien's dropping truth bombs like this, you know the Corbynistas are in trouble.
 

hariseldon

Gold Member
Aug 22, 2018
4,332
7,882
670

As always, paywall so quoting in full.

It is rare for general elections to be determined by a single issue, even if for reasons of convenience we often pretend that they are. But this one might be the exception. No, I don’t mean Brexit. I mean Hugh Grant, actually. Every Labour or Lib Dem candidate the actor campaigned with, earnestly smarming at the public, lost. He must have been worth half a million votes to the Tories. Not just Hugh, though — the rest of them too. For every tear shed by Lily Allen, an angel perhaps died — but the Conservatives won a few hundred more votes.

It is the sanctimony and absolutism of a certain tranche of the left that I think offends the silent majority. Boris Johnson is a lying fascist; the Tories kill people and are thus not merely political opponents but subhuman. Those prepared to vote Conservative are complicit and should be defriended on social media sites. They are thick, uneducated, gullible, cruel and racist.

That’s the mindset of the leftie activists, the ones marching every day of the bloody week, the ones most voluble on Twitter. And so while you or I could probably see a few decent ideas in Labour’s manifesto, or in the case for remaining within the EU, for this lot it is all black and white, a Manichaean divide between good and evil.
I think that horribly misplaced certitude grates a little with the public. Certainly, as a campaigning strategy, it proved to be somewhat imperfect during the 2016 referendum. The man or woman on the street has had enough of this hectoring, condescension and contempt from people who are, very often, not terribly bright themselves.
But they are still in their echo chambers, cocooned by their delusions, and now a rift has appeared within them. Those whose most fervent desire is to remain within the EU insist that this wasn’t a Brexit election at all: the outcome was determined solely by Magic Grandpa’s heroic ineptitude in leading the Labour Party, and the country really wants to remain. The rest, Momentum Corbynista groupies such as Owen “Squealer” Jones, believe the election was solely about Brexit, and Grandpa’s incompetence had nothing whatsoever to do with it and he should remain to lead us into a bright socialist future. I’m sorry, but this is either expediency or stupidity. It seems obvious to me that both factors persuaded the white working class of northern England and the Midlands to troop, perhaps unhappily, over to the blue camp.


Corbyn was disliked for seeming to loathe everything about our country and the West in general, for his kowtowing to terrorist maniacs. The blue-collar British have always been patriotic. But they also want Brexit “done”, because they voted for it and have for three years felt cheated, justifiably enough.

It was my area wot won it, as The Sun might say. The northeast. When Redcar goes Tory, you know something truly strange is afoot. Similarly Sedgefield and Blyth Valley. Hartlepool would probably have gone blue too, were it not for Richard Tice’s candidature for the Brexit Party. My guess is that the difference in the size of the swing to the Tories between northeast and northwest England (approx 10% versus 5%) was largely a consequence of the much bigger appetite for voting leave on the eastern seaboard than on the west. Hell, we’re sitting there on the edge of the North Sea — squint and we can almost see the buggers in Belgium. But, again, it would be a mistake to ascribe this election victory simply to Corbyn and Brexit.

The working-class march away from Labour has been under way for a good few years, beginning, of course, in Scotland, where the party has been wiped out. Voters from the north of England to the Midlands have gathered that the Labour Party no longer represents them, a process that began with Tony Blair’s government pitching for the middle-class vote and curiously accelerated under Corbyn.

Look where Labour did well: Cambridge, London and Canterbury. Hardly cradles of proletarian socialist unrest, are they? The poorer the area, the less likely it was to vote Labour. What a remarkable turnaround in such a short space of time.

So who are these new voters who have, perhaps with misgivings, donated their trust to Boris? They are older than the median age. They are blue collar, which today might just as easily mean that they work in a call centre as that they are a plumber or an electrician. They may have quite admired one or two of Labour’s policies — not the free-unicorns-for-all stuff, but a higher tax rate for the rich, a swipe at the City, nationalisation of the utilities and so on.

But they have been perhaps permanently put off Labour, seeing it as a conduit for the affluent metro middle class and too fixated on the assuaging of real or imagined victimhoods via identity politics, the horrible political correctness and the infantile leftie agitprop attitudinising. They are in favour of decent levels of welfare — but only to those who deserve it, to those who “do the right thing”.

In other words, they are largely social conservatives: for faith, flag and family and low immigration. Their views on these issues did not figure much during the election debates because for the liberal TV people they are not important — they have already been decided. Much better to ask the candidates questions about the pressing issue of Islamophobia, they thought.

This social conservatism may be a problem for Boris Johnson, who is instinctively liberal if not libertarian, and he will need to be nimble. Tack to the right on social issues, tack to the left on economic issues: that’s your new constituency, BoJo — cosset it. Because these people are not tribally Conservative. Their trust was not a gift for life.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
19,935
40,674
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com

As always, paywall so quoting in full.
Tut tut, our understanding of demographics resulted in major losses, but we're still gonna insist on how our opponents should "look after" them. Listen to us!
 

hariseldon

Gold Member
Aug 22, 2018
4,332
7,882
670
Tut tut, our understanding of demographics resulted in major losses, but we're still gonna insist on how our opponents should "look after" them. Listen to us!
Not sure I follow. The Times has been pretty balanced, the point made is one that as the working classes have come to vote Tory the party will need to focus on them a bit more so as to cement that into a more permanent arrangement, which I think Boris plans to do. It also lays into leftist shouty nonsense.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
19,935
40,674
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
Not sure I follow. The Times has been pretty balanced, the point made is one that as the working classes have come to vote Tory the party will need to focus on them a bit more so as to cement that into a more permanent arrangement, which I think Boris plans to do. It also lays into leftist shouty nonsense.
Sure, Boris will have to "focus on them a bit more". I think we're drawing two different but non-contradictory impressions from the same article.

When advice on how to take care of a demographic immediately pops up after that demographic drastically shifts to an unexpected party, I find that a bit interesting, especially if that advice is to make sure you provide the things and do the things that the losing party was trying to do. Seems like the advice "tack to the left on economic issues" is what Boris and the modern Western economic uprisings are rejecting. Comes off as a misunderstanding as to why these groups voted the way they did.
 

hariseldon

Gold Member
Aug 22, 2018
4,332
7,882
670
Sure, Boris will have to "focus on them a bit more". I think we're drawing two different but non-contradictory impressions from the same article.

When advice on how to take care of a demographic immediately pops up after that demographic drastically shifts to an unexpected party, I find that a bit interesting, especially if that advice is to make sure you provide the things and do the things that the losing party was trying to do. Seems like the advice "tack to the left on economic issues" is what Boris and the modern Western economic uprisings are rejecting. Comes off as a misunderstanding as to why these groups voted the way they did.
Absolutely agree there. Clearly the left hasn't done anything - Labour had over a decade under Blair and Brown and those areas were still deprived, so absolutely there's no point just doing the same things, and I think Boris is taking a different tack thankfully. He's looking at transport infrastructure for instance which is pretty poor up there - it would allow Northern companies to compete nationally as they can get their goods around the country more easily, it would allow people to work in places they couldn't previously expect to reasonably commute, etc.

It feels weird that a Tory election win has given me something British politics hasn't for a long time, hope. This old leftie git doesn't quite know what to do with that.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
19,935
40,674
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
Absolutely agree there. Clearly the left hasn't done anything - Labour had over a decade under Blair and Brown and those areas were still deprived, so absolutely there's no point just doing the same things, and I think Boris is taking a different tack thankfully. He's looking at transport infrastructure for instance which is pretty poor up there - it would allow Northern companies to compete nationally as they can get their goods around the country more easily, it would allow people to work in places they couldn't previously expect to reasonably commute, etc.

It feels weird that a Tory election win has given me something British politics hasn't for a long time, hope. This old leftie git doesn't quite know what to do with that.
A shakeup of the establishment should give hope to people from all corners of the political spectrum. When your own crusty gov't seems to stand between you and democracy, doesn't really matter who wins unless they're cleaning out that bureaucratic sludge.
 

Zefah

Gold Member
Jan 7, 2007
35,110
2,431
1,475

As always, paywall so quoting in full.
"infantile leftie agitprop attitudinising" is a beautiful turn of phrase that I'm surely going to appropriate at some point.
 
Mar 30, 2012
8,763
204
555
No second referendum for Scottish independence

Sturgeon accuses Tories of "trying to block" independence vote? There is no "try" love, you ain't getting one.

Moreover, they're under no obligation to give you one - it wasn't in their manifesto. Thats how this works by the way. If you win the election you can implement your policies.