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|OT| British Election mega-thread - 12th December 2019 : Let's try again, again.

Gashtronomy

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Apr 19, 2019
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Corbyn and Mcdonell have apologised for the losses in Labour. Still no word of either of them stepping down or going away...
 

autoduelist

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Trans-panic uses the word 'cent'. That's an Americanism.

Smells like foreign interference if you ask me. LIke most political stuff nowadays, it's turned in to another form of revenue stream; ads, clicks and outrage bait.

I guess Gaming wasn't that profitable
Broken leftist ideology, regardless. But you are correct, Labour Party supporters in the UK don't have a lot of cents.
 

MilkyJoe

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Sturgeon accuses Tories of "trying to block" independence vote? There is no "try" love, you ain't getting one.

Moreover, they're under no obligation to give you one - it wasn't in their manifesto. Thats how this works by the way. If you win the election you can implement your policies.
Also, they only got 45% of the people that bothered to vote... Anyone want to tell her? 😂🤣
 

Greedings

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sahlberg

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makes way more sense for the British to align with old imperial assets as modern equals than it ever did aligning with French, German and Eastern Europe.
Yepp. So Scott has already talked to Boris and he seems to be saying that we should have a deal signed and all within 12 months.

At that time, the negotiations with EU, as slow as that goes, they would probably not even have agreed to a schedule for the talks.
There will be very interesting dynamics when EU tries to protect the French and Irish AG sector if UK already have a signed free trade agreement with Australia.
Very interesting dynamics.

The lucky country wins again :)
 

Kenpachii

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makes way more sense for the British to align with old imperial assets as modern equals than it ever did aligning with French, German and Eastern Europe.
Old european allies will also come back towards them or just tunnel there products through another country towards the UK like they always do with boycotts.

Business is business at the end of the day.

Boris is what the country needed, a guy with a spine and that wants to move forwards and hold control over there own value's and boarders. The more success they gain also will make the EU more unstable through country's using it as a example which will result the EU crawling back in lightning pace to give then whatever they want if they just join.

EU is weak, its riddled with money obsessed communists and one napoleon that will implode the moment people get annoyed.
 
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Greedings

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Yepp. So Scott has already talked to Boris and he seems to be saying that we should have a deal signed and all within 12 months.

At that time, the negotiations with EU, as slow as that goes, they would probably not even have agreed to a schedule for the talks.
There will be very interesting dynamics when EU tries to protect the French and Irish AG sector if UK already have a signed free trade agreement with Australia.
Very interesting dynamics.

The lucky country wins again :)
Even ideologically speaking, Brits have WAY more in common with the anglosphere than any other the European countries. English Common Law is still a major part of civilisation in the US, Canada and Australia. We should leverage those old ties, and build bigger and better cooperation than the EU.

I don't know enough about the other old dominions, but I don't see how building relations with India and Singapore could be negative. Both are amazing countries and we should work with them.

Fuck Europe.


Old european allies will also come back towards them or just tunnel there products through another country towards the UK like they always do with boycotts.

Business is business at the end of the day.
Of course. UK has what, almost 70 million people? All living pretty expensive lifestyles and buying up European goods. No way would they ditch the chance to make money.

Money >>>>> Ideology to most people, especially big publicly traded businesses.[/QUOTE]
 
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Breakage

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Turned on the radio today and the topic of discussion was about whether the next the Labour leader should be a woman. I heard a similar conversation in regard to the next Lib Dem leader.

It seems that the Left have learned nothing from their latest hammering.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Even ideologically speaking, Brits have WAY more in common with the anglosphere than any other the European countries. English Common Law is still a major part of civilisation in the US, Canada and Australia. We should leverage those old ties, and build bigger and better cooperation than the EU.

I don't know enough about the other old dominions, but I don't see how building relations with India and Singapore could be negative. Both are amazing countries and we should work with them.

Fuck Europe.




Of course. UK has what, almost 70 million people? All living pretty expensive lifestyles and buying up European goods. No way would they ditch the chance to make money.

Money >>>>> Ideology to most people, especially big publicly traded businesses.
[/QUOTE]
A cross-continental economic bloc consisting of Australia, UK, Canada, Mexico, and the USA would be a brave new world.
 
Mar 30, 2012
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Turned on the radio today and the topic of discussion was about whether the next the Labour leader should be a woman. I heard a similar conversation in regard to the next Lib Dem leader.

It seems that the Left have learned nothing from their latest hammering.
Amazing. Meanwhile we've had two female Tory prime ministers. The first one was elected in the fucking 70's. The gender of the party leader could not be less relevant.

That said, I hope they make Rebecca Long-Bailey the new leader. That should ensure at least ten years of Conservative majority.
 

RokkanStoned

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Reading the above is about as close as I come to being 'triggered', which is generallya foreign concept to me. But this?

The left are fucking stupid. I'm done. Fucking reeeeeeeetarded.
This one is so interesting, because it really says a lot morally about them as people. It seems it's political power that motivates them, rather than helping someone.
Honestly, the gap between the previous bases of "working parties" and the kind of technocrats and urban elites that are speaking for them, is fascinating to me. It's why there's a big crisis, with especially media exasperating things due to their socioeconomic and professional homogeny.
Whenever Brexit gets discussed, you'll have labour supporters literally calling their fellow labour voters racist, thus further showing the separation between the urban and rural voters. It seems like a lot of the beliefs that the urban left-wing supporters are drawn towards are often more about group and identity, rather than much to do about left-wing politics. They often deliberately screw themselves over, by alienating the working class voter, through ridiculing them and their concerns, if they don't fall in line with their beliefs. Often they suddenly take a weird turn, instead of focusing on the actual policies they might agree on. See this in the US, where instead of discussing police brutality in general and rights, lip service has to be given to racial causes, thereby sidelining the debate to a racial one.
Same happens with poverty issues and otherwise, where the left tries to sabotage itself. I mean, to degree it's understandable for black people to want to make sure that the policies don't suddenly skip past their communities, but the way it ends up being discussed is almost always to the detriment of their common causes.
Similar issue is found within Europe, where there might be traditional left-wing voters that feel displaced and that change is happening too fast without consideration, that vote for Brexit to limit immigration and secure the labor force nationally. There might be traditional left-wing technocrats that do so to protect national industries and securing workers rights. But then you also have the other group who want the complete opposite, which are urban left-wing people that in part are more neoliberal, but on the other hand obsess about identity rather than policy, about the perceived why, which runs counter to the traditional labour parties. Like immigration control just becomes wrong, instead of as a necessary thing for a nation state. These urban voters obsess about economic growth in the way that right-wing parties traditionally did, but only when convenient. They seemingly care about EU as an identity and as means of ease of travel, while completely ignoring the price of it. They can suddenly care about the benefits of prudent economic spending, but then suddenly give fuck all, ignore economic studies and appeal to emotions when it becomes inconvenient. It's like this weird mix of a right-wing and a left-wing person. And they have some righteous indignation to them and treat everyone as an enemy. Another example is education, where labour parties usually have tried to exalt the lowly educated and the profession educated worker, while also wanting to give their children a path to prosperity and even class mobility. These urban left-wing voters somehow try to use education against typical labour party voters, leading to further alienation. It's one of those crazy things, where a lot of members of labour parties and the urban voters, just hate the base of its own party. It's like this weird elitism, that makes for a chimaera of right-wing and left-wing cultural politics.

This is rather in line with Stein Rokkan's historical cleavages in the European party systems.


Basing itself on various historical moments, like the reformation, industrial revolution, french revolution, russian revolution, etc. If I were to put a point for our current situation, it'd be post-WWII or from the foundation of the UN and EU and increasing globalized world.



I believe I saw someone trying to refute the right-wing surge with left-wing gains in other countries, using Norway as an example. However, that example fails badly, because what really shocked up things in Norway is the agrarian party, which is far from these urban left-wing voters. Honestly, the agrarian party is nationalistic, dislikes the EU, likes to shoot wolves, rural and decentralization focused, etc. Basically completely different from the metropolitan left-wing voter. Also, a lot of voters were siphoned from the labour party as well.
 
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Zefah

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Amazing. Meanwhile we've had two female Tory prime ministers. The first one was elected in the fucking 70's. The gender of the party leader could not be less relevant.

That said, I hope they make Rebecca Long-Bailey the new leader. That should ensure at least ten years of Conservative majority.
It's kind of hilarious, honestly. The same people who would (probably rightfully) condemn Thatcher for her policies would likely be the same types to make jokes like, "the economy wouldn't have crashed if it had been Lehman Sisters!"
 
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matt404au

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I want to be finished with the election thread, but I just keep being sucked back in by these kind of crazy antics :messenger_tears_of_joy: I just want to get on with my life, but this shit keeps happening:



Someone needs to put this to music.
Those empty, soulless eyes 😂😂😂

Same braindead morons who would be picketing funerals and proclaiming “God hates fags!” had they been exposed to Fred Phelps.
 

Bullet Club

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And now those 2 are going to make a baby together. Or something like that

I'm British and even I have never heard of that term before. Ironically, it sounds like something Boris would come out with.
You've probably seen him in something before.



He was in some new TV version of Dad's Army.



Might have to check that out. Hopefully it's not plopcarpet.
 

Solomeena

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I am so sick of extremist liberals and communists, all of you identifying as such and are nasty and vial to anyone who has a different opinion than you, fuck off.
 

MilkyJoe

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I want to be finished with the election thread, but I just keep being sucked back in by these kind of crazy antics :messenger_tears_of_joy: I just want to get on with my life, but this shit keeps happening:



Someone needs to put this to music.
They're all so brainwashed
 

llien

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They get German social security money just for being here.
There even seems to be a whole system in place by some criminals controlling this and getting a share of the money from those people.
Yeah, I read that on FB, it is a massive problem, some AFD dude was stating that.
Must be legit.
 
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llien

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Probably something close to the recently renegotiated deal. This election cemented that Remain is dead and there will be no second referendum, so the EU has little incentive to drag things out any further by being impossible in negotiations.
From what I've seen, EU was consistent with it's being approach all the way.
May could have had "frontstop", had she not ruled it out as compromising UK's sovereignty.
If that's not the case, please tell me when EU has ever changed its position on the deal.

Regardless, UK doesn't need any negotiations to do the "hard" brexit.
So if BoJo was honest about it being the only right brexit and whatever he agreed to last autumn was forced by the mixed parliament, he can now opt out.
 
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sahlberg

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From what I've seen, EU was consistent with it's being approach all the way.
May could have had "frontstop", had she not ruled it out as compromising UK's sovereignty.
If that's not the case, please tell me when EU has ever changed its position on the deal.

Regardless, UK doesn't need any negotiations to do the "hard" brexit.
So if BoJo was honest about it being the only right brexit and whatever he agreed to last autumn was forced by the mixed parliament, he can now opt out.
Boris have an incredibly strong hand now.

Scott Morrison just said he had talked to Boris and expect a trade agreement to be signed and in place in less than 12 months.
When the trade discussions with EU realistically starts, UK already have a free trade agreement in place with Australia
and will have full access to all AG products that Australia can provide.
In that environment France AG, but in particular Irish AG sector will push their governments to absolutely get a trade agreement that covers AG in place, immediately rather than later.
And France and Ireland will have to sell this to the other 25 nations that this is urgent and they have to get an agreement like immediately.

While this is happening, eastern europe will go "maybe, what is there in it for us? We have neglible trade with UK. What you gonna give us in exchange for support?"

And the whole bullshit will drag out for at least a decade. Every nation in EU has veto rights and own self-interestes that trump EU interests.

When UK and AU + US trade agreement is in place there will be very little room to manouver for EU and very few demands that they can enforce. As they are 27 different nations that will have to all agree on a difficult issue I expect they will not reach an agreement anytime soon. All the while French farmers start protesting.

All the while Boris can tell France/Ireland and their farmers that are dependent on UK, no rush, no emergency, we are fine we get AG from elsewhere now.
 
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llien

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As an immigrant from USSR living in Germany, who is rather divided on the Brexit (on one hand, UK is a major EU country, on the other, UK was vetoing further integration of EU), let me ask you to stop strawman-ing.

Today's Russia is run by KGB dudes, that long for USSКб its lost influence and are butthurt about losing cold war in a major way (USSR collapse was "a major disaster of XX", not WWII, mind you, Putin said that openly).
Inside Russia, propaganda is everywhere, even in a bloody series about Einstein Americans being evil (80s style)



Russia using all means to try to influence elections in the west, including those in USA is a fact, get on with it, even if they happen to support the side that you are voting for.
As for "X won only because of Russia" nobody could claim that in confidence, so the other side needs to tone down on that too.
 
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llien

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sahlberg sahlberg
That's post Brexit negotiations.
Some people think of it as zero-sum game, I don't.

Australia is a 28 million nation on the other side of the planet, I'm puzzled why that has any importance whatsoever.
 
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sahlberg

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sahlberg sahlberg
That's post Brexit negotiations.
Some people think of it as zero-sum game, I don't.

Australia is a 28 million nation on the other side of the planet, I'm puzzled why that has any importance whatsoever.
What?
Brexit will happen within weeks.
Australias PM have talked to Boris and says he expect a trade agreement to be in place, signed in less than a year.
Australias opposition party is backing it 100%.

Australia has a huge AG sector and can easily supply UK with all the AG products they need if they need to drop imports from France and Ireland.
That will easily solve the scare mongering of "shortage of food". That will not happen.
Australia can easily provide all the food you need at better quality and at lover prices than what Ireland and France does today.

Once UK switches AG imports away from Ireland/France and towards AU can that be ever reversed if the new trade agreement will bring higher quality and lower prices?
 
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sahlberg

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sahlberg sahlberg
That's post Brexit negotiations.
Some people think of it as zero-sum game, I don't.

Australia is a 28 million nation on the other side of the planet, I'm puzzled why that has any importance whatsoever.
We have SINGLE CATTLE FARMS that are bigger than the whole island of Ireland.
https://www.thejournal.ie/largest-property-sale-in-world-2179393-Jun2015/

Out Lamb industry dwarves the Irish/French industry by an order of magnitude.

We can very very easily replace both Ireland and France and replace ALL their AG exports to the UK with australian produce.
Easily. And it will be cheaper and higher quality. Once there is a trade agreement in place instead of the EU rules that virtually bans
Australian export to europe.

Once we get access to the UK market we will basically destroy the prospects for any other EU country to sell at a profit to the UK.
Then once UK gets properly independent, they can start negotiating some trade agreements with Argentina or Uruguay and give us some competition.
But the future for Irish AG industry looks bleak. They completely depend on export to the UK.
(And have already asked EU for emergency loans and emergency subsidice since they expect to be hit super hard once brexit happens.)
 

autoduelist

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As an immigrant from USSR living in Germany, who is rather divided on the Brexit (on one hand, UK is a major EU country, on the other, UK was vetoing further integration of EU), let me ask you to stop strawman-ing.

Today's Russia is run by KGB dudes, that long for USSКб its lost influence and are butthurt about losing cold war in a major way (USSR collapse was "a major disaster of XX", not WWII, mind you, Putin said that openly).
Inside Russia, propaganda is everywhere, even in a bloody series about Einstein Americans being evil (80s style)



Russia using all means to try to influence elections in the west, including those in USA is a fact, get on with it, even if they happen to support the side that you are voting for.
As for "X won only because of Russia" nobody could claim that in confidence, so the other side needs to tone down on that too.
A] it's a meme
B] IT'S A MEME
C] Yes, everybody knows Russia is interfering with elections. So is China. So is everybody. We even have the Mueller report detailing all the silly ways Russia tried to interfere in US elections. santa Clause suits and all.
D] it's a meme
E] nothing you say dismisses said meme
F] Still don't give a flying hell. HRC spent over a billion dollars trying to 'influence' the US election. She still lost. The entire internet is posting on forums, and twitters, and 'influencing' elections in other countries. Don't care. There is no way to stifle ideas on that scale - we must simply fight bad ideas with good ones.
G] The fact is, the far left is dabbling in communism. They deserve to get BTFO.
H] why the random bolding? i can hear just fine.
i] if we look at what a foreign power might most want to do, it would be to destroy the internal cohesion and sovereignty of an enemy nation. That would be remaining in the EU and leftist/socialist ideology on both counts. Hence meme.
 
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Kazza

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Boris have an incredibly strong hand now.

Scott Morrison just said he had talked to Boris and expect a trade agreement to be signed and in place in less than 12 months.
When the trade discussions with EU realistically starts, UK already have a free trade agreement in place with Australia
and will have full access to all AG products that Australia can provide.
In that environment France AG, but in particular Irish AG sector will push their governments to absolutely get a trade agreement that covers AG in place, immediately rather than later.
And France and Ireland will have to sell this to the other 25 nations that this is urgent and they have to get an agreement like immediately.

While this is happening, eastern europe will go "maybe, what is there in it for us? We have neglible trade with UK. What you gonna give us in exchange for support?"

And the whole bullshit will drag out for at least a decade. Every nation in EU has veto rights and own self-interestes that trump EU interests.

When UK and AU + US trade agreement is in place there will be very little room to manouver for EU and very few demands that they can enforce. As they are 27 different nations that will have to all agree on a difficult issue I expect they will not reach an agreement anytime soon. All the while French farmers start protesting.

All the while Boris can tell France/Ireland and their farmers that are dependent on UK, no rush, no emergency, we are fine we get AG from elsewhere now.
The game has changed massively since the election. Any hope of the UK remaining in the EU has now vanished and we will be unlikely to be seeing any more of these types of visits to the EU but anti-Brexit MPs. Their only purpose was to undermine Brexit, and without them poised to stab the UK in the back, the EU will now take things much more seriously.



I personally wouldn't be against putting the EU trade deal on the backburner. Sorting out other deals first (Aus and NZ could be quick wins, US and Japan etc could come later) would put more pressure on the EU. The EU has a £94bn bilateral trade surplus in goods with the UK, and the prospect of tariff-free new world wines and agricultural products from Aus/South America would certainly focus minds in France, as cheap cars and other manufactures from Japan and Korea would focus minds in Germany. The EU has had its fun playing divide and rule during the previous Remainer parliament - maybe it's our turn now.

Although Theresa May said that Britain would support the security of Europe in any eventuality, it could be put on the table by Boris. As the EU is fond of saying, there can be no cherry picking, and that should include the UK's defence of the eastern border of the EU. It would be had to argue that Britain should be willing to sacrifice the lives of its soldiers to protect a vindictive EU.

This is an interesting article on the new landscape:
The EU must rethink its approach to UK trade talks


The EU played an indirect but critical part in last week’s electoral triumph for UK prime minister Boris Johnson — and in Brexit.

It was a historic error of judgment by some of the EU’s leaders to collude with Remainers in the UK. Instead, they should have gone out of their way to help Mr Johnson’s predecessor Theresa May pass her withdrawal agreement.

The EU leadership not only overplayed its hand during the negotiations. It committed the critical error of refusing to rule out a Brexit extension from the outset. They contributed to the ensuing uncertainty and the change in the Tory leadership. The rest is history.

As a direct consequence of these errors, the EU will end up with a more distant relationship with the UK than it could have had. Mrs May’s withdrawal deal, while far from ideal, would have been consistent with a future association agreement. By betting the house on an elusive second Brexit referendum, a coalition of EU leaders and the Remain campaign have ended up forfeiting that opportunity.

If EU leaders had any strategic sense, they would now pause for a minute to decide exactly what they want from a new bilateral relationship with the UK.

It would be complacent to think that Mr Johnson will be a pushover in the second phase, the upcoming trade negotiations. What would happen if the EU were to play hardball and only offer a minimal deal, perhaps spiced with demands for EU access to UK fishing waters, or that the UK follow EU labour market rules?

If Brussels were to make such demands, it would give Mr Johnson a rational reason to walk away from talks entirely. The Brexit transition period is scheduled to expire at the end of 2020. At that point, Mr Johnson will still have four more years in office ahead of him, longer than any other EU leader.

There would also be significant economic consequences for the EU’s leaders if no trade deal is struck and the two sides end up in a trading relationship based on World Trade Organization rules. That would put at risk a substantial portion of the EU’s £94bn bilateral trade surplus in goods.
Sceptics argue that a trade deal cannot be concluded quickly. But speed is a political variable. If the EU decided to prioritise a deal with the UK, it could choose to fast-track the negotiations. It is true that the EU would not be able to ratify a trade deal by the end of next year. But if negotiations were far enough along by late 2020, the two sides could find a way to extend the transition period. The history of the EU’s free trade agreement with Canada offers another model. It has been provisionally applied since 2017, while awaiting final approval by the member states. When somebody tells you that a trade deal takes many years to negotiate, they are really saying that they do not want events to move faster.
Another important consideration for the EU is that the UK is likely to start parallel trade talks with the US. If such a deal were to be concluded first, it might contain passages that could interfere with a not-yet-concluded EU trade deal. For example, American negotiators might insist on access for their chlorinated chicken and genetically modified organisms. If the EU really wants a strategic partnership with the UK, it is in its interest to conclude that agreement before the US does. If it is the strategic goal of US president Donald Trump to drive a wedge between Britain and the EU, this would be an ideal opportunity.
All that said, I'm pretty optimistic of the UK and the EU coming to an amicable arrangement. I don't see the Conservative's new northern constituencies being terribly keen on the low-regulation "Singapore-on-Thames" model, and the new government doesn't seem to want to move n that direction, so they could easily reach some kind of level playing field agreement. So long as they are making good progress, then extending the transition period deadline shouldn't be a problem. Boris has 5 years with a big majority, stronger than pretty much any other major EU leader (lame-duck Merkel, Macron facing more strikes, Spain weak and divided, Italy's minority technocratic governemtn with Salvini waiting in the wings etc).

I think Boris will go for a fairly soft Brexit (so long as the EU play nice)
 
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llien

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Yes, everybody knows Russia is interfering with elections. So is China. So is everybody.
No. There is no "so is". What you are trying to do is downplaying a major problem, which seems to be driven by the fact that you have problems admitting some foreign motehrfuckers might be adding votes to the motherfucker you chose to vote for.

There is no other country in this world, where series about Einstein turns into "look how Bad Filthy and Despicable USA is".
There is also no other country ruled by people buthurt about losing cold war.
 

llien

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Brexit will happen within weeks.
Brexit deal is about "what happens until we negotiate trade deal".

That will easily solve the scare mongering of "shortage of food". That will not happen.
That only applied to "hard brexit", it does not apply to the "front backstop" that BoJo negotiated earlier.

We can very very easily replace both Ireland and France and replace ALL their AG exports to the UK with australian produce.
Easily. And it will be cheaper and higher quality.
Good to know.
 

MilkyJoe

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As an immigrant from USSR living in Germany, who is rather divided on the Brexit (on one hand, UK is a major EU country, on the other, UK was vetoing further integration of EU), let me ask you to stop strawman-ing.

Today's Russia is run by KGB dudes, that long for USSКб its lost influence and are butthurt about losing cold war in a major way (USSR collapse was "a major disaster of XX", not WWII, mind you, Putin said that openly).
Inside Russia, propaganda is everywhere, even in a bloody series about Einstein Americans being evil (80s style)



Russia using all means to try to influence elections in the west, including those in USA is a fact, get on with it, even if they happen to support the side that you are voting for.
As for "X won only because of Russia" nobody could claim that in confidence, so the other side needs to tone down on that too.
Lefties claim Russia did it every time some doesn't go their way. Even fucking star wars failing is due to Russian bots 😂
 

matt404au

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No. There is no "so is". What you are trying to do is downplaying a major problem, which seems to be driven by the fact that you have problems admitting some foreign motehrfuckers might be adding votes to the motherfucker you chose to vote for.

There is no other country in this world, where series about Einstein turns into "look how Bad Filthy and Despicable USA is".
There is also no other country ruled by people buthurt about losing cold war.
China is butthurt about losing wars for a hundred years.

 

llien

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China is butthurt about losing wars for a hundred years.

Yeah, and the words "enemy" and "Japanese" are synonymous.
And so fucking what?

Powerful countries have been meddling with Banana Republics since forever. It happens for the first time, however, that it is United States of America, not least, that got Banana Republic treatment.
But Russia playing together with conservatives, makes it OK, doesn't it? Let's "joke" about "why shouldn't I root for Russia in Russian-Ukrainian conflict" doesn't it? Just a coincidence, of course.

Despicable...

PS
This topic is about UK, if you want to continue, post response in the respective topic please, I don't want to derail this one.
 
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matt404au

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Yeah, and the words "enemy" and "Japanese" are synonymous.
And so fucking what?

Powerful countries have been meddling with Banana Republics since forever. It happens for the first time, however, that it is United States of America, not least, that got Banana Republic treatment.
But Russia playing together with conservatives, makes it OK, doesn't it? Let's "joke" about "why shouldn't I root for Russia in Russian-Ukrainian conflict" doesn't it? Just a coincidence, of course.

Despicable...

PS
This topic is about UK, if you want to continue, post response in the respective topic please, I don't want to derail this one.
I was responding to your assertion that “There is also no other country ruled by people buthurt about losing Cold War” in reference to Russia. China is way more butthurt about losing wars.

Bit rich telling me I’m in the wrong topic when you brought it up lol.