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|OT| British Election mega-thread - 12th December 2019 : Let's try again, again.

AV

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Leeds West will more than likely remain red since it has been since 1987 (or 1945 if you ignore one Liberal term), so it doesn't matter that much for me, but I have no idea who to vote for. My current vote is no-one.

I used to be red by default but their plans for spending, internet, proposed 4 day work week etc. all sound hilariously misguided.

Maybe I should forget that the libs dems are treacherous cunts and vote purely for the legal weed.
 
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Gashtronomy

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Leeds West will more than likely remain red since it has been since 1987 (or 1945 if you ignore one Liberal term), so it doesn't matter that much for me, but I have no idea who to vote for. My current vote is no-one.

I used to be red by default but their plans for spending, internet, proposed 4 day work week etc. all sound hilariously misguided.

Maybe I should forget that the libs dems are treacherous cunts and vote purely for the legal weed.
Legal weed is the reason I would vote lib dems.

Which part is west leeds? Seacroft and that?
 

hariseldon

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Can't say I'm a fan of legal weed. I've seen the effects weed has on people and honestly it's not pleasant. We need fewer people smoking weed, not more.
 
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AV

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Legal weed is the reason I would vote lib dems.

Which part is west leeds? Seacroft and that?
Nah Seacroft is east, west is more Kirkstall, Bramley, Armley.

Can't say I'm a fan of legal weed. I've seen the effects weed has on people and honestly it's not pleasant. We need fewer people smoking weed, not more.
Some people. A tiny fraction of the weed-smoking populace that have nothing else going on in life and end up sitting and smoking all day. No doubt there's definitely people who misuse it and become mentally addicted but you can apply the same logic to shit like Netflix. I really doubt decriminalization / legalisation would have a profound effect in that regard, I cannot remember the last time I spoke to someone that wasn't trying weed purely because it's illegal. I think something like half of the UK has already tried it anyway. The police basically don't even care about it anymore, they've got better shit to do. You can walk through Leeds city center with a blunt and no-one really bats an eye. This would just remove the need to pretend they are, free up some jail room, maybe bring in a shitload of tax money if they did it right. Still keep it off the streets and obviously highly illegal to drive stoned.

Really, in a world full of readily available alcohol, cigarettes and prescription meds, weed should be the least of anyone's worries.
 
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Mar 28, 2017
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My Twitter trending list has been nothing but pro-Labour propaganda for the last week (When it's blantantly not trending).

Thankfully other people have noticed it too. Most of them are packed with comments pointing it out.

Normies are quickly waking up to how they are manipulated with social media.
Twitter is absolutely toxic with that kind of stuff. Almost makes me sick when their trending algorithm is bias to hell.
 
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DV27

Formerly 'Dan27'
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Labour: We will increase the taxes for the rich and the poor will be taxed the same*

*until the rich move their money out of the country then we will increase the taxes of the poor and they can't provide for themselves!
I'm amazed people dont get this.
 
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I'm glad the Tories have played it safe with the manifesto. May got complacent two years ago by looking at the polls, and put a load of unpopular stuff in there. This is much better: potholes and nurses, how could you disagree?

Following the leader debates, this was really the last thing that could have been a 'seismic' event. Now I'm looking forward to a double digit lead for BoJo on the 12th.

Anyone else staying up to watch the results?
 

GamingKaiju

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Oof!

But I always glee at watching the SNP get wrecked. The only thing the SNP are good for is beating the drum for Scottish independence when their own record on the NHS, education is worse than the Tories.
 
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azz0r

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Honestly there's going to be no majority again, Labour definitely isn't going to win, the lib dems are going to just take a chunk of London as per, the Tories will get most of the north.
 
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GamingKaiju

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Honestly there's going to be no majority again, Labour definitely isn't going to win, the lib dems are going to just take a chunk of London as per, the Tories will get most of the north.
This is what I’m thinking. Brexit has caused so much of a mess that none of parties have a clue on how to approach it. It would be nice to have an election not focused around Brexit and just good old policies. Maybe next year we can.
 

Gashtronomy

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Labour to launch 'faith' and 'race' manifesto.

Like, why are we listening to the Muslim council on Islamic affairs? Can we stand back a moment and address this. We aren't an Islamic nation, we're barely a catholic/Christian nation anymore. Why are we pandering to this group of people who have, caused a lot of issues within this country and continue to do so? I know that's a generalisation, but it is true.


Further proof that Corbyn is unelectable; He wants to teach the injustice of the British Empire in schools

Maybe Monty Python should come out of retirement and do a "What have the British Empire ever done for us?" Sketch like in Life of Brian.
 

Kazza

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This probably deserves a place in the Clown World thread too. What a plonker :messenger_tears_of_joy:

 
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This is what I’m thinking. Brexit has caused so much of a mess that none of parties have a clue on how to approach it. It would be nice to have an election not focused around Brexit and just good old policies. Maybe next year we can.
This is why I have been fired up about this election because of Brexit, if this happened when it was suppose to then I would probably not have a favourable party and vote who has the most sensible manifesto. Since the shit show has started and self-interest MPs have done everything they can to prevent Brexit from happening, Conservatives are getting my vote especially with my candidate being pro-Brexit.
 

DV27

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Corbyn on the Andrew Neil interviews tonght, BBC1 at 7pm.

Must see TV inbound.
 

GamingKaiju

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Watching Corbyn now and his Brexit position is bollox, staying neutral over his own deal in a 2nd referendum 😒 and within 6 months. Yeh Jezza the EU will laugh you out of the building
🦵> 👨🏻‍🦳> 🏢 > 🇪🇺😂

Him flapping it over the apology to the Jewish community was cringe to the max.

Corbyn credit card 😂


This is why I have been fired up about this election because of Brexit, if this happened when it was suppose to then I would probably not have a favourable party and vote who has the most sensible manifesto. Since the shit show has started and self-interest MPs have done everything they can to prevent Brexit from happening, Conservatives are getting my vote especially with my candidate being pro-Brexit.
What an utter shit show the whole thing has been. If we had just done it in March we would have started to have some direction, the uncertainty would have ended a trade deal would have started to been drawn up and the whole argument would have been drawn to a close and we could have started to move beyond it. Instead we have another election where Brexit is still drawing battle lines.
 
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Bogey

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GamingKaiju

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Well Corbyn flopped harder than FO76 I can see polls shifting away from Labour after that disaster.

Christ how hard is it to say “We need to do better at tackling anti-sentisim in the party and lessons need to be learned so we can evolve our policy’s”.

There I did better than Corbyn did in 15 minutes also his answers over the isis leader were appalling, no mr. Corbyn he wanted to die for what he believed in and was willing to take others with him. A bullet is the only answer.
 
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Gashtronomy

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Just to make sure.. You're being sarcastic right?

There's just to many weird stuff going on it'd sometimes hard to tell when someone is actually serious ;) it still baffles me how many even very well educated Brits have never even heard about a number of events in which the UK was directly responsible for hundred thousands of deaths.
The British, just like any other empire, made some mistakes. However, unlike any other Empire - with maybe the exception of the romans - they saved millions, if not billions, more lives than they could have taken in a millennia.

To say we should be teaching a few atrocities of the Empire is crazy-talk, when most people don't know, or care, that the same 'evil' empire Is responsible for the vast majority of western modern medicine, technology and progress.

So, for Corbyn to use this as a talking point, let alone a manifesto point, is beyond insanity. With how fractured our society is becoming he, as possible future leader and accused communist, wants to fracture it even more? I can't get behind that
 
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hariseldon

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Just to make sure.. You're being sarcastic right?

There's just to many weird stuff going on it'd sometimes hard to tell when someone is actually serious ;) it still baffles me how many even very well educated Brits have never even heard about a number of events in which the UK was directly responsible for hundred thousands of deaths.
Every dominant force has had the same issues. The thing is that this kind of narrative is used to make everyone feel a constant guilt for things they personally had no involvement in. Further, it’s driven by an agenda to take away pride in our nation, and yes we should be proud. We were among the first to end slavery (and by the way very few people seem to realise that everyone was doing it, especially the Africans - the popular narrative is that it’s just a UK and US thing), we have been Democratic for longer than many nations have existed, we fought Hitler, we built up many of our colonies into prospering nations, though sadly independence led to ruin in most cases. The UK can only move forward and become a force for good in the world if it has the confidence to do so, terminal navel gazing will simply lead us to decline and ruin.
 

Bogey

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Every dominant force has had the same issues. The thing is that this kind of narrative is used to make everyone feel a constant guilt for things they personally had no involvement in. Further, it’s driven by an agenda to take away pride in our nation, and yes we should be proud. We were among the first to end slavery (and by the way very few people seem to realise that everyone was doing it, especially the Africans - the popular narrative is that it’s just a UK and US thing), we have been Democratic for longer than many nations have existed, we fought Hitler, we built up many of our colonies into prospering nations, though sadly independence led to ruin in most cases. The UK can only move forward and become a force for good in the world if it has the confidence to do so, terminal navel gazing will simply lead us to decline and ruin.
[...]
To say we should be teaching a few atrocities of the Empire is crazy-talk, when most people don't know, or care, that the same 'evil' empire Is responsible for the vast majority of western modern medicine, technology and progress.
[...]
No doubt - and I'd hope nobody would argue not to teach about the UK's achievements of the past.

Not teaching the bad stuff however can easily lead to ignorance. It was quite odd to see how many of my English friends expected e.g. India (or sometimes even Ireland) to be fully aligned and supportive of the UK - only to find out that the UK isn't exactly.. lets say, seen unconditionally positive over there when it e.g. came to Brexit negotations. That's something that should not really have been a surprise to anyone who knew about more than just the positive sides of their history.
 
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hariseldon

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No doubt - and I'd hope nobody would argue not to teach about the UK's achievements of the past.

Not teaching the bad stuff however can easily lead to ignorance. It was quite odd to see how many of my English friends expected e.g. India (or sometimes even Ireland) to be fully aligned and supportive of the UK - only to find out that the UK isn't exactly.. lets say, seen unconditionally positive over there when it e.g. came to Brexit negotations. That's something that should not really have been a surprise to anyone who knew about more than just the positive sides of their history.
The bolded is the point. The far left very much wants to bury those achievements of the past, which leads to its own kind of ignorance. There's such a strong desire among the Labour party and affiliates to bury any notion of the UK as a positive force for the world. Honestly, we need to learn from history, but education is also about setting kids up for the future and to an extent will play a part in shaping society. Do we want to be buried in original sin or be a forward-looking optimistic nation looking to be a big player on the world stage?

Re your English friends - sadly there are a lot of people who have a poor grasp of history in general I would agree, however should we be beating ourselves around the head for what our ancestors did just because the descendants of the people they wronged don't like us very much? That speaks more of their issues than ours.
 

hariseldon

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hariseldon hariseldon Thanks for making a more eloquent point than I ever could.

My prediction : Labour win the election.
"Win" as in get a majority?

Mate, if you believe that then get thee down the bookies. You will get good odds!
I think an actual Labour majority is out of the question - the numbers are far too far out for that. With that in mind I sincerely hope Labour don't win (and to be clear if the Tories don't win an overall majority then Labour win, forming a coalition government with the SNP, Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru and the single Green MP in Brighton). Consider how unstable that would be, and the absolute mess that would create. The SNP would demand an independence referendum which, if successful, would take Scotland out of the United Kingdom. Electorally that would make the rest of Britain far more governable (the Scottish seats being SNP buggers up the parliamentary maths horribly) and we'd no longer be propping up the Scots (we send them a LOT of money) but it would make it really bloody hard for Labour to get power again (and that independence would force an election as Labour would lose the SNP and thus no longer be able to govern). The risk is real that we'd then become a de facto one-party state under the Tories. That's something I really don't think would do us any good at all.
 
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Gashtronomy

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"Win" as in get a majority?

Mate, if you believe that then get thee down the bookies. You will get good odds!
Labour are unpopular, nobody wants them, not the people, not the business, not the country. Yet, Brexit and Trump were a bit of a shock and seemed to come out of nowhere.

I'm not sure that the sentiment I see online and IRL is reflected all over the country, especially the champagne-socialist south
 

Bogey

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Do we want to be buried in original sin or be a forward-looking optimistic nation looking to be a big player on the world stage?
I get what you mean, but I'd argue you shouldn't be an optimistic, but rather a realistic player.

As in, say, you're a great inventor living in Palestine, who has never harmed anyone nor is very political.
Now the optimist who lacks contextual awareness might try selling their product to Israel, because clearly logistics are cheapest. The realist will probably chose.. Just about any other market first.

however should we be beating ourselves around the head for what our ancestors did just because the descendants of the people they wronged don't like us very much? That speaks more of their issues than ours.
We certainly shouldn't be beating ourselves up over those things - our ancestors crimes aren't ours, we don't hear any responsibility for those.
But to be fair, their achievements aren't ours either.

the best we can do is to learn from what they did well, and avoid what they didn't do well. But indeed that means we ideally need to be aware of both.

Now not everyone is fully rational, and so some people will hold favorable, others unfavorable views of the UK just based on historic events. Even if that's their issue, awareness of that is quite beneficial for, say, negotiations and strategic planning.

So I'd definitely encourage history to be taught quite neutrally, without any "we're the greatest" or "we're all horrible" subtext. Simply because I think it benefits everyone much more than any particularly biased view. (unfortunately, most countries aren't very good at this)
 
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Mar 28, 2017
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Labour are unpopular, nobody wants them, not the people, not the business, not the country. Yet, Brexit and Trump were a bit of a shock and seemed to come out of nowhere.

I'm not sure that the sentiment I see online and IRL is reflected all over the country, especially the champagne-socialist south
Where I live in Doncaster, No body wants Labour apart from NHS workers and people on the "dole". Local polls shows that people are intending to vote for Conservatives which is such a bizarre thought.
 
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AV

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Labour are unpopular, nobody wants them, not the people, not the business, not the country. Yet, Brexit and Trump were a bit of a shock and seemed to come out of nowhere.
Neither were shocking, it's just that in both cases social media was telling you the other thing was going to happen. In general, the people that voted remain, Hillary, Labour, etc. will be the sort of people who spend a lot of time on social media because they're younger, and also thus more likely to be a student, unemployed or only working part time, and in every case have way more time to spend online. Dave from the steel factory is probably not Tweeting a dozen times a day, know what I mean? Not that there's anything inherently wrong with being a young student with liberal tendencies, it's just how the cookie crumbles, the internet massively warps our perception on what's actually going on around us.
 
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Kazza

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The bolded is the point. The far left very much wants to bury those achievements of the past, which leads to its own kind of ignorance. There's such a strong desire among the Labour party and affiliates to bury any notion of the UK as a positive force for the world. Honestly, we need to learn from history, but education is also about setting kids up for the future and to an extent will play a part in shaping society. Do we want to be buried in original sin or be a forward-looking optimistic nation looking to be a big player on the world stage?

Re your English friends - sadly there are a lot of people who have a poor grasp of history in general I would agree, however should we be beating ourselves around the head for what our ancestors did just because the descendants of the people they wronged don't like us very much? That speaks more of their issues than ours.
I think the Labour party wants to encourage this sort of ignorance with its anti-British history curriculum:



It's insane that anyone can genuinely believe this. The first one is bad enough (one would have thought being violently conquered by an invading Muslim army would have been enough to stir up at least a little anti-Islam feeling in India), but that second one...
 

hariseldon

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I get what you mean, but I'd argue you shouldn't be an optimistic, but rather a realistic player.

As in, say, you're a great inventor living in Palestine, who has never harmed anyone nor is very political.
Now the optimist who lacks contextual awareness might try selling their product to Israel, because clearly logistics are cheapest. The realist will probably chose.. Just about any other market first.

We certainly shouldn't be beating ourselves up over those things - our ancestors crimes aren't ours, we don't hear any responsibility for those.
But to be fair, their achievements aren't ours either.

the best we can do is to learn from what they did well, and avoid what they didn't do well. But indeed that means we ideally need to be aware of both.

Now not everyone is fully rational, and so some people will hold favorable, others unfavorable views of the UK just based on historic events. Even if that's their issue, awareness of that is quite beneficial for, say, negotiations and strategic planning.

So I'd definitely encourage history to be taught quite neutrally, without any "we're the greatest" or "we're all horrible" subtext. Simply because I think it benefits everyone much more than any particularly biased view. (unfortunately, most countries aren't very good at this)
I don't think optimistic and realistic are mutually exclusive. A lack of optimism is tremendously harmful and leaves a person defeated before they even start. Your gifted inventor in Palestine is most probably completely fucked if he tries to sell his product to Israel, but having said that probably has a better chance of success than trying to do the same in Palestine (it's worth noting that there are Arabs living in Israel). If he has sense of course he'll look to the countries most favourable to him, so likely other arab nations. I'm not quite sure where you're going with the analogy though because knowing that Israel hates Palestine hardly requires a person to deeply study politics, nor to have a faultless understanding of history and a thorough understanding of each sides actions.

Re "their achievements aren't ours" - you're right that they're not, but they came about as a result of the culture in which the people who did achieve those things existed. They happened because of the enlightenment values found in the west. We should therefore, as inheritors of those values, be proud of those values knowing what they can contribute positively to the world, and we should stand up for them. If we are asked to wallow in shame we weaken people's morale in defence of those values in a world that badly needs them at a time when Russia and China are rising to fill the vacuum of power. And that context is absolutely important - there are those who wish to downplay our achievements, to denigrate the west because of some romantic idealised view of the people we conquered in the past, a view of our place in history, that if unchecked will lead to far worse things - we in the west must be the best possible defence of freedom when those to the East seek to erode it, we must do this by projecting our confident view of the world and of enlightenment thinking. Retreating into our shells and beating ourselves for the sins of our ancestors, and let's be clear that this is the precise goal of many anti-westerners on the left, will leave the stage open for a Russia that is a corrupt mafia-run regime and a Chinese fascism on a scale never before witnessed. Yeah it's a pretty big deal.
 
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hariseldon

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Neither were shocking, it's just that in both cases social media was telling you the other thing was going to happen. In general, the people that voted remain, Hillary, Labour, etc. will be the sort of people who spend a lot of time on social media because they're younger, and also thus more likely to be a student, unemployed or only working part time, and in every case have way more time to spend online. Dave from the steel factory is probably not Tweeting a dozen times a day, know what I mean? Not that there's anything inherently wrong with being a young student with liberal tendencies, it's just how the cookie crumbles, the internet massively warps our perception on what's actually going on around us.
Not just that - when everyone's saying that if you hold position X you're probably a racist bigot you tend to keep quiet about that view and let your vote do the talking.
 
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I think the Labour party wants to encourage this sort of ignorance with its anti-British history curriculum:



It's insane that anyone can genuinely believe this. The first one is bad enough (one would have thought being violently conquered by an invading Muslim army would have been enough to stir up at least a little anti-Islam feeling in India), but that second one...
Incredible😂 yep before 1858 it was all sunshine and daisies. It's not like they had wars, a caste system, widows being thrown on funeral pyres.

I bet that guy thinks he's the most non-racist person ever, but doesn't know or hang out with any actual Indian people.
 

GamingKaiju

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I think the Labour party wants to encourage this sort of ignorance with its anti-British history curriculum:



It's insane that anyone can genuinely believe this. The first one is bad enough (one would have thought being violently conquered by an invading Muslim army would have been enough to stir up at least a little anti-Islam feeling in India), but that second one...
LOL

I saw that post on REEEera and instantly rolled my eyes. The guy is a clown if he thinks it was the British that stirred up the hatred in the region. It beggars believe that people are so naive to think like that. The Empire did some shit but generally brought more good than bad to many areas of the world. In many cases Country's went off the deep end after they were granted independence.
 

DeepEnigma

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I think the Labour party wants to encourage this sort of ignorance with its anti-British history curriculum:



It's insane that anyone can genuinely believe this. The first one is bad enough (one would have thought being violently conquered by an invading Muslim army would have been enough to stir up at least a little anti-Islam feeling in India), but that second one...
Now that, that there is Reetarded.

These "closet" racists are so full of shit.
 
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ROMhack

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At the end of the day I totally get why people are critical of Labour. Some of their policies seem unfeasible and their recent assault on billionaires is misguided and unambitious. But man oh man, I can't understand for the life of me why non-wealthy people would ever vote Tory. Given who represents them as a party means they don't give a rat's arse about ordinary people. They're the leading voice of people born into very wealthy families and who have a level of privilege that we could really only dream of — I'm talking about your Boris Johnson's and Rees-Mogg's here as opposed to the made-up kind that Internet warriors go on about. I'm not even sure they care about pro-business people anymore these days unless they're literally earning millions.

Granted I'm not sure I'd like to see Corbyn in power but I'd really like to see the decline of food banks (crazy btw) and more starter homes being built so that people like myself can get a foothold on the social ladder.

P.s. Sorry for sounding impassioned. I usually try to refrain from yelling online but I'm quite sick of this now.
 
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