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[Emedan]

Then delay the release until the game is full? What a retarded request..

 

[Saber]

Reviewers can do whatever they want. If I worked for a gaming outlet, I personally wouldn't review a game until I've completed it or, in this case, experienced its end-game.

If we take another Bungie game, Destiny 2, for example, it would be like finishing the story and reviewing it there. You've barely scratched the surface at that point.

If they're suggesting reviewers hold off, then the end-game content for this must be substantial and will most likely be a core part of the gameplay loop.

You aways end up falling through your own argument.
If this suggests that end-game is substantial then why not launch the game with it? Couldn't delay because want that sweet start money?
The whole concept of asking review outlets to hold of their reviews is stupid. A game should be reviewed for what actually is, not whats gonna be in the future. If then that happens, reviews can be updated to reflect the changes. Btw nice touch with the "reviews can do whatever they want", I clearly didn't knew that lol

 

[midnightAI]

No. But how many studios formally ask game sites to delay reviews?

dunno, wouldn't surprise me if there's a few though that just don't make the news (I'd expect a good many because a Raid is dropping soon after launch), either way, they aren't stopping them from reviewing it if they want to. What is normal is the release of content on an ongoing basis which is why I initially replied to your 'unfinished game' comment as that's completely normal for a live service game, the whole point is they aren't finished, if it was then it wouldn't be live service.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Who is terrified now?.... Fucking clowns

 

[Stuart360]

Although stuff like this will go on all the time, this still smells a little shady, and very cringe.

 

[Success]

This is actually a crazy request.

 

[Aressa]

My understanding is this isn't uncommon for GAAS releases that have their bigger "events" dropping a couple of weeks later (because nobody would be able to play them anyways as not enough people are leveled up.) IGN's Arc Raiders review didn't have a score until their raid dropped IIRC. Don't know if the dev "requested" that but IGN did it anyways because it's what kind of makes sense.

Multiplayer games are interesting like that in general as it's hard to review them without there just being a large diverse player base to interact with. Reviews should never drop day-of because that's just kind of shady as a reviewer.

Betas and early access exist for a reason. When a game hits release then you're saying it's ready. Reviews should reflect the state of the product at RELEASE not what it might become later.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Betas and early access exist for a reason. When a game hits release then you're saying it's ready. Reviews should reflect the state of the product at RELEASE not what it might become later.

And I don't really care if they do a day 1 review.

But that review is only going to be so useful. They can tell you about the basic gameplay hook of course which is totally fair.

But they should also point out that the game is designed around playing through a "Season" and that they can't tell the consumer how that will play out.

A lot of reviewers do the "Day one" thing but don't score it if they know there's soon to happen endgame content. It's not a "might become later" situation it's a "this is literally content that will unlock in 2 weeks" situation.

Many consumers don't want to jump in a GAAS game day one for this reason, it's a risky game design because of that. It's also why some flops have recovered over time and grown.

 

[midnightAI]

This is actually a crazy request.

Not for Bungie it isnt, they requested the same for Destiny and Detiny 2

 

[nikos]

You aways end up falling through your own argument.
If this suggests that end-game is substantial then why not launch the game with it? The whole concept of asking to devs to hold of their reviews is stupid. A game should be reviewed for what actually is, not whats gonna be in the future. If then that happens, reviews can be updated to reflect the changes. Btw nice touch with the "reviews can do whatever they want", I clearly didn't knew that lol

It's a live service game, you're not supposed to hammer through it. You're meant to slowly progress towards a goal before new content drops and progress further.

I don't know how much time it takes to get there, but after six hours I feel like I've barely seen anything and I'd be surprised if anyone was even ready to enter the Cryo Archive a day after release unless they've been playing non-stop.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Then delay the release until the game is full? What a retarded request..

You aways end up falling through your own argument.
If this suggests that end-game is substantial then why not launch the game with it? Couldn't delay because want that sweet start money?
The whole concept of asking review outlets to hold of their reviews is stupid. A game should be reviewed for what actually is, not whats gonna be in the future. If then that happens, reviews can be updated to reflect the changes. Btw nice touch with the "reviews can do whatever they want", I clearly didn't knew that lol

Who is terrified now?.... Fucking clowns

Although stuff like this will go on all the time, this still smells a little shady, and very cringe.

This is actually a crazy request.

Betas and early access exist for a reason. When a game hits release then you're saying it's ready. Reviews should reflect the state of the product at RELEASE not what it might become later.

Literally, I explained why on the last page. Its already done. Its to give onboarding time for the players. People use to be pissed for d1/d2 when the raids released like 2 or 3 days after content drops. Ie the Last Wish raid. The reason for the delay is for people to have time to get familiar and people not just zooming to the endgame content first while most normal people who cant play 12 hours day have time to experience the same time. Bungie has been doing this all through D1and D2. Clearly none of you played Bungie's last games for any extent to realize this is normally how it goes.

 

[Saber]

It's a live service game, you're not supposed to hammer through it.

According to who? Is there a rule that makes so reviews should not review a finished product? So far theres not a single counter-argument for that.
I will make it simple. If Bungie launched Marathon on 5, it is because they are confident this is the product. Using live service bullcrap as an excuse changes nothing. If they though a big content would make a difference then they could pretty much wait until its done and launch when its ready. That way it would not have any need to ask reviewers to hold their reviews.

 

[Success]

Clearly none of you played Bungie's last games for any extent to realize this is normally how it goes.

And that is why Bungie is failing as a company.

They are out of touch with modern audiences.

 

[Bondo]

I see both sides of this i suppose.

You get reviewed for the product you release. Simple as that.

I however see- like Destiny release and waiting on Raid for review. The raid is a core component of endgame in destiny-- you sorta need to include that in any review even if it came later. It doesnt need to release at launch, nobody is or was ready. It allows devs a few extra weeks to fine tune that endgame content.

That being said. Maybe an initial review and follow it up with a final.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

And that is why Bungie is failing as a company.

They are out of touch with modern audiences.

Because they are doing what most of the audience wanted?

 

[simpatico]

Plz don't review our game

 

[MMaRsu]

My understanding is this isn't uncommon for GAAS releases that have their bigger "events" dropping a couple of weeks later (because nobody would be able to play them anyways as not enough people are leveled up.) IGN's Arc Raiders review didn't have a score until their raid dropped IIRC. Don't know if the dev "requested" that but IGN did it anyways because it's what kind of makes sense.

Multiplayer games are interesting like that in general as it's hard to review them without there just being a large diverse player base to interact with. Reviews should never drop day-of because that's just kind of shady as a reviewer.

What raid

 

[Emedan]

Literally, I explained why on the last page. Its already done. Its to give onboarding time for the players. People use to be pissed for d1/d2 when the raids released like 2 or 3 days after content drops. Ie the Last Wish raid. The reason for the delay is for people to have time to get familiar and people not just zooming to the endgame content first while most normal people who cant play 12 hours day have time to experience the same time. Bungie has been doing this all through D1and D2. Clearly none of you played Bungie's last games for any extent to realize this is normally how it goes.

Still sounds retarded to me

 

[dottme]

There was a period we were complaining when review were only the day before release. Now the review are 2 weeks after released. soon review will be 2 months after release so they got time to patch all the bugs.

 

[MMaRsu]

The job of journalists is to inform the consumer about quality of said product when it releases, if they should fork over their 40€ or not.

You can obviously say "this is my review after a few days playing, content in the game is subject to change due to the live service nature of the game".

That doesnt mean your review isnt valid.

Bungie apologists need to get real

 

[Plague Doctor]

There was a period we were complaining when review were only the day before release. Now the review are 2 weeks after released. soon review will be 2 months after release so they got time to patch all the bugs.

I know. It's nuts.

Now embargos are requests to give them 2 additional weeks post launch.

Please don't hurt our launch sales.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Still sounds retarded to me

Well if you looked at the history of endgame content and release times with the Destiny series it would make sense. I have 1000s of hours in the series so I have seen how it has evolved and why.

 

[IntentionalPun]

What raid

I don't play the game, sorry misspoke, but there was a content drop 2 weeks after release just like Marathon and IGN didn't post their review until it was out.

I've seen a bunch of reviewers comment none of this is particularly strange for these types of games. It happened with Destiny and Destiny 2.

 

[DR3AM]

Its been 5 years since Cyberpunk came out, its time to finally review it

 

[Fake]

Consumers should also play the game without paying until the game is complete.

This is not a mandate, just a request/suggestion.

 

[MMaRsu]

I don't play the game, sorry misspoke, but there was a content drop 2 weeks after release just like Marathon and IGN didn't post their review until it was out.

It must not have been much of a content drop because i cant remember anything really changed close to launch bigtime

 

[Hari Seldon]

If you release a product for a fee then it is fair game to review it. If bungie can't launch content complete with hundreds of devs spending half a decade on this then fuck em.

 

[diffusionx]

Its been 5 years since Cyberpunk came out, its time to finally review it

not trying to be akshully guy but iirc a lot of sites did re-review the game when they released the ps5/xsx versions with the overhaul patch

 

[ReyBrujo]

Nice of Bungie to give a heads up to reviewers. They surely wouldn't want to be caught offside saying the game is bad when they didn't even try the pinnacle experience.

 

[PeteBull]

And that is why Bungie is failing as a company.

They are out of touch with modern audiences.

There is no such thing as "modern audience", its keyword for women, and they dont buy videogames at launch for the most part.

 

[Radical_3d]

Its been 5 years since Cyberpunk came out, its time to finally review it

I retire all the Spanish words I've shouted at my phone when I read a comment of yours.

 

[nikos]

According to who? Is there a rule that makes so reviews should not review a finished product? So far theres not a single counter-argument for that.
I will make it simple. If Bungie launched Marathon on 5, it is because they are confident this is the product. Using live service bullcrap as an excuse changes nothing. If they though a big content would make a difference then they could pretty much wait until its done and launch when its ready. That way it would not have any need to ask reviewers to hold their reviews.

According to the way these games are designed, and have been for decades.

I must be getting baited at this point. Wasted too much time with you. Enjoy spending your entire day trolling Marathon threads.

 

[IntentionalPun]

It must not have been much of a content drop because i cant remember anything really changed close to launch bigtime

The Frontier Expands North | ARC Raiders

ARC Raiders is a multiplayer extraction adventure, set in a lethal future earth, ravaged by a mysterious mechanized threat known as ARC.

arcraiders.com

In the end it's whatever, like I said, don't care that much. Reviews for games that have content dropping every few weeks on a schedule just are never going to be very "complete." It's the entire nature of GAAS.

 

[Gamer79]

 

[Stuart360]

IMO if a game is available to BUY, then a review for that paid product is fair.

The whole point of reviews (or it used to be) was for customers to get an informed view before spending their money.

 

[Gamer79]

Can't wait to see this game turn into the next concord

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

If you released a retail product, people should and will review it based on its current merits. It's really simple. If that's not representative of the "final product", don't charge money for it yet.

 

[Emedan]

Well if you looked at the history of endgame content and release times with the Destiny series it would make sense. I have 1000s of hours in the series so I have seen how it has evolved and why.

So I guess we'll have to tell reviewers to go out, wait for the second coming of Jesus Christ, fuck a goat then come back to review the game when its feature complete?

 

[Aressa]

And I don't really care if they do a day 1 review.

But that review is only going to be so useful. They can tell you about the basic gameplay hook of course which is totally fair.

But they should also point out that the game is designed around playing through a "Season" and that they can't tell the consumer how that will play out.

A lot of reviewers do the "Day one" thing but don't score it if they know there's soon to happen endgame content. It's not a "might become later" situation it's a "this is literally content that will unlock in 2 weeks" situation.

Many consumers don't want to jump in a GAAS game day one for this reason, it's a risky game design because of that. It's also why some flops have recovered over time and grown.

Then just drop your game complete 2 weeks later. "Evolving" isn't an excuse to dodge judging the released product. Reviewers didn't wait for NMS or CP77. Those turned into totally different games post-launch.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Consumers should also play the game without paying until the game is complete.

This is not a mandate, just a request/suggestion.

Fun > Complete

 

[Guardian Monkey]

So I guess we'll have to tell reviewers to go out, wait for the second coming of Jesus Christ, fuck a goat then come back to review the game when its feature complete?

It shouldn't be a surprise to people that have covered their games in the past. They dont have to abide, thats the reviewers choice. Most will do an in progress review as it normally has been done before. This isnt reinventing the wheel here.

 

[Chittagong]

Xbox = Marathon
PlayStation = Resident Evil Requiem

 

[Moondoggy]

They're basically saying, "Guys please don't review this build of the game, it's basically the beta build and not finished", except it's not, it's the 1.0, release version of the game that you charged people money to play.

 

[neo raider]

Why not have this on the day of release? Or push back release when that content is ready?

They wanna sell as many copies as they can before the end of Q4

Idk whether to feel sorry for bungie or laugh because they did this to themselves

 

[Last Hearth]

I see both sides of this i suppose.

You get reviewed for the product you release. Simple as that.

I however see- like Destiny release and waiting on Raid for review. The raid is a core component of endgame in destiny-- you sorta need to include that in any review even if it came later. It doesnt need to release at launch, nobody is or was ready. It allows devs a few extra weeks to fine tune that endgame content.

That being said. Maybe an initial review and follow it up with a final.

It's actually pretty simple, just make sure the non-endgame part of the game is good, so early reviews based on that part will be positive.

This is them getting in front of meh reviews that they fear is going to come out about their early to mid game. (They don't actually believe that any reviewer is going to not release a review for 3 weeks waiting for them to release more content.)

 

[epicurius-seven]

Reviews are a not a sprint guys, they're a… Marathon.

 

[VGA-Games]

Disgusting!!!

 

[Arsic]

If I'm a publication I would rate it now, and say we will adjust the score if the 4th map/raid/event changes our mind of the overall product.

The thing is it's out - NOW. People are spending money on NOW, not what will be. Should've launched the event to occur within 5 days of launch- then it's reasonable. But a whole month? Nah.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Bungie has been doing this all through D1and D2.

You are 3/4 of the way there, buddy.

 

[Bernardougf]

Really stupid. Steam user reviews are very good so why not show some confidence from that.

After all the turmoil surrounding this game for many months, the alpha, the beta, the server slam... who bought this game blind ? I'll bet the majority of people buying and playing liked already beforehand .