TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Bet they didn't ask their customers to delay their payment.
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Bungie asks sites to delay Marathon reviews, with release date Steam player count below 100K
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Business Game Dev
laynelane
Member
Releasing incomplete games is already an issue with many games over the last few years, but asking for reviews to be delayed really shows off the problem. Did Bungie think it was good enough to stand on its own without the additional content only to realize that wasn't true upon audience reception? If so, that attitude itself - 'good enough' - shows a rather large problem with their approach.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Unknown Soldier
Banned
Forget RE Requiem (5M copies sold in a week), let's talk about how super indie Slay the Spire 2 is CCUmogging Marathon right now
Xbox = Marathon
PlayStation = Resident Evil Requiem
tmlDan
Member
this is such a dumb comment, its actually baffling. The game is complete, but it has stages to allow players to unlock an extra level and gain loot strong enough to compete in things like ranked mode. Its entirely logical and you're being illogical
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LyricalShrike
Member
A complete game that asks for money is a game that should be reviewed. What's the point of professional reviewers if not to provide advice on products? Acquiescing to Bungie's "request" further shifts games media into a marketing function for games. Fine if so. They should be forced to label all of their output as ads in the same way regulators chased streamers to disclose their collaboration with businesses.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Tip for any game site reviewers. When the next content update drops and you still dont really like it, please dont post the review.
Wait for content update #2 in June. If you like it, then do the review.
Thanks,
Bungie PR team
Wait for content update #2 in June. If you like it, then do the review.
Thanks,
Bungie PR team
tmlDan
Member
As has been said by many reviewers its a request, its not a mandatory. You and many in this thread are being way too dramatic about this
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Exactly.
But give video game companies credit for grifting reviews as best as possible. What they probably do is track review scores by site. If a site grills Marathon with an early crap review, they probably blacklist them. But then the sites who give a good score end of month after the content drop, they are in the good books.
Imagine if car review sites couldnt do their review until all warranty fixes are done, and all software updates are downloaded. As everyone knows, when you buy a new car it might have various issues that need a free warranty fix in the first 6 months as the kinks need to get sorted out.
All the car makers tell them to give them a break and dont do reviews until all fixes are done first. How absurd.
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Guardian Monkey
Member
I did not know warranty issues were features people looked forward too.
ZehDon
Banned
If Bungie thinks the game is so utterly incomplete without this single map as to warrant delaying reviews, then no - my comment is perfectly acceptable. Release the game complete or shut the fuck up.
tmlDan
Member
Again, its not being forced on reviewers they just recommend it, you people are fucking insane.
Guardian Monkey
Member
Clearly this game is too complicated for some people to wrap their head around how this all works.
clarky
Gold Member
Would you accept a review of M Knight Shalamabobs The Happening without watching the last 20 miniutes and finding out the twist was the was no twist?
What if you reviewed a chicken Kiev but didn't get to the middle?
This is not a single player title. It's a serial and should not be treated in the same way. You pay up front for content that will be released over the course of 12 weeks. Maybe its front loaded and the promises are hollow, who knows?
At best we should see reviews in progress. Destiny was terrible at launch and received a well earned 6 or 7 two weeks later it delivered one of the best pieces of content in videogame history.
Difference with Marathon is the early game is phenomenal but questions remain over the long game.
Would you all accept a review of Crimson Desert if the reviewer only played the intro and first area and gave it a 4?
What if you reviewed a chicken Kiev but didn't get to the middle?
This is not a single player title. It's a serial and should not be treated in the same way. You pay up front for content that will be released over the course of 12 weeks. Maybe its front loaded and the promises are hollow, who knows?
At best we should see reviews in progress. Destiny was terrible at launch and received a well earned 6 or 7 two weeks later it delivered one of the best pieces of content in videogame history.
Difference with Marathon is the early game is phenomenal but questions remain over the long game.
Would you all accept a review of Crimson Desert if the reviewer only played the intro and first area and gave it a 4?
Zamana
Gold Member
The reviewers complying to this know that Sony could blacklist them, so no quick reviews = hurts their ads/views = less money.
There's no integrity or pride or ethics or anything that these game bloggers have, they do it for the money and connections and access.
Second, I also think that the article about Sony stopping PC development came out in the wrong time lol, this definitely might have pissed PC gamers to not buy Sony games on PC.
There's no integrity or pride or ethics or anything that these game bloggers have, they do it for the money and connections and access.
Second, I also think that the article about Sony stopping PC development came out in the wrong time lol, this definitely might have pissed PC gamers to not buy Sony games on PC.
Robochobo
Member
They recommend it but what happens if you don't? What's to say they don't get blacklisted? This is strong arming, plain and simple.
EverydayBeast
ChatShitGPT Alpha 0.001
Games today evolve over time I think all reviews should be delayed a year later minimum
BloodFree
Member
If that was how the game released and the "first area" was all that there was in the game at the time, yes ? No Man's Sky didn't ask reviewers to wait until they got more in the game and it was trashed at the time.
I paid for the game now, not a year from now. They are welcome to revisit it then and rescore it, if the game is different.
BloodFree
Member
It's ridiculous. It's the equivalent of the boss suggesting you to stay after hours for additional work. It's not "required" sure, but guess what the consequences will be if you don't.
Itchy Tickles
Member
"Hello, could I order a burger and chips please"
"Here's a cow and a potato, £34.99 please"
"I paid for a burger and chips, not this"
"Wait 2 weeks for it to be ready"
"I paid full price for it now"
"Yeah, but we know the product we sold you is undercooked and our lack of preparation and dedication to sell a finished meal on time might make us look bad. Oh, and tell your friends to wait 2 weeks too if they ordered or were gifted something"
"Why are you selling something now that is weeks away from being in a state that even you are happy with?"
"Have a good day and if you want, you can upgrade to deluxe meal version too. We provide options for our loyal customers"
The places not reviewing this game for fear of missing out on free game codes in the future are spineless and have no credibility, if they ever had a drop to begin with. It might be a fine game for what it is (not my cuppa tea), but this is some boot licking by reviewers for a studio that many here even voted would be next to close. Imagine treating a studio this size like a kids drawing for the fridge door.
"Here's a cow and a potato, £34.99 please"
"I paid for a burger and chips, not this"
"Wait 2 weeks for it to be ready"
"I paid full price for it now"
"Yeah, but we know the product we sold you is undercooked and our lack of preparation and dedication to sell a finished meal on time might make us look bad. Oh, and tell your friends to wait 2 weeks too if they ordered or were gifted something"
"Why are you selling something now that is weeks away from being in a state that even you are happy with?"
"Have a good day and if you want, you can upgrade to deluxe meal version too. We provide options for our loyal customers"
The places not reviewing this game for fear of missing out on free game codes in the future are spineless and have no credibility, if they ever had a drop to begin with. It might be a fine game for what it is (not my cuppa tea), but this is some boot licking by reviewers for a studio that many here even voted would be next to close. Imagine treating a studio this size like a kids drawing for the fridge door.
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Angry_Megalodon
Member
It should be as easy as reviewing the base game and each big update separately. Even if this was F2P, players need to know how the game launches.
If the end game is missing, it should lower the score, since people are paying for an incomplete product.
It's amazing this is debatable.
clarky
Gold Member
Totally different and you know it.
uncreativename
Member
The second half of March lol. That's a really big ask considering people will have already stopped checking for Marathon reviews soon. Bungie panicking.
Pejo
Gold Member
The part that really chapped my ass was the "To be clear, this isn't a mandate, just a request/suggestion" at the very end. The fucking audacity that they felt that they have the ability to mandate such a thing to begin with, or that it needed to be said.
"Sure, we could blacklist you from any future insider looks or press kits, but we never would. We know you'll make the right choice here..."
"Sure, we could blacklist you from any future insider looks or press kits, but we never would. We know you'll make the right choice here..."
clarky
Gold Member
What like a week away when the last map launches? Whys that a big ask?
majestix1988
Member
even thinking all numbers on steamdb are really its playerbase count(doesnt event count consoles)
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clarky
Gold Member
Nobody is you fucking clown.Who is terrified now?.... Fucking clowns
ChorizoPicozo
Member
MMaRsu
Member
Because a map does not change the game
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
This map and event is like vault of glass from Destiny, or a raid in any mmo.
Destiny without VoG is an "ok" game. With it? Amazing.
clarky
Gold Member
I disagree. It's a significant portion of the game.
Do you think Vault of glass was an insignificant part of Destiny?
nikos
Member
We paid for a live service game that's going to have continual updates.
Calling a game "incomplete" because a future update has yet to release is insane. The whole point of these games is that they get updated and evolve over time.
Seems like people have a really hard time grasping that concept.
Unknown Soldier
Banned
And yet Destiny had reviews on day 1, not delayed until VoG was released??? What is even your point here?
clarky
Gold Member
Destiny would have scored differently if they would have reviewed the whole game. The game was border line ass until VOG. That shit saved the whole franchise.
Comandr
Member
Terrible take.
If a reviewer publishes a review after only playing a small portion of the game, they are a bad reviewer.
If a developer ships a paid game with only a fraction of its intended content, people have the right to know that.
If I was going to purchase a game, and someone told me hey wait, this game is $40 right now but only contains 1/5 of its proposed content and there's no end game right now - I'm going to fuckin' wait. The consumer has everything to gain and nothing to lose. The game will inevitably go on sale, there will be more content, and many early launch bugs or issues will have been resolved.
Oh my, would you look at the time! Checks watch. It's nearly the end of the Japanese fiscal year!
Many games get pushed out the door early during the first part of the year to hit fiscal year goals. In a number of countries, including Japan, the home of Bungie's new parent company, Sony- the fiscal year begins in April, so March is the last opportunity to make annual sales goals look good. Monster Hunter Wilds was a victim of this. As the 6th mainline entry in a hugely popular series, anticipation was through the roof, and the sales proved it. An enormous 8 million copies in the opening week. 8 million people disappointed when the game was riddled with bugs, poor performance, an unfinished end game, and overall lack of polish. A year later, the game is in a totally different state now.
Not long after its launch, Wilds' review score was Overwhelmingly Negative on Steam and was being absolutely lambasted by many outlets. It has now- a year later- clawed its way back to Mostly Positive; but you only get one first impression. A huge amount of people will have played the game in the beginning, been turned off by the relatively terrible state that it was in, and never ever go back, and they certainly won't purchase the DLC. If that was their first attempt at a MH game, they might say wow this sucks, I'll never make this mistake again and never engage with the series again. That is the absolute worst case scenario for Capcom. But, I'm sure the investors are very happy that FY2024 ended strong. Nevermind the insane reputational damage that the series and company endured.
Bungie is very much in the same boat. They have publicly admitted they know about some of the most divisive issues and have promised to address them, but that does fuck all for people buying the game and playing it today. The game should have been delayed again to address these problems- but there was literally no time left in this fiscal year for them to do that. Without any critical, game breaking bugs, good enough is just going to have to be good enough for right now. I think the biggest key difference here is that Marathon seems to be well liked by the people that play it. The core issue is that so many are just utterly repulsed by the art, and UI. Myself included. I think Marathon is one of the ugliest games I've ever seen, and I have no desire to play it because of that.
People have a right to know what that experience is like, today, now, day one, when Bungie has released the game for SALE. The promises of tomorrow don't fix the problems of today for current players. Unlike Monster Hunter, which is pretty unique in its genre, there are a thousand other GaaS extraction shooters to play right now and I'm afraid that players are going to quickly go back to those other more fleshed out games. Frankly I don't see this ending well for Marathon or Bungie, who is fighting tooth and nail to retain more current players than a pixel art farming game released 10 years ago by a single guy.
clarky
Gold Member
Then do a review in progress. They aren't launching it content incomplete like the examples you gave or broken like Cyberpunk.Terrible take.
If a reviewer publishes a review after only playing a small portion of the game, they are a bad reviewer.
If a developer ships a paid game with only a fraction of its intended content, people have the right to know that.
If I was going to purchase a game, and someone told me hey wait, this game is $40 right now but only contains 1/5 of its proposed content and there's no end game right now - I'm going to fuckin' wait. The consumer has everything to gain and nothing to lose. The game will inevitably go on sale, there will be more content, and many early launch bugs or issues will have been resolved.
Oh my, would you look at the time! Checks watch. It's nearly the end of the Japanese fiscal year!
Many games get pushed out the door early during the first part of the year to hit fiscal year goals. In a number of countries, including Japan, the home of Bungie's new parent company, Sony- the fiscal year begins in April, so March is the last opportunity to make annual sales goals look good. Monster Hunter Wilds was a victim of this. As the 6th mainline entry in a hugely popular series, anticipation was through the roof, and the sales proved it. An enormous 8 million copies in the opening week. 8 million people disappointed when the game was riddled with bugs, poor performance, an unfinished end game, and overall lack of polish. A year later, the game is in a totally different state now.
Not long after its launch, Wilds' review score was Overwhelmingly Negative on Steam and was being absolutely lambasted by many outlets. It has now- a year later- clawed its way back to Mostly Positive; but you only get one first impression. A huge amount of people will have played the game in the beginning, been turned off by the relatively terrible state that it was in, and never ever go back, and they certainly won't purchase the DLC. If that was their first attempt at a MH game, they might say wow this sucks, I'll never make this mistake again and never engage with the series again. That is the absolute worst case scenario for Capcom. But, I'm sure the investors are very happy that FY2024 ended strong. Nevermind the insane reputational damage that the series and company endured.
Bungie is very much in the same boat. They have publicly admitted they know about some of the most divisive issues and have promised to address them, but that does fuck all for people buying the game and playing it today. The game should have been delayed again to address these problems- but there was literally no time left in this fiscal year for them to do that. Without any critical, game breaking bugs, good enough is just going to have to be good enough for right now. I think the biggest key difference here is that Marathon seems to be well liked by the people that play it. The core issue is that so many are just utterly repulsed by the art, and UI. Myself included. I think Marathon is one of the ugliest games I've ever seen, and I have no desire to play it because of that.
People have a right to know what that experience is like, today, now, day one, when Bungie has released the game for SALE. The promises of tomorrow don't fix the problems of today for current players. Unlike Monster Hunter, which is pretty unique in its genre, there are a thousand other GaaS extraction shooters to play right now and I'm afraid that players are going to quickly go back to those other more fleshed out games. Frankly I don't see this ending well for Marathon or Bungie, who is fighting tooth and nail to retain more current players than a pixel art farming game released 10 years ago by a single guy.
Bungie is holding the end game map back so people who actually have a life can be ready for it at the same time as no lifers so we can all have a crack at it at the same time. This isn't difficult to understand.
Maybe the "Raid" is ass or maybe its the second coming of Christ but it should absolutely be considered when assessing the product.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Two points to this :
-Game should be reviewed as is, and updated at a later date if this content moves the needle.
-Bungie should've learned from Destiny 1 to NOT do shit like this. Let the sweaty people run to unlock map 4 and us see what the big deal is.
Comandr
Member
What's the point of a review in progress? Because if it's not incomplete, they wouldn't be asking people to wait until there was more content to review? Hello?
So Polygon or IGN or whatever says okay well the game right now isn't in a great spot but we'll update the review as more comes out.
People read that review and say oh okay well it sounds like there's not a lot of content - how many people do you think are going to come back later and read the review again? I reiterate, you only get one first impression, and that includes reviews.
Many review sites never even bother coming back to update the review. For instance, Grounded 2 has a review in progress from GameSpot from 8 months ago. The game is still at 0.3.0.3 on steam. Pretty fuckin long from 1.0 if you ask me. How long is it going to be before its "released?" Is GameSpot going to go back and waste resources reviewing a several-year old game at that point? Will anyone even give a shit anymore?
So how long are you supposed to wait to review a game? When it's "complete?" "mostly complete?" This is just moving goalposts. People have the right to know what the value proposition is of a game the day they buy it, and that's the day it's first on sale. End of story.
This is especially true here because there is no guarantee that Sony won't pull the plug and kill Marathon in the nearish future if its fortunes don't really turn around. Highguard came out less than 2 months ago and was still working on addressing player feedback and adding new maps, features, modes, etc. Then the plug got pulled. How long should reviewers have waited for a full review of the game?
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clarky
Gold Member
I dunno. The score is the score. That's what sticks. Regardless of what comes after
Nah. I don't want no lifers spoiling the fun. Destiny raids, at least the good ones were hype as fuck when nobody knew anything. If Cryo Archive was available now then the sweats would have already cracked it and it would be all over the net.
No fun in solving a Rubik's cube if some cunts done it for you and there is a guide available
MMaRsu
Member
This isnt destiny and a map does in an extraction shooter isnt a raid
And yes I think vault of glass doesnt change what Destiny is at its core.
uncreativename
Member
Because most of the sales for games happen right around launch, and these already dying games journalism sites need the traffic from those people. By then most of those potential buyers checking reviews and gameplay will have already made up their minds.
That's not to say that I have any sympathy. Most of those sites deserve to die, but if I put myself in their shoes for a minute, I wouldn't be very happy with Bungie
.
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clarky
Gold Member
Grounded is and early access title I don't see how that relevant.
You are supposed to wait until you can review the whole product. You are coming at this from the way single player titles that release content complete day one, like a movie if you will. Obviously GAAS titles change over a long period of time but in Marathons case its very clear what you are buying and when the content will be available. Thats what should be reviewed. Would you consider a review of only episode 1-4 of a tv show a comprehensive measured assessment of the complete Season?
If someone recommended me The game Of Thrones or Lost box set but only watched seasons 1-4 I'd hunt them down and set them on fire for wasting my time.
BTW you are all assuming that Bungie are asking them to hang fire on reviews because they are afraid it will review badly. That isn't the case the early game is fantastic, don't take my word for it, just look at the Steam user reviews. But that doesn't fit you guys narrative does it?
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uncreativename
Member
I actually think Marathon looks just fine btw. Not incredible, but definitely way better than the Concords and Highguards of the world.
I think the problem is that Bungie and Sony really need this one to hit, and it's had a troubled production, so they're freaking out.
I think the problem is that Bungie and Sony really need this one to hit, and it's had a troubled production, so they're freaking out.
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