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[AceBandage]

Problem is building a Wii engine from the ground up is really pretty pointless in a wider sense. On the PC/360/PS3 there are games tailored to ther specific strenghts BUT the base line similarites between the systems (PS3 and 360 pretty much have equivelant graphical capbilites and similar processor architechture being PowerPC based, the 360 having most of it's games throttles through DirectX makes PC/360 much more simple etc etc) make it appilcable to the other systems.


Making a game engine for the bottem end hardware of the Wii has one use, the Wii.

And at the other end of the spectrum, there's probably a few dozen engines that developers could license on the Wii that would look a billion times better than what they do now.
Or when a company does use an older engine (RE4 engine in Chop Till You Drop), they just completely butcher it for no reason.
It's less to do with the Wii being underpowered, and more to do with them putting D level teams on all their games.

 

[EatChildren]

And at the other end of the spectrum, there's probably a few dozen engines that developers could license on the Wii that would look a billion times better than what they do now.
Or when a company does use an older engine (RE4 engine in Chop Till You Drop), they just completely butcher it for no reason.
It's less to do with the Wii being underpowered, and more to do with them putting D level teams on all their games.

RE4 is a special case though. It's got a fantastic engine, but it looks so good thanks to a lot of artistic tricks used, and just a phenominal overall art direction. It looks like ass in Chop Till You Drop because as an engine it's pretty terrible in terms of just copy/pasting.

RE4 is the prime example of a game where very clever use of art assets and a strong art direction helped push the title to look even better. To get similar quality from the same engine just as much care and attention will be required.

 

[Disguises]

And at the other end of the spectrum, there's probably a few dozen engines that developers could license on the Wii that would look a billion times better than what they do now.

I'm hoping High voltage sofware license out their custom built engine to other developers. Conduit didn't look THAT bad and I think other devs could do something pretty impressive with this engine.

 

[BoloTheGreat]

And at the other end of the spectrum, there's probably a few dozen engines that developers could license on the Wii that would look a billion times better than what they do now.
Or when a company does use an older engine (RE4 engine in Chop Till You Drop), they just completely butcher it for no reason.
It's less to do with the Wii being underpowered, and more to do with them putting D level teams on all their games.

One follows from the other, the lack of tech leads to a lack of ambition. what is the point in developing an engine that is already out of date? most compaines are looking to break new ground (many like Crytek looking to the next generation) whist most programmers would simply not like to be so constrained by a console that essetally has the rendering power of a lemon when compared to modern PC GPUs.

I can imagine there is a long low groan in the office when a programming team member or texture artist finds they have been releagted to the "Wii Version". The Wii is not exactly the most fertile groud nowerdays either, short of a few intersting expements there has been very little attempt to live up to the slickness and production vaules of the graphical big boys. Not to mention many third party titles dying on the sales front.

 

[AceBandage]

One follows from the other, the lack of tech leads to a lack of ambition. what is the point in developing an engine that is already out of date? most compaines are looking to break new ground (many like Crytek looking to the next generation) whist most programmers would simply not like to be so constrained by a console that essetally has the rendering power of a lemon when compared to modern PC GPUs.

I can imagine there is a long low groan in the office when a programming team member or texture artist finds they have been releagted to the "Wii Version". The Wii is not exactly the most fertile groud nowerdays either, short of a few intersting expements there has been very little attempt to live up to the slickness and production vaules of the graphical big boys. Not to mention many third party titles dying on the sales front.

Which is a shame, since the Wii can produce some beautiful textures, and few next gen games have come close to producing textures as clean as say Metroid Prime or Galaxy.

 

[fyzxwhyz]

So it sounds like this will have all the (seemingly obvious) control options similar to the Conduit, but any word on if it will include the (also obvious) option to LOCK THE CURSOR AT THE CENTRE OF THE SCREEN?
Please, it would make things smoother playing if developers just added a couple lines of code to do this. Keep the movement area the same, just let us lock the aiming reticule, just like PC/analog FPSs, please.

You can lock the gun in the center of the screen while you are in ADS. If you are suggesting locking the cursor in the center at ALL times, we had this in cod3, with "dynamic aim" off. It was terrible.

 

[EatChildren]

One follows from the other, the lack of tech leads to a lack of ambition. what is the point in developing an engine that is already out of date? most compaines are looking to break new ground (many like Crytek looking to the next generation) whist most programmers would simply not like to be so constrained by a console that essetally has the rendering power of a lemon when compared to modern PC GPUs.

I can imagine there is a long low groan in the office when a programming team member or texture artist finds they have been releagted to the "Wii Version". The Wii is not exactly the most fertile groud nowerdays either, short of a few intersting expements there has been very little attempt to live up to the slickness and production vaules of the graphical big boys. Not to mention many third party titles dying on the sales front.

Um, no not really. There are certainly developers out there who roll there eyes at the idea of developing for the Wii, or any low tech platform, but it's a cop out to say most are like that. Programmers don't always prioritise developing a visually phenominal engine. I know plenty of programmers who dont really give a shit about how their games look and are far, far more interested in breaking new ground in gameplay and innovative ideas.

Same goes for artists really. Yes plenty like to work with the best, but it's not a given for everybody.

The market plays a much larger part than anything else. Nintendo platforms have always been hard to develop for due to people primarily buying Nintendo systems for Nintendo games. By default publishers/developers are worried their games are going to get overlooked. The Wii market is still unknown in certain areas (for a number of reasons) which just increases concern.

Not every developer is like Epic or Crytek, who focus near exclusively on raw power and advanced engines. I suspect you'd be very, very surprised at how many developers just want to make good games that sell well, and don't mind limiting themselves to weaker systems if it means they get to create what they want.

 

[fyzxwhyz]

How much leeway were you given in regards to re-working original assets? Were the textures simply down-sampled from the original release or were new textures created?

We weren't allowed to make any substantive changes to the look of the game beyond what was required to make it work on the wii. The artists could have created new assets only if they looked effectively the same as the originals.

Ignorant me thinks that all you need for a Wii port is essentially like dialing down the graphics options in the PC version. Shadows? Off. AA? Less/off. Number of corpses? Low. Textures? Low.

This is why I'm not a dev.

We were able to simply downsample assets in some cases, but new asset pipeline techniques were required in a lot of situations. Purely downsampling only gets you so far. You have to realize that the data for each level (this includes textures, animations, map geometry, audio, scripting, characters, props, particle fx, UI, etc.) had to be shrunk from around 80mb on the xbox 360 to around 25mb on the wii. If all we did was simply downsample everything to the point where it fit in memory, the game would look more like star fox on the snes than call of duty 4. In some cases, we had to come up with programmatic ways to get similar graphical fidelity with less texture memory. In other cases, we were able to stream higher-res assets off of the disc, but then you run into the problem of how the game knows what to stream in, and when to stream it such that you don't get texture pops, audio stutters, and things like that. So each level had to be retrofitted with triggers to tell the game what to stream in, and partitioned into chunks of coherent stream data. Then there had to be a balancing act to keep from exceeding the wii optical drive bandwidth. We had this same problem with all asset types, not just textures. Memory management tasks like this took up a huge amount of time, and had to be done individually for each SP and MP level.

Other than memory restrictions, CPU time was the other main bottleneck. Even running the absolute lowest quality assets, a huge amount of CPU time is tied up in level scripting, AI logic, line-of-sight traces, and everything else central to a first person shooter. When everything first fit in memory, the game ran at about 2 frames per second, and hundreds of engine optimizations had to go in to bring that up to 30. Cod4 runs with 32 AI at times (safehouse, heat, and the bog are the worst cases), and each one is calculating animation matrices, doing geometry traces, and running thousands of lines of script - every single frame. We weren't able to reduce the number of AI without significantly changing the gameplay, and so other elements of the engine had to be re-engineered to maintain an acceptable framerate. Building off of WAW for the wii gave us a head start, but a lot more engineering and optimization had to go into this project to raise the quality above what it was last year.

I know it's easy to look at some screenshots of the game and dismiss it as a phoned-in port, but try to realize the sacrifices that had to be made to maintain the original cod4 content and gameplay - it's a lot more complicated than just turning the "good graphics" knob all the way down. There is a reason you don't see more ports of 360/ps3 games to the wii that don't try to substantially change the game in some manner.

 

[Gilby]

You can lock the gun in the center of the screen while you are in ADS. If you are suggesting locking the cursor in the center at ALL times, we had this in cod3, with "dynamic aim" off. It was terrible.

I just want the option to always have the reticule in the centre (like a PC FPS), but to still have a bounding box controlling the turn speed. I'm not sure whether that's what you're talking about or not.

 

[donny2112]

to maintain the original cod4 content gameplay

Excellent.

 

[fyzxwhyz]

I just want the option to always have the reticule in the centre (like a PC FPS), but to still have a bounding box controlling the turn speed. I'm not sure whether that's what you're talking about or not.

The "marksman" control preset is like that. You'll have to try it out.

 

[gamingeek]

I know it's easy to look at some screenshots of the game and dismiss it as a phoned-in port, but try to realize the sacrifices that had to be made to maintain the original cod4 content and gameplay - it's a lot more complicated than just turning the "good graphics" knob all the way down. There is a reason you don't see more ports of 360/ps3 games to the wii that don't try to substantially change the game in some manner.

Thanks for that, I'm in this thread because I am interested in this game and information about it. All the graphics bickering is becoming a chore to sift through.

I enjoyed WaW on Wii last year and truthfully would have bought COD4 on my 360 if it had ever come down in price over here. But I do prefer playing FPS with IR and I hope Treyarch keep doing a great job with shooters on the system. That said although we do have some information through forums, there has been a criminal lack of media and interviews in the press about the game.

There is a tendency to be worried when games go into silent mode before release.

I had problems with the ADS mode in WaW which I felt was very laggy, especially compared to the down sights mode in Medal of Honor Heroes 2. The movement IR controls were fine, fast and accurate although you could have dialled down the recoil for accuracy sake.

I guess the texture pop up was a problem, in some levels you could hear the system streaming textures off the disc and visibly see it happen in front of your eyes. It could have been crisper and more detailed too and the frame rate could use solidifying.

Would you say that all these issues have been addressed in REFLEX and if so, please, when the hell are we going to get to see some new media, in particular videos of this game in action?

 

[Disguises]

You can lock the gun in the center of the screen while you are in ADS. If you are suggesting locking the cursor in the center at ALL times, we had this in cod3, with "dynamic aim" off. It was terrible.

Haha! I remember that. I think I used that control option. It seemed the fastest way to turn around and aim at something. Probably set it up like that to contrast how slow red steels turning was though since I was playing through that at the same time. Doubt I could go back and play like that now though since newer FPS's (WaW and especially conduit) seem to have nailed it.

 

[Dabookerman]

Which is a shame, since the Wii can produce some beautiful textures, and few next gen games have come close to producing textures as clean as say Metroid Prime or Galaxy.

Hahaha. The Wii produces textures, and not the artist. Brilliant!

The point is, the Wii has much greater limits in texture space than that of the other two + PC. You have much more creative freedom when presented with a texture space of 1024x1024 rather than 256x256.

This is precisely why realism or similar art styles are so futile on the Wii.

It's like asking Michaelangelo to paint the roof of your local bus stop rather than his crescendo at the Sistine Chapel.

 

[dark10x]

I know it's easy to look at some screenshots of the game and dismiss it as a phoned-in port, but try to realize the sacrifices that had to be made to maintain the original cod4 content and gameplay - it's a lot more complicated than just turning the "good graphics" knob all the way down. There is a reason you don't see more ports of 360/ps3 games to the wii that don't try to substantially change the game in some manner.

I appreciate the write up there. Interesting details, to be certain.

I recall the original game featuring shadows cast from all world objects interacting with all other objects. It gave it a very unified look. Was there any attempt at bringing this to the Wii version or was that dropped?

What about some of the 'shader' work?

few next gen games have come close to producing textures as clean as say Metroid Prime or Galaxy

You've got to be joking. The textures in those games are much lower resolution than the average 360/PS3 title. They look good as a result of the artists, not the technology.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

It's like asking Michaelangelo to paint the roof of your local bus stop rather than his crescendo at the Sistine Chapel.

Yeah, because Michaelangelo would say, "painting? God, fuck that shit. I'm a sculptor, painting is for dumbasses."

 

[donny2112]

Well, it looks like Modern Warfare Wii will have a competitor launching November 10, too.



It's by Destineer which should kill any interest in the title, but if it's got controls that can get as tight as The Conduit, too, I may reconsider. :lol

 

[hellclerk]

Well, it looks like Modern Warfare Wii will have a competitor launching November 10, too.



It's by Destineer which should kill any interest in the title, but if it's got controls that can get as tight as The Conduit, too, I may reconsider. :lol

it's a port of an old xbox game by a similar name. there's nothing worth considering about it.

 

[Gospel]

Even if it get's the controls right, I wouldn't put any faith in it. It'll probably play like shite.

Doesn't look too bad though.

 

[Dabookerman]

Yeah, because Michaelangelo would say, "painting? God, fuck that shit. I'm a sculptor, painting is for dumbasses."

"The Sistine Chapel ceiling, painted by Michelangelo between 1508 and 1512, at the commission of Pope Julius II, is one of the most renowned artworks of the High Renaissance."

it's a port of an old xbox 360/PS3/PC game by a similar name. there's nothing worth considering about it.

Can work either way

 

[Stinkles]

Even if it get's the controls right, I wouldn't put any faith in it. It'll probably play like shite.

Doesn't look too bad though.

I wish I could get aliasing like that to appear on an LCD. That would at least infer a decent video output.

 

[hellclerk]

allegedly clever quote

oh yeah, because Infinity Ward is half the developer that Destineer will ever be. please, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Dabookerman]

oh yeah, because Infinity Ward is half the developer that Destineer will ever be. please, you're embarrassing yourself.

Who made any mentions of the developer?

You're buying a port of a good game, being handled by a team who are probably of the same quality as those who are making the marines game.

For all you know they could be equally good (or shite).

 

[hellclerk]

Who made any mentions of the developer?

You're buying a port of a good game, being handled by a team who are probably of the same quality as those who are making the marines game.

For all you know they could be equally good (or shite).

the port of a good game by a questionable developer is still better than the port of a shitty game by a proven terrible developer.

btw, i've gotten more than my money's worth with CoDWaW on Wii, despite how gimped it is compared to the HD version, so i'm pretty confident that i'll get the same, if not more from this game.

 

[donny2112]

it's a port of an old xbox game by a similar name.

I cannot seem to find said game. Do you have a link?

 

[MiniDitka]

I cannot seem to find said game. Do you have a link?

I believe this is the game - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwQDIv3wfjw

Review - http://xbox.ign.com/articles/602/602562p1.html

 

[hellclerk]

I cannot seem to find said game. Do you have a link?

http://www.gamasutra.com/news?story=25742

In the meantime, Destineer plans to release Marines: Modern Urban Combat, a squad-based Wii first-person shooter. The game is actually a port of the 2005 PC and Xbox game Close Combat: First to Fight, also developed by Destineer. That game, in turn, had its roots in two precursors developed by the previous incarnation of Atomic Games: Atomic's technology created for military simulation games, and the developer's long-running Close Combat series of PC tactical and strategy military games, which it handled through the 1990s before delegating duties to third-party studios.

 

[donny2112]

I believe this is the game - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwQDIv3wfjw

Interesting. It's got a 7 gamerankings average, and IGN's Doug Perry gave it an 8. If the controls are The Conduit tight, it might be worth taking a look at for $30. :lol

http://www.gamasutra.com/news?story=25742

Thanks.

 

[BoloTheGreat]

http://www.gamasutra.com/news?story=25742

Why do i have the feeling it will actually look worse on the Wii?

*Sigh*

 

[donny2112]

Why do i have the feeling it will actually look worse on the Wii?

:lol

That's the quote on the YouTube video, too.

 

[Gospel]

Why do i have the feeling it will actually look worse on the Wii?

*Sigh*

Well, I hate to be that guy, but besides resolution, I doesn't look like it'll look as good on the Wii.

On another note, this graphics talk means nothing to me as I just saw that the Xbox version of this game has split screen local multiplayer. Does the Wii version have it?


EDIT: Man, only 2-player local? A brotha can't get no 4 player local love on the Wii.
EDIT2: :lol I forgot to mention that this screen is from the Xbox version

 

[BoloTheGreat]

:lol

That's the quote on the YouTube video, too.

Oh snap!!:lol I honestly didn't see that, i guess people know the score by now.

Well, I hate to be that guy, but besides resolution, I doesn't look like it'll look as good on the Wii.

On another note, this graphics talk means nothing to me as I just saw that the Xbox version of this game has split screen local multiplayer. Does the Wii version have it?

Ewwwwwwww... Welcome to jaggieville....

Why are so many Wii ports and games frankly so shit in the visuals department?

 

[Mileena]

Well, I hate to be that guy, but besides resolution, I doesn't look like it'll look as good on the Wii.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2z8oop0.jpg[IMG]
[/QUOTE]
Wow :lol :lol

 

[Razien]

it's a lot more complicated than just turning the "good graphics" knob all the way down. There is a reason you don't see more ports of 360/ps3 games to the wii that don't try to substantially change the game in some manner.

So... why not an original quality Wii FPS? I don't understand who thought that spending this much time resizing and optimizing is more worth it than making a kickass new FPS tailored to the Wii. The CoD brand is strong on Wii, and a new game would certainly gather more interest on the game than a 2 year old port with less online modes and less players per mode, no DLC included, worse graphics and premium price. It would certainly take more work, but I could see sales paying off.

So far, I care more for Marines. Squad-based combat, good impressions of the first, the game fits the platform (made based on Xbox, not retrofitted from much stronger machines), 30 dollars price tag. I can see the passion in you devs but, like Dead Space Extraction, I don't really care. I can buy CoD4 for my PC for 30, 40 bucks in worst case scenario - 10, 20 less than this (not yours fault) lesser port. Again, why not an original game? Are you ever ging to use this engine for an original game on Wii? Too much optimization and work on it not to.

 

[hellclerk]

So... why not an original quality Wii FPS? I don't understand who thought that spending this much time resizing and optimizing is more worth it than making a kickass new FPS tailored to the Wii. The CoD brand is strong on Wii, and a new game would certainly gather more interest on the game than a 2 year old port with less online modes and less players per mode, no DLC included, worse graphics and premium price. It would certainly take more work, but I could see sales paying off.

So far, I care more for Marines. Squad-based combat, good impressions of the first, the game fits the platform (made based on Xbox, not retrofitted from much stronger machines), 30 dollars price tag. I can see the passion in you devs but, like Dead Space Extraction, I don't really care. I can buy CoD4 for my PC for 30, 40 bucks in worst case scenario - 10, 20 less than this (not yours fault) lesser port. Again, why not an original game? Are you ever ging to use this engine for an original game on Wii? Too much optimization and work on it not to.

you'd get less off of the game that "fits the platform" than you would from the 2 year old port. yes, it would be ideal to have a ground up engine than a port of an engine optimized for other consoles, but this is Activision we're talking here, not to mention that the development cycle for this game is literally less than 12 months. to make something ground up would take at least 2 years and a team larger than they have. would you be able to wait that long? or more accurately, would Activsion?

 

[fyzxwhyz]

I had problems with the ADS mode in WaW which I felt was very laggy, especially compared to the down sights mode in Medal of Honor Heroes 2.

The only reason ADS felt laggy in WAW is because the gun model was restricted from moving all the way to the edges of the screen. We did this in response to focus test feedback, where people wanted the gun to stay close to the center of the screen, but I now regard this as a bad idea. MW now has a slider called "ADS Reach" which controls how far you want the gun to move across the screen. Guys like you will probably want it most of the way up. Guys like Gilby, who keeps telling me he wants his point of aim locked in the center, will probably want it all the way down.

The movement IR controls were fine, fast and accurate although you could have dialled down the recoil for accuracy sake.

The recoil settings on the guns are there largely as a balancing measure. Some guns are supposed to be harder to aim than others - this is just part of the game design.

I guess the texture pop up was a problem, in some levels you could hear the system streaming textures off the disc and visibly see it happen in front of your eyes.

There are texture and model pops on the xbox360 too. It is impossible to get rid of them all, although we tried.

It could have been crisper and more detailed too and the frame rate could use solidifying.

When you make things "crisper" - by turning off vertical filtering, for example - you get people complaining about "jaggies." Texture resolution is as high as we could make it while still fitting in memory. If we increased it, we'd have to take that memory from something else, and that something else would then look worse, and people would just be complaining about that instead.

when the hell are we going to get to see some new media, in particular videos of this game in action?

I. Don't. Know.

 

[luoapp]

gamingeek:
when the hell are we going to get to see some new media, in particular videos of this game in action?

I. Don't. Know.

I, personally, am pretty satisfied with the graphics in WaW, and there is no reason for me to think cod4 will be anything less. If they add more features, esp. online multiplay modes, that's a win for me. I am just curious about their marketing strategy. Or, is there one?

 

[volmer]

the data for each level (this includes textures, animations, map geometry, audio, scripting, characters, props, particle fx, UI, etc.) had to be shrunk from around 80mb on the xbox 360 to around 25mb on the wii.

Since more than 70MB is available for textures across both memory banks, that 25MB figure strikes me as a bit odd. Assuming that you reserve 25MB for static assets used throughout the level, and then use the remaining memory for streaming assets, 45MB is still a lot of room for DXT-compressed textures... You are using those, right? Anyway, interesting read.

 

[Shogmaster]

Since more than 70MB is available for textures across both memory banks, that 25MB figure strikes me as a bit odd. Assuming that you reserve 25MB for static assets used throughout the level, and then use the remaining memory for streaming assets, 45MB is still a lot of room for DXT-compressed textures... You are using those, right? Anyway, interesting read.

I guess the textures are strictly kept in the 1T SRAM for the game. Obviously for performance reasons.

 

[Alcibiades]

So... why not an original quality Wii FPS?

Because maybe Wii-only owners would like to play Modern Warfare?

A spinoff is fine but not at the cost of getting the mainline game.

 

[hellclerk]

I. Don't. Know.

i really do feel bad for you, whyz, as the only real mouthpiece for any level of PR on this game. i'm also really grateful for the info you and shonuff have provided, as following this game would be significantly more frustrating without it.

as for any marketing campaign, all Activision would really need to do is to piggyback a 5 second bit at the end of their MW2 commercials:

"And now, one of the greatest first person shooters of all time is coming to the Wii: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, Reflex Edition!" with a montage of footage from the Wii version. for 15 second format commercials, all they would have to do is say "the original, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, now available for Wii!" when they show the boxarts at the end of the commercial.

 

[fyzxwhyz]

Since more than 70MB is available for textures across both memory banks, that 25MB figure strikes me as a bit odd. Assuming that you reserve 25MB for static assets used throughout the level, and then use the remaining memory for streaming assets, 45MB is still a lot of room for DXT-compressed textures... You are using those, right? Anyway, interesting read.

You realize we have an executable to run too, right? Every single data structure, library work buffer, and stream buffer allocation has to come out of those same two memory pools. More memory has to be set aside on top of that for common assets (font textures, etc.). That 25mb is all we have left over for the assets associated with the level data.

 

[volmer]

You realize we have an executable to run too, right? Every single data structure, library work buffer, and stream buffer allocation has to come out of those same two memory pools. More memory has to be set aside on top of that for common assets (font textures, etc.). That 25mb is all we have left over for the assets associated with the level data.

Of course. I didn't mean to imply that you would have all 70MB available for level assets, but it does surprise me that the engine itself has such a large footprint, leaving you with just 25MB. Sounds like you guys have done a good job under the given circumstances.

 

[TAJ]

I can imagine there is a long low groan in the office when a programming team member or texture artist finds they have been releagted to the "Wii Version". The Wii is not exactly the most fertile groud nowerdays either, short of a few intersting expements there has been very little attempt to live up to the slickness and production vaules of the graphical big boys. Not to mention many third party titles dying on the sales front.

Yeah... developers, especially artists, want to be an hardware that can do justice to their work. It's like how the Peace Walker team is insanely jealous of the Rising team because they get to work on HD consoles while the Peace Walker team is stuck on PSP.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

"The Sistine Chapel ceiling, painted by Michelangelo between 1508 and 1512, at the commission of Pope Julius II, is one of the most renowned artworks of the High Renaissance."

yeah and michaelangelo hated painting, he was in the middle of sculpting when he got forced to do a fresco

 

[Massa]

Because maybe Wii-only owners would like to play Modern Warfare?

I think it's more "Activision wanted a CoD Wii product on shelves for the holidays and this was a cheap and quick way to do that".

 

[Opiate]

One follows from the other, the lack of tech leads to a lack of ambition. what is the point in developing an engine that is already out of date? most compaines are looking to break new ground (many like Crytek looking to the next generation) whist most programmers would simply not like to be so constrained by a console that essetally has the rendering power of a lemon when compared to modern PC GPUs.

I can imagine there is a long low groan in the office when a programming team member or texture artist finds they have been releagted to the "Wii Version". The Wii is not exactly the most fertile groud nowerdays either, short of a few intersting expements there has been very little attempt to live up to the slickness and production vaules of the graphical big boys. Not to mention many third party titles dying on the sales front.

I agree. I've said this before, but I think a lot of the Wii's troubles with Western Developers are rooted in the West's implicit desire to push the technological boundaries. Whether it's reasonable or not, most Western developers seem to think that better technology makes better games.

Japanese developers don't seem to ascribe to that philosophy: most seem to think that great games can be made regardless of technological power. As a consequence, we've seen stronger support for the Wii and particularly the DS from these publishers.

No matter how succesful the DS or Wii are, the implicit understanding in Western Dev houses that technology/graphics are important will always leave the Wii and DS at a disadvantage.

 

[Mr.Potato Head]

Which is a shame, since the Wii can produce some beautiful textures, and few next gen games have come close to producing textures as clean as say Metroid Prime or Galaxy.

no way.. are you saying that Metroid and Galaxy on the wii have better cleaner textures then any game on ps3 or 360? Are you kidding me? Come on man..

Look dude..its one thing producing nice clean textures for SD content but its a whole new ball game when we talk more complex textures for HD content. Its not even comparable..sure Galaxy may have some nice and "varied" clean looking textures but i can think of a gazillion games on 360 or ps3 that totally rip apart anything the Wii has been able to produce "texture" wise...its not even close man, sorry but your wrong, totally

 

[AceBandage]

no way.. are you saying that Matroid and Galaxy on the wii have better cleaner textures then any game on ps3 or 360? Are you kidding me? Come on man..

Look dude..its one thing producing nice clean textures for SD content but its a whole new ball game when we talk more complex textures for HD content. Its not even comparable..sure Galaxy may have some nice and "varied" clean looking textures but i can think of a gazillion games on 360 or ps3 that totally rip apart anything the Wii has been able to produce "texture" wise...its not even close man, sorry but your wrong, totally

You really should take a close look at many of the textures in HD games.

Here's one of the biggest releases of the generation:

Muddy, stretched textures that would barely pass on the PS2.

Now, I'm not saying that SMG and MP are the end all be all of beautiful textures, but let's face it.
The resources in most next gen games aren't going into this kind of detail. It's going into flashy lighting and particle effects that you barely notice.

 

[FilthyLies]

"The Sistine Chapel ceiling, painted by Michelangelo between 1508 and 1512, at the commission of Pope Julius II, is one of the most renowned artworks of the High Renaissance."

Pretty sure that was the point. Michelangelo was a sculptor who really didn't view himself as a painter, but he applied himself and produced some of the most amazing Frescoes of the period.