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Calling GAF Diamond (Engagement Ring) experts

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nib95

Banned
So it's come to that point in my life where I have to buy an Engagement Ring. Looking around, and I feel like I'm absolutely overwhelmed by everything this purchase entails. I mean seriously what the...

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Firstly, prices are extortionate (I suppose that should be expected).
Secondly, there must be a billion different things to consider.

Carat.

Basically different sizes of the diamond itself. But what size is good? What's the best value for money and where do I even start?

Cut.

There's round, princess, emerald etc etc. But then there's all this malarky about shape. Table (width), depth, girdle (thickness of the edge) etc. Again, what is ideal, and does any of it actually matter? I assumed width was better to have over depth, but apparently not having the correct amount of depth can mess with the mount of light reflected through. Any truth to this or is this sales malarky?

Clarity.

SI2 SI1 VS2 VS1 VVS2 VVS1 IF FL

Again what? What do these actual mean in real world terms, and what's a good clarity that's good value for money and doesn't need a microscope to actually see flaws. What is a diamond flaw anyway? They all look the same to me.

Colour.

Again, besides the obvious differences, red, blue, pink, colourless etc. Apparently even colourless diamonds have grades of colour? What?

Z-N M-K J I H G F E D

So now even colourless diamonds actually have colour? And what's this about fluorescence?

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There's more still, but above is a summary of findings thus far. So GAF, where do I start? What's a good value starting colour, clarity, carat size and cut? What's a good depth to table ratio, how thick is the rim/girdle supposed to be etc etc.

Please educate me!
 
marketing and such
Congratulations, and you're being ripped off. I don't have a ton of knowledge about this, but I think if you want more specific help you should give people some idea of the amount of money you're willing to spend. Also, depending on your relationship with your girlfriend, you may just want to ask her what her preferences are with respect to the various configurations of overpriced rock.
 

TheContact

Member
Get either a round brilliant or a princess cut. Solitaires are worth more than many smaller diamonds so a 1 carat diamond is worth more than 1 carats of smaller diamonds combined. The best bet you want to go for unless you are super rich is to get si1 and either g or h color.

SI means slightly included so with the naked eye it's possible to see small inclusions (bubbles, internal scratches, or carbon spots). Vvs means very very slightly included, which means you need a microscope to see any flaws. It's really unnecessary.

I'd suggest at least a 1 carat solitaire. As for the setting, either get 14k gold (most common) or i suggest platinum. Platinum is more expensive than gold but it's heavier and is worth more. What's your price range? I have a rapaport subscription I can tell you what is a fair price to pay for a specific diamond you're interested in. Btw, do not buy from places like Kay Jewelers or other franchise stores. They rip you off.
 
Carat is weight, not size.

"white" diamonds are actually slightly tinged with color, with the poorer grades being noticeably yellow. Truly colorless diamonds are exorbitantantly expensive and not used in rings.

Quality varies a lot also, most diamonds have slight flaws, mostly visible under a microscope. Flaws visible to the naked eye are usually poorer quality. Bluenile.com does a great job of breaking all this down, but I can't stress how important it is to see them in person with a jeweler.

Edit: yeah, and take your woman to see what her taste is. My fiancee's preferences and my preferences in rings turned out to be totally different.
 

Zhengi

Member
Go with moissanite. It's cheaper than diamonds, made in a lab so they're environmentally friendly, and are more brilliant. Of course, if you do, tell her and let her know. You don't want to be lying to her about it.
 

nib95

Banned
Get either a round brilliant or a princess cut. Solitaires are worth more than many smaller diamonds so a 1 carat diamond is worth more than 1 carats of smaller diamonds combined. The best bet you want to go for unless you are super rich is to get si1 and either g or h color.

SI means slightly included so with the naked eye it's possible to see small inclusions (bubbles, internal scratches, or carbon spots). Vvs means very slightly included, which means you need a microscope to see any flaws. It's really unnecessary.

I'd suggest at least a 1 carat solitaire. What's your price range?

Ok, thanks for the informative posts. SI1 sounds like the best in-between at the mo.

Congratulations, and you're being ripped off. I don't have a ton of knowledge about this, but I think if you want more specific help you should give people some idea of the amount of money you're willing to spend. Also, depending on your relationship with your girlfriend, you may just want to ask her what her preferences are with respect to the various configurations of overpriced rock.

With respect to budget, I haven't really thought about it to tell the truth. She's not an especially fussy girl. In-fact, with most stuff she's anti superflous, in-that she won't buy designer wear etc. But I know she does have a soft spot for diamonds, despite never actually having been fussy about it.

I guess I'm looking in the region of £2k for the ring. Which I think is fair? Honestly speaking, I have no idea. I know I have however seen some shockingly priced rings in certain windows of stores, like £5-£10k. Then again, I've seen others that are only £1-£1.5k.

I also realise it's a waste of money. But you know what, so are a lot of things in life, and most of those things are male orientated (headphones, TV's, Amps, DAC's, games consoles, Blu-ray's, technology etc). I'd imagine the actual value of diamonds is immensely overstated, most probably market induced by the bigger players such as De Beers etc. Basically, you control the market in any industry, you control supply, demand and pricing. Just the way the cookie crumbles.


Synthetic Diamonds.

Anyone know anything about cultured or synthetic diamonds? I've read that companies can now manufacture perfect diamonds (actual diamonds and not copies or gems with similar properties), only at prices far cheaper than the real mined alternative. Just don't know where to buy such diamonds.
 

TheContact

Member
Moisannites are a good option too, just be up front about it. Some girls just love natural diamonds. Moisannites are just man made diamonds, but they're a lot cheaper. It's also hard to tell the difference between the two unless you know what to look for because the cuts are different.

If you aren't surprising her with a ring, take her to a store and have her choose what she likes, just keep in mind the information about the different types of diamonds. I got my fiancé a ring I didn't particularly care for but she fell in love with, but it's going on her finger and not mine so as long as she's happy so am i
 

DrMungo

Member
First off, congrats!
Its hard to go by just the ratings as its all subjective.

The weight is not proportionate, as the price spikes when the carat hit a certain mark. (ie, a 1.3 carat vs a 1.5 carat can be different in price more so than you would think.) In terms of size, its best to see it in person, because a slightly smaller rock might not even be noticable.

Cut is very important, I'd say most important (my opinion only) as having a good cut gives it the radiance. You can have a 2 carat rock but poor cut and it would seem dull, but a 1.2 carat perfectly cut would shine.

Clarity and Color are important onlyup to a certain point (I think VS1, maybe G?) because by the naked eye that difference beyond that. (Only a jeweler with a loupe coule probably tell)

The round shape is the most classic, but the most radiant. Princess (or square cut) gives you more carats but the radiance is not as bright from what I udnerstand.

ANd lastly the ring that it sets on is important too, but that's purely up to you.

Good Luck!
 
Ok, thanks for the informative posts. SI1 sounds like the best in-between at the mo.



With respect to budget, I haven't really thought about it to tell the truth. She's not an especially fussy girl. In-fact, with most stuff she's anti superflous, in-that she won't buy designer wear etc. But I know she does have a soft spot for diamonds, despite never being fussy about it.

I guess I'm looking in the region of £2k for the ring. Which I think is fair? Honestly speaking, I have no idea. I know I have however seen some shockingly priced rings in certain windows of stores, like £5-£10k. Then again, I've seen others that are only £1-£1.5k.

I also realise it's a waste of money. But you know what, so are a lot of things in life, and most of those things are male orientated (headphones, TV's, Amps, DAC's, games consoles, Blu-ray's, technology etc). I'd imagine the actual value of diamonds is immensely overstated, most probably market induced by the bigger players such as De Beers etc. Basically, you control the market in any industry, you control supply, demand and pricing. Just the way the cookie crumbles.
True. Ignore poor gaf telling you its a waste. You can't really put a dollar figure on her happiness.

I'm posting from a phone so keeping it short, but I stressed myself out online getting caught up in grades and ratings. Nothing really beats seeing them up close to get a feel for what a "g" color or vvs2 grading actually means irl. A lot of its just marketing, and you'll find some amazing rings you may not have considered otherwise.
 

Feep

Banned
Diamonds are cool, but echoing another poster above, tanzanite is a really, really cool stone.

But obviously, talk to her about it.
 

DrMungo

Member
True. Ignore poor gaf telling you its a waste. You can't really put a dollar figure on her happiness.

I'm posting from a phone so keeping it short, but I stressed myself out online getting caught up in grades and ratings. Nothing really beats seeing them up close to get a feel for what a "g" color or vvs2 grading actually means irl. A lot of its just marketing, and you'll find some amazing rings you may not have considered otherwise.

Yeah, marketing does play a big role in this and I internally knew this too. But I knew when I picked out a good one, my woman would cherish it for life. (She would have loved me anyway, but I wanted to put in effort to make her happy.) Ignore Poor-GAF trying to get you to feel bad.
 
My girlfriend told me to buy something cheap and better looking like a Peridot if I really wanted to buy a ring. Fuck yeah.

^5

I think those custom titanium bands are cooler anyway.



Just calling it like it is. Asking certain gaf members who won't pay for any game over 19.99 what they think about buying diamonds is a waste of time.

I don't find them aesthetically pleasing and they're pretty much the epitome of human suffering to me.
 

nib95

Banned
Carat is weight, not size.

"white" diamonds are actually slightly tinged with color, with the poorer grades being noticeably yellow. Truly colorless diamonds are exorbitantantly expensive and not used in rings.

Quality varies a lot also, most diamonds have slight flaws, mostly visible under a microscope. Flaws visible to the naked eye are usually poorer quality. Bluenile.com does a great job of breaking all this down, but I can't stress how important it is to see them in person with a jeweler.

Edit: yeah, and take your woman to see what her taste is. My fiancee's preferences and my preferences in rings turned out to be totally different.

Thanks for the input.


Go with moissanite. It's cheaper than diamonds, made in a lab so they're environmentally friendly, and are more brilliant. Of course, if you do, tell her and let her know. You don't want to be lying to her about it.

Hmm...feels a bit, I don't know...improper. But I might look in to it. Only time I've ever heard the word is in Snatch, and I distinctly remember the guy saying:

"A moissanite is an artificial damond, Lincoln. It's Mickey Mouse, mate. Spurious. Not Genuine. And it's worth fuck-all."

Looking online though, they're not exactly cheap still lol.
 
If you're getting overwhelmed...give places like Tiffany, Cartier, and DeBeers an honest look. Yes there's a premium on their products but you also get piece of mind on whether or not you're getting the 'right' ring for your fiancee. Also the customer service experience at these places is really first class...and believe it or not, the best salespeople at these stores are more than willing to find something for you in your budget and really help you out.
 
Just bring her to the store with you. She'll go oh I like this one, and you'll say that is really expensive. Then she'll look sad and you'll buy it anyway and eat crackers for 2 months.
 
If you're getting overwhelmed...give places like Tiffany, Cartier, and DeBeers an honest look. Yes there's a premium on their products but you also get piece of mind on whether or not you're getting the 'right' ring for your fiancee. Also the customer service experience at these places is really first class...and believe it or not, the best salespeople at these stores are more than willing to find something for you in your budget and really help you out.
Did you see his budget? Maybe he could get a friendship ring at one of those places for that. If I remember correctly, anything aproaching one carret started at 10k at Tiffany's.
 

nib95

Banned
If you're getting overwhelmed...give places like Tiffany, Cartier, and DeBeers an honest look. Yes there's a premium on their products but you also get piece of mind on whether or not you're getting the 'right' ring for your fiancee. Also the customer service experience at these places is really first class...and believe it or not, the best salespeople at these stores are more than willing to find something for you in your budget and really help you out.

I could never afford a ring from one of those places. Don't they start at like £5k? It scares me just going near one of their stores lol. If I was getting married a few years from now, maybe. But I'm still only 26 and money isn't exactly pouring out. Though granted I'm doing better than the masses, especially in this difficult economic time.

Also have a personal thing against De Beers for having such a controlling impact on the industry itself. Though I agree, their rings are no doubt stunning.
 

ccbfan

Member
With your budget of 2k you're not gonna get much in terms of a solitaire.

You can either get a dull no certified 1carat

Or a decent half carat.

With a half carat you might as well get a ring with a bunch of little diamonds.

Also engagement rings can be an investment.

I bough a Gia certified one that iis worth 25percent more than I paid for it now.
 
Did you see his budget? Maybe he could get a friendship ring at one of those places for that. If I remember correctly, anything aproaching one carret started at 10k at Tiffany's.
Tiffany's engagement rings start at around $1200-1500 from what I heard. When I bought my wife's ring a few years ago my awesome saleslady at Tiffany's was telling me about how she helped out a customer that same week that had a budget of about $1800 and she was able to find something quite nice and cute for him to propose with...and his finacee absolutely loved it. Sure it might not have been the biggest rock or whatever...but it was still high quality and had that Tiffany allure...it worked out very well for them.

Seriously...give it a try. Like I said, the best salespeople there are the ones that will welcome you and help you with (edit: almost =) any budget, not laugh you out of the store. If they do...then storm out of the store and push a magazine rack or something =P
 

nib95

Banned
With your budget of 2k you're not gonna get much in terms of a solitaire.

You can either get a dull no certified 1carat

Or a decent half carat.

With a half carat you might as well get a ring with a bunch of little diamonds.

Also engagement rings can be an investment.

I bough a Gia certified one that iis worth 25percent more than I paid for it now.

Well, my friend bought his other half a 0.5 carat diamond lately, and it was a bit small, but not outrageous. From what I can gather my other half likes three stoned rings, and doesn't mind the idea of sapphire thrown in. I have no idea how expensive sapphire is, but have seen a few sapphire/diamond combo's (sapphire in the middle, mini diamonds outside it, or vice versa).

For the main diamond itself, I was thinking maybe 0.75 carats?
 
Extravagant engagement rings are dumb as fuck. If I had a girl who insisted on one I'd be like "stop being such a materialistic douche, you just wanna show it off to people for attention." I'd be the worst boyfriend ever.
 
Extravagant engagement rings are dumb as fuck. If I had a girl who insisted on one I'd be like "stop being such a materialistic douche, you just wanna show it off to people for attention." I'd be the worst boyfriend ever.

Negative 1.

That would make you the "Best boyfriend ever."
 

JuanMR2

Member
I used the website below to research the ring I bought (Diamond Education tab). I was really helpful. I started out with a price range which slowly went up. I ended up buying a Platinum 1ct solitaire, G-VS2 ring.

1ct size in person is a decent size. Color looked nice compared to other rings I saw in person. A few I saw looked yellow compared to the one I got. The coating on white gold rings can wear off after several years making it look yellow so I went with the platinum ring. There are a lot of factor, it was a bit overwhelming.

GIA certified diamonds seemed to be the most consistent. Also make sure the diamond is not "Clarity enchanced" and yes stay away from Kays and other B&M stores. www.jamesallen.com has good ratings and the prices are the lowest I found.


http://www.truthaboutdiamonds.com/
 

Argyle

Member
Synthetic Diamonds.

Anyone know anything about cultured or synthetic diamonds? I've read that companies can now manufacture perfect diamonds (actual diamonds and not copies or gems with similar properties), only at prices far cheaper than the real mined alternative. Just don't know where to buy such diamonds.

I bought a diamond for my fiancee a little over a year ago from Apollo Diamonds, but it looks like they have gone out of business and their assets were purchased by another company, SCIO Diamonds (http://www.sciodiamond.com/)...however it does not look like they have entered the gemstone market.

It was cheaper than a natural diamond, but not by a lot. Don't expect it to be super cheap (think at most 20%-30% less). Also at the time, Apollo could only really make diamonds at most about .75 carat. My fiancee has tiny hands so that worked out fine for me.

Additionally there is Gemesis (http://www.gemesis.com/) - when I was looking they only had colored diamonds and my fiancee wanted a clear stone, so they weren't an option. Today it looks like they will have colorless stones soon, but as you can see they are about to relaunch...I guess it wouldn't hurt to shoot them an email if you are interested. The colored Gemesis stones (typically pink or yellow I think) came in much larger sizes because of the process they used, from what I recall.
 

nib95

Banned
Extravagant engagement rings are dumb as fuck. If I had a girl who insisted on one I'd be like "stop being such a materialistic douche, you just wanna show it off to people for attention." I'd be the worst boyfriend ever.

And yet, we love to show them off. Admit it we do. If your girl looks and dresses nice, you get a sense of pride and fulfilment from it. Fuck knows why. it's a douchey pompous aspect of men (and women) but it's there.

I say let her have the ring because I spend crap tonnes on lots of unnecessary things as well. We all do really.
 

nib95

Banned
I bought a diamond for my fiancee a little over a year ago from Apollo Diamonds, but it looks like they have gone out of business and their assets were purchased by another company, SCIO Diamonds (http://www.sciodiamond.com/)...however it does not look like they have entered the gemstone market.

It was cheaper than a natural diamond, but not by a lot. Don't expect it to be super cheap (think at most 20%-30% less). Also at the time, Apollo could only really make diamonds at most about .75 carat. My fiancee has tiny hands so that worked out fine for me.

Additionally there is Gemesis (http://www.gemesis.com/) - when I was looking they only had colored diamonds and my fiancee wanted a clear stone, so they weren't an option. Today it looks like they will have colorless stones soon, but as you can see they are about to relaunch...I guess it wouldn't hurt to shoot them an email if you are interested. The colored Gemesis stones (typically pink or yellow I think) came in much larger sizes because of the process they used, from what I recall.

I might give Gemesis a whirl. How much did the Apollo one set you back, and for how many carats?
 
What are GAF's recommended diamond shops? Tiffany's and De Beers seem solid, although on the more expensive end. I get the feeling Zales/Kay's/Helzberg/Jared's are not good ideas?
 
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