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Can somebody explain to me the deal about Kid characters and JRPGs?

RSLAEV

Member
Apr 5, 2006
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This is why I like Lost Odyssey, the main characters (so far) are actual adults, with adult voices. All in all it seems like a much more mature approach.

Of course I bought Tales of Vesperia and now it's back to
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
Feb 20, 2007
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life ends at 18 in Japan, especially if you're from a backwater fishing village. The plus side is you really learn how to believe in yourself, trust your friends and never give up.
 

flintstryker

Banned
Jan 11, 2008
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WrikaWrek[B said:
]Are you a JRPG fan? Do you like kids as main characters?[/B]



Fuckin A. Not every story has to be an origin story.
I have no problem with the ages of the characters no matter what the game i play, i do have problem if the characters are annoying though.
 

sankt-Antonio

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Jun 22, 2008
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rykomatsu said:
bible black
there are so much better animes/hentais than bible black... but yes you are right :)

edit. now that you mentioned hentai i started to daydream about an urotsukidoji rpg ...
if we could only get the nice things....


edit2: wow there are so many uncencored wicked city / urotsukidoji vids on youtube... hehehe
 

Woz

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Nov 9, 2006
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Italy
No6 said:
By picking Narnia, which most people read when they're younger than 10?
I've picked Harry Potter, and in Italy many adults read HP. Didn't know that the Narnia average reader can barely read =P
 

Darkpen

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Mar 14, 2007
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WrikaWrek said:
Nice argument. Did i hurt your feelings? Feels like it.
rofl, not really. Its just that this entire thread is stupid. All logical reasons and answers have been given, yet you still fight it, because you don't like it. Therefore, you are stupid.

Regulus Tera said:
I don't get it. :(
youtube or google z brush

rykomatsu said:
bible black
that's like... unrated, or nc17

As for the "anime" argument, I'd like to note that there are plenty of animes that have grown adults as the main roles, whether its Berzerk, or, my favorite, Monster.

Or current cult favorite, Kaiji.

Its just a question of who the demographic is, or what the storyteller has in mind for the direction they want to go.
 
Nov 10, 2005
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No6 said:
Your spider-man example is terrible. Most people do not associate Spider-Man with high school; only one movie involved high school (the rest were college) and Peter Parker has been out of high school for, what, the last 30 years? The marriage issue was written in 1987. The only HS Spider-man is the USM one. Hell, Spider-man was considered groundbreaking when it was released because it had a teen main character instead of being a side-kick like Robin. Most US (and euro?) comics are about adults (well, a lot are like manchild fantasies but still).


You must have a pretty terrible and pathetic life, because I've managed to get to 30 without experiencing major life-changing events like marriage, children, death of a close loved one, massive personal economic disaster, or crippling injury, and even without those I can assure you that just in the last five years I've experienced significant personal development. Hell, I'm practically unrecognizable compared to what I was five years ago.


Again, Spider-Man has been an "adult" for well over two decades.
1. The whole concept of Spider-Man was a TEENAGER getting super heroes. The fact that Spider-Man EVENTUALLY became an adult after ten years does not change what it is, and what it is is a comic that started with a teenager. I can use Spider-Man because it's an example of a famous American material that does this too - it's not just "JRPGs like kid stories lol". Spider-Man existed for teens back in the day, and was made a teen as a result. The fact that he becomes an adult doesn't mean it doesn't compare to JRPGs - where is there any opportunity to become an adult in these games? Most examples either don't have sequels or have unrelated sequels.

2. lol @ you seemingly getting all worked up over my statements. Why don't you complain about Spider-Man? I'm guessing because you want this anti-JRPG thread to succeed.

3. And Spider-Man has existed for well over four decades. Unless you mistyped, he's been a teenager for nearly half of the comic's life.

WrikaWrek said:
You just don't get it, the problem is that there are too many. Why the f do i have to learn shit as a kid, always, in game, i'm no kid. Heck then make the main character a 5 year old, not 14, let me learn what was behind while we're at it.

Fable does the whole growth thing. And you can't compare these 14 year old warrior kids to spiderman or star wars, since they are pretty different, and show different type of growth in their characters.

And you only say it's not a target audience thing, because fact is, you probably love it, and when somebody say "It's meant for kids", which it is, you feel insulted.



Dude, life doesn't end at 18.
And this isn't a JRPG thing, it's an "any video game, movie, book, comic, TV show, etc." thing. It happens ALL the time, and it's because people like it. Star Wars is about a teenager, Harry Potter is about a teenager, The Lord of the Rings is about a teenager, Transformers is about a teenager, etc.

And Star Wars, why can't I compare it again? Yeah, super-realistic - teenager who lives with his aunt and uncle and does chores and goes to hang out with his friends. He has some experience shootin' womp rats, but that's it. I guess it makes sense that he can be one of the only survivors in the attack on the Death Star, and to be the one to accomplish the difficult task of destroying it. Mmhmm, perfectly logical, and no JRPG is that logical, I suppose.
 

Fenderputty

Banned
Apr 14, 2008
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sankt-Antonio said:
a kids movie? did you see that movie?
----
just to clear things up :)
LOL ... I see your point, but really I was only pointing out movies that had children as the protagonist. I was going to include Willow, but the main character was really an adult, just a small one. :lol
 

Prime crotch

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Nov 8, 2006
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A Link to the Snitch said:
Actually Spiderman thing was all about being a teenager on highschool, Marvel has been scared shitless since ever of making him grow up.
How about a stable married relationship? No way! Let's magically make him single and jobless!
 

WrikaWrek

Banned
Oct 31, 2007
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Darkpen said:
rofl, not really. Its just that this entire thread is stupid. All logical reasons and answers have been given, yet you still fight it, because you don't like it. Therefore, you are stupid.
I didn't fight anything. I agreed. These games are made for a younger audience.

I'm just saying that there are grown ups out there too. And guess that's why FF seems to have some more mature characters right now.

I'm cool with it. The thread isn't stupid, you are just ofended, because you don't like people to question this, because you probably love this "trend" of kids in JRPGs.

A Link to the Snitch said:
And this isn't a JRPG thing, it's an "any video game, movie, book, comic, TV show, etc." thing. It happens ALL the time, and it's because people like it. Star Wars is about a teenager, Harry Potter is about a teenager, The Lord of the Rings is about a teenager, Transformers is about a teenager, etc.

And Star Wars, why can't I compare it again? Yeah, super-realistic - teenager who lives with his aunt and uncle and does chores and goes to hang out with his friends. He has some experience shootin' womp rats, but that's it. I guess it makes sense that he can be one of the only survivors in the attack on the Death Star, and to be the one to accomplish the difficult task of destroying it. Mmhmm, perfectly logical, and no JRPG is that logical, I suppose.
LOTR is not about a teenager dude. Have you seen the movies? What do you think the trilogy is just about Frodo?

Or are you also missing the fact that Frodo plays a pretty different role than what the kids in JRPGs do?

Luke Skywalker was 18 when it began, and 22 when it ended, and he is the son of Darth Vader, and was trained by Obi Wan and Yoda in order to use the force and the lightsaber.

He wasn't some kid that suddenly picked up a sword and taking down true soldiers like it was nothing.

So no, it's not the same thing.
 

M3d10n

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Aug 28, 2006
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How old were Romeo and Juliet again?

Anyway, most companies go for the teenagers leads for many reasons, one of them being that usually a larger userbase can relate to a younger character (because they either are young themselves or were someday) than an older one, and many don't mind having a part of such userbase outgrow their products because the bottom of the pyramid is always being replenished.
 
Nov 10, 2005
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WrikaWrek said:
I didn't fight anything. I agreed. These games are made for a younger audience.

I'm just saying that there are grown ups out there too. And guess that's why FF seems to have some more mature characters right now.

I'm cool with it. The thread isn't stupid, you are just ofended, because you don't like people to question this, because you probably love this "trend" of kids in JRPGs.
Well, yes, in a way, these games are made for a younger audience like Spider-Man and Star Wars were.

But they aren't, that's the thing - those two appeal to all ages, just like many JRPGs do. Which you seem to refuse to accept.

M3d10n said:
How old were Romeo and Juliet again?
Bububu they weren't fighting in a war and not a JRPG
 

Vangellis

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Sep 11, 2006
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I think the biggest problem is I find the stories and characters to be too corny. Many times translation and voice acting is terrible or mediocre. God I still remember In FFX when they say you are fighting.... "Sin" I think that was my turning point haha. I think as they have become more realistic I have dislike them more and more. When the graphics were snes, ps it was more about the game mechanics for me. Now they try to get all emotional or cinematic and most often that fails horribly for me. Im too busy noticing that the characters look ridiculous, or too effeminate, stupid dialogue, or that its taking its self too seriously.

If you want to be ridiculous, or poorly written.. thats fine B movies make me laugh. But a B movie knows its a B movie. And before the jrpg defense brigade attacks, last jrpg Ive play was FF12. Im not up on them anymore since Ive grown out of them. If you feel you know some great ones that are unique let me know.
 

sankt-Antonio

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Jun 22, 2008
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Fenderputty said:
LOL ... I see your point, but really I was only pointing out movies that had children as the protagonist. I was going to include Willow, but the main character was really an adult, just a small one. :lol
i see i misread your post - sorry!

-------
and you are right there are a lot of children in fantasy but there is a lot of fantasy without, while in jrpgs most are "childish" ... if it would even out this thread would not exist

(because i dont think the op wants every jrps being for adults... just some)
 

WrikaWrek

Banned
Oct 31, 2007
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A Link to the Snitch said:
Well, yes, in a way, these games are made for a younger audience like Spider-Man and Star Wars were.

But they aren't, that's the thing - those two appeal to all ages, just like many JRPGs do. Which you seem to refuse to accept.
I don't refuse to accept anything. I know Power Rangers is meant for kids but i'm sure there are people of all ages that like it.
 

Darkpen

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WrikaWrek said:
I didn't fight anything. I agreed. These games are made for a younger audience.

I'm just saying that there are grown ups out there too. And guess that's why FF seems to have some more mature characters right now.

I'm cool with it. The thread isn't stupid, you are just ofended, because you don't like people to question this, because you probably love this "trend" of kids in JRPGs.



LOTR is not about a teenager dude. Have you seen the movies? What do you think the trilogy is just about Frodo?

Or are you also missing the fact that Frodo plays a pretty different role than what the kids in JRPGs do?

Luke Skywalker was 18 when it began, and 22 when it ended, and he is the son of Darth Vader, and was trained by Obi Wan and Yoda in order to use the force and the lightsaber.

He wasn't some kid that suddenly picked up a sword and taking down true soldiers like it was nothing.

So no, it's not the same thing.
Cloud is 21 in FF7, so what's your point? :|

And who said I "love" this "trend" of JRPGs? :|

WrikaWrek said:
I don't refuse to accept anything. I know Power Rangers is meant for kids but i'm sure there are people of all ages that like it.
...then what in the world are you arguing about?
 

WrikaWrek

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Oct 31, 2007
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Darkpen said:
Cloud is 21 in FF7, so what's your point? :|

And who said I "love" this trend of JRPGs? :|
Dude how do you expect anyone to reply to that?

You went from water to lava like it was the same thing. If Cloud is 21 then he isn't a kid is he?

Darkpen said:
...then what in the world are you arguing about?
What are you, 10? Can you even keep up with a discussion?
 

Chinner

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Mar 14, 2007
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cause the kids playing are nerds and like to pretend/hope that one day they'll be able to fight wars and they will find the perfect lady with incredibly big boobs and a small waist and they will fall in love.
 

Koren

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Mar 11, 2005
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Kazenone said:
That's the demographic that usually play the games.
Could be (probably a part of the truth), but I'm not convinced that it's the only reason... Look at most fairy tales, they're often clearly targeted at adults (I wouldn't let children or even teenagers read some of the original ones, I'm not talking about Disney "rewritings" of course) and show many young or very young children.

I think this might have something to do with the way most JRPG scenarii are written. There's often older characters on their side, but they use the youth of the main character as a way to describe the situation, world and so on. Older characters have usually made their own mind, it's easier to use a younger character to give more emphasis on moral (and other) questions that could arise.
 

No6

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Oct 15, 2004
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A Link to the Snitch said:
1. The whole concept of Spider-Man was a TEENAGER getting super heroes. The fact that Spider-Man EVENTUALLY became an adult after ten years does not change what it is, and what it is is a comic that started with a teenager. I can use Spider-Man because it's an example of a famous American material that does this too - it's not just "JRPGs like kid stories lol". Spider-Man existed for teens back in the day, and was made a teen as a result. The fact that he becomes an adult doesn't mean it doesn't compare to JRPGs - where is there any opportunity to become an adult in these games? Most examples either don't have sequels or have unrelated sequels.
What you really seem to be missing is that the thread is about a trend in JRPGs and you decided to counter that with a single example from a genre where Spider-Man was explicitly created as an expection to the rule.

2. lol @ you seemingly getting all worked up over my statements. Why don't you complain about Spider-Man? I'm guessing because you want this anti-JRPG thread to succeed.
I responded to "where's the quality in "oh, hi, I'm an adult, I know basically all the stuff you need to know about the world, and I is going to save it!"?". It basically indicated that you're either a teen or a manchild who feels incredibly insecure about his lack of personal growth. Why would I complain about Spider-Man when he's not representative of the genre?

But please, continue to rabidly defend a tired genre convention.

3. And Spider-Man has existed for well over four decades. Unless you mistyped, he's been a teenager for nearly half of the comic's life.
I said he got married in 1987. If you had bothered checking wikipedia, Peter Parker graduated high school in 1965. He also proposed to MJ in 1978, so I'm guessing he was out of his teens by then.

Spider-man hasn't been a teenager for longer than most people on this board have been alive. The only exception to this is Ultimate Spider-man, where Peter Parker being a high school teen and the accompanying "real-world" issues that involves (including being harangued by almost every other adult superhero) is a major part of the story, and certainly doesn't come across as ridiculous as the JRPGs we're referring.
 
Jun 3, 2005
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I like RPGs with older characters. Vagrant Story and Mass Effect come to mind. Pretty awesome characters in those, too.

Final Fantasy XII and the Persona games are pretty good with young characters.
 

Darkpen

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Mar 14, 2007
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WrikaWrek said:
Dude how do you expect anyone to reply to that?

You went from water to lava like it was the same thing. If Cloud is 21 then he isn't a kid is he?



What are you, 10? Can you even keep up with a discussion?
If you haven't been generalizing JRPGs, then I don't know what.

My point is, trend or not (and yes, I do recognize RPGs where the protagonist is between 8-18), this isn't a big enough issue to make a thread about it.

I mean, what JRPGs are you so concerned about to begin with? What games, as of recent that you actually care about, feature young heroes?

The idea of appealing to a younger demographic isn't exactly new or anything either. Have you forgotten what its like to be a kid again, or something? Are you so caught up with your changes in tastes that you are no longer capable of relating with the younger generation?
 

Oblivion

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Jul 17, 2005
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The better question would be why there are actually people - and by that, I mean, adults, 18 and up - that actually PREFER having their games star pre pubescent little tykes. It's just baffling to me.
 

Ferrio

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Jun 7, 2004
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Know what I like? Good RPGs.

If I'm making a fuss about the character age, then I'm not paying attention to the most important aspect of the game.
 
Jun 3, 2005
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Oblivion said:
The better question would be why there are actually people - and by that, I mean, adults, 18 and up - that actually PREFER having their games star pre pubescent little tykes. It's just baffling to me.
They're just pedophiles.

dude said:
100% of the Japanese population are pedophiles.
Beaten. :(
 

Mamesj

Banned
Jul 30, 2007
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Even if they are teens, I like when "teen-ness" isn't emphasized. Like in Nocturne. Also, like Nocturne, DDS has a darker, more hopeless setting which I love.

Shit, sometimes its not even "teen" level. Look at Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, and Tales of Vesperia...I'm still trying to get the cutesy saccharine taste out of my mouth...and I've only played the demos of those games :(


The simple fact of the matter, I guess, is that JRPGs generally aren't "growing up" as a genre with its fanbase from the Snes/PS1 days. I'd wager that a lot of the fanbase from those days still likes the younger style.


Ferrio said:
Know what I like? Good RPGs.

If I'm making a fuss about the character age, then I'm not paying attention to the most important aspect of the game.

but a lot of fans emphasize the story over the game play, in which case it helps to relate to the material. I tend to like gameplay better, but an rpg (or any game, really) more suited to my tastes in narrative would help me overlook the gameplay, whereas a super cutesy spiky haired JRPG might turn me off, even if the gameplay is fun.
 

Pimpbaa

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dude said:
100% of the Japanese population are pedophiles.
Sounds like something I would say. Anyway, this is one of my major gripes about jrpgs. Makes it more unbelieaveable to me. Not like the games are realistic to begin with, but still. Some kid is not going to have the wisdom to lead a group or be a helpful part of a group that is trying to save the world or whatever.
 

Darkpen

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Mar 14, 2007
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dude said:
100% of the Japanese population are pedophiles.
joke post?

Oblivion said:
The better question would be why there are actually people - and by that, I mean, adults, 18 and up - that actually PREFER having their games star pre pubescent little tykes. It's just baffling to me.
something something manchilds something something NEETs something unmarried middleaged officewomen something something Akihabara.

Ferrio said:
Know what I like? Good RPGs.

If I'm making a fuss about the character age, then I'm not paying attention to the most important aspect of the game.
what I've been trying to say this whole time. Thank you.
 

WrikaWrek

Banned
Oct 31, 2007
14,221
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Darkpen said:
I mean, what JRPGs are you so concerned about to begin with? What games, as of recent that you actually care about, feature young heroes?
I just mentioned 2 games in the op. I'm really not going to bother replying to you if you aren't 1st) interested in the discussion (you don't have to post in this thread) 2nd) keep acting like you don't know what's being discussed 3rd) keep overlooking what has already been said.

So really, if you aren't interest just don't post.

Oblivion said:
The better question would be why there are actually people - and by that, I mean, adults, 18 and up - that actually PREFER having their games star pre pubescent little tykes. It's just baffling to me.
Yeah i don't quite understand that either.


Mamesj said:
Even if they are teens, I like when "teen-ness" isn't emphasized. Like in Nocturne. Also, like Nocturne, DDS has a darker, more hopeless setting which I love.

Shit, sometimes its not even "teen" level. Look at Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, and Tales of Vesperia...I'm still trying to get the cutesy saccharine taste out of my mouth...and I've only played the demos of those games :(


The simple fact of the matter, I guess, is that JRPGs generally aren't "growing up" as a genre with its fanbase from the Snes/PS1 days. I'd wager that a lot of the fanbase from those days still likes the younger style.
I personally have a hard time believing that most kids even enjoy most of these RPGs, as they are just too darn complex. So yeah some part of me thinks that in reality is that even though they are grown ups, they actually like and want to play as these kids.

And what you say about the story is true. I don't grind my way through 40 hours of gameplay because the combat is so good that it makes you want to keep replaying it for 40 hours, but because of story.

Ferrio said:
Know what I like? Good RPGs.

If I'm making a fuss about the character age, then I'm not paying attention to the most important aspect of the game.
Yeah i enjoy good RPGs too. Too bad that a big part of what makes a JRPg good is the story. IMO.
 

Oblivion

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Uh, just in case anybody takes my previous comment the wrong way, I was NOT trying to call anyone a pedophile this time.
 

Firestorm

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RSLAEV said:
This is why I like Lost Odyssey, the main characters (so far) are actual adults, with adult voices. All in all it seems like a much more mature approach.

Of course I bought Tales of Vesperia and now it's back to
Did you start playing yet? Yuri's 21 or 22 and actually lacks a lot of the cliches that make most jRPG protagonists so childish and annoying. Which is weird considering it's a Tales game and they like their cliches.
 
Feb 1, 2006
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RSLAEV said:
This is why I like Lost Odyssey, the main characters (so far) are actual adults, with adult voices. All in all it seems like a much more mature approach.

Of course I bought Tales of Vesperia and now it's back to
No way. Yuri is one badass, grown-up man.
 

RurouniZel

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It's harder to tell a story with character development with a protagonist who's already gone through their growing pains. Much easier to sympathize with a character who's just discovering the way of the world when they're a teenager/young kid.
 
Aug 24, 2005
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Oblivion said:
The better question would be why there are actually people - and by that, I mean, adults, 18 and up - that actually PREFER having their games star pre pubescent little tykes. It's just baffling to me.
Agreed.

Lost Odyssey is the best JRPG i have played in years. Adult lead characters FTW.
 

Yoboman

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Death_Born

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Yoboman said:
Wow Basch was meant to be the main character? That would've worked so much better
Basch: "I'M CAPTAIN VAAN RATSBANE OF DALMASCA!"

In all seriousness, Vaan and Penelo should have been deleted. Stop getting annoying kid all over my political intrigue!
 

Dali

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RurouniZel said:
It's harder to tell a story with character development with a protagonist who's already gone through their growing pains. Much easier to sympathize with a character who's just discovering the way of the world when they're a teenager/young kid.
That's why you kill their family. Look at Frank Castle. He was going to be a priest until it happened.
 

Redd

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Yoboman said:
Wow Basch was meant to be the main character? That would've worked so much better
Seriously he really should have or Balthier. Hell I'd take Vaan's brother over him...........he was just there.
 

AgentOtaku

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Question has already been answered well enough in this thread


...I will say though, being a parent now, these kinds of stories/protaganists, appeal to me more than they ever have in my life
 
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RSLAEV said:
This is why I like Lost Odyssey, the main characters (so far) are actual adults, with adult voices. All in all it seems like a much more mature approach.

Of course I bought Tales of Vesperia and now it's back to
Who's a 23 year old badass. Try again
using the many cases of annoying kids with no real basis for combat skill like that one guy was rightly going on about.
 

KongRudi

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Dec 25, 2006
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I think it's because you die alot in JRPG's - and it's better that the kids die, since they don't contribute to society as much as adults.
So that's probably the reason. :)