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[megreotsugua]

Seeing R&C , I would say that would be impossible on HDD. So yeah, that's some secret Sauce SSD!

And that's impossible with any pc with ssD as well as xsex. Unless they employ some tricks like preloading the assets and gimping the visual of the game to compensate. There's a reason the medium look like it does - an xbox one game.

The only way a PC and xsex with SSD can do the R&C is if the game does not allow you to warp to any place of your choice. If the warping to different place is pre-determined then a PC with SSD and xsex can do the same tricks. But if the game gives you 10 choices of where you could possible warp to, then no pc with ssd and no xsex can do that. We have to know more about the game, also Horizon, to say exactly how the SSD was taken advantage of.

And it's not only the raw bandwidth. We already have a lot of devs who spoke up about how the xsex I/O is not up to par. An xbox dev even saying the discrepancy is even to the point of ps5 instant loading would require an "elevator ride" loading on xsex. We have already seen the 11 seconds loading of xsex. We have yet to see PS5 loading but devs have been saying for a while now that it will be instant.

 

[N1tr0sOx1d3]

There were plenty of hitches.

Sony did a poor job showcasing not just the ssd but also the cpu upgrades. These guys couldn't sell a weekend with a Victoria secret model if they tried.

You're right, Sony couldn't even sell 110,000,000 consoles last gen...oh wait........ Salty much?

 

[ZywyPL]

It was fully expected, or dare I say, know. There was of course a bunch of clowns who completely derailed the entire board since March 18 by flooding it with infinite SSD threads and SSD posts, even in topics that are strictly XB or PC related with their "game-changing paradigm shift" slogan, but other than that, everyone with a tiny bit of common sense and knowledge knew that all along. I mean, it's all just a business, if someone cannot accept that single yet most important fact should IMO be be allowed to take part in any discussion. All those companies, their execs and developers are here solely to make money, nothing more, nothing less, which means absolutely no one will abandon PCs, laptops, and current-gen consoles with HDDs.

That being said, I have to make huge shout for Sony, THANK YOU! for proving all those clowns completely wrong and making them finally shut the fuck up, the forum is finally cured and we can get back to normal, reality-based discussions.

 

[Aceofspades]

It was fully expected, or dare I say, know. There was of course a bunch of clowns who completely derailed the entire board since March 18 by flooding it with infinite SSD threads and SSD posts, even in topic that are strictly XB or PC related with their "game-changing paradigm shift" slogan, but other than that, everyone with a tiny bit of common sense and knowledge knew that all along. I mean, it's all just a business, if someone cannot accept that single yet most important fact should IMO be be allowed to take part in any discussion. All those companies, their execs and developers are here solely to make money, nothing more, nothing less, which means absolutely no one will abandon PCs, Laptops, and current-gen consoles with HDDs.

That being said, I have to make huge shout for Sony, THANK YOU! for proving all those clowns completely wrong and making them finally shut the fuck up, the forum is finally cured and we can get back to normal, reality-based discussions.

Gen hasn't even started, don't you feel its early to type this comment?

 

[Graciaus]

If there is something truly special about the PS5 SSD it would take years before developers learned how to fully take advantage of it. I wouldn't expect anything crazy outside of first party developers and not until mid or late generation. It's been this way for every console generation.

 

[N1tr0sOx1d3]

If there is something truly special about the PS5 SSD it would take years before developers learned how to fully take advantage of it. I wouldn't expect anything crazy outside of first party developers and not until mid or late generation. It's been this way for every console generation.

So much truth here. As with any new tech, comes new ways of doing things, tricks, workarounds and optimisations. I'll be happy to go from ~1 minute load times to seconds any day! Its been a curse this gen.

 

[prinz_valium]

Seeing R&C , I would say that would be impossible on HDD. So yeah, that's some secret Sauce SSD!

Impossible on HDD, but not even impossible on a regular PC SSD, let alone the Series X SSD.
We're talking about games that are only possible on the Ps5 SSD

 

[Aceofspades]

Impossible on HDD, but not even impossible on a regular PC SSD, let alone the Series X SSD.
We're talking about games that are only possible on the Ps5 SSD

Well, what makes you sure about this? Even assuming what you typed is true. As the gen progresses what prevents Sony or other devs from utilizing 5.5GB/s SSD on PS5? They have a decade to just do that.

This thread is just silly

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Portal prep for loading in 3-2-1.

51s to 58s...hmm

seems he enters at 53 and exits at 56.

In any case not all portals might have same time, there might be artistic reasons for some portals to be faster or slower.

 

[prinz_valium]

Well, what makes you sure about this? Even assuming what you typed is true. As the gen progresses what prevents Sony or other devs from utilizing 5.5GB/s SSD on PS5? They have a decade to just do that.

This thread is just silly

Because asset streaming is just one part. You also need to render stuff. If you stream faster than you can render it's useless.
That's why I still fail to see how the SSD can compensate other areas.


And if you have a low fidelity game, it's easy to stream more assets. You don't need that much bandwidth.
You can't go to much into one extreme or the other.

 

[longdi]

seems he enters at 53 and exits at 56.

In any case not all portals might have same time, there might be artistic reasons for some portals to be faster or slower.

imo the loading takes place once control is taken from the player so is 51 to 58

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

The primary components are what matters most. Some little Hitler threatened to perma me for trying to talk the loonies down from believing in magic

 

[Tulipanzo]

imo the loading takes place once control is taken from the player so is 51 to 58

In the trailer control isn't taken from the player and the transition lasts for as short as 1.5s.

Looking forward to who you think has ever done better.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Ohh is that a PS5 game?

SSD doing work.

It's playable on the PS5. Maybe it's even better on it. And I'm pretty sure the PS5s I/O can help it out.

 

[Psykodad]

Because asset streaming is just one part. You also need to render stuff. If you stream faster than you can render it's useless.
That's why I still fail to see how the SSD can compensate other areas.


And if you have a low fidelity game, it's easy to stream more assets. You don't need that much bandwidth.
You can't go to much into one extreme or the other.

Isn't the whole point of the PS5 SSD that they can stream the same amount of assets at higher fidelity?
Just slightly lower res compared to XSX.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It said captured on a PS5, it never said it was running on it.

Oh come on...

 

[cireza]

ratchet is not just between two worlds but what looked like changing through over half a dozen worlds.

So to make a proper level that uses the SSD, you need to build 6 entire worlds each time to see them only 15 seconds each.

Development time : 150 years.

On topic, there was nothing special indeed. Ratchet had loading screens between worlds, so you could achieve the same thing with a longer load time. Ratchet basically was Sonic CD.

 

[MasterCornholio]

They could have plugged a PC in and recorded it on the PS5 to make it true.

Are you claiming that's true though? Using a PS5 to record game off a PC just so they can make a claim that the footage was recorded with a PS5.

That's a pretty crazy theory and seems a bit dumb to be suggesting it.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

imo the loading takes place once control is taken from the player so is 51 to 58

I think you can probably move around during the fall. At least during the helicopter fall after 56 that is almost certain.

 

[Psykodad]

So to make a proper level that uses the SSD, you need to build 6 entire worlds each time to see them only 15 seconds each.

Development time : 150 years.

On topic, there was nothing special indeed. Ratchet had loading screens between worlds, so you could achieve the same thing with a longer load time. Ratchet basically was Sonic CD.

Or, 6 levels that you can alternate between on the fly instead of having to travel to them while the game loads.

Kinda like Destiny and it's destinations, without the orbit, travel-screens, just instantly at any given time.

 

[ZywyPL]

Gen hasn't even started, don't you feel its early to type this comment?

Absolutely not. Really, realistically, if there will indeed occur some really fancy/advanced SSD utilisation (key word, IF), it won't happen earlier than 3-4 years after launch, in 2023-24, and the technology doesn't stop advancing, to say the least, which means by that time PCs will be already 2-3 generations ahead and nothing the next-gen consoles will show then will be impressive anymore. That's how things always have been, and this will most likely never change. I mean, the upcoming systems basically received the biggest technological jump consoles have ever seen, and yet they are once again doing what PCs have been doing for some time already. Bottom line is, you can achieve only so much with limited budget (and we don't even know the price of the upcoming consoles yet).

 

[BigLee74]

So, we've gone from Sony fans claiming 'no loading' times for complete games at the SSD reveal, to R & C taking 2 seconds to go through a portal into a different area in the same game.

Guess what gentlemen, you've bought the Emperors clothes.

The speed of the SSDs are great, but there is no game changer here. Quicker loading is the best we are getting, and whilst PS5 will be quicker in the majority of cases, nobody is going to notice or care.

It will take me longer to scratch my testicles and pick up the controller in either case.

 

[Dontero]

The games that will fully utilize SSD years out.

Just like Xbox One second GPU to be unlocked in next 2 years.

Ratchet and Clank showcased moving between worlds (levels) through rifts.

Which didn't happen instantly but you had mass effect 3 like elevator scene.

 

[prinz_valium]

Isn't the whole point of the PS5 SSD that they can stream the same amount of assets at higher fidelity?
Just slightly lower res compared to XSX.

I guess that depends on what you want to achieve. And as I said. Just streaming assets isn't enough. You also need to render those and that needs horsepower.
If you have 1000nm of torque but only super small tires with no grip, your care won't go fast. That's the point I was making.

And I'm still skeptical if we'll ever see such a game on Ps5. I expect other stuff to limit the game, before the Ps5 will limit.
But developers are smart. Some will come up with creative ideas and solutions to still utilize the speed. I just don't see some games being possible on Ps5 but not on Series X.
That makes no sense so far for me.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

It said captured on a PS5, it never said it was running on it. Don’t make shit up.

They could have plugged a PC in and recorded it on the PS5 to make it true.

Think about what they say, not what you think.

not enough tin foil, go further. Throw them factz, dont let anyone stop you.

 

[Shmunter]

Until XSX versions are shown with half the detail.

 

[Psykodad]

I guess that depends on what you want to achieve. And as I said. Just streaming assets isn't enough. You also need to render those and that needs horsepower.
If you have 1000nm of torque but only super small tires with no grip, your care won't go fast. That's the point I was making.

And I'm still skeptical if we'll ever see such a game on Ps5. I expect other stuff to limit the game, before the Ps5 will limit.
But developers are smart. Some will come up with creative ideas and solutions to still utilize the speed. I just don't see some games being possible on Ps5 but not on Series X.
That makes no sense so far for me.

But technically, what XSX can do, PS5 can do at lower res/performance with higher details.
So that's the trade-off.

I'd rather have 1440p/30fps (maybe pushed to 4K CB) with high graphical fidelity than native 4K/30fps with medium graphical fidelity and 40% better ray-tracing.
Give or take, just an hypothetical example.

And like that Dirt 5 dev said, we might see sections on XSX, for example, where there's an elevator section that's absent on PS5.

Because that's probably the kind of differences we can expect (as far as I understand).
And ultimately, it's probably barely noticeable to the average consumer either way.

 

[Handy Fake]

As has probably been mentioned regarding R&C, we don't know if the portals were necessary or an artistic choice at this point.
Cerny mentioned in his talk regarding fast travel that fade out/fade ins and suchlike would probably become the norm as an instant travel would be quite jarring for the player.
No doubt we'll find out when the Insomniac devs open up about it.

 

[South]

You didn't see Ratchet & Clanks changing from one environment to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT one instantly without a hitch?

with a 2-3 second 'load' time as he is between dimensions... which would would be 4-6 seconds if we assume 2x slower xsx.

but they did demo it nice with such different worlds

 

[Allandor]

Sony aren‘t defying the laws of physics. Of course if you’re changing everything the player can see on the fly, there is the finite time it takes to load. The fact PS5 can stream from the SSD, into VRAM, through the gpu and onto the screen in “real-time” Is incredible.

The sheer amount of geometry, detail and texture fidelity despite jumping at those speeds isn’t something a PS4 console could do without heavy compromises.

yes, the PS5 can do it (more or less exact, still the SSD ist far to slow to saturate the GPU, so some kind of "cache" must be in memory) but the GPU has still to process all this data and that's where the bottleneck still is. Next gen consoles will just make it easier to manage your memory usage. The PS4 can do this (with memory cache) but of course it can't do that in this detail, just be cause the PS4 has just 1.8x TF of GPU compute power. But if you scale everything down it should be possible.
In the end, it is just a loading-advantage.

btw, if you load details like in the UE5 demo, your SSD would be full before the whole game is downloaded. That is the next bottleneck the PS5 & xbox s x will have.

The SSDs in the consoles are just to small to really get something like UE5 Demo working in a whole game.

with a 2-3 second 'load' time as he is between dimensions... which would would be 4-6 seconds if we assume 2x slower xsx.

but they did demo it nice with such different worlds

What you can also see in the demo, it is a "loading tunnel" and the next portal to the next level is opened as soon as everything is loaded. A nice way to make the "elevator" ride as short as possible, but if the SSD struggles to load the data the ride can still be a bit longer. Overall nicely designed.

 

[Redlight]

And that's impossible with any pc with ssD as well as xsex. Unless they employ some tricks like preloading the assets and gimping the visual of the game to compensate. There's a reason the medium look like it does - an xbox one game.

The only way a PC and xsex with SSD can do the R&C is if the game does not allow you to warp to any place of your choice. If the warping to different place is pre-determined then a PC with SSD and xsex can do the same tricks. But if the game gives you 10 choices of where you could possible warp to, then no pc with ssd and no xsex can do that. We have to know more about the game, also Horizon, to say exactly how the SSD was taken advantage of.

And it's not only the raw bandwidth. We already have a lot of devs who spoke up about how the xsex I/O is not up to par. An xbox dev even saying the discrepancy is even to the point of ps5 instant loading would require an "elevator ride" loading on xsex. We have already seen the 11 seconds loading of xsex. We have yet to see PS5 loading but devs have been saying for a while now that it will be instant.

That's quite a lot of misinformation you've jammed in there.

You have absolutely no idea if that R&C game would be possible on the Series X or PC.

The Series X I/0 is not as fast as the PS5 sure but 'not up to par'? That's just utter nonsense.

That elevator comment was a throwaway line in a podcast, not an analysis or a statement of fact. He should've been more careful, he obviously wasn't aware of how innocent comments can be twisted. The person who said it, Bill Stillwell, went on to clarify "it wouldn't be a podcast if I wasn't taken out of context shortly after", maybe he was referring to you directly?

The State of Decay loading example was not 11 seconds...

"State of Decay 2 goes from loading in about 45 seconds on Xbox One X to just seven seconds on Xbox Series X. Even more impressively, this is with no extra work or optimization done, that's just how much State of Decay 2 benefits when installed on an Xbox Series X."

Xbox Series X loading times demo shows State of Decay 2 load in just seven seconds

Xbox Series X changes the game for load times.

www.windowscentral.com

With. No. Optimization.

 

[Shmunter]

with a 2-3 second 'load' time as he is between dimensions... which would would be 4-6 seconds if we assume 2x slower xsx.

but they did demo it nice with such different worlds

Many of the games shown would have been streaming assets during real-time gameplay. Why not, games do it today already. Any game that leverages on the streaming speed will show the difference in comparisons.

The tech will not be restricted to just loading everything in a batch.

 

[bargeparty]

I'm not even gonna bother reading this but some of you people are really stupid.

 

[Dory16]

There never was. The console with the much stronger GPU&CPU , with fixed clock rates, and the better Ram will always have the big advantage, no matter how much noise Sony makes. Sony is an expert in pre-release noise, they destroyed the dreamcast with ps2 bs hype, they tried to pin the excellent xbox360 as Xbox 1.5 with their infamous E32005 (where they showed a bunch of cgi videos masquerading as gameplay), they went on a clear smear campaign against the Xbox one taking advantage of MS’ mistakes and now, having the much lower specced and extremely questionable (with the....variable clock rates) machine they went full force on the bullshit «news and opinions» (with the help of their legion of fans and gaming media) to try and make us forget everything we knew about what makes a computer, because that is what consoles are, powerful.

This ammounted to what , in their first big showing (and it was a big showing not an inside Xbox with a few AA titles) ? A spider man spin off that looks like an enhanced BC version of spider man (gears 5 on the XSX already looks better), a nice looking ratchet game, an excellent looking horizon 2 that will probably be released in 2022 and a bunch of cutscenes from a ps2 remake.

Digital foundry comparison videos will be wild.

Amen my brother. Don't forget to drop that mic.

 

[ToadMan]

yes, the PS5 can do it (more or less exact, still the SSD ist far to slow to saturate the GPU, so some kind of "cache" must be in memory) but the GPU has still to process all this data

And self evidently the GPU does process that information.

So you’ve answered the question yourself - the PS5 is the only machine capable of doing this without compromise.


And you even managed to come to that conclusion yourself with just a little bit of direction from me to get you thinking.

The rest of what you wrote is irrelevant to the question.

 

[raul3d]

imo the loading takes place once control is taken from the player so is 51 to 58

Are you serious? Sure, the loading starts while the current level is still fully rendered.. and it ends way after the new level is rendered. What exactly would it load after the level is already rendered? This makes no sense. The loading can only start if the current level's assets are no longer required, which is once you are fully in the portal. Loading is finished before you exit the portal.

 

[magnumpy]

it will be a true revelation once videogames can finally take advantage of the unimaginable power of an SSD

 

[Dory16]

Aw poor MS with their huge market cap and money and marketing... Is big bad Sony picking on you....?

Come on man - a few weeks ago ms had their Xsex game play reveal with no gameplay, no 1st party exclusives and none of it running on Xsex.

Whatever next? Blame Sony for MS chopping their first party and having no games?

MS failures in the gaming sector are all made by MS, no one else.

No trailer I saw yesterday topped the Hellblade 2 trailer and that was released half a year ago. Yes, by MS, the eternal underachievers.
You're totally right that we should see everything running on the final hardware. Hopefully MS will stick to that in July or there will be deep and legitimate disappointment.

 

[ToadMan]

So, we've gone from Sony fans claiming 'no loading' times for complete games at the SSD reveal, to R & C taking 2 seconds to go through a portal into a different area in the same game.

Guess what gentlemen, you've bought the Emperors clothes.

The speed of the SSDs are great, but there is no game changer here. Quicker loading is the best we are getting, and whilst PS5 will be quicker in the majority of cases, nobody is going to notice or care.

It will take me longer to scratch my testicles and pick up the controller in either case.

I think you’re too busy checking out the emperor’s junk to see why you’re mistaken.

The way R+C is designed and plays (based on what we saw) depends precisely on those SSD access times. Take that away, and the game is hobbled - in fact it’s he same game.

You may feel this isn’t a particularly worthwhile use of the tech - I don’t know until I try or at least see some reviews. But the SSD tech is what’s making it possible.

Assuming those portals are in Some way dynamic and player controlled, it’s an impressive performance.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Oh nevermind

 

[Leyasu]

I know it’s difficult to comprehend that a 15% tflops advantage isn’t getting the Xsex an actual res or FPS advantage.

But that’s how the tech works. Much like a 9gb/s transfer rate is 100% faster than Xsex.

The results speak for themselves.

You can quickly imagine what R+C would be like xsex - just pause the video for 2seconds every time they pass a portal lol

No, you just extend the falling part for 2 seconds.

 

[ToadMan]

No trailer I saw yesterday topped the Hellblade 2 trailer and that was released half a year ago. Yes, by MS, the eternal underachievers.
You're totally right that we should see everything running on the final hardware. Hopefully MS will stick to that in July or there will be deep and legitimate disappointment.

The hell blade 2 trailer .... the one running on a PC at 24 FPS lol?

The game they’ve just switched to UE5 to try and ride some of the Epic magic.

Sure be impressed and save that feeling up for 4 years until the game is released.

 

[Tulipanzo]

It was fully expected, or dare I say, know. There was of course a bunch of clowns who completely derailed the entire board since March 18 by flooding it with infinite SSD threads and SSD posts, even in topics that are strictly XB or PC related with their "game-changing paradigm shift" slogan, but other than that, everyone with a tiny bit of common sense and knowledge knew that all along. I mean, it's all just a business, if someone cannot accept that single yet most important fact should IMO be be allowed to take part in any discussion. All those companies, their execs and developers are here solely to make money, nothing more, nothing less, which means absolutely no one will abandon PCs, laptops, and current-gen consoles with HDDs.

That being said, I have to make huge shout for Sony, THANK YOU! for proving all those clowns completely wrong and making them finally shut the fuck up, the forum is finally cured and we can get back to normal, reality-based discussions.

Sony showed:
- Several games looking miles ahead graphically than anything else on the market
- Actual gameplay at a Gameplay Reveal
- Incredible levels of detail everywhere, an abundance of particle effects
- A wide array of different games, both for families and more seasoned players
- Plenty of different genres, both within and without Sony's first party
- A GAME IN WHICH YOU LITERALLY TELEPORT BETWEEN DIMENSIONS

You and I both know you're talking shit to cover your ass, but I felt it worth pointing out as you beclown yourself.

 

[ToadMan]

No, you just extend the falling part for 2 seconds.

Sure - you can enjoy the half speed load when Sony put R&C on Xbox ....

 

[Leyasu]

And that's impossible with any pc with ssD as well as xsex. Unless they employ some tricks like preloading the assets and gimping the visual of the game to compensate. There's a reason the medium look like it does - an xbox one game.

The only way a PC and xsex with SSD can do the R&C is if the game does not allow you to warp to any place of your choice. If the warping to different place is pre-determined then a PC with SSD and xsex can do the same tricks. But if the game gives you 10 choices of where you could possible warp to, then no pc with ssd and no xsex can do that. We have to know more about the game, also Horizon, to say exactly how the SSD was taken advantage of.

And it's not only the raw bandwidth. We already have a lot of devs who spoke up about how the xsex I/O is not up to par. An xbox dev even saying the discrepancy is even to the point of ps5 instant loading would require an "elevator ride" loading on xsex. We have already seen the 11 seconds loading of xsex. We have yet to see PS5 loading but devs have been saying for a while now that it will be instant.

Yeah no. That 11 seconds loading screen of state of decay was not optimized in any way for an SSD and would still need more than 5 seconds to load on the ps5.

What was shown in RC last night was really great. Fucking amazing in fact. But let’s not pretend that those 1+ seconds of loading in the portals that would translate to 3+ seconds on the XsX are anything more than trivial. It’s a complete nothingburger.

 

[Dodkrake]

So to make a proper level that uses the SSD, you need to build 6 entire worlds each time to see them only 15 seconds each.

Development time : 150 years.

On topic, there was nothing special indeed. Ratchet had loading screens between worlds, so you could achieve the same thing with a longer load time. Ratchet basically was Sonic CD.

Yeah, you could totally have this game in an HDD with the exact same graphics, but loading each "level" would take 1 minute instead of 2 seconds.

Totally ok from a game design perspective, I'm sure the SSD was not needed at all.

 

[Leyasu]

Sure - you can enjoy the half speed load when Sony put R&C on Xbox ....

Obviously that ain’t happening. But I am sure that you got my point regarding loading

 

[FALCON_KICK]

Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart showed almost instant switching of entire worlds on the fly without slowing down to a crawl or visible pop-in and the trailer showed switching between multiple worlds and not just 2 maps, along with flying on a dragon into another world.

 

[Dory16]

The hell blade 2 trailer .... the one running on a PC at 24 FPS lol?

The game they’ve just switched to UE5 to try and ride some of the Epic magic.

Sure be impressed and save that feeling up for 4 years until the game is released.

The Xsex was not finalised when it came out so I'll give MS a pass on that one. As for Scorn and the Medium, I am not too offended that they were demoed on PC because the developers all confirmed 4k60 on the XSex (not a game we saw yesterday made any resolution of framerate claims, so as to psychologically prepare people for anything).
In July however, I will be the first person to scream foul if Infinite is not running on an XSX.

 

[magnumpy]

you have to believe for the secret sauce to work