Can we really end racism if we don't address the root causes of racism?

pramod

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I know this will be a controversial take on the subject, but I wonder why throughout history, people have always tried to "stop" racism in very simplistic ways. They would just say "don't be racist", or "racism is bad". But racism is a very complex issue with many causes and roots in many things. It's like telling people who hate pitbulls to just "stop hating pitbulls". Why not try to address why these people hate pitbulls in the first place?

We are living in a world where 99% of people are educated enough to know that humans all share the same physiology and DNA. So why does racism still exist? It certainly isn't just out of ignorance, right? So I don't see how helpful it is to just call racists "dumb" or "ignorant".

Of course there will still be a very small percentage of idiots and losers that hate other races no matter what, but my topic isn't about those people. I'm addressing the much more typical "racist" sentiments and attitudes. IMHO the causes for "hating" a certain race seems to boil down to these factors:

1. The perception that they are somehow detrimental to society (causing violence, crime, taking jobs, etc).
2. The perception that they are unable to integrate into a culture
3. The perception that they are given special treatment

So why don't people want to address what could be causing such perceptions? I think it would be much more helpful than just simply telling people to be "more tolerant" or "less hateful". Because I believe that humans are not inherently racist, but it's societal factors that creates race related hatred. There are many countries in the world where racism simply isn't an issue (like Japan for example).
 
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Gander

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Some people are born with the desire to subjugate or mess with others. Worse than that they think it's their right. The problems stem from there
 

Cybrwzrd

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I know this will be a controversial take on the subject, but I wonder why throughout history, people have always tried to "stop" racism in very simplistic ways. They would just say "don't be racist", or "racism is bad". But racism is a very complex issue with many causes and roots in many things. It's like telling people who hate pitbulls to just "stop hating pitbulls". Why not try to address why these people hate pitbulls in the first place?

We are living in a world where 99% of people are educated enough to know that humans all share the same physiology and DNA. So why does racism still exist? It certainly isn't just out of ignorance, right? So I don't see how helpful it is to just call racists "dumb" or "ignorant".

Of course there will still be a very small percentage of idiots and losers that hate other races no matter what, but my topic isn't about those people. I'm addressing the much more typical "racist" sentiments and attitudes. IMHO the causes for "hating" a certain race seems to boil down to these factors:

1. The perception that they are somehow detrimental to their society (causing violence, crime, taking jobs, etc).
2. The perception that they are unable to integrate into a culture
3. The perception that they are given special treatment

So why don't people want to address what could be causing such perceptions? I think it would be much more helpful than just simply telling people to be "more tolerant" or "less hateful". Because I believe that humans are not inherently racist, but it's societal factors that creates race related hatred. There are many countries in the world where racism simply isn't an issue (like Japan for example).
Racism isn't an issue in Japan? It only isn't an issue because there are so few there that aren't Japanese. The few there who are there, say, of Korean descent aren't treated all too well.

But yeah, it is virtually impossible to end. Mashing disparate cultures together without proper integration, or having subcultures exist outside of the main group identity will always cause friction.
 

n0razi

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I don' t think you can ever erase racism. Stigma and bias is an inherent human trait.

Rules and regulation help by using punishment as a deterrence but that only works on sane logical people.
 

All Hail C-Webb

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99% of people? Na, we're lucky if 50% of people are capable of that much thought.

The root causes of racism are failure, and lack of intelligence.

There's no way to address that until we get into gene manipulation.
 

matt404au

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We were well on our way until ideologues in universities invented the "racism = prejudice + power" definition and the useful idiots lapped it up.
 

pramod

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99% of people? Na, we're lucky if 50% of people are capable of that much thought.

The root causes of racism are failure, and lack of intelligence.

There's no way to address that until we get into gene manipulation.
How is this sort of hyperbole helpful? This is why politics are so polarized in this country right now. When you say that everyone who voted for Trump is a dumb uneducated racist, how do you continue the conversation?
 
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JordanN

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We are living in a world where 99% of people are educated enough to know that humans all share the same physiology and DNA. So why does racism still exist? It certainly isn't just out of ignorance, right? So I don't see how helpful it is to just call racists "dumb" or "ignorant".
Men and Women also share 99% same DNA, but there are still vast differences between genders and by consequence, sexism.

It's unfortunate that the topic of race doesn't get its own recognition in science without it being cast as controversial.
I posted a long list of studies that span 100 years, and everything that was true back then still exists today.
 
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TheGreatYosh

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I know this will be a controversial take on the subject, but I wonder why throughout history, people have always tried to "stop" racism in very simplistic ways. They would just say "don't be racist", or "racism is bad". But racism is a very complex issue with many causes and roots in many things. It's like telling people who hate pitbulls to just "stop hating pitbulls". Why not try to address why these people hate pitbulls in the first place?

We are living in a world where 99% of people are educated enough to know that humans all share the same physiology and DNA. So why does racism still exist? It certainly isn't just out of ignorance, right? So I don't see how helpful it is to just call racists "dumb" or "ignorant".

Of course there will still be a very small percentage of idiots and losers that hate other races no matter what, but my topic isn't about those people. I'm addressing the much more typical "racist" sentiments and attitudes. IMHO the causes for "hating" a certain race seems to boil down to these factors:

1. The perception that they are somehow detrimental to society (causing violence, crime, taking jobs, etc).
2. The perception that they are unable to integrate into a culture
3. The perception that they are given special treatment

So why don't people want to address what could be causing such perceptions? I think it would be much more helpful than just simply telling people to be "more tolerant" or "less hateful". Because I believe that humans are not inherently racist, but it's societal factors that creates race related hatred. There are many countries in the world where racism simply isn't an issue (like Japan for example).
Interesting, but I don't know if many on the left will even entertain this. Also, Japan is very homogenous.
 

All Hail C-Webb

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How is this sort of hyperbole helpful? This is why politics are so polarized in this country right now. When you say that everyone who voted for Trump is a dumb uneducated racist, how do you continue the conversation?
Is English your first language? Cause I said nothing of the sort.
Not everyone who voted for Trump is a racist.
 

sahlberg

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There are many countries in the world where racism simply isn't an issue (like Japan for example).
You don't travel much do you?

You mean the country Japan where they have daily televised afternoon game shows on pretty much every channel that are built around the concept of
having foreigners humiliate themselves?

I really liked one show in japan where they went to some poor village in either turkey or africa and they told the villagers that the winner would get japaneese citizenship and free money for the rest of their life.
The amount of humiliating things they could get the villagers to do was truly next level.
Once the show ended, the tv team went back home.
Surprise surprise there were no citizenship or money on the table.
 

PonyStation4

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I speak Chinese enough to communicate at an acceptable level... and Chinese are constantly making racist remarks. Such as X race is all lazy, whores, stupid, greedy etc. So I don't think you can even stop racism just in the west, because people will always immigrate over and refuse to change their ways.

Getting rid of already existing racism is difficult as it is, even harder is getting it out of immigrants. The first start is getting rid of different cultures and languages, uniting into one people with some loss of individuality.
 
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JordanN

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You don't travel much do you?

You mean the country Japan where they have daily televised afternoon game shows on pretty much every channel that are built around the concept of
having foreigners humiliate themselves?

I really liked one show in japan where they went to some poor village in either turkey or africa and they told the villagers that the winner would get japaneese citizenship and free money for the rest of their life.
The amount of humiliating things they could get the villagers to do was truly next level.
Once the show ended, the tv team went back home.
Surprise surprise there were no citizenship or money on the table.
Japan's history literally has them enslaving Korea for half a century, followed by mass rapes and mass slaughter of all non-Japanese people, while maintaining shrines that honor war criminals.

But this just goes to show how complex racism is. Why is it today, all the focus on racism comes from America and Europe, even though cultures all over the world were committing genocide against one another but it's now forgotten?
 
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DeepEnigma

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Japan's history literally has them enslaving Korea for half a century, followed by mass rapes and mass slaughter of all non-Japanese people.

But this just goes to show how complex racism is. Why is it today, all the focus on racism comes from America and Europe, even though cultures all over the world were committing genocide against one another but it's now forgotten?
The best way to dismantle a superpower, is to creature turmoil from within (it's own people).
 

DunDunDunpachi

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100 years ago it was socially acceptable to beat your wife. In some parts of the world, she would fetch you the switch.

Racism has made progress. The only confusion is that some people are demanding blood in exchange for past injustices. That is the limit. "Resolving racism" can never go at a pace that requires blood, and I think The Left is going to suffer for disobeying that rule.

EDIT: actually, I would argue that's a pretty good overall rule. A society's rate of progress cannot exceed a pace that needs the blood (restitution, actual death, etc) of its fellow citizens.
 
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yungshinigami

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There are many countries in the world where racism simply isn't an issue (like Japan for example).
Whether you want to label it as xenophobia or racism the treatment and perception of Chinese in Japan is pretty significant. It's not unheard of for restaurant and shop owners to refuse business to Chinese or foreigners in general. It mostly stems from early 20th century hyper-nationalism and the Pacific War/WWII.
 

Ke0

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You'll probably never end it especially America's flavor. That would require a complete gutting of your political parties, and quite a few laws. If you want proof as to why America will never tackle racism, this thread. Already folks are saying "left" this and that without once saying anything about how America's conservative ideology is founded on racism and still uses the irrational fear of minorities as a tool. If you can't even have conversations about those simple truths, how does anyone ever expect America to actually tackle racism in any real capacity?
 
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because that would take work. you have all these people who say idiotic things like "im not here to teach you blah blah blah" its like why not? you want to end racism and would like people to understand your point of view. if you care like you say you do then its something worth while to do.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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You'll probably never end it especially America's flavor. That would require a complete gutting of your political parties, and quite a few laws. If you want proof as to why America will never tackle racism, this thread. Already folks are saying "left" this and that without once saying anything about how America's conservative ideology is founded on racism and still uses the irrational fear of minorities as a tool. If you can't even have conversations about those simple truths, how does anyone ever expect America to actually tackle racism in any real capacity?
Translation: if you're not going to have the conversation about racism in the way we want it, with the outcomes we desire, we will fight you tooth and nail.

That's actually what is occurring. I lived through the 90s. Racism was on the decline (except for our superpredators) and people were more comfortable about race than we'd ever been. When it came to everyone's parents, we're talking about the generation that grew up in the 60s and therefore had the default anti-racist mentality (not everyone of course, but my parents and the parents of every single person I knew).

Yet somehow we've gotten to the point where "It's Okay To Be White" is racist hate-speech.
 
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JordanN

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Translation: if you're not going to have the conversation about racism in the way we want it, with the outcomes we desire, we will fight you tooth and nail.

That's actually what is occurring. I lived through the 90s. Racism was on the decline (except for our superpredators) and people were more comfortable about race than we'd ever been. We're talking about the generation that grew up in the 60s and therefore had the default anti-racist mentality (not everyone of course, but my parents and the parents of every single person I knew).

Yet somehow we've gotten to the point where "It's Okay To Be White" is racist hate-speech.
There is also a lot more anti-white propaganda being made. It's not conservatives who are making this:

 

pramod

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Translation: if you're not going to have the conversation about racism in the way we want it, with the outcomes we desire, we will fight you tooth and nail.

That's actually what is occurring. I lived through the 90s. Racism was on the decline (except for our superpredators) and people were more comfortable about race than we'd ever been. We're talking about the generation that grew up in the 60s and therefore had the default anti-racist mentality (not everyone of course, but my parents and the parents of every single person I knew).

Yet somehow we've gotten to the point where "It's Okay To Be White" is racist hate-speech.
Yeah I think I made a thread before about race issues being much less of a thing back in the 90's. It just seems like now we are just interested in refighting old wars and reopening old wounds, I wonder what happened.
 

McCheese

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I think the truth is we're just tribal animals, we like to group folks into 'us' and 'them' in our heads and then treat them differently based on which group they fall into. This inherent distrust of folks outside of tribe probably helped to keep us alive for thousands of years, so I imagine it'll take just as long for us to grow out of it now that it no longer serves a purpose.

Also the whole taboo about discussing that humans do show some phenotypic and genotypic variation by geographical origin; when we have no problem at all in applying it to all other animals. is odd and doesn't quite sit right with me.

As we don't discuss it, people just make their own assumptions that all black people can run faster etc, instead of realizing that it's a much smaller subset than that. The problem is when any one group or subset is even a tiny bit faster, stronger or smarter on average, you'll see a massive disparity at the extremes of the spectrum which can give the impression that the differences are greater than they actually are. Then if you want to be PC and not say 'well, folks from that specific region are more likely to be fast runners' people seeing those results will just conclude for themselves that 'all black people are fast' because that's the only information they are being given. So it ends up doing more harm than good.

I'm probably explaining this incredibly poorly, it's a tricky subject to even talk about.
 
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matt404au

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You'll probably never end it especially America's flavor. That would require a complete gutting of your political parties, and quite a few laws. If you want proof as to why America will never tackle racism, this thread. Already folks are saying "left" this and that without once saying anything about how America's conservative ideology is founded on racism and still uses the irrational fear of minorities as a tool. If you can't even have conversations about those simple truths, how does anyone ever expect America to actually tackle racism in any real capacity?
The thing is we know about right wing racism and understand its arguments and counter-arguments very well. We have done so well to stamp out that brand of racism over the past few decades, but now we have this new left wing brand that we don’t fully know how to deal with yet. What’s worse is that it markets itself as anti-racism. That’s the reason it draws so much ire: the lies and hypocrisy. The intentions of a white nationalist yelling the n-word in the street are clear. He’s not hiding anything and we know how to deal with him. Marxist professors inventing new definitions of racism to sanction anti-white racism and fundamentally changing truth itself? We don’t know how to deal with that yet.
 

JordanN

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Also the whole taboo about discussing that humans do show some phenotypic and genotypic variation by geographical origin; when we have no problem at all in applying it to all other animals. is odd and doesn't quite sit right with me.

As we don't discuss it, people just make their own assumptions that all black people can run faster etc, instead of realizing that it's a much smaller subset than that. The problem is when any one group or subset is even a tiny bit faster, stronger or smarter on average, you'll see a massive disparity at the extremes of the spectrum which can give the impression that the differences are greater than they actually are. Then if you want to be PC and not say 'well, folks from that specific region are more likely to be fast runners' people seeing those results will just conclude for themselves that 'all black people are fast' because that's the only information they are being given. So it ends up doing more harm than good.

I'm probably explaining this incredibly poorly, it's a tricky subject to even talk about.
I'm reminded of this cartoon that replaces a Husky with a Poodle.



Ordinary people would look at this and laugh. But if someone made a cartoon about races, there would be a shitstorm.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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Men and Women also share 99% same DNA, but there are still vast differences between genders and by consequence, sexism.

It's unfortunate that the topic of race doesn't get its own recognition in science without it being cast as controversial.
I posted a long list of studies that span 100 years, and everything that was true back then still exists today.
When people say we share 99% of DNA it is to marginalize how different we actually are. I believe the human genome has in the order of 300 million lines of code, if put into computer terms. If you change 3 million lines of code in a program, you can end up with some very different pieces of software.
 

matt404au

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When people say we share 99% of DNA it is to marginalize how different we actually are. I believe the human genome has in the order of 300 million lines of code, if put into computer terms. If you change 3 million lines of code in a program, you can end up with some very different pieces of software.
We also share 90% of DNA with cats.
 

bitbydeath

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Religion is a big part of it IMO.
Because it is about controlling minds at a young age.
 

bitbydeath

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I don't buy that. In my congregation, we're taught that we are God's people. No matter our color. We're taught to divest from the world (kinda difficult to explain sometimes).
Aren't both Nazi's and Religion strongly associated with the right?
 

haxan7

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There needs to be anger about the actual consequences for certain people of living in a system that is historically "racist" in a real world way. These are real definable, easy to see things that exist in the world now and I shouldn't need to give examples or explanations.

When everyone is running around on the internet and elsewhere calling each other racists, sexists, homophobes, transphobes because they may have said a certain phrase, sentence, or word at some point in their lives - I can't help but feel it just buries the actual issues deeper and deeper.

How many people were worked up in a frenzy about racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, whatever else there is, before Trump got elected?

Not nearly as many as there are now would be my guess.

Are people living in urban war zones, practically born into the choice between poverty or crime (this is just one example) any better off now because of how many "woke" people are trying to crawl, scratch, and jump over each other to show just how wise and unprejudiced they are? Doesn't seem like it. It seems like the woke and unprejudiced are just doing their damndest to create a new minority who are inferior to themselves.
 
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Gander

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Despite Rodney King, OJ and Neo Nazi's roaming the malls, the 90's were a special time as far as race relations. White kids who knew nothing about black culture suddenly had Dreadlocks and listened to reggae. Blacks kids who pretty much ignored the 80's hair bands they couldn't Identify with were listening to Red Hot Chili Peppers and hangin out in coffee shops. It was a real time of understanding and getting to know one another. The current climate of the economy and politics causes too much tension for that kind of vibe right now. A better economy and a more balance system will aid race relations.
 

Guileless

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I think the truth is we're just tribal animals, we like to group folks into 'us' and 'them' in our heads and then treat them differently based on which group they fall into. This inherent distrust of folks outside of tribe probably helped to keep us alive for thousands of years, so I imagine it'll take just as long for us to grow out of it now that it no longer serves a purpose.
That's it. The root cause of racism is millions of years of selective pressures faced by humans in small groups of hunter-gatherer tribes. A sprawling and incredibly diverse multiethnic democracy is a bizarre historical anomaly that we just accept as normal because it's all we know.
 

Dunki

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The problem is created by making race way more important that it actually is. And this goes again vor both . sides. When little chilfren who try to play a prank on their eacher by shaving their heads so they look alike, get massive hate and backlash for it on social media than there is something terrible wrong with our society. And especially America is obsessed with race.
 

Luffytubby

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I don't think racism in itself is a root cause. I'm more of a believer in than racism is just a different sort of discrimination or dehumanisation. Like other kinds of discriminations it bares the same hallmarks. Strong, generalized dislike of a person due to their being.

We don't just hate people from the other religion/sex/sexual orientation/ethnicity - The tribalism that is built into humanity is at the core of how our societies are built. It's why a small town, hates the town over on the next hill over. It's why sport fans hate other teams. It's why so many people hate whatever else other people got going on, be it that they are vegans, crossfitters or xbox owners.
Besides tribalism being a self defense mechanism from a time when it made sense to be hostile to foreign tribes in hunter gatherer societies, due to food scarcity, aswell as the possibility of fighting or disease, I think our need to stereotype also plays a big role. We stereotype all the time because we are lazy and because we overestimate our own opinion. Our bias put too much on the line towards our own experiences. We think that our experiences is the correct understanding of the world, and other people are simply ignorant to that, and therefore wrong. We don't like to even entertain the idea that we might be wrong- Particularly with subjects we feel strongly about; Like race, religion, abortion, freedom rights, social issues etc.

I'm not a proponent of middle-of-the-road (sometimes called "centerist" ideas) in the sense that the solution is in the middle of two polarizing opinions, but I do think that the only way you can change someones opinion is for the other person themselves to change. Peoples ideas and values cannot be swayed by mere words of other people.
It has to come from within, and the more they are tightened up, angry and feel like they are being oppressed by the other person along with the shame, anger and resentment that comes with that. I think this is why it is so hard to get through to people with facts, logic and statistics. People rationalise the world through an emotional lens, and the truth is that for a lot of people the way they feel about a touchy subjects come down to how they feel about it.

People who say that anyones whose opinions are merely on if they are butthurt by who they are arguing are already incapable of ever changing their views are wrong. More than anything, people will make everything about themselves as they view the world through their own eyes and experiences. This is why that everyone votes selfishly- even if they vote for solidarity and helping others.

The truth of the matter is that people want to be understood and they want to feel loved. We know that in psychology, people who work in professions who are more likely to hear the word "no" in day to day life, are much more likely to be depressed. Because negative words upset us a lot more than we'd like to admit. And that ridicule, shame and resentment we feel from being corrected is what makes a lot of resistant and hostile towards the "others".

Of course there are lots of people who discriminate who will not take change their ways. But i've noticed that with a lot of anti-immigration people, that many live in rural areas without a lot of exposure to people from other cultures. I think this is also what I've seen online of former racists saying that what got them to stop being racist was just meeting and hanging out with people from another ethnicity they disliked, and that that made them realise that their preconceptions were wrong.

So if you attack someone relentlessly instead of giving them the opportunity to challenge their own views, they might double down and become way more entrenched, because it's not about their beliefs anymore, but their tribal attitude and sense of being attacked. I think lots of republicans in America are an example of a group of people who've become so anti-democratic because of their engagement with liberals. If you removed the democratic party tomorrow, the republicans would splinter into a liberal faction as every country and democracy have a liberal and conservative faction. It's observable in nearly every country I can think of with some sort of constitutional democracy.
 

appaws

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Everyone is racist, it is a part of the human condition. We notice differences, and we are more comfortable around people with the most similarities to ourselves. Loyalty to tribe is hardwired into us, and no amount of social engineering will stop it. The way to treat the symptoms of this is to make sure society focuses strongly on individual rights, but minimize trying to enforce right thinking.

I highly recommend you all go research Robert Putnam, the liberal Harvard researcher who investigated race and social capital/cohesion. He lays out the fact that the more diverse a community becomes, the more social cohesion breaks down and the more isolated everybody feels. He hated the findings of his research and considered simply not publishing them....but he is a scholar first and foremost, so he did in his book "Bowling Alone."

It is hard truth, and flies in the face of the touchy-feely programming we all receive starting when we are little kids. Diversity is not a strength. Racism is a social problem that can be mitigated but not eliminated.
 
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Ke0

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Translation: if you're not going to have the conversation about racism in the way we want it, with the outcomes we desire, we will fight you tooth and nail.

That's actually what is occurring. I lived through the 90s. Racism was on the decline (except for our superpredators) and people were more comfortable about race than we'd ever been. We're talking about the generation that grew up in the 60s and therefore had the default anti-racist mentality (not everyone of course, but my parents and the parents of every single person I knew).

Yet somehow we've gotten to the point where "It's Okay To Be White" is racist hate-speech.
Less racism by whose perspective? I think black Americans would have a completely different opinion on that than white Americans. It basically seems like you're saying nothing different than at any other point, basically "back in the 90s it was easier for me to ignore it, now I can't escape the convo"

And no you can't get to the cause of racism without talking about it in earnest which you're clearly against doing, it's not just "The Left™". You're only willing to have the conversation a certain way and anything else you're attacking…which is pretty much how racism has been handled from the start. It hasn't worked.

It seems you clearly just want things to go back to how they used to be, not actually having a conversation about just how much of a part of America racism is and how to genuinely solve it.

If you really want to solve it, gotta face some hard truths that will make you uncomfortable and shatter you're view on how perfect America is.

Anything less is just wanting to continue to ignore things
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Less racism by whose perspective? I think black Americans would have a completely different opinion on that than white Americans. It basically seems like you're saying nothing different than at any other point, basically "back in the 90s it was easier for me to ignore it, now I can't escape the convo"

And no you can't get to the cause of racism without talking about it in earnest which you're clearly against doing, it's not just "The Left™". You're only willing to have the conversation a certain way and anything else you're attacking…which is pretty much how racism has been handled from the start. It hasn't worked.

It seems you clearly just want things to go back to how they used to be, not actually having a conversation about just how much of a part of America racism is and how to genuinely solve it.

If you really want to solve it, gotta face some hard truths that will make you uncomfortable and shatter you're view on how perfect America is.

Anything less is just wanting to continue to ignore things
That's a lot of projection and mischaracterization going on.

In Michigan, we had some of the strongest and largest middle-class minority groups in the nation. The auto-industry employed millions of workers (not just at plants, but at subsidiaries, too) which put a lot of food on the table of minorities through the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. Seems so silly to bring up now, but remember that "the first mainstream white rapper" came from my State. Public and Private schools were thriving. Minority enrollment at our Michigan universities was (and continues to be) high. I think you are the one living in a bubble.

Here is our politcial alignment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_Michigan

Notice how Democrats had the rule of the roost during the 70s, 80s, and 90s? And what happened to my State after 30 years of sustained Democrat governance?

Yeah, "I'm just ignoring it". :pie_roffles:
 

Cybrwzrd

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That's a lot of projection and mischaracterization going on.

In Michigan, we had some of the strongest and largest middle-class minority groups in the nation. The auto-industry employed millions of workers (not just at plants, but at subsidiaries, too) which put a lot of food on the table of minorities through the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. Seems so silly to bring up now, but remember that "the first mainstream white rapper" came from my State. Public and Private schools were thriving. Minority enrollment at our Michigan universities was (and continues to be) high. I think you are the one living in a bubble.

Here is our politcial alignment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_Michigan

Notice how Democrats had the rule of the roost during the 70s, 80s, and 90s? And what happened to my State after 30 years of sustained Democrat governance?

Yeah, "I'm just ignoring it". :pie_roffles:
What happened to your state was due to a globalist shift in trade policy, corrupt identity politicians, and last but not least, stunningly shitty management of the big 3 for decades - on both sides of the table (labor and management). The Japanese, Koreans and Europeans came in with their supply base, started investing in states to the south of Michigan, built better cars and stole the big 3's lunch, beat them to an inch of their lives, and left them crying for daddy to help when the economy fell apart in 2008.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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What happened to your state was due to a globalist shift in trade policy, corrupt identity politicians, and last but not least, stunningly shitty management of the big 3 for decades - on both sides of the table (labor and management). The Japanese, Koreans and Europeans came in with their supply base, started investing in states to the south of Michigan, built better cars and stole the big 3's lunch, beat them to an inch of their lives and left them crying for daddy to help.
Who opened us up to the globe, I wonder? :pie_thinking:

Perhaps people can better understand why there are plenty in America who aren't fond of the Democrat's economic policies. We followed them blindly and look what happened.

I can't account for every racist nor should I. However, we're getting a bit off topic. My reason for bringing it up was because it's pure buffoonery to insist that someone "just doesn't understand" or "you must be ignoring it, then" when they disagree with you.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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Who opened us up to the globe, I wonder? :pie_thinking:

Perhaps people can better understand why there are plenty in America who aren't fond of the Democrat's economic policies. We followed them blindly and look what happened.

I can't account for every racist nor should I. However, we're getting a bit off topic. My reason for bringing it up was because it's pure buffoonery to insist that someone "just doesn't understand" or "you must be ignoring it, then" when they disagree with you.
After much consideration and emotional discussion, the US House of Representatives passed the North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act on November 17, 1993, 234–200. The agreement's supporters included 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats. The bill passed the Senate on November 20, 1993, 61–38.[21] Senate supporters were 34 Republicans and 27 Democrats. Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993; the agreement went into effect on January 1, 1994.[22][23]

A bunch of assholes who hate America and love money.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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After much consideration and emotional discussion, the US House of Representatives passed the North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act on November 17, 1993, 234–200. The agreement's supporters included 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats. The bill passed the Senate on November 20, 1993, 61–38.[21] Senate supporters were 34 Republicans and 27 Democrats. Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993; the agreement went into effect on January 1, 1994.[22][23]

A bunch of assholes who hate America and love money.
If you look at Michigan specifically, we have been a Democrat-majority State for quite a while. Thank you for posting the information.
 

mckmas8808

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I know this will be a controversial take on the subject, but I wonder why throughout history, people have always tried to "stop" racism in very simplistic ways. They would just say "don't be racist", or "racism is bad". But racism is a very complex issue with many causes and roots in many things. It's like telling people who hate pitbulls to just "stop hating pitbulls". Why not try to address why these people hate pitbulls in the first place?

We are living in a world where 99% of people are educated enough to know that humans all share the same physiology and DNA. So why does racism still exist? It certainly isn't just out of ignorance, right? So I don't see how helpful it is to just call racists "dumb" or "ignorant".

Of course there will still be a very small percentage of idiots and losers that hate other races no matter what, but my topic isn't about those people. I'm addressing the much more typical "racist" sentiments and attitudes. IMHO the causes for "hating" a certain race seems to boil down to these factors:

1. The perception that they are somehow detrimental to society (causing violence, crime, taking jobs, etc).
2. The perception that they are unable to integrate into a culture
3. The perception that they are given special treatment

So why don't people want to address what could be causing such perceptions? I think it would be much more helpful than just simply telling people to be "more tolerant" or "less hateful". Because I believe that humans are not inherently racist, but it's societal factors that creates race related hatred. There are many countries in the world where racism simply isn't an issue (like Japan for example).

Shouldn't it be on the racist to get better? It feels like you are blaming the non-racist to do a better job at teaching the racists on how to NOT be racist. I'm I wrong?
 

pramod

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Shouldn't it be on the racist to get better? It feels like you are blaming the non-racist to do a better job at teaching the racists on how to NOT be racist. I'm I wrong?
No I'm just saying racism isn't something that just comes out of thin air. Like people said the 90's were a relatively racially harmonious period, and most of the people alive then are still around now. Did a lot of them just suddenly decide to become racists? No of course not. So why does it seem like there's a lot more racial animosity now?
 

Dude Abides

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Everyone is racist, it is a part of the human condition. We notice differences, and we are more comfortable around people with the most similarities to ourselves. Loyalty to tribe is hardwired into us, and no amount of social engineering will stop it. The way to treat the symptoms of this is to make sure society focuses strongly on individual rights, but minimize trying to enforce right thinking.

I highly recommend you all go research Robert Putnam, the liberal Harvard researcher who investigated race and social capital/cohesion. He lays out the fact that the more diverse a community becomes, the more social cohesion breaks down and the more isolated everybody feels. He hated the findings of his research and considered simply not publishing them....but he is a scholar first and foremost, so he did in his book "Bowling Alone."

It is hard truth, and flies in the face of the touchy-feely programming we all receive starting when we are little kids. Diversity is not a strength. Racism is a social problem that can be mitigated but not eliminated.
You are, unsurprisingly but perhaps unwittingly, distorting Putnam’s position and eliding the nuances of his view. Also this work was done after Bowling Alone, not published in it.

Putnam said:
I do need to step back a minuet and say I think that the - it's not merely a fact that America's becoming more diverse. It's a benefit. America will - all of us will, over the long run, benefit from being a more diverse, more heterogeneous place. Places that are more diverse have higher rates of growth on average and they have better cuisine. And it's just a more interesting place to live.

So in the long run, waves of immigration like we're going through now and that we've gone through in the past and increasing diversity is good for a society. But what we discovered in this research, somewhat to our surprise, was that in the short run the more ethnically diverse the neighborhood you live in, the more you - every - all of us tend to hunker down, to pull in. The more diverse - and when I say all of us, I mean all of us. I mean blacks and whites and Asians and Latinos, all of us. The more diverse the group around us, ethnically, in our neighborhood, the less we trust anybody, including people who look like us. Whites trust whites less. Blacks trust blacks less, in more diverse settings.

....

Prof. PUTNAM: Look, I want to make sure that your listeners understand that I think over the long run, as we get to know one another, and as we begin to see things that we have in common with people who don't look like us, this allergy to diversity tends to diminish and to go away. So this is not something that I think as an argument against immigration. On the contrary, actually, I think in the long run we'll all be better. But I don't think that progressives and integrationists like me do our cause any service by hiding from ourselves the fact that it's not easy.
That's a lot of projection and mischaracterization going on.

In Michigan, we had some of the strongest and largest middle-class minority groups in the nation. The auto-industry employed millions of workers (not just at plants, but at subsidiaries, too) which put a lot of food on the table of minorities through the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. Seems so silly to bring up now, but remember that "the first mainstream white rapper" came from my State. Public and Private schools were thriving. Minority enrollment at our Michigan universities was (and continues to be) high. I think you are the one living in a bubble.

Here is our politcial alignment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_Michigan

Notice how Democrats had the rule of the roost during the 70s, 80s, and 90s? And what happened to my State after 30 years of sustained Democrat governance?

Yeah, "I'm just ignoring it". :pie_roffles:
Yeah, you should probably move to one of those GOP-controlled states known for high standards of living and education, like Mississippi.

Michigan has problems because it put all its economic eggs in one basket.
 
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TheShadowLord

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You could, if you somehow control people through augmentation. I think the Illuminati in Deus Ex wanted to achieve this or something as it got in the way of human progress.