"Can We Take a Joke?" - North American Trailer

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm a bit confused by this? Do mean you think people can't take a joke from this thread? So is the movie's line of argument not refutable at all? Can't we even discuss it without being labelled as outraged? If that's not the point you're making then apologies.
You're right, I'm making too many assumptions.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Sexist, homophobic, racist jokes aren't funny anymore. So sad.
I'm always curious when I hear things like this but what do you think of something like Blazing Saddles? It certainly plays with a lot of things that would be taboo even today.
 
I'm always curious when I hear things like this but what do you think of something like Blazing Saddles? It certainly plays with a lot of things that would be taboo even today.
Blazing Saddles does not makes racist jokes, it jokes about racist people. There is a HUGE difference
 
Sexist, homophobic, racist jokes aren't funny anymore. So sad.
Looking at posts like these, one would think that the routine of these comedians would just be bashing gay/black/female people for two hours straight.

Or maybe, just maybe, this issue is a bit more complicated than that?
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Blazing Saddles does not makes racist jokes, it jokes about racist people. There is a HUGE difference
I get that fully but it still drops the N word left and right, makes rape jokes, and so on. Some of them are pretty straight forward and course, the rape joke for example. Its still considered a classic but it wades right into the morass willingly and makes a damned fine movie about it. Some people don't ever like crossing that line so I'm always interested, The fact I used Blazing Saddles was on purpose, its pretty universally respected and liked or at least considered... inoffensive in this day and age? As if a couple decades has blunted its bite.
 
Looking at posts like these, one would think that the routine of these comedians would just be bashing gay/black/female people for two hours straight.

Or maybe, just maybe, this issue is a bit more complicated than that?
Or maybe it's a sign that we need to stop giving free passes to comedians who simply use sexist, racist, and homophobic jokes as a crutch for their own poor comedy skills?
 
Or maybe it's a sign that we need to stop giving free passes to comedians who simply use sexist, racist, and homophobic jokes as a crutch for their own poor comedy skills?
Out of curiosity, do you believe it's possible to make a joke that could be called sexist/racist/homophobic that is funny and not just a crutch?
 
That's why you go up to them after the show and say something, which people do all the time and is perfectly fine, not in the middle of it. The middle of a bit is not the time to pull out a soapbox and make an impromptu speech about the plight of waitresses and tipping. No one is there for you to decide it's your moment to right the wrongs of whatever is being discussed or start a debate about "x". You want to complain, voice your opinion about whatever, go right ahead and do so, but that doesn't mean you're automatically in the right and more than likely you're detracting from a show someone put a lot of work and effort into making that others are trying to enjoy. More than likely you're a disturbance and you might get ejected.
This whole idea of people having to time correctly when to protest to protect the sanctity of a comedian's show is ridiculous.

If the comedian does not respect someone, at that very nanosecond the comedian lost the right to be respected by this someone. They can interrupt if so desired.

What a terrible analogy. It's a film festival, its Cannes' schtick, people aren't paying money in order to receive the entertainment in return
What.

Maybe there is some subtletly at this argument? Google ain't answering in the first result whether Cannes shows are free.
 
Maybe you should tell an example of one instead of hypotheticals.
Why? Comedy is subjective to each individual and I'd be insane to think that what I find funny would be the same for someone I don't know at all. Instead reaching an understanding of whether something is impossible to be funny based on the subject matter or themes for an individual will give me a better scope of understanding of their perspective.
 
Maybe you should tell an example of one instead of hypotheticals.
You won't get any if past threads are indication. There's a high correlation between those who make statements and those who could care less about stand up comedy.

Why? Comedy is subjective to each individual and I'd be insane to think that what I find funny would be the same for someone I don't know at all. Instead reaching an understanding of whether something is impossible to be funny based on the subject matter or themes for an individual will give me a better scope of understanding of their perspective.
Because they are making the assertion that anyone who complains about this does only because they have sets filled with racists, sexists jokes.

If that's the case, prove it?

That's how you build an argument.

Seinfeld, Mr. Vanilla, has had similar concerns as expressed in this film and he's as clean as can be.
 
For me, why I agree with the premise of this movie is not because I don't think people should just sit down and shut up when they get offended.

I just don't know whatever happened to, "Well fuck you too prick" and then going on about your day.

Instead, I think we see far too much of ... "well your words offended me, you racist, bigot, homophobe, so now I am going to mobilize an army of people who are going to spend every ounce of energy we have to take away your entire livelihood, everything you hold dear, and make sure you are sorry to have ever breathed a molecule of oxygen on this planet."

From what I can tell, the movie is taking a look at the extreme end of that outrage culture and I think this is a good thing.
 
People used to literally riot at ancient greek plays, and Ancient Greece is where theater was born and matured as an art form.

So to make the argument that stand up comedy is in any kind of risk you gotta have a really good argument, instead of some comedians going "abloo abloo people are interrupting my show to say they are offended".

Whatever threat you posit to comedy has to surpass the level of _literal_riots_ for it to be endangering the form. Again, Bill Burr seems to be economically successful here so there's no problem. Offended people get to speak their mind, comedians gain their livelihood. Society works as expected.
 
People used to literally riot at ancient greek plays, and Ancient Greece is literally where theater was born and matured as an art form.

So to make the argument that stand up comedy is in any kind of risk you gotta have a really good argument, instead of some comedians going "abloo abloo people are interrupting my show to say they are offended".

Whatever threat you posit to comedy has to surpass the level of _literal_riots_ for it to be endangering the form. Again, Bill Burr seems to be economically successful here so there's no problem.
Did you watch the trailer?

Dudes (and women) are literally getting attacked on stage.
 
Did you watch the trailer?

Dudes (and women) are literally getting attacked on stage.
Again, I will not defend assaulting the comedians, but then again, people here brought up whether this kind of shit happening in the theater would be acceptable and/or dangerous to the form, and the answer is...it happened in ancient greece. See here.

Do you extend this to people being offended at stage plays or in movie theaters? Anywhere a person is they have a right to disrupt things the moment they become offended?
My argument is not defending riots and/or assaults to comedians, but pointing out that comedy will survive just fine, just like theater bloomed in ancient greece. Assaults should stop. People saying that they are offended should not stop. Ever.
 
You won't get any if past threads are indication. There's a high correlation between those who make statements and those who could care less about stand up comedy.



Because they are making the assertion that anyone who complains about this does only because they have sets filled with racists, sexists jokes.

If that's the case, prove it?

That's how you build an argument.

Seinfeld, Mr. Vanilla, has had similar concerns as expressed in this film and he's as clean as can be.
I think the frustrating thing is that for someone to prove that a comedian isn't 100%(or even mostly) racist/sexist/phobic they need to get the other person to watch a full set which is a time commitment, which many people don't. Like here's a bit on why same race marriage is superior and why hating on specific asian groups is great that I found funny (obviously not everyone will find it funny) but that doesn't mean the whole set is about that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6O92PE551I
 
Blazing Saddles does not makes racist jokes, it jokes about racist people. There is a HUGE difference
I would argue that the joke which inspired #CancelColbert was similarly about racist people and yet it sparked a controversy all the same.

My take is that when you go to a comedy show, especially comedians known for covering controversial topics, you are entering into an agreement of sorts. You agree to the assumption that what the comedian is saying shouldn't be taken at face value and to interpret it in a charitable way (e.g. as a clear joke). Even if it's a bad joke, is delivered poorly, or in some other way falls flat, it should still be taken as a joke. So, from the comedian's perspective, if you get upset at what is clearly a joke, you are breaking that agreement and the whole exercise of going to a comedy show is then futile.

And that's why I think comedian's get so riled up over the issue. Without that assumption by the audience, they literally can't perform their act. It threatens their livelihood.

If a joke is truly in poor taste, the crowd will let the comedian know by not laughing. A good comedian will either axe the joke from his/her routine or adjust it to make it funny. However, if almost the entire crowd is laughing but there is a Twitter controversy after, I think the comedian is in the right to ignore it as manufactured outrage. Because when it's on Twitter, the audience no longer paid to see a comedy show knowing full-well what they were getting into. Twitterers have not entered into an agreement to receive the statement in a charitable light. And stripped of its context, a joke will be much more likely seen as offensive.

So, I do err on the side of the comedian. They should be free to make the jokes they want to make. The crowd will decide if it's a good joke or not. And by "crowd" I mean the ones actually at the show--the people who paid specifically to have their taboos prodded and mocked--not the people on the Internet who never agreed to that sort of thing.
 
I think the frustrating thing is that for someone to prove that a comedian isn't 100%(or even mostly) racist/sexist/phobic they need to get the other person to watch a full set which is a time commitment, which many people don't. Like here's a bit on why same race marriage is superior and why hating on specific asian groups is great that I found funny (obviously not everyone will find it funny) but that doesn't mean the whole set is about that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6O92PE551I
You did your homework. Kudos.

I'm not against comedians getting criticism. I'm against those making baseless statements regarding comedic acts without backing up the claim they brought up.

Comedic audiences are more sophisticated. The days of Def Comedy Jam are over. That's corny now.
 
I think the frustrating thing is that for someone to prove that a comedian isn't 100%(or even mostly) racist/sexist/phobic they need to get the other person to watch a full set which is a time commitment, which many people don't. Like here's a bit on why same race marriage is superior and why hating on specific asian groups is great that I found funny (obviously not everyone will find it funny) but that doesn't mean the whole set is about that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6O92PE551I
I laughed.
 
I would argue that the joke which inspired #CancelColbert was similarly about racist people and yet it sparked a controversy all the same.

My take is that when you go to a comedy show, especially comedians known for covering controversial topics, you are entering into an agreement of sorts. You agree to the assumption that what the comedian is saying shouldn't be taken at face value and to interpret it in a charitable way (e.g. as a clear joke). Even if it's a bad joke, is delivered poorly, or in some other way falls flat, it should still be taken as a joke. So, from the comedian's perspective, if you get upset at what is clearly a joke, you are breaking that agreement and the whole exercise of going to a comedy show is then futile.

And that's why I think comedian's get so riled up over the issue. Without that assumption by the audience, they literally can't perform their act. It threatens their livelihood.

If a joke is truly in poor taste, the crowd will let the comedian know by not laughing. A good comedian will either axe the joke from his/her routine or adjust it to make it funny. However, if almost the entire crowd is laughing but there is a Twitter controversy after, I think the comedian is in the right to ignore it as manufactured outrage. Because when it's on Twitter, the audience no longer paid to see a comedy show knowing full-well what they were getting into. Twitterers have not entered into an agreement to receive the statement in a charitable light. And stripped of its context, a joke will be much more likely seen as offensive.

So, I do err on the side of the comedian. They should be free to make the jokes they want to make. The crowd will decide if it's a good joke or not. And by "crowd" I mean the ones actually at the show--the people who paid specifically to have their taboos prodded and mocked--not the people on the Internet who never agreed to that sort of thing.
This is a post filled with good intentions, cannot really point out anything that is not charitable, but...

...that's how the world worked before the internet, or even before minorities discovered they did not have to be someone's else laughing stock.

Comedy until the 80s or even the 90s felt free to make fun of the gays. The gay community many times did not have many mainstream outlets to complain (you know, no twitter, and thus none of that evil "twitter outrage"), and had to "be polite" and maybe, dunno, talk to the comedian after the show as some naive gaffer upthread proposed, or just not attend the show.

Guess what. Comedians did not care, neither emotionally or economically. The gays were just another profitable angle to exploit. Of course, no self respecting comedian will base their set in a single schtick, but dunno why gaf suddenly decided that if a set is not 100% offensive, it should not be considered offensive? The free market failed the gays, simply not going to the comedians shows simply does not work.

So what you are proposing is going back to the "good old days" when minorities were polite and respectful and knew their place.
 
I am pretty sure you can joke about anything if you do it in the right way. I think what the issue is is where can comedians even practive material these days without someone filming and posting it on youtube for all the world to see? When you are pushing the limit you need a place to see what does and doesn't work no? They gotta try and try material to get a good act together. I sometimes wonder if people understand that comedians can tell when shit goes flat and they need to adjust.
 
I am pretty sure you can joke about anything if you do it in the right way. I think what the issue is is where can comedians even practive material these days without someone filming and posting it on youtube for all the world to see? When you are pushing the limit you need a place to see what does and doesn't work no? They gotta try and try material to get a good act together. I sometimes wonder if people understand that comedians can tell when shit goes flat and they need to adjust.
The problem is that people don't even think they should adjust. To many, stand-up comedy is unquestionably sacred and above any and all critique.

Why would you take advice from unfunny people?
Why should I take someone who doesn't even know when their jokes don't work seriously?
 
The problem is that people don't even think they should adjust. To many, stand-up comedy is unquestionably sacred and above any and all critique.
Why would you take advice from unfunny people?

Comedians do get feedback. Mostly from putting in that work and from other comedians, who are brutal.

Cheap jokes don't make a career.
 
Comedy is by far and away the best way to counter this safe space, groupthink, thought police, pseudo fascist nonsense out there today. You don't want to fight it by resorting to the increasingly physically violent tactics we are seeing when people decided it's time to be offended again.

Confronting it this way is infinitely preferable, I would think more effective too but I suppose i could be wrong. Depends on how violent people are willing to get and how widespread it becomes.
 
The problem is that people don't even think they should adjust.
If you were never a potential fan, but you're "critiquing" them (which usually means a drive by tweet appended to a hashtag), then yes, they can safely ignore that. It's a valid artistic and professional action to just ignore "outrage" and decide that your audience is the people who aren't outraged.
 
Again, I will not defend assaulting the comedians, but then again, people here brought up whether this kind of shit happening in the theater would be acceptable and/or dangerous to the form, and the answer is...it happened in ancient greece. See here.
they fucked kids in ancient greece too, should we bring that back?
 
Why would you take advice from unfunny people?

Comedians do get feedback. Mostly from putting in that work and from other comedians, who are brutal.

Cheap jokes don't make a career.
Eddie Murphy got pretty far on his gay comedy schtick.

So much for feedback, cheap jokes and taking advice from unfunny people.

Is that what you want?

they fucked kids in ancient greece too, should we bring that back?
No. I am sorry you can't make an argument, but I will still answer you so you don't feel alone :3
 
No. I am sorry you can't make an argument, but I will still answer you so you don't feel alone :3
There is no argument to make. If you don't like a comedian's show, leave quietly. If you shout something out you deserve to get destroyed verbally and mocked endlessly until you either shut up or leave.
 
Eddie Murphy got pretty far on his gay comedy schtick.

So much for feedback, cheap jokes and taking advice from unfunny people.

Is that what you want?



No. I am sorry you can't make an argument, but I will still answer you so you don't feel alone :3
The type of jokes Eddie Murphy said regarding gays fell out of favor way before the internet became mainstream, which was your point. The internet "policing" comedy didn't end gay jokes.

Comedy is not in a vacuum. It also reflects culture.

After a while, comedic audiences found out that gay jokes were lame and comedians stopped telling them. Same reason why the "white people drive like this/black people drive like this" Def Comedy Jam fare doesn't get as much laughs today.

It's old and played out.
 
This whole idea of people having to time correctly when to protest to protect the sanctity of a comedian's show is ridiculous.
Well since your very fond of citing the Greeks right now, here's a saying by a Greek individual

Pittacus of Mytilene said:
"Know thy opportunity"
Yes there is a correct time to protest, the middle of the show isn't it.
 
Well since your very fond of citing the Greeks right now, here's a saying by a Greek individual

Yes there is a correct time to protest, the middle of the show isn't it.
The very best opportunity to protest is the exact moment the insult is hurled. Not after, and certainly not in imaginary post-show heart to heart private sessions that comedians may theoretically hold.

So by your standard, the very best opportunity is to do it in the middle of the show, then tape it, then share it on twitter and make it viral.

Gotta know thy opportunity.

The type of jokes Eddie Murphy said regarding gays fell out of favor way before the internet became mainstream, which was your point. The internet "policing" comedy didn't end gay jokes.

Comedy is not in a vacuum. It also reflects culture.

After a while, comedic audiences found out that gay jokes were lame and comedians stopped telling them. Same reason why the "white people drive like this/black people drive like this" Def Comedy Jam fare doesn't get as much laughs today.

It's old and played out.
Well what you said that regulated jokes was

Why would you take advice from unfunny people?

Comedians do get feedback. Mostly from putting in that work and from other comedians, who are brutal.

Cheap jokes don't make a career.
Feedback and career development. Not culture. It's not cool that it took literally decades (centuries?) for it to fall out of favor because "culture" changed. The internet just accelerated the rate of change of culture. Also gave more voices to more kinds of people, so even if you don't make jokes about gays, you will still hit small pockets of people. Those people have the right to voice their displeasure.

It's good that those random groups of people decided they wouldn't take abuse like gays had to endure from the likes of Eddie Murphy. The very idea that people should just "take the joke" and endure the abuse is disgusting.

Certainly your standards of what _should_ regulate a comedian's jokes failed completely, absolutely. It is an embarrassment. What you are proposing DOES NOT WORK. So let's try something new.
 
The problem is that people don't even think they should adjust. To many, stand-up comedy is unquestionably sacred and above any and all critique.
I dunno, I think that isn't really what I am talking about. People who think comedy is sacred are a small minority whose opinion doesn't influence anything. But if a joke falls flat I don't think it should be all pitch forks and outrage. The response of the crowd will tell whether they found it funny. But everyone is guilty of telling an unfunny joke and getting stares. You use it to get better and figure out what works and what doesn't. But these days with social media and things like twitter I dont even think there is the ability to self edit. For quality comedy I think there should be able to be misteps.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I'm seeing the exact same defenses that people I know make when they get called out on comments like "Why would anyone have a black baby?".
Also, Gilbert is too good for this.

Y'all gotta stop summoning Gamergate in situations that have fuck all to do with it. Ain't nobody talking about those manbabies nor that whole period in general. There isn't even any talk in the vid about gaming at all.
I wish I lived in this alternate reality where they stuck to games exclusively. And some of these comedians are manbabies.
 
Sexist, homophobic, racist jokes aren't funny anymore. So sad.
Really? I made a joke to a female service station attendant about my new car (2007 focus hatch) coming with a pack of tampons and she found it hilarious.

The truth is you hipster princesses do get outraged at fucking nothing. You cant go 5 minutes without trying to find something to be outraged about.
 
I've only ever heard somebody say "can't you take a joke?" in order to justify attempts at humor that were unfunny and usually mean-spirited. Seems appropriate.
 
Really? I made a joke to a female service station attendant about my new car (2007 focus hatch) coming with a pack of tampons and she found it hilarious.

The truth is you hipster princesses do get outraged at fucking nothing. You cant go 5 minutes without trying to find something to be outraged about.
Yikes.
 
If stand-up comedy couldn't use stereotypes and expectations stand-up comedy would probably cease to exist I think

i'm ok with that tho /shrug
 
Status
Not open for further replies.