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Capcom has burned any good will they ever had away

Max Knight

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Aug 24, 2011
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Developers don't just finish a game and have it shipped to the store next day to be sold. When we have on disc DLC that means the content was finished when the disc went gold.
So you're arguing that it would have been better if Capcom had waited to develop the content until after the game shipped, despite the fact that it was likely planned, budgeted, and developed to be sold separately regardless of delivery method?

The way I see it, Capcom took the most convenient and inexpensive path of development and delivery for the additional content, which simultaneously provided the most convenient way for consumers to obtain it. It seems kind of like a win-win, considering the circumstances.

You can argue that the DLC should have been made after the disc shipped (and I won't necessarily disagree with you), but it really doesn't make sense for Capcom from an organizational standpoint to do it that way, and it's probably not ever going to happen that way whether the content is on the disc or not.

That said, the only change likely to occur as a result of the mass outcry over SFxT's locked content is that Capcom will simply make everyone download additional content from now on. They won't change their development cycle at all--they'll just hide it better and make it more inconvenient for people to obtain the content than it would have been otherwise.

I'm not saying paywall-locked content on the disc isn't shitty; I'm just saying it's not any shittier than day-one DLC, or a lot of DLC for games in general. If anything, locked content on the disc is better, because you don't actually have to download it.

But I feel like I'm not going to convince you, so carry on with feeling like my opinion is terrible. I just felt like expounding.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
Jul 5, 2011
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585
That is true. They could also not put it on the disc and keep it on their computers until later. Is favoring one of those options more terrible than the other? I guess I'm just curious what your argument against the previous post was other than it being terrible for some reason.
From a leak, we know they finished all content 3 months before SFxT's official release date; then we know from interviews that Sony "purchased" those characters, locking them off from the console versions and holding them hostage on the Vita for 9 months (until they did it faster).

So they cut fully completed content. It's essentially false DLC. Not only is this very unethical, but they also just so happened to lock off some of the biggest fan favorites on both the Street Fighter and Tekken side to entice people to drop $20 (!) an absurd price that is naught but a full cash in on the hardcore.

SFxT defined Capcom as a real scumbag company from then on out. A game that was fully exploitative on all the evil practices that DLC comes with today.

EDIT: I don't want to hear any other fighting games used as an excuse. "BUT THIS GAME DID THE SAME THING" doesn't make it any better!
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Feb 9, 2009
37,952
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That is true. They could also not put it on the disc and keep it on their computers until later. Is favoring one of those options more terrible than the other? I guess I'm just curious what your argument against the previous post was other than it being terrible for some reason.
Having the DLC on the disc is a dick way of saying "Yeah this should have been available with the rest of the game that you already paid for, fuck you. Pay us for the license to unlock stuff already in the disc you paid for".
 
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Crapcom is aiming to become the new Square Enix.
Hey now, at least Square has the western dev thing figured out. Deus Ex:HR, Tomb Raider, Sleeping Dogs are pretty good.

After the Resi 6 debacle the only Capcom game I'll be buying in the near future will be from a bargain bin or a Steam sale.
 

Max Knight

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Aug 24, 2011
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From a leak, we know they finished all content 3 months before SFxT's official release date; then we know from interviews that Sony "purchased" those characters, locking them off from the console versions and holding them hostage on the Vita for 9 months (until they did it faster).

So they cut fully completed content. It's essentially false DLC. Not only is this very unethical, but they also just so happened to lock off some of the biggest fan favorites on both the Street Fighter and Tekken side to entice people to drop $20 (!) an absurd price that is naught but a full cash in on the hardcore.

SFxT defined Capcom as a real scumbag company from then on out. A game that was fully exploitative on all the evil practices that DLC comes with today.

EDIT: I don't want to hear any other fighting games used as an excuse. "BUT THIS GAME DID THE SAME THING" doesn't make it any better!
Having the DLC on the disc is a dick way of saying "Yeah this should have been available with the rest of the game that you already paid for, fuck you. Pay us for the license to unlock stuff already in the disc you paid for".
This is all operating under the assumption that they were ever planning on including these characters in the base game, which probably isn't the case.

Just one look at the Skullgirls situation tells you that adding characters to fighting games isn't exactly cheap. Ono always wants to put more dudes in his games, but money is a factor. More dudes needs more money. Capcom was probably unwilling to supply extra dude-money without the possibility of more revenue coming from said dudes. Thus, we have DLC. When it was actually developed is irrelevant--it was never going to be free either way.

Would it have been better if they had an $80 sku at launch that included the additional characters, and then a separate $60 one that didn't? Something tells me that no solution would be acceptable to the naysayers besides having those additional characters for free, which was never going to happen from the start.
 

2n2

Member
Jun 9, 2004
13,133
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Having the DLC on the disc is a dick way of saying "Yeah this should have been available with the rest of the game that you already paid for, fuck you. Pay us for the license to unlock stuff already in the disc you paid for".
The same could be said for the scenario of them hiding the fact that it was complete, yet keeping it unannounced and secret on their server until later to give the illusion it wasn't. Both can be seen as equally bad depending on your perspective. If you prefer the illusion, the latter isn't as offensive I guess.
 

Max Knight

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Aug 24, 2011
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The same could be said for the scenario of them hiding the fact that it was complete, yet keeping it unannounced and secret on their server until later to give the illusion it wasn't. Both can be seen as equally bad depending on your perspective. If you prefer the illusion, the latter isn't as offensive I guess.
This is exactly what I mean. Having the content locked on the disc is pretty much the best solution for consumers, given the circumstance that Capcom is going to have it done pre-launch either way.
 

gioGAF

Member
Jun 14, 2011
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So wait, as someone who doesn't have either version but wants to play one, is the rift crap in dark arisen bad enough that I should go with the original?
You should still go with Dark Arisen. All the vanilla DD content is the same, the Rift Crystal junk and trading ban only applies to items from a specific area (Bitterblack Island). It ends up being a nuisance for completionists, but it does not detract from the experience for the average player.
 

Videoneon

Member
Apr 28, 2012
3,484
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Who knows
They just continue to get worse and worse. The decision to call them a scum company is basically academic at this point because they do a ton of shit. Anything I find likeable about them seems like they don't want to take seriously.
 

2n2

Member
Jun 9, 2004
13,133
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From a leak, we know they finished all content 3 months before SFxT's official release date; then we know from interviews that Sony "purchased" those characters, locking them off from the console versions and holding them hostage on the Vita for 9 months (until they did it faster).
What's the source? I had not heard any specifics leaked.
 

FlyFaster

Member
Jan 30, 2013
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damn OP got a chip\

They make Street Fighter and Monster Hunter. Capcom is OK in my book.


The Mega Man thing sucks but I don't really care that much. BoF sucks as well but I can live.
 

KojiKnight

Member
May 24, 2012
20,249
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The OP reads like an abused and battered wife... I say welcome to the club, though I got out of the capcom train much earlier... haven't bought a single product since, too bad I will temporarily end my boycott to get the new ace attorney game. I do have to reward them for their good efforts afterall... but this latest BoF news and the fact that Mega Man's 25th anniversary is already almost over without even an announcement for a new game... yeah... going to be a long time again before they get any more of my money.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
Ultimate SF4 coming with all previous DLC on disc and new characters

MH4 coming to a portable platform with online play finally

Capcom is alright with me right now personally. I don't give a shit about most of that stuff in the OP. Only misstep for me this gen was DmC but hey some people enjoyed that so more power to them.

The OP reads like an abused and battered wife... I say welcome to the club, though I got out of the capcom train much earlier... haven't bought a single product since, too bad I will temporarily end my boycott to get the new ace attorney game. I do have to reward them for their good efforts afterall... but this latest BoF news and the fact that Mega Man's 25th anniversary is already almost over without even an announcement for a new game... yeah... going to be a long time again before they get any more of my money.
You're showing them!

I refuse to buy any of your products except the ones I want to buy!
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Aug 23, 2005
24,587
0
1,260
You're showing them!

I refuse to buy any of your products except the ones I want to buy!
A corporation can see where revenue streams are coming from. I think it generally sends a message if you support a particular brand over another, even if the money is going into the same company.
 

sublimit

Member
Aug 28, 2009
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OP you also forgot to mention that they didn't even make one Onimusha game this gen except from that stupid browser game.They also turned RE into a joke.

Really the only good games that came out from Capcom in recent years were DMC4,MHTri and Dragon's Dogma.And the only thing i look forward from them in the future is Dragon's Dogma 2.And this comes from someone who used to be a big Capcom fan in the PS and PS2 days.
 

eXistor

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Feb 22, 2006
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Hell's Ditch
I was actually defending Capcom this generation, they gave me two of my most beloved new franchises this gen: Dead Rising and Dragon's Dogma. As of now Deep Down is looking a lot less interesting and mothereffing BoF6, the next numbered sequel in a great series, is gonna be released on a platform that is 100% different from the previous ones, with touch controls and online play. Everything the fans of ther original series doesn not want.

No, I'm done with Capcom, I don't trust them anymore. I even had hopes for Mega Man making a glorious return after Nintendo handled him so expertly in the new Smash Bros. I'm pretty sure if they're gonna do it, they'll fuck it up completely like everything they touch nowadays.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
A corporation can see where revenue streams are coming from. I think it generally sends a message if you support a particular brand over another, even if the money is going into the same company.
That's not a boycott though.

That's basic consumerism.
 

Superflat

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Feb 23, 2013
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There aren't many giant publishing development studios that produce as many games as Capcom. A lot of em are going to fumble. I'm actually pretty happy with a lot of their franchises (Street Fighter, Devil May Cry, Dragon's Dogma, Monster Hunter and Ace Attorney).
 

Starphoenix

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Jun 5, 2011
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I'll always love Capcom for not putting up a fight when Sakurai came knocking for Megaman in Super Smash Bros. that's the best thing they did this entire generation.
 

KojiKnight

Member
May 24, 2012
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You're showing them!

I refuse to buy any of your products except the ones I want to buy!
Boycotts don't mean shit if you never plan on buying anything of their's ever again... There are a lot of capcom games I'm interested in that I won't get. Ace Attorney is one of the titles Capcom has gone on record for NOT bringing over very often... If I didn't support that effort when it is something like this, Capcom would just assume that they were right in deciding that such games shouldn't be ported.

You support the publishers when they do things right, you become an outspoken critic when they do dumb shit and not buy the majority of products.

Also... These are after all just games... if you take anything too serious in relation to them you might have other issues you need worked out first.
 

Videoneon

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Apr 28, 2012
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Who knows
Also... These are after all just games... if you take anything too serious in relation to them you might have other issues you need worked out first.
That's clearly just not true anymore, if it ever was. Gaming is truly a business. If you get pissed with a food company's business practices, a hedge fund, etc. etc. you're inclined to raise complaints, why not here?
 
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All that's left is Street Fighter V by Media Molecule at 30fps to give the death blow. Don't even say it isn't possible. We know it is.
 

KojiKnight

Member
May 24, 2012
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That's clearly just not true anymore, if it ever was. Gaming is truly a business. If you get pissed with a food company's business practices, a hedge fund, etc. etc. you're inclined to raise complaints, why not here?
A first to read the last sentence but to ignore the first, I applaud that.

My point wasn't meant to be taken in the broader sense of everyone, but the individual who rebuked me for "selective boycotting". I haven't bought a capcom product (though I've been tempted on numerous occasions) since the cancelation of MML3... every time I thought about it (MH3 on Wii U for example) I'd remind myself how much I felt screwed over by them so I wouldn't.

I'm willing, however, to pay money to Capcom for the first time in 3 years since they are showing that they are willing to put effort into bringing the next Ace Attorney game over. Thereby rewarding what I'd personally consider a good move on their part. That doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to go back and buy everything else however, because their moves with BoF6 further prove that Capcom hasn't really changed at all.
 

akira28

Member
Aug 31, 2010
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It's days like today when I ask myself why I even bother with this hobby anymore. Everything I ever loved about it has been dying for the last decade because of these imbeciles.
Death by 30 is a mercy. Otherwise you live long enough to see everything you love....die.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
A first to read the last sentence but to ignore the first, I applaud that.

My point wasn't meant to be taken in the broader sense of everyone, but the individual who rebuked me for "selective boycotting". I haven't bought a capcom product (though I've been tempted on numerous occasions) since the cancelation of MML3... every time I thought about it (MH3 on Wii U for example) I'd remind myself how much I felt screwed over by them so I wouldn't.

I'm willing, however, to pay money to Capcom for the first time in 3 years since they are showing that they are willing to put effort into bringing the next Ace Attorney game over. Thereby rewarding what I'd personally consider a good move on their part. That doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to go back and buy everything else however, because their moves with BoF6 further prove that Capcom hasn't really changed at all.
I see.

Well I respect you actually sticking to your guns at least. It's just rare when I see people actually practice consumer activism correctly on here.

I called out the wrong person. My initial statement was misdirected
Also... These are after all just games... if you take anything too serious in relation to them you might have other issues you need worked out first.
I do think that's a weird card to play all things considered though...

but the majority of what you're saying is consistent and makes sense. Even if I personally don't agree with it.(I just buy what I want and don't buy what I don't want. How a company handles IP isn't something I take personally.)
 

Videoneon

Member
Apr 28, 2012
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Who knows
A first to read the last sentence but to ignore the first, I applaud that.

My point wasn't meant to be taken in the broader sense of everyone, but the individual who rebuked me for "selective boycotting". I haven't bought a capcom product (though I've been tempted on numerous occasions) since the cancelation of MML3... every time I thought about it (MH3 on Wii U for example) I'd remind myself how much I felt screwed over by them so I wouldn't.

I'm willing, however, to pay money to Capcom for the first time in 3 years since they are showing that they are willing to put effort into bringing the next Ace Attorney game over. Thereby rewarding what I'd personally consider a good move on their part. That doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to go back and buy everything else however, because their moves with BoF6 further prove that Capcom hasn't really changed at all.
What? No. There's a reason I selected only that one sentence. I understand the context. I am specifically interested in curtailing that sort of mentality that I quoted.

I don't buy "taking things too seriously" in this sphere. People are debating the finer distinctions of boycotts, this is already serious. We have people who bring up feminist issues and such. It doesn't all of a sudden become trivial because it's a hobby.

Though if that's not what you're getting at fine, but your posts didn't suggest that.
 

AnkiRendan

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Jan 21, 2010
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This is all operating under the assumption that they were ever planning on including these characters in the base game, which probably isn't the case.

Just one look at the Skullgirls situation tells you that adding characters to fighting games isn't exactly cheap. Ono always wants to put more dudes in his games, but money is a factor. More dudes needs more money. Capcom was probably unwilling to supply extra dude-money without the possibility of more revenue coming from said dudes. Thus, we have DLC. When it was actually developed is irrelevant--it was never going to be free either way.

Would it have been better if they had an $80 sku at launch that included the additional characters, and then a separate $60 one that didn't? Something tells me that no solution would be acceptable to the naysayers besides having those additional characters for free, which was never going to happen from the start.
ESRB doesn't rate DLC. When the rating came out for SFxT, Lei and Alisa were described, which lupinko leaked to us. Also considering that it was incredibly easy for hackers to access the characters makes me believe that the missing 12 were not originally meant to be DLC at all.
 

Rivyn

Member
Aug 17, 2011
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Netherlands, Amsterdam
The only thing they did absolutely right this generation was Dragon's Dogma. Lost Planet and Dead Rising were fun, but the sequels just failed and do not even get me started about Resident Evil.
 

CountBlack

Member
Sep 29, 2011
19,197
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If a 4th iteration of a 2009 game makes you happy then I'm sure other anti-consumer practices make you happy as well. I recommend checking out on-disk dlc featuring Street Fighter X Tekken and many other Capcom titles.
I asked for a new iteration of the game, and I got it.

I'm happy.
 

"D"

I'm extremely insecure with how much f2p mobile games are encroaching on Nintendo
May 21, 2012
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I'm a big fan of Capcom too, but I'll admit they have been effing up for quite some time. I'll try to list what I can remember that they received flak for in defense of the OP

- Lost Planet 2 didn't do so well....LP3 being developed by someone else other than Capcom and from what I've seen theres like NO promotion for the game at all

- Resident Evil 6 bombed pretty damn hard (I own it and it hurts my feelings how different it is from the series. its like a shooter with resident evil characters)

- Despite MvC3 being missing for about 10 years, it makes it return and wasn't that huge of a splash sales wise....Ultimate did even worse. This game was released less than a year after the original and the only major changes were new characters,.......for $40 effing bucks. (Own this too and once again feelings hurt. My entire team is missing from the roster? Where ARE you Jin/Silver Samurai/Cyclops/Gambit?!?)

- DmC becomes bastardized and outsourced to another company...despite decent sales the majority populace was pretty upset with the new direction and company (Actually enjoyed the game...Vergil's DLC could have been better)

- Street Figher X Tekken. Ummm...yeah. (Bought it, played it a few times...sits in my shelf)

- Street Fighter 4 has like...3 different games and ANOTHER on the way in the form of Ultra. Guess the good thing is you can stick with your original copy and get the DLC or opt for the full on disc versions of each...not bad to have choices but sheesh focus this effort elsewhere

- On disc DLC for some, maybe all (im not sure) of the games I mention in this post

- Bionic Commando...... havent played this but have gotten mixed opinions on it, mostly negative)

- Megaman being completely shat on since Keiji Inafune left Capcom. Like seriously. This guy was the FACE of Capcom...now this? Cancelled games left and right and a fat ass rendition on SFxT??? They should be send to the gulags. But thanks Sakurai! There's hope!

- Strider returns....but is being made by Double Helix..*sigh*....(game actually look okay, we'll just have to see.......................................)

- BoF and Onimusha returns as paltry handhelds (THIS shit takes the cake, I had been ranting to my friends that we needed BOTH of these IPs to return....but not like this. God....not like this.....)

- Despite Asura's Wrath looking nice, its a glorified anime movie with gameplay sprinkled in between

............and still no sign of Rival Schools/Project Justice, Power Stone, Dino Crisis, MEGAMAN, Capcom vs SNK, Viewtiful Joe, Okami, REAL games of Onimusha and BoF, and whatever else im missing. I'm not boycotting Capcom or anything that extreme because they did bring some memorable titles to the table, but goddamn am I disappointed as shit with them right now......my 28 year old heart can take the stress they dishing out especially since they are one of my PERSONAL favorite 3rd party companies...next to O.G SquareSOFT, Namco, and Konami
 

Toxi

Banned
May 29, 2013
41,542
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The worst thing they did by far was Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor. Shit just didn't work.

Although technically it's From Software's fault.

and if they dont they get shitted on like bioshock has
Bioshock was shitted on because they made season passes.

Season passes suck.
 

Augemitbutter

Member
Feb 3, 2008
17,069
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0
they can soften the fall by fully supporting Dragon's Dogma and the Ace attorney games.

give them the budget to deliver greatness. Deep Down lookled promising. for AA, just release AAI2 already on a cart in the west and put it on 3DS. people will buy it, no excuses.

i lost all my hype for SFIV long ago. it's not a game that could hold my attention as other fighting games like KOF. Darkstalkers is getting nowhere and Marvel is meh.

releasing D&D Mystara was a good move. keep that up.
 

SargerusBR

I love Pokken!
Jan 23, 2013
18,400
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Capcom may yet redeem itself by outsourcing Devil May Cry to Platinum Games and rebooting Resident Evil
 

Fornaximus

Member
Jun 9, 2013
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This whole Breath of Fire thing really cements my decision to not get too attached to IPs after BioWare broke my heart with the 4th Mass Effect novel and Mass Effect 3. Sometimes it's really not better to have loved and lost.

But yeah, Capcom does suck.