Capcom: Resident Evil needs to be more actiony, survival horror = sales less than CoD

Apr 10, 2007
21,073
0
0
Baltimore
twitter.com
Survival Horror via Wiki said:
Survival horror is a subgenre of action-adventure video games inspired by horror fiction. These games mostly involve making the player vulnerable by providing them with less ammunition and fewer heavy weapons than other action games. Although combat can be a part of the gameplay, the player is in various ways made to feel less powerful than in typical action games, because of limited ammunition, health, speed, or other limitations.The player is also challenged to find items that unlock the path to new areas, and solve puzzles at certain locations. Games make use of strong horror themes, and the player is often challenged to navigate dark maze-like environments, and react to unexpected attacks from enemies.
I suppose that's what I think of most when I think of the genre. Just that feeling of hopelessness and the fear of the unknown. That certainly wasn't present in RE5 or Dead Space imo.
 
Dec 15, 2008
7,420
0
0
As a fan of the series since the beginning, you know, I'm fine with the improved gameplay and action. The series has almost always had action, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they seem to think that more action cannot coincide with excellent horror atmosphere. It can. It seems like they think that it's either action or horror. Why not have excellent action sequences and tighter gameplay, but mix it with creepy settings and horror-driven setpieces?

I don't think that many fans want the series to revert back to its slow, plodding and outdated gameplay, we just want that atmosphere back and I don't think that it's something that has to be excised in order to have more action and better gameplay.
Right from my brain, man.
 
Jun 12, 2008
36,000
0
0
Brooklyn, NY
twitter.com
Dear Capcom (and to a lesser extent, Japan going forward),

Please please please don't think that you need to ape, duplicate, or recreate the big things we do over here in order for your games to be appreciated or sell. We already have those Western style games. What we want is confidence in Eastern style games not going the way of the dodo for the ant's dick small potential of a small flash bang success while your talent gets large scale focus group'd into a development mantra of "Western or not Western enough". Please provide franchises with philosophies that are unique to yourselves and thoroughly designed in a manner only you all can do it in. Do that and cut your teeth on some high level programming and you'll be set.

Signed,

AzureJericho
 
Jul 24, 2007
20,433
0
0
Toronto
Ahahaha, if I were sober I'd take the time to go back to the old threads and dig up every last defense force quote which was trying desperately to spin it like Capcom wasn't chasing Call of Duty.

Now Capcom said it themselves.

What's the defense force going to say now?
If you purposely went out of your way to piss on CAPCOM fans like that I'd be forced to call you an asshole. There's really no point to what you're saying.
 
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
0
0
Capcom couldn't make Call of Duty if they wanted to (not that they should). It's not their strength.

This is so disappointing, not because they're wrong, but because that mindset is not going to bring more sales either.

Resident Evil 5 was already an unsuccessful attempt to remake Gears of War. How did those sales compare?
 
Jan 18, 2006
70,949
2
0
30
What Capcom doesn't get is that people only buy their games because they want something different from the usual Western gaming offering. If I wanted to play God of War, I would play God of War not DMC and vice versa. If I wanted to play Skyrim, I would play that instead of Dragon's Dogma. And if I wanted to play COD... I would play COD and not RE.

You can't get 10 million sales by making knock offs. It's why it's so disappointing that Capcom is distilling their franchises (DMC and RE in particular). These games were amazing because they did their own thing and didn't attempt to conform to what was the hot thing on the market.

Capcom going into the next generation is going to be a sad sight. I can't imagine their mindset once they realize how badly games like DD and DmC are going to perform although I do personally wish for DD's success as it is something bold that Capcom has at least tried to do in this generation (although at too high of a cost I am afraid).
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Nov 26, 2008
13,783
4
800
Sure, if you ignore a lot of what made RE4 good.
What made RE4 good then? It wasn't survival horror. Suplexes maybe? No, really.. other than the atmosphere of the village/castle it's essentially RE5 minus the co-op. Forget the entire drawn-out island section of running forward and fighting endless waves?
 
Nov 10, 2010
5,835
0
0
Which RE title has sold the most?

And I don't think they're wrong in that action games have more potential buyers than horror games.
 
Feb 17, 2009
12,544
0
0
If you purposely went out of your way to piss on CAPCOM fans like that I'd be forced to call you an asshole. There's really no point to what you're saying.
I was pissing on what Capcom was doing to Resident Evil and people were obstinately insisting across multiple threads, even after the Operation Raccoon City admission, that Capcom was not in fact destroying a classic survival horror franchise in a misguided quest for the Call of Duty demographic.
 
May 22, 2010
27,728
0
645
37
Question: Can this producer really be a representation of Capcom as a whole and the direction of the entire Resident Evil franchise? Because that's what people are doing in this thread right? I don't think he's working on RE6.

I'm not saying RE6 is going to return to the survival horror roots, or that it's going to be good, but seems a bit unfair for the other team if people were to judge it based on what this guy thinks.
 
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
0
0
You can't get 10 million sales by making knock offs. It's why it's so disappointing that Capcom is distilling their franchises (DMC and RE in particular). These games were amazing because they did their own thing and didn't attempt to conform to what was the hot thing on the market.

Capcom going into the next generation is going to be a sad sight. I can't imagine their mindset once they realize how badly games like DD and DmC are going to perform although I do personally wish for DD's success as it is something bold that Capcom has at least tried to do in this generation (although at too high of a cost I am afraid).
The sad thing is that Capcom did take some good lessons from "western" developers. More than any other large team, they developed a core multiplatform technology base. The MT Framework really did work well on PS3 and 360, and they were able to iterate on it throughout the generation. Even their online features were decent, among the best from a Japanese studio.

Unfortunately, they took all the wrong lessons on the design side. You said it well.
 
Nov 13, 2011
6,585
2
0
What made RE4 good then? It wasn't survival horror. Suplexes maybe? No, really.. other than the atmosphere of the village/castle it's essentially RE5 minus the co-op. Forget the entire drawn-out island section of running forward and fighting endless waves?
Atmosphere, a functional inventory, and not being bogged down by HORRIBLE partner AI.
 
Sep 21, 2010
27,716
0
640
videogames?
twitter.com
lol the thread title reeks of the crap dumb blogs try to pull. He's clearly referring to action games in general, not only Call of Duty (which is at the very high end of the spectrum). Kind of hard to argue against the fact that action market is bigger than the "survival horror" (read: action games slightly more preoccupied with spooky atmosphere) market.

That said if people want to use that as an excuse to talk about how they didn't like where the series went with 4+ that's fair. (Though the progression began as early as 2.)

Dead Space is shamefully overrated when people put it above RE4/5.
 
Jul 24, 2007
20,433
0
0
Toronto
I was pissing on what Capcom was doing to Resident Evil and people were obstinately insisting across multiple threads, even after the Operation Raccoon City admission, that Capcom was not in fact destroying a classic survival horror franchise in a misguided quest for the Call of Duty demographic.
This makes more sense now, thanks.
 
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
0
0
Tentpole franchises and enormous IPs? Yes. Downloadable games and indie games? No. Though I'm surprised that Journey didn't have kill streaks and Mountain Dew tie ins.
Eh, I want to give developers more credit. Look at Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Batman, etc. We did get a fair share of big budget games that weren't the usual Fueled By Dew fratboy bullshit. And not only that, a lot of them were very successful.

There are good reasons to be cynical about the games industry, but it wasn't just 'indie' games that pushed the envelope in my opinion.
 
Apr 15, 2011
36,667
0
525
I thought most people loved RE4?
RE4 was a turning point... and as a result had a lot of traditional elements still around while it adopted more action elements, thus creating a hybrid that appealed to a lot of people, albeit at the cost of truly being scary (which helped bring in more, myself included). RE5 shows they took the wrong message from that, rather than exploring that formula further like Dead Space ended up doing.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Nov 26, 2008
13,783
4
800
Atmosphere, a functional inventory, and not being bogged down by HORRIBLE partner AI.
Atmosphere, agreed. A functional inventory? Nothing wrong with RE5's inventory. I just recently platted the game for a second time. The inventory is actually done great between missions with storing/buying/upgrading. RE4 is a tetris game. Seriously..the inventory? And RE5 is not meant to be played solo. If you played it with the AI, well, that's on you.

Do a No Merchant Run and then tell me RE4 can't be survival horror.
This is the same as telling me to turn the lights off when I play to make it scarier. I shouldn't have to add on layers of handicaps to make the game design (or in this case "genre design") better. That's the..game designer's..job.

Just to clarify, I love RE4, but I don't see how a fan of RE4 could not enjoy RE5 and the eventual RE6. It's an evolution of 4's ideas. If you don't play co-op games, well, then the argument ends there. 5 and 6 are co-op games.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Sep 25, 2005
55,616
1
1,440
Atmosphere, agreed. A functional inventory? Nothing wrong with RE5's inventory. I just recently platted the game for a second time. The inventory is actually done great between missions with storing/buying/upgrading. RE4 is a tetris game. Seriously..the inventory? And RE5 is not meant to be played solo. If you played it with the AI, well, that's on you.
I need my attache case. Sorry, if you stick an AI partner with me all game, don't make her braindead. You can do co-op without ruining true single player.
 
Mar 22, 2007
23,613
2
1,000
Certainly more lovers then haters, but there has always been a decent size group who either don't think that RE4 is the most amazing thing since sliced bread (where I'm coming from) or that RE4 very much set up the actionness and didn't have enough REmake/RE2 creepyness and there for is bad.
I actually cant remember to have seen any particular criticism against RE4, but as with all games, everyone wont like the same things as much at the other. It is indeed true that RE4 is quite different from the earlier RE games.
 
Jul 29, 2010
15,423
2
610
www.neogaf.com
What made RE4 good then? It wasn't survival horror. Suplexes maybe? No, really.. other than the atmosphere of the village/castle it's essentially RE5 minus the co-op. Forget the entire drawn-out island section of running forward and fighting endless waves?
Brilliant encounter design. pacing, economy, boss fights, etc... whereas RE5 was creatively bankrupt in these departments. Every "room" had something new and interesting despite the game being over 10 hours on a first playthrough. Post-game content such as Assignment Ada and Mercs (the only thing RE5 got right imo) extended the game's playtime further and unlocked additional content in the main campaign. And no endless waves in RE4.

On action: I wouldn't call RE4 anything other than a third person shooter. A primitive third person shooter, but a third person shooter nonetheless. But what separates it from most modern shooters is that instead of simply upping the enemy count, it only really throws a few guys at you at the same time. RE4 focuses on forming relationships between the player and his enemies that extend beyond "bang bang you're dead". Each individual enemy feels relevant is a pleasure to deal with.
 
Jan 18, 2006
70,949
2
0
30
The sad thing is that Capcom did take some good lessons from "western" developers. More than any other large team, they developed a core multiplatform technology base. The MT Framework really did work well on PS3 and 360, and they were able to iterate on it throughout the generation. Even their online features were decent, among the best from a Japanese studio.

Unfortunately, they took all the wrong lessons on the design side. You said it well.
Oh don't get me wrong, Capcom has done a lot of rights in this generation and I would say that they are the Japanese gaming company has done the best adjusting to next-gen expectation. Capcom should be taking lessons and technology from Western devs and games but they should be using it to make experiences that they are the best at making not attempting to make a knock off and then plastering one of their IPs name over it.

It's also true that Capcom is getting way too greedy. DMC4 and RE5 were respectively the highest selling games in their franchises but Capcom was not satisfied with their results... they want a lot more. Their expectations are unreasonable... expecting DmC to sell 5 million or Dragon's Dogma to sell 10 million is just ridiculous.
 
Apr 15, 2011
36,667
0
525
Every MMORPG wants to be and sell as much as WoW.

Every non-MMORPG wants to be and sell as much as CoD.

What the fuck did Activision do to this industry?!?
Well, at least the former was something established LONG before they owned Blizzard, may've actually declined some since if anything. The latter though is... yeah.

I almost wonder if this could be a key factor in causing a crash if it happens. Everyone wants to be CoD, tries to go for CoD numbers... and in the process ignores the silent majority that wanted anything BUT CoD (or want something very different from CoD when getting another game). Terribly shortsighted to set THAT as the goal post, worse in that investors may well be putting pressure to do that or resign.
 
Jun 6, 2004
14,917
0
1,440
its funny how the "carrot on a stick" multiplayer is what set the world on fire this gen.

CoD is the casual/jock MMO.

Activision are the smartest people around, they were able to bring WoW in instead of being stupid enough to go head to head with it.
actually Blizzards parent company bought Activision, but no ones keeping score anymore.

and yeah survival horror is pretty much dead, It had a nice 4 year run but after silent hill 2 it was nothing but downhill.
 
Nov 13, 2011
6,585
2
0
A functional inventory? Nothing wrong with RE5's inventory. I just recently platted the game for a second time. The inventory is actually done great between missions with storing/buying/upgrading. RE4 is a tetris game. Seriously..the inventory?
In RE4, an herb takes up the amount of space you'd expect it to take up. In RE5? A single herb takes up the same amount of space as a rocket launcher.
 

Setero

Neo Member
Oct 8, 2011
147
0
0
This is the same as telling me to turn the lights off when I play to make it scarier. I shouldn't have to add on layers of handicaps to make the game design (or in this case "genre design") better. That's the..game designer's..job.

Just to clarify, I love RE4, but I don't see how a fan of RE4 could not enjoy RE5 and the eventual RE6. It's an evolution of 4's ideas. If you don't play co-op games, well, then the argument ends there. 5 and 6 are co-op games.
My point stands though, you seem to claim RE4 has no survival horror elements, even with using the merchant its not until later that things become a problem. Early RE had combat as an option(at least from RE2 on when ammo was more plentiful) and IMO was a better option since enemies didn't respawn, removing all enemies from an area was a safer option, yet you would call it survival horror?

As for reasons as an RE4 fan how can I dislike RE5, well I would say combat in RE5 isn't anywhere near as tense as RE4, in RE4 until you have overpowered upgraded weapons and unlockables you still feel vulnerable.
 
Sep 21, 2010
27,716
0
640
videogames?
twitter.com
If Capcom really wanted to emulate CoD, RE6 would be very different. It would at least be more like RE:ORC, but they could do a lot better/worse than that.

The half-baked cynicism and visible defensiveness against "the fratboys" in threads where Call of Duty pops up looks silly to the point of parody time to time.
 
Feb 24, 2011
4,312
0
0
28
REmake is not an easy recommendation to make at all. It's great if you grew up playing earlier installments, but I doubt someone coming into the series in a post RE4 would will have the patience for it. Even with the cool additions like Crimson Heads and the rearranged enemy placements. I think it's a great game but I completely understand the uninitiated would see it as an archaic bore.
Describes me to a tee. My first RE game was 4. Tried playing REmake a few weeks back, and ugh. Far too slow and plodding for me. Those tank controls in particular killed it for me.
 
Mar 23, 2006
12,623
0
0
Chicago IL.
RE4 is simply an amazing game. Amazing enemy encounter design. Really, each enemy in 4 is full of tension and thanks to controls there's incredible tension. People say they are archaic. I say to hell with them. RE4's controls are still survival horror in how they make you feel. They make you really pay attention to what's going on. You need to be aware of your placement and the enemies placement. And then the aiming makes you really try to make sure your shoots count, because well you can't move. People complain that's dumb. I think they are dumb. That just makes the game so much better. And man the weapons,mi can't think of a game were I use every weapon because every weapon feels worthwhile and really makes you think how you should use them in many situations.

I wouldn't say RE4 is your typical survival horror. I think someone called it "adrenaline horror" and well maybe that's more apt.

Either way you compare this to 5 and well it's not the same game. Beyond the fact that it lacks any real atmosphere. The game just seems to throw enemies at you with no real attempt of doing anything with them. The co op hardly is optimized either. It's a pretty creatively bankrupt game.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Mar 29, 2009
28,102
0
0
noplatform.wordpress.com
Resident Evil 5 has probably sold around 6 million copies by now though. If Capcom doesn't consider that enough of a success then goddamn.

All these publishers need to realize that Call of Duty is pretty much the ONLY shooter doing 20 million copies. The only other franchises that can compete on the same level are Mario, Mario Kart, and Grand Theft Auto. Not to mention Skyrim - an RPG, doing something like 10 million. But I guess that's why they want Dragon's Dogma to do 10 million.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
49,170
0
1,010
lol the thread title reeks of the crap dumb blogs try to pull. He's clearly referring to action games in general, not only Call of Duty (which is at the very high end of the spectrum). Kind of hard to argue against the fact that action market is bigger than the "survival horror" (read: action games slightly more preoccupied with spooky atmosphere) market.

That said if people want to use that as an excuse to talk about how they didn't like where the series went with 4+ that's fair. (Though the progression began as early as 2.)

Dead Space is shamefully overrated when people put it above RE4/5.
There is no universe in which DS1&2 werent better than 5