Causa Nintendo - Why 2018 is not so bad/Real Problems Incoming

#1
Since it was me who started the rather negative thread about the Switch' h1/2018-lineup, I really wanted to make this one here to put the current situation into a more nuanced, fair perspective, especially since we seem to have many users having gone on the quarterly 'Nintendo is doomed'-spree :)

There are several ways to eveluate Nintendo at this moment in time and I feel that people are forgetting a couple of them. This goes for both the negative as well as the positive crowd. Since we're living in the now and here let's start with 2018:

As I detailed in the other thread, Nintendo's h1/2018-lineup was terrible and E3 was never going to chance that, time being linear and such! I also think the h2/2018-lineup is nothing to be impressed of - 1st party-wise! That is an important differentiation to be drawn. Criticism against Nintendo's first-party offerings is well deserved. There's not much, there have been delays, etc.. But fortunately, the Switch' h2/2018-lineup doesn't only consist of first-party games. Let's have a look at the games releasing THIS YEAR. I'll surely miss some, but just the most popular ones:

- Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
- Pokemon Let's Go!
- Fortnite
- Paladins
- Octopath Traveler
- Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate
- Mario Tennis Aces
- Ys 8
- Wolfenstein 2
- Dark Souls Remastered
- Starlink
- My Hero One's Justice
- Valkyria Chronicles 4
- Shining Resonance Refrain
- Dragon Ball FighterZ
- Xenoblade Chronicles 2-DLC
- Tales of Vesperia

These are titles that I think have some 'meat' to them. It's not the complete lineup. But I think it shows well enough: There's no overall drought in the h2/2018-lineup. The first half was terrible, definitely. But the second half is easily decent. Unless you're rich and have really too much time, this should satisfy anyone, be it rpg-fans, action-fans or multiplayer-fans.

It could be better - Fire Emblem and Yoshi in 2018 would have gone a long way - but even then, it's okay. And let's stop being couch potato analysts here: Most of us aren't Switch-only gamers. I know I'll be getting Spiderman for my PS4 and other titles as well. I'll try to tackle my Steam-backlog. And there's some Vita-games I need to finish, too. In short: None of us depend on the Switch alone to satisfy our gaming palate. The same is true for any one system. We're (mostly) past any fanboy/console warrior bs, we pick and choose the games we want to play not based on what system we own. We buy systems that have games we want to play. Gaming is affordable enough for that. The Switch has an okay h2/2018-lineup. The PS4 and X1 have, too.

That's 2018. On to 2019. Which is where the real, new problems come into effect:

At the heart of it, I see three central problems for the year 2019 that haven't been answered and that we shoud focus our criticism against Nintendo on.

1) 2018 titles were delayed to 2019.
The aforementioned Yoshi and Fire Emblem were moved to next year. Most of us fully expected both to release this year. I vividly remember people wondering why Nintendo would release Kirby and Yoshi so close to each other - yeah, Yoshi was once expected to release early 2018. Now they're 2019-games. But their delay itself isn't the main issue here: It's not too far-fetched to assume that Nintendo will be using these games to fill out their first-party 2019-lineup - in the same way they did 2018? My big fear is that similar to h1/2018, we'll ONLY see Yoshi and Fire Emblem in the first half of 2019, two games that originally were supposed to strengthen last year's lineup. It makes me think Nintendo will AGAIN stretch their games extremely thin, believing that it's enough. But that wouldn't be fair, would it. It reminds me of a shitty husband who treats his wife without any affection all year long, but on her 30th/40th/50th/etc birthday he plans a big party for her and even sings in front of all the guests for her. I daresay most wives would prefer a loving husband on a daily base, rather than some spectacle every ten years. That's what Nintendo is prone of doing: Saving up games that should have long released, then using them to 'reward' fans at a later date. It doesn't feel good.

2) Third-Parties? Hello, McFly, hello?!
This is the Switch' 2nd year. It's a massive (on-going) success. Most 3rd-party games released on Switch are great successes. And yet here we are and have less/worse 3rd-party announcements than during last year's E3. EA still gives incremental support. Capcpom is Capcpom. Bethesda only announced some old f2p-game, ports of Fallout 3/4 nowhere to be seen. Activision with the mind-baffeling omission of Spyro. And where's GTA5? This was the last sensible year to announce and release it. By next E3, a GTA5-announcement would be rather embarrassing. And then the most disappointing publisher: Ubisoft. One would have thought the success of Mario+Rabbids would bear fruits with more high-profile titles. The only new announcement is a Trials-port and the Starfox-bonus in the last year announced Starlink. Where's Ubisoft's support? If they really can't port Assassin's Creed to Switch, then they should have looked into different options. A Switch-exclusive Prince of Persia would have been great. A new Rayman-game. Zombi U2. Or another Nintendo IP-collaboration. There's plenty of approaches. But nothing.

The lack of 3rd-party support is a BIG problem, on a level that's not precedent for successful Nintendo-systems. 'Nintendo-fans should be used to this' is an entirely invalid excuse for 3rd-parties. Wii had many great 3rd-party games. GameCube and N64 had them, too. The Wii U is the only exception and we know why that is. But what's happening is that 3rd-party publishers are treating the Switch like another Wii U. And that's not good.

3) 1 + 1 = 0?
Most of us expected all software droughts in Nintendo's 1st-party lineup to be a thing of the past when they combined handheld- and console efforts/ressources into one system. That hasn't had any visible results (yet?). This might be the most bewildering revelation after 1,5 years of the Switch. You'd like to imagine Nintendo would be 'crapping out' 1st-party titles month after month now that all their dev teams support one system. The opposite is true: Nintendo's 1st-party output is worse (on par at best) than during the Wii U-days! It's absolutely staggering how that came to be. But it did. Nintendo either saw massive internal problems or they're following an asinine release strategy. And did I touch upon the missing Virtual Console, the lack of Netflix, the lack of proper voice-chat (that Fortnite proved to be possible), etc.?

Something is off in the house of Nintendo.

To conclude:
There are real, important problems that ought to be talked about so that Nintendo feels pressured enough to adress them. That's especially important because it's the future of Switch that's at stake, not the present. Which brings me to 2018: Let's stop the silly doom and gloom-talk about this year's lineup. I understand that there'll always be people individually who don't like the ENTIRE lineup. But chances are you have other systems then to satisfy your gaming urges. By all practical means, though, the Switch' h2/2018-lineup looks fine. Not overly impressive, but fine enough to get hundreds of hours of fun playtime.

Nintendo's E3 2018 was terrible.
Their remaining 2018-lineup is fine enough.
Let's talk about the real problems.

That's it. I hope some of you can look at the situation at hand like I do. Please post your own opinion and how you feel about the above proposed points :)
 
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#2
Yeah, looking at that list, there's a decent amount of games to play this year. Major ones too. Maybe there's too much focus on Nintendo's first party exclusives. However, it's also true those Nintendo games are the main reason most of us purchased the Switch in the first place. I know I didn't get my Switch to play Fortnite, a game that has been available for about half a year now, or Paladins, which I first played two(!) years ago. I didn't get my Switch to pay extra for delayed third party ports either. It's cool to see those games on Switch, don't get me wrong, but most of 'em don't add much value for me personally.

Thinking about it a bit more carefully though, I think I'm just disappointed because I've come to the realization that Nintendo hasn't changed. They seemed to be doing everything right for the Switch's launch, and I thought they actually new what they were doing now. It seemed as if Nintendo had risen from the ashes of the Wii U like a majestic phoenix, and that they had learned from their previous mistakes. That they were now ready with all their development teams to produce great games for the ultimate Nintendo machine. But now we're starting to see the cracks appear in that mask. It seems that was all a facade. Their unified development thingymajig hasn't paid off at all. They announce games and then just pretend they didn't exist or delay them withour further notice. They invest in games for casuals (labo) while the hardcore fans are sitting there, wanting. They think it's okay to spend more than 20 mins talking about Smash at E3, without showing off much else.

You're right in how you describe it as an almost abusive relationship. The fact that we have to be 'afraid' of next year's line-up already, is quite telling, I think. Nintendo just does whatever it feels like, no matter what fans want, what's expected or even convenient. They could've announced downloadable Gamecube games, and this E3 would have been very different. They could have released a Zelda collection this year. There's so many easy things they could have done to appease fans but... they just don't.

It seems Nintendo either can't satisfy their fans, or doesn't know how to. And that's disappointing.
 
#3
I agree with what you said mostly. Like always!

I still think Nintendo should have another 5 ports for Switch this year. Hypothetically, if Nintendo would have announced five ports that were like:

-or any other combination of games of the same caliber-


- Madden port or another sport game
- Persona 4 or 5 port
- Garden Warfare Switch Deluxe port -or- Borderlands 1 HD remake port that is coming this fall for PS4/Xbone
- Another Wii U port like Tokyo’s Mirage Session, Paper Mario Color Splash, or Zelda Twilight Princess + Wind Walker Deluxe port (Nothing fancy, lower cost)
- or *gasp* a Metroid Prime 1 HD Deluxe port
- Fallout port

If these types of games were announced, everyone would have been perfectly happy with Nintendo’s E3. It might not have set the world on fire. But it would have satisfied everyone, no questions asked.

IMO, it is Nintendo’s responsibility to structure the release schedule for first and 3rd parties, so they can achieve greatest success. It is also my opinion that nintendo should moneyhat some ports every year for Switch.

Hopefully Nintendo has a few more ports to announce later this year.
 
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#4
I think the Switch is still recovering from the Wii U's third party shunning. Developers/Publishers are showing more and more interest in the Switch as times goes on. The better it sells, the more money and resources that will be allocated towards it.

Fortnite on the Switch was downloaded 2 Million times in 24 hours. Developers/Publishers take notice of that kind of success.
 
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#5
2)
Why you think third parties should release a game for the Switch?
It's not that they hate the system. Either they lose money/ don't earn enough if they release for the Switch or they earn a lot more putting resources in consoles with bigger user bases.
 
#6
To me, Nintendo's only chance with the Switch is to dramatically improve their first party output. It's clear that they're not getting AAA third party support on this system.

They should release 20-30 games a year if this is their strategy.

The analogy I would make is to certain co-op games or running raids. You can try and play single-player, but it will be much more difficult by deciding to go it alone. Nintendo has basically decided to go it alone by abandoning AAA third party studios with their level of graphical capability. And that's fine. I personally feel that Switch graphics are "good enough" as is. It's clear that many of Nintendo's software partners disagree however, so Nintendo needs to step up their internal game considerably.

They've made this bed for themselves. If they want to not receive as much criticism, feel free to release a console that can comfortably run Fortnite at 60 frames per second.

(I hate that you have to give a disclaimer on all Nintendo threads, but allow me to mention that I do own a Switch and enough games that I need to click that "more games" tile on the far right of the menu. I am a fan, not a drive by critic.)
 
#8
Haha I thought this would be a Kevin Keene thread.

You're missing... FIFA 19? lol
Switch isn't even getting Blops4 or BFV or a lot of high profile third party titles.
um.....no thank you, Switch its getting much better third party multipaltform game and it called Valkyria Chronicles 4. I didnt got my switch to getting boring mutiplatform games like COD, BF or AC games.
 
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#9
Nintendo is going to struggle mightily with 3rd parties as their already pitiful hardware will get outclassed by the new upcoming hardware. They're going to be relying almost entirely on 1st party yet again. We're already seeing 3rd party titles get delayed, likely due to their far weaker hardware. They're fine for now, but it's going to be a huge problem in the future. I really wish they would've priced the system at least $400 to put in more powerful hardware.
 
#12
I think third party support as it is now is how it will continue to be, maybe with some more japanese games. So mostly graphically undemanding indies, some graphically undemanding third party games and ports of older games.
You bring up Ubisoft and it's true that Mario Rabbits did well, but the question here is did it make more money for Ubisoft than Ghost Recon Wildlands, Far Cry 5, Ac Origins , R6 siege, etc? Probably not. As a third party dev you try to make games for the biggest market possible, and as well as the Switch is doing it can't compete with Ps4 + Xb1 + Pc combined. I'm not saying Ubisoft won't support the Switch but I think they will do so as they have until now, some ports of the games the Switch can handle (maybe with some exclusive Nintendo themed content/DLC) ,and an original collaboration with Nintendo every now and then. I don't see them putting multiple teams to work on multiple Switch games.

For first party I do at least hope to see things improve. Honestly, since it's a Nintendo console I got it fully expecting to only get 2-3 games that interest me every year and as long as it can provide that and gets some decent ports it's fulfilling its role as a side console for me.
This year has been pretty bad with only 1 game that really interests me (Octopath Traveler, which isn't even made by Nintendo) but next year will hopefully get better and I hope that from that point forward Nintendo is able to keep a decent stream of games coming.
The main thing that hyped me about the Switch was the idea of Nintendo being able to fully focus on one system. So far that has yet to translate into a more frequent and varied releases than their previous home consoles....but I haven't lost hope. I hope they realise that a lot of people would be fine with some lower budget 3DS style games in between the big releases, as long as they don't sell them for $60 (but with Nintendo you never know).

I'm willing to let this year slide and I hope it's just them getting overconfident in the power of Smash + Pokémon. They might not really interest me but I see how those 2 games alone will sell a ton of Switches
 
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#13
there’s so many games they could port to fill in the gaps from the WiiU, 3DS and other past systems. I hope they have some surprises for the next Nintendo Direct.

I’d love to play A Link Between Worlds HD, as I’m a huge fan of Link to the Past. Either way, this situation is not that bad, imo. I think Nintendo will get it sorted out and also that we will get a surprise or two this year (maybe Super Mario 3D World & Land).
 
#14
I know thats why I said "much better third party multipaltform game" on my last post.
I think it's better to have Valkyria Chronicles 4 AND these shitty churned out game by souless publishers lol, but those games are stuff people want, unfortunately. If Nintendo is going to get real third party support, they're going to need the games that all the casuals would turn their heads for. Fortnite is a good start, though.
 
#15
I think it's better to have Valkyria Chronicles 4 AND these shitty churned out game by souless publishers lol, but those games are stuff people want, unfortunately. If Nintendo is going to get real third party support, they're going to need the games that all the casuals would turn their heads for. Fortnite is a good start, though.
I think people who are in to those type of games already have Xbox and PS4 and most of their friend are on those systems. I personally rather see Nintendo getting 3rd party Japanese games like VC4, SMTV, Octopath Traveler and recently announced DAEMON X MACHINA.
 
#16
for each console we have to consider always the 2 situations.

FIRST SITUATION
Console vs market
Every gen we make a lot of discussion on the status of these companies,
in the last gen we are shifting from analize copies sold to analize money made out of services.
Both Sony and MS are investing big money on online services.
Nintendo is following now starting with this gen.
the losing of importance for fairs and shows like this E3 ( everybody lost let's tell truth here... ) make console war on this front losing importance when it comes to create hype to rise selling.
actually any console on the market is building continuous hype using marketing on the internet, and as a paradox these investments are so huge that no consumer movements on the internet alone, not 4chan, not neogaf not any else, could really impact sales.
In the past bloggers and some youtubers can have some negative impact, but nowdays even if some honest blogger says that game is shit, even having millions of followers still they cannot have a real impact on sales.
on this front hardcore gamers became non relevant as in the past and market is driven no more by conscious consumers.

the market for these 3 companies is healthy and growing , but not in the old manner, and in the future their revenues will come more and more from services, we will see less numbers and more totals and percentages coming not froma direct comparision
Exception Nintendo that is a toys company (never forget guys, before being a videogame company Nintendo is STILL a toy company.
It's nice and funny when we make a lot of discussion on market shares ect ect...but coming to reality none of the 3 are doing bad.
"bad" and "good" are just categories we use to fuel are discussions on the internet, but really speaking they are making a lot of money.

SECOND SITUATION
Console vs YOU
this is also a thing we see each generation.
problem here is people accepting or not that they dont' like the console they bought, and not accpting it they try to find comfort on the internet or even try to convince other people that the console is not good anymore.
these people tend to "be" the console, and on fanboy side they tend to be the company.
Actually this become middle gen most discussed topic on forums .
Nintendo is a champion on this, they gather the most "hate and love" feeling from many aficionados.
But lately we see also MS supporters got this feeling.
you see this in football too, supporters can block a stadium to protest about bad managing and results.
it's "their team", the team they sing for every sunday.
same is you console fanboy, but while hooligans maybe can have a chance to be heard, nobody actually is listening to you.
so that should bring you acceptance, they dont make you Fifa19?
live with it and buy a second console , or better, a pc.
it's difficult to be a mono brand console fanboy these days.
but if you decide so then follow coherence on your decision and do not complaint.
things are not going to change because of your wishes about Nintendo or Microsoft or Sony.

coming to the topic:
Kimishima managing is going well, Nintendo became more hardcore and got some third party love, it's all perfect? no online i a big ? , but still their choices on games are good, they target new gen kids, but also gave some game to old gamers, their realising is good while not so huge like Sony one, but first party quality is still good.
E3 show was a bit a strange one, for me it's like they are facing devs problems with upcomgin big games, or they are developing a new console.
they know that smash is a big game but not so big to take 2/3 of the entire show.
it's clearly a filling for some big game not getting a dev milestone to be shown, or really they are developing some hardware and literally had no time to prepare more games for E3.

side note:
Retro Studio should be dismantled and splitted at this point at least into 2
"RS1" developing new indie games
"RS2" developing support for Japan NCL games
I suspect they are just up because of the name and marketing impact of such a historical name being closed.
 
#17
Agree with most your points. Based on the list you have for 2018, I will be buying at least 5 titles at launch/near launch for sure - these will be enough for me to last until 2019, especially with MHGU and DS in the mix. Also, there are definitely other console exclusives to get this year. I still haven't bought God of War, and Spider-man is definitely a sure purchase as well (missing Batman Arkham games). This E3, I have already downloaded Hollow Knight, Fortnite, and will probably be buying more stuff once the eShop discounts are live. So all in all, I think Nintendo's got it covered for 2018.

Worries for 2019 can be alleviated by "simple" solutions. Somehow, I was expecting Nintendo would partner with Konami for a Castlevania 2D (NES/SNES/GBA) collection. I think the Megaman legacy and Neogeo ACA collections would be testament on how well these games can sell on the platform. There is also the questionable absence of Atlus - at least a teaser for SMT V. I have a feeling that Nintendo will have another direct in the next few weeks or in August to discuss their online system, and show updates to their future lineup.

Another positive note from this E3 would be that the rumored Star Fox racing game is not true.
 
#18
When the Switch hit it off, I ate some crow; I predicted an outright Wii U failure, and I was wrong. I predicted a failure because, in my opinion, the physical limitations of the hardware would prevent porting virtually every major title without ground-up re-work. I didn’t expect DOOM-style ports. Looking at the slowly dwindling support, I think my original point stands, I just underestimated some developers. Third parties ARE physically unable to develop for the Switch because the hardware is just too far behind. And the traditional failure of third parties on N hardware rightfully makes them wary of re-work just for the Switch. Curious to see their solution in the coming year.
 
#19
Yeah, looking at that list, there's a decent amount of games to play this year. Major ones too. Maybe there's too much focus on Nintendo's first party exclusives. However, it's also true those Nintendo games are the main reason most of us purchased the Switch in the first place. I know I didn't get my Switch to play Fortnite, a game that has been available for about half a year now, or Paladins, which I first played two(!) years ago. I didn't get my Switch to pay extra for delayed third party ports either. It's cool to see those games on Switch, don't get me wrong, but most of 'em don't add much value for me personally.

Thinking about it a bit more carefully though, I think I'm just disappointed because I've come to the realization that Nintendo hasn't changed. They seemed to be doing everything right for the Switch's launch, and I thought they actually new what they were doing now. It seemed as if Nintendo had risen from the ashes of the Wii U like a majestic phoenix, and that they had learned from their previous mistakes. That they were now ready with all their development teams to produce great games for the ultimate Nintendo machine. But now we're starting to see the cracks appear in that mask. It seems that was all a facade. Their unified development thingymajig hasn't paid off at all. They announce games and then just pretend they didn't exist or delay them withour further notice. They invest in games for casuals (labo) while the hardcore fans are sitting there, wanting. They think it's okay to spend more than 20 mins talking about Smash at E3, without showing off much else.

You're right in how you describe it as an almost abusive relationship. The fact that we have to be 'afraid' of next year's line-up already, is quite telling, I think. Nintendo just does whatever it feels like, no matter what fans want, what's expected or even convenient. They could've announced downloadable Gamecube games, and this E3 would have been very different. They could have released a Zelda collection this year. There's so many easy things they could have done to appease fans but... they just don't.

It seems Nintendo either can't satisfy their fans, or doesn't know how to. And that's disappointing.
The decision to support a unified platform, i.e. Switch, must have come around early 2016 and given a 3-year development cycle, here's my take:

1. 3DS studios have moved over to Switch and they will release native Switch games in 2019-2020. As a consequence of the migration, the 3DS will not have new major releases this 2018 and if any will simply be games that re-use existing assets.
2. Development of native Switch games that started in 2016 will be completed in 2019.
3. Most of the games released in 2017-2018 were simply ports of Wii U games (porting requires much less development time so this a good interim solution to software drought).
4. Wii U games that were started in 2014 will be transferred to Switch or released on Wii U in a very raw or altered state. Most of the features of BoTW Wii U were removed so the Switch version can look superior. It could even be possible that Mario Odyssey was initially a Wii U game and then migrated to Switch. Bad games like Mario Tennis Ultra Smash were obviously released too soon but you can see that the finished game that arrived on Switch is actually very good.

If 2019 comes and there are still no 1st party games on the Switch, then Nintendo just screwed us all. For now, I can wait (as long as the Indies continue on delivering the best games I've played for a long time).
 
#20
People that only have the Switch, and no gaming PC or other console, can be satisfied with this line-up.

But others, like me, who have Xbox One X or PS4 or a PC will have access to most of the library with much superior quality graphics, so everything that is multi-plat is pretty pointless.

If like me you have a Wii U, all the Wii U ports get pointless too. So in the end, almost nothing remains lol.
 
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#21
People that only have the Switch, and no gaming PC or other console, can be satisfied with this line-up.

But others, like me, who have Xbox One X or PS4 or a PC will have access to most of the library with much superior quality graphics, so everything that is multi-plat is pretty pointless.

If like me you have a Wii U, all the Wii U ports get pointless too. So in the end, almost nothing remains lol.
I disagree. I have 2 PS4's, 2 PC's, 2 Wii U's, 2 Laptops, iPads, 2 3DS's plus the old consoles but I don't touch them anymore (for games). I want my games playable everywhere, hence I play almost exclusively on the Switch. The term "multi-plat" only applies to consoles/PC's that you plug in your TV. Either you play a game at home or you play the game anywhere.
 
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#22
most people buying a switch going into the holiday are buying it for mario kart, zelda, ect. nintendo systems mainly subsist on evergreen titles that sell for years, outside our little bubble nobody cares about mic drop announcements. they'll need to deliver in 2019 no doubt but for now they're fine
 
#24
Obviously not everyone wants this.
Even then: So you have a PS4. What problem is it that Switch doesn't have a lot for you this year? You don't have infinite money and time (well, certainly not the latter), and if you're interested in all the Sony- and 3rd-party games, you won't have time for more than 2-3 Switch-games anyway :D
Not knowing your tastes: Get Smash Bros, which is a unique game not found anywhere else. Get Vesperia, because there should be no difference between versions. And get Valkyria Chronicles 4, also an undemanding title. Now you'll have games with hundreds of hours of gaming value for your Switch - much more than all those cinematic shooters in the PS4's lineup put together ;)

But you do you. As mentioned in the OP: Switch' 2018-lineup isn't impressive. But it's fine.
 
#26
What we need to make things look good is a great game from retro, like metroid prime, releasing in early 2019. No more donkey kongs, crappy mario parties, indie like yoshis games, so they can see the buffet has stuff to eat.
 
#27
I lost faith in Nintendo after they abandoned their fans during the Wii U era. I thought they were turning it around but it seems to be getting bad again.

These software droughts are inexcusable. If they only want to sell hardware then they need to get better 3rd party support for it. If they are going to continue to develop games they need to get faster and given they dont have 2 systems anymore there really is no excuse.

I buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo games and other exclusives. I dont care about indies or 3rd party games which are also available on PC or PS4 or whatever. Portability doesnt effect me. I remember saying this when the Switch was announced. I said "If they have games the system will sell, period". They had games last year and it seems that they dont have them this year. I dont think they are going to meet their lofty hardware sales goals in 2018 with this lineup.
 
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#29
People that only have the Switch, and no gaming PC or other console, can be satisfied with this line-up.
I'm the opposite way actually. Because I also have a PS4, I don't mind Nintendo not having a ton released for the remainder of the year as there will be plenty to play once you add all the PS4 games coming as well. Doesn't mean I don't want Nintendo to have a healthy release schedule (I'm certainly happy to finally play Hollow Knight on the system) but some of us who have other systems have the mindset that it's not as crucial as we have other options outside of Nintendo to play.

Chinbo37: you're forgetting one thing: POKEMON. Like it or not, Pokemon main games are system sellers, the #2-4 of the top 5 best selling 3DS games were all Pokemon gen games (and yeah, Pokemon's Lets Go is arguably not a true "gen", but to most consumers that likely won't matter) and they were only beat by Mario Kart which is generally THE IP system seller for Nintendo (for the Wii, they were only bested by Wii Sports itself which was a pack-in game for most Wii systems so that doesn't really count).
 
#30
Great thread/post OP!

My biggest concern going forward is where the heck is the third party support in 2019? I was seriously expecting a very generous amount of new third party support games or at least ports(GTA V) being announced but nothing.

My brother made IMO a good point why this Nintendo E3 showing may have been "light" on announcements/reveals. Nintendo is actively working on a more powerful Switch revision(at the bare minimum, I think we'll get the Tegra X2) and that third parties may be under strict NDA regarding future games/announcements for the revision. I mean, locked down, ninja tight NDA.

They want to keep selling Switches like mad and don't want to give fans an excuse *NOT* to buy a Switch if they know a more powerful revision is a year away or less. I've already read that some MS fans are re-thinking Xbox One X purchases because MS said they were actively working on new consoles.


I think we'll get the revision announced slightly before or during E3 2019 for a fall 2019 release. This timing would for the first time in awhile, be to Nintendo's benefit as the new "super consoles" from MS and Sony still wouldn't be out until 2020-2021. I honestly don't see MS or Sony having a whole new console on market in 2019.

While the system would definitely be backwards compatible, I think this will be a case like the PS4 Pro where developers will have to "code" for the more powerful hardware accordingly for their game.
 
#32
Chinbo37: you're forgetting one thing: POKEMON. Like it or not, Pokemon main games are system sellers, the #2-4 of the top 5 best selling 3DS games were all Pokemon gen games (and yeah, Pokemon's Lets Go is arguably not a true "gen", but to most consumers that likely won't matter) and they were only beat by Mario Kart which is generally THE IP system seller for Nintendo (for the Wii, they were only bested by Wii Sports itself which was a pack-in game for most Wii systems so that doesn't really count).

Im just not sure Pokeman Lets Go is a system seller. I just dont see the hype for this game online. I may be completely wrong though. I feel like it will sell but i am not sure that it will sell a lot of new Switches.
 
#33
Im just not sure Pokeman Lets Go is a system seller. I just dont see the hype for this game online. I may be completely wrong though. I feel like it will sell but i am not sure that it will sell a lot of new Switches.
I wouldn't take online hype as a reliable measure. A lot of reactions are from people who consistently play all gens, I'm talking the more casual crowd. Just the Pokemon GO connection itself will likely appeal to people who play that but don't necessarily play a ton of the main Pokemon games.
 
#34
I wouldn't take online hype as a reliable measure. A lot of reactions are from people who consistently play all gens, I'm talking the more casual crowd. Just the Pokemon GO connection itself will likely appeal to people who play that but don't necessarily play a ton of the main Pokemon games.

Ya that very well could be, we will see I guess. Personally its not doing anything for me.
 
#35
Gosh are Nintendo fanboy annoying, and part of the reason why Nintendo failed few years ago.

No, third-party game that were already available 2 years ago on all other platforms from PC to Xbox/PS4 does not count as significant "announcement", nor pixel indie games that were available on Steam or mobile.

You could say legacy Wii U titles like Super Smash Ultimate, Mario Kart 8 or any missing ones (Wonderful 101? Sonic Boom? Pikmin 3?) but minor lazy titles like Octopath Traveler are not enticing to anyone either.

So the truth is Nintendo is still stuck with milking and making spin-offs of the same few franchises, instead of investing big on either AAA entries for all their other franchises (Donkey Kong 3D, F-Zero SX, Starfox Adventure 2, Breath of the Pokemon, Waverace/1080° SX, Luigi's Mansion 3...) or in second-party studios like all other platforms have been doing (Viewtiful Joe, FF Crystal Chronicles, who knows what...)
 
#36
Gosh are Nintendo fanboy annoying, and part of the reason why Nintendo failed few years ago.

No, third-party game that were already available 2 years ago on all other platforms from PC to Xbox/PS4 does not count as significant "announcement", nor pixel indie games that were available on Steam or mobile.

You could say legacy Wii U titles like Super Smash Ultimate, Mario Kart 8 or any missing ones (Wonderful 101? Sonic Boom? Pikmin 3?) but minor lazy titles like Octopath Traveler are not enticing to anyone either.

So the truth is Nintendo is still stuck with milking and making spin-offs of the same few franchises, instead of investing big on either AAA entries for all their other franchises (Donkey Kong 3D, F-Zero SX, Starfox Adventure 2, Breath of the Pokemon, Waverace/1080° SX, Luigi's Mansion 3...) or in second-party studios like all other platforms have been doing (Viewtiful Joe, FF Crystal Chronicles, who knows what...)
Why is annoying that people get excited about playing a game they like on a portable system they also like? What on earth is wrong with that?
 

Mozza

Neo Member
#38
Again most people are looking at this through the core gamers eyes,and you just can't judge the Switch by this criteria,if people want third party AAA games they will most probably buy them for Sony or Microsoft's consoles,Nintendo are always going to get third party games that suit the Switch's main audience,there will of course be ports of older titles like Doom as developers get used to the system and the installed base increases.

There looks to be more than enough games for most gamers on the console this year imo,and you have to look outside the core gamers perspective and realise not everybody has hours and hours to devote to gaming,there will be a lot of Switch owners that like the indie titles as they provide a less intensive experience.
 
#39
I will get Valkyria 4 on Xbox One X where I am certain it will run at 1080@60fps, while on Switch it will probably be sub 1080@30fps. That's a big difference to me.
And they are people that value the fact that they can play VC4 anywhere. They are actually people who would love to play Persona 5 on switch because it huge game and its ideal to play it in handheld.

minor lazy titles like Octopath Traveler are not enticing to anyone either.
WTF!!!? You may not in to game yourself but there is nothing "lazy" about it.
 
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#41
I might be the only person who is ok with this lineup. I've got the Octopath Traveler CE on pre-order, I'll definitely grab Super Mario Party ...especially after seeing the players move around the board individually and not travelling around together in one large 'participation cart' and Smash is a no brainer. After all the announcements at E3 between the Switch, my PS4 and the Xbox One, even if I'm only buying half of what I want to get, it will be a small fortune and will provide me with hours of entertainment until next summer bare minimum. Anything I was hoping for that was delayed or not mentioned, I'd rather wait for a quality product than an unfinished one.
 
#42
they should just skip the payed onlinewall, nothing in september justifies it, that said, I bet money on that they wont remove it (hence invested in some stocks earlier) since it will raise the value of having that :/
 
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#44
they should just skip the payed onlinewall, nothing in september justifies it, that said, I bet money on that they wont remove it (hence invested in some stocks earlier) since it will raise the value of having that :/
Mario Kart and Splatoon alone justify it for Nintendo. And getting any bugs worked out before Smash hits in December is smart.
 
#45
I have a PS4, good PC (came later cause old one exploded...) and Switch. From OP's list I already have all I wanted for other systems. Maybe I'll be getting Octopath and Vesperia ONLY if it's 1080p and 60fps when docked.

Yeah, it's a GOOD list if your only platform is Switch but if not it's just games that are late to the party, some niche games and Smash.
 
#46
they should just skip the payed onlinewall, nothing in september justifies it, that said, I bet money on that they wont remove it (hence invested in some stocks earlier) since it will raise the value of having that :/
Mario Kart and Splatoon alone justify it for Nintendo. And getting any bugs worked out before Smash hits in December is smart.
There's also the upcoming Mario Tennis, and Monster Hunter in August. I don't know if Fortnite and Paladins will require Nintendo online service, but they're huge online games for sure.
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
#47
Is Nintendo still sitting on tons of cash? Maybe the Wii U debacle made them overly conservative, but you'd think they would have addressed the drought issues by hiring more developers.
 
#48
I think is too soon, to complain about the 2019 lineup or be afraid of the . My main complain is that prior to E3 we had a set amount of games to be released, and after E3 we have less. And this presentation made it clear to me that the first year was an exception, and they needed to that in order to show that Switch was not the Wii U, and the problems they had with you will not exist on Switch. And the amount of Wii U ports just justify what I got from their show. And what they showed was what they really have in store for this year, and are focusing on next year. And maybe by the end of the year, they deliver a good Nintendo Direct showing what we may have on 2019.

Third party support is okay, I don'' expect much from them since the N64 days.Third parties are important, there are a lot of games that would love to play on my Switch, but a "weak" first party output bothers me more.

So far the 2018 line up is okay, not something to write home about and this line up, defines the console for me. Late ports and multi-platforms games been released at least 6 months later on Switch.Seriously, I still salty about Dark Souls Remastered be delayed on Switch and I think that this scenario will keep on. Because, if we look at E3, the AAA games or the way you prefer call it, are taking a lot of time to be made, and companies will still say "The game was in development, prior to the Switch be a thing", As of now I just see big Capcom game be released on Switch via Streaming. And if Bethesda don't release Doom Eternal and the wolfenstein young blood, this will be a problem. Third Parties on Nintendo console are a wild card, hard to predict,and I think that if Nintendo really means to be on top again, their next console must be on part with their competition, but this is something to be discussed in another topic.

Anyway, for 2019, we may got, Yoshi,Fire Emblem,Metroid Prime 4,Bayonetta 3, Daemon X Machina and Pokemon, which is looking good. An maybe Retro will show what they are developing, because next year will be the time or else I give up.
 
#49
Honestly, the worst thing anyone who is unhappy with the 2018 lineup can do is to assume that since this year was light, next year will be packed to make up for it. Experience tells me that down that road lies disappointment, and "it just makes sense" is about the worst argument you can make for predicting Nintendo's next move. Does Nintendo need to get their act together and start securing more exclusives? Of course, but that doesn't mean they will. For better and for worse, Nintendo gonna Nintendo.

When they announce they've acquired a major third party studio like Capcom or Sega or Epic Games (which is to say, never), then you can expect a significant uptick in the number of games they're able to put out in a calendar year. Until then, figure that every year will be somewhere between 2017 and 2018 in terms of output.

My brother made IMO a good point why this Nintendo E3 showing may have been "light" on announcements/reveals. Nintendo is actively working on a more powerful Switch revision(at the bare minimum, I think we'll get the Tegra X2) and that third parties may be under strict NDA regarding future games/announcements for the revision. I mean, locked down, ninja tight NDA.
While I actually agree that we'll see a revision next year, don't count on Nintendo's focus being specs or keeping up with the competition. They can't, not in a handheld form factor. More importantly, they just aren't interested. Best case scenario (barring a crazy late push for VR), you're looking at a 2x or 4x increase of power, most of which will be devoted to increasing resolution and battery life. Worse case, they devote the gains from a node shrink into a pocketable Switch Mini. There will be no uber-powerful Switch Pro that rivals the PS4/XB1, not until Nintendo's next full generational leap.

Whatever you do though, don't count on the old "third parties are under NDA" thing to bear fruit. It never, ever does. If a company was not enticed by the crazy sales of the regular Switch they absolutely won't care about a Switch Pro revision, especially when, as you say, software would have to run on both. You and your brother would be doing yourselves a huge favor if you accepted that Nintendo will largely have to carry the Switch with their own development capabilities.

I don't say any of this as a pessimist or a "hater," but a longtime fan. Sometimes you have blowout years where everything goes right (E3 2006) sometimes you have disasters (E3 2008). Never assume you know what's coming, and you'll never be disappointed.
 
#50
Honestly, the worst thing anyone who is unhappy with the 2018 lineup can do is to assume that since this year was light, next year will be packed to make up for it. Experience tells me that down that road lies disappointment, and "it just makes sense" is about the worst argument you can make for predicting Nintendo's next move. Does Nintendo need to get their act together and start securing more exclusives? Of course, but that doesn't mean they will. For better and for worse, Nintendo gonna Nintendo.
This is what m afraid of with my 1)-point. Fire Emblem and Yoshi moved to early 2019. Ok.
Question: What did you have planned to release there BEFORE the delay of those two 2018-titles?!

That's the issue. Maybe Nintendo's gonna announce more Q1-titles, but judging from experience they'll just treat FE and Yoshi as THE regular Q1-lineup, holding back whatever was previously planned for Q1. And that sucks.

Sigh
What's so frustrating is that there ARE big, ambitious games coming for Switch. We know about SMT5, MonolithSoft's action-rpg, another Zelda is likely, Pokemon, but they're all far in the future. Personally I'm not happy about picking Metroid and Bayonetta 3 as big 2019-releases. Bayonetta is niche per design, and Metroid has never been a game with much longevity. I want long-lasting adventures :(