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News CD PROJEKT RED BOSS LIKES TWEETS CRITICISING SONY FOR REMOVING CYBERPUNK 2077

ethomaz

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I laugh at people acting like this is the first broken game ever released.
First time a broken game has massive refunds without limitation and it is delisted on store.

That open precedent to any broken game in the future suffer the same actions.

Some people live in the past... others follow a better a future.
What happened in the past means nothing to what happened now and will happen in the future.
 
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Elios83

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Jun 30, 2004
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Are you saying Sony DOES allow refunds on digital if it's been played 2hrs or less? If so, how is their refund policy any different than Xbox or Steam? And why is everyone bitching about Sony's refund policies?

The only experience I've ever had with PS Store was buying TLOU-R with $10 off coupon I got as a new PS4 owner. Great deal, went smoothly no complaints. All the bad things I've heard about Sony's refund policies are 2nd hand and possibly fanboy fueled. I was under the impression they don't give refunds EVER, not even if you cancel a preorder before it's released. If this is a bunch of BS I'd like to know the truth.

Can someone please tell me without any fanboying exactly what the refund policy is on PlayStation and why it is considered so terrible if it's essentially the same as other platforms.

This shouldn't be obscure, there is an official page about it.
Straight from the source:

You can always get a refund on purchased games as long as you have not downloaded or streamed the game.
You can always get a refund on pre-orders before the release date.
The only way to get a refund on a game you have purchased and already downloaded/played is if the content is deemed faulty.

So basically Sony has not changed its policy just for Cyberpunk, they simply put the game in the faulty category and to avoid further mass refunds requests they pulled it from the store and that's it.


I remembered wrong about the 2h thing, it doesn't seem to be ever mentioned in the policy and it's not true that you have to beg the consumer service to get a refund if you have respected the rules, that's probably true as an exception if you have already started playing a game.
 
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Good. Hopefully they've learned no amount of groveling or apologizing with appease the mob. Steer into it and your core fanbase will love you more than ever.
 

FullMetalx117

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Jul 21, 2012
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Sony shouldn’t have removed the game. In a way they’re violating the free market - them showing their muscle on this move actually kind of shows game devs/publishers why maybe all reliance on a Sony/Xbox digital store future isn’t such a good idea.

I echo what many people have already said, broken games get released all the time. And to be honest, I really believe there’s a loud vocal minority complaining about this and ruining it for everyone. Is it hard to believe that your average person doesn’t really care about these issues? I doubt most will even go through the story, they just wanna drive around gta style.

The news regarding the issues plaguing this game are everywhere at this point. Yet it still tops the chart on Amazon and is the hottest game to get for Christmas. So clearly it’s still very popular.

FWIW Gears of War was a very broken game when it came out, don’t think the online lag ever got fixed. Yet playing that broken game online with friends back in the day is among the fondest memories I have related to gaming. We had a blast, there was actually a point where the brokenness made it a bit more interesting
 
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ArtHands

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Oct 14, 2012
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Steam only allow refund if you played less than 2 hours.

Somy is allowing refunds for all without restriction even if you finished or played 100 or more hours.

Ask Steam they want to have a game listed in their store that can be refunded like that.



After the refund your game will stop to work when you try to launch it after you first login on PSN.

You can abuse if you keep your console offline but the first time you log PSN it will stop to work.

Not true. The 2 hours rule is a guideline for automated refund. Their staffers will take manual look if you think you have a solid case that you can appeal. And that applies to all Steam games.

while Sony’s refund for Cyberpunk 2077 is an exception. They don’t provide refund if you already started download the game in general. You are disqualified even if you downloaded but didn’t launch it, let alone the 2 hours playtime refund window.
 

CatLady

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Jun 12, 2018
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This shouldn't be obscure, there is an official page about it.
Straight from the source:

You can always get a refund on purchased games as long as you have not downloaded or streamed the game.
You can always get a refund on pre-orders before the release date.
The only way to get a refund on a game you have purchased and already downloaded/played is if the content is deemed faulty.

So basically Sony has not changed its policy just for Cyberpunk, they simply put the game in the faulty category and to avoid further mass refunds requests they pulled it from the store and that's it.


I remembered wrong about the 2h thing, it doesn't seem to be ever mentioned in the policy and it's not true that you have to beg the consumer service to get a refund if you have respected the rules, that's probably true as an exception if you have already started playing a game.

Their refund policy is not great and not on a par with other platforms but nowhere near as bad as I had understood it. Thank you for a very good and unbiased explanation.
 

Clear

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Feb 2, 2009
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Sony clear mistake was not doing his own QA right and allowing the game to be sold at launch to begin... the game should never be listed on PS Store on the promises of day one patch.

It has to work on an "honor system" or else things would just never come out.

Games are not all the same, to do a proper QA pass where everything is checked thoroughly is very time consuming on a title like Cyberpunk where there's a lot of freedom and variation compared to shorter and/or more linear titles.

I mean noone has unlimited resources to perform these checks and they need to be done for every title big and small, so if the cert pipeline got log-jammed by having to spend man-months checking repeated submissions for a single high-maintenance title the whole platform and everyone else publishing on it would suffer.

Its not a simple thing to manage, so its always has to be the provider bearing the weight of responsibility for primary QA with Cert existing to cover the platform holder's needs to maintain QOS on its end by ensuring consistency and compliance with its checklist requirements.

In simple terms, Cert's job is purely to safeguard platform integrity, not the performance quality of any submitted item. Their role is to look after the "big picture", the general experience per user/console. Cert are traffic cops, they stop and check. The real detective work has to be handled by the software provider.
 
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ToadMan

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Dec 2, 2018
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I laugh at people acting like this is the first broken game ever released.

In 7 years of PS4 usage I had perhaps one or two times where a game crashed to Home Screen.

This game crashed to the Home Screen about 4 times an hour on average.

It’s an embarrassment and yes it is the worst game I’ve heard of. Well deserved to be pulled.

Sony shouldn’t have removed the game. In a way they’re violating the free market -

Sony are saving this game by pulling it from the store.

The open refund policy makes it basically a demo of the whole game if people want to suffer through it.
 
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ShadowWolf712

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Sony shouldn’t have removed the game. In a way they’re violating the free market
"Your refusal to carry this item in your store is in violation of the Free Market!" he said without a trace of irony...

Their ability to choose to stop selling an item at any time they deem necessary is actually a free market in action, broski. No store can be FORCED to carry specific items in a free market either. And thus, if people want Cyberpunk, they will have to go somewhere else or buy a disc copy.

This is literally the Free Market in action.
 
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Clear

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Hard crashes get logged and sent to Sony, so if the game is super-unstable they will have hard evidence that this is in fact the case. For all we know the sheer volume of these reports may have surpassed some mandated limit for where the need for global action gets flagged.
 

FullMetalx117

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"Your refusal to carry this item in your store is in violation of the Free Market!" he said without a trace of irony...

Their ability to choose to stop selling an item at any time they deem necessary is actually a free market in action, broski. No store can be FORCED to carry specific items in a free market either. And thus, if people want Cyberpunk, they will have to go somewhere else or buy a disc copy.

This is literally the Free Market in action.

Sure, but it’s the same type of free market akin to the apple store. I’m sure you’ll point to the TOS or whatever but this is a bad precedent to set and may result in some long term damage - will devs be hesitant to release anything knowing they’re at Sony’s mercy, more delays in the future, more ambitious games turned away for something safe and has tons of battle tested code already?

You have a point though, people can buy the disc version still if they really wanted it
 

ShadowWolf712

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Sure, but it’s the same type of free market akin to the apple store. I’m sure you’ll point to the TOS or whatever but this is a bad precedent to set and may result in some long term damage - will devs be hesitant to release anything knowing they’re at Sony’s mercy, more delays in the future, more ambitious games turned away for something safe and has tons of battle tested code already?

You have a point though, people can buy the disc version still if they really wanted it
They're at everyone's mercy on any and every store. That's the right of the store owner. You are not entitled to have your product sold somewhere simply because it exists, my guy.

And this could have been avoided had they not lied and thus retroactively failed certification. They promised the game would be in a playable state with the Day 1 patch. It wasn't. Hell, that's why they even delayed the game after going gold, to have it able to pass certification and be sold on the store. They even got a grace period to fix things. Still didn't. And thus, they were yanked until they can prove their game is functional and re-submit it for certification.

Frankly, MORE storefronts need to do this with busted games. The industry is way too cool with releasing busted products with the promise of "fixing" it later.
 

Tallahassee

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Jun 12, 2020
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Have you guys noticed that the only argument used by the CDPR defense force is based on whataboutism?
What about Anthem
What about NMS
What about Fallout 76


I mean, if your game needs to be compared to these to look a little better then your game sucks.
We've come a long way from "Dude, Witcher 3 was awesome, Cyberpunk will be as good as Witcher 3 was" to "Cyberpunk is better than Fallout 76, they don't deserve it"

it's how apologists cope.
I also love the hypocrisy of Steam's fanbase, game sits at almost 80% positive because CDPR. quite opposite if it was released by EA or Ubisoft or Bethesda...
 

Aguero9320

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Aug 20, 2014
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Two good things should come out of this - Cyberpunk will be great when it’s finished, and Sony will be forced to fix their shit store refund policy.

Sony must be paying some of these people to fight their battles for them, time and time again, right? It can’t just be blind loyalty?
 

Royal-Slime

Banned
Dec 14, 2020
188
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The tweets are right. It is blowed up by the media to gain clicks and to sink the game because it's not made for Americans... or rather, it's not made primarily for Americans. It's a Polish game. The same way Witcher 3 didn't adhere to American fantasy standards. Cyberpunk 2077 is essentially a blockbuster for Europeans the same way Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are primarily intended for Japanese people.


Sony doesn't care, though. They could have removed the game from the store immediately and offer pre-order refunds until it is fixed. Day one patch is not an excuse because all it takes is to have one person... play the game before the patch is greenlight. CDPR simply said "go to Sony because it's their platform", they can't refund the game themselves because that's not how it works - money went to PSN.


It is. I remember trying to get a refund for them because the content would not work. Sony is absolutely terrible with their customer service and refunds. I've had better luck with Origin and Uplay customer service than Sony.
Sorry for quoting my own message. Just wanted to add that the very same thing happened to Kingdom Come: Deliverance. A fantastic RPG made by Mafia 1 and 2 devs. It didn't try to cater to the American audience, it was aimed at Europeans and there you have it - a low score on Metacritic, reviewers who were clearly incompetent to review it, so much that none (!!!) of the reviews I've seen ever mentioned how fantastic and true to life the architecture, visuals are in the game. Kingdom Come has some of the best settings I've seen in a game, absolutely hand-crafted locations, maybe even better than what Bethesda can do. And the actual game itself is essentially what Morrowind would have been if it came out in modern times.
 
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ShadowWolf712

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Sorry for quoting my own message. Just wanted to add that the very same thing happened to Kingdom Come: Deliverance. A fantastic RPG made by Mafia 1 and 2 devs. It didn't try to cater to the American audience, it was aimed at Europeans and there you have it - a low score on Metacritic, reviewers who were clearly incompetent to review it, so much that none (!!!) of the reviews I've seen ever mentioned how fantastic and true to life the architecture, visuals are in the game. Kingdom Come has some of the best settings I've seen in a game, absolutely hand-crafted locations, maybe even better than what Bethesda can do. And the actual game itself is essentially what Morrowind would have been if it came out in modern times.
Cyberpunk has demonstrable game-breaking (and save-corrupting) glitches and got 10/10 scores despite that, but sure, it's because "much Americuns r dum".

Nice Kojima-ing there, guys.
 
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ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
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Sony shouldn’t have removed the game. In a way they’re violating the free market - them showing their muscle on this move actually kind of shows game devs/publishers why maybe all reliance on a Sony/Xbox digital store future isn’t such a good idea.

I echo what many people have already said, broken games get released all the time. And to be honest, I really believe there’s a loud vocal minority complaining about this and ruining it for everyone. Is it hard to believe that your average person doesn’t really care about these issues? I doubt most will even go through the story, they just wanna drive around gta style.

The news regarding the issues plaguing this game are everywhere at this point. Yet it still tops the chart on Amazon and is the hottest game to get for Christmas. So clearly it’s still very popular.

FWIW Gears of War was a very broken game when it came out, don’t think the online lag ever got fixed. Yet playing that broken game online with friends back in the day is among the fondest memories I have related to gaming. We had a blast, there was actually a point where the brokenness made it a bit more interesting
The opposite.

Free market means Sony can sell what they want when they want... including delisting the item in their store.

That is Free Market.
 
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ShadowWolf712

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Have you guys noticed that the only argument used by the CDPR defense force is based on whataboutism?
What about Anthem
What about NMS
What about Fallout 76


I mean, if your game needs to be compared to these to look a little better then your game sucks.
We've come a long way from "Dude, Witcher 3 was awesome, Cyberpunk will be as good as Witcher 3 was" to "Cyberpunk is better than Fallout 76, they don't deserve it"
NMS was also at least functional, and Anthem & 76 at least had the whole "live service" plausible deniability with bugs (could be servers, connections, etc) which is how they ducked it.

This was a single-player game and they somehow managed more, and worse, bugs than a Bethesda title. Impressive.
 

Shrap

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Sounds a little low considering how well the game runs on PC?
Besides the countless bugs and glitches, yeah. Oh and it crashes on PC too and has that 8mb save file game breaker. Not to mention the braindead AI, the police that spawn behind you, the teleporting cars in races and countless missing features.

The game is a mess. Even on PC.
 

ethomaz

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Sure, but it’s the same type of free market akin to the apple store. I’m sure you’ll point to the TOS or whatever but this is a bad precedent to set and may result in some long term damage - will devs be hesitant to release anything knowing they’re at Sony’s mercy, more delays in the future, more ambitious games turned away for something safe and has tons of battle tested code already?

You have a point though, people can buy the disc version still if they really wanted it
You are not suppose to sell your product in all places just because you want... the places you want to sell you need to accept the retail (or store) rules.

Are are free to choose to accept these rules or sell in another place that you accept the rules.

That is free market.
 
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ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
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Besides the countless bugs and glitches, yeah. Oh and it crashes on PC too and has that 8mb save file game breaker. Not to mention the braindead AI, the police that spawn behind you, the teleporting cars in races and countless missing features.

The game is a mess. Even on PC.
That is something I can’t understand.

The game is a mess on PC but because it is way better than console parts it is a new masterpiece.

Seems like PCMR standard is really low.
 

sainraja

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Bookmarking this so we can this conversation again next time a EA/Bethesda bugfest is released - and it will happen, sooner or later - and miraculously Sony does not pull the game from the PS Store after weeks of memory leaks, crashes and assorted hardware problems.

Please.

You are ignoring multiple factors that lead to the game being de-listed and if I am to speak the same language as you are right now then to answer your question, the reason it didn't happen with the games you listed is because the developer of those games did not try to direct consumers to Sony & Microsoft for refunds; basically, they did nothing and offered nothing. Now just because Sony's refund policy on digital games can be better does not excuse CD Projekt Red releasing a game in a buggy state, then trying to take the high road offering refunds (knowing full well that they don't control that so it's basically an 'empty' promise or offer) which just looks bad on them.

They could have actually tried to work something out with Sony & Microsoft first, making the process of getting refunds easier for people who bought the game. They basically messed up in how they communicated EVERYTHING that has to do with this game which is the reason why they are being criticized as they are.

GOG.com has the best return policy (and I know it is run by CD Projekt Red.) I will be getting Cyberpunk again when it is in a more finished state and I like the developer myself but let's not try to mix things up here.
 
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Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Apr 13, 2020
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LOL

Sign a marketing deal with MS, include more features on Xbox even though your last game sold 2x more on PlayStation, hide the console versions from reviews, release a broken mess that should be labeled as “early access”, tell customers to ask Sony for refunds and then get upset at Sony because they care more about what their customers think than they do about a broken game.

Get fucked
 
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Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Apr 13, 2020
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That is something I can’t understand.

The game is a mess on PC but because it is way better than console parts it is a new masterpiece.

Seems like PCMR standard is really low.

More like the game took the job of being “the PC game” of the year and so you have PC gamers defending this shit show because at least they can turn RTX on.
 

vpance

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That is something I can’t understand.

The game is a mess on PC but because it is way better than console parts it is a new masterpiece.

Seems like PCMR standard is really low.

It is. CDPR and PCMR were meant for each other.
 

ShadowWolf712

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That is something I can’t understand.

The game is a mess on PC but because it is way better than console parts it is a new masterpiece.

Seems like PCMR standard is really low.
They have the "we'll fix it with mods if they don't" mentality. To be fair, they HAVE fixed a lot of ports or games that were otherwise broken, but I just can't see why they act as if it's almost an acceptable practice at this point.
 
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MrS

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It's the fault of everybody except CDPR it would seem. They've lashed out at the people who've bought the game ("those not willing to wait for patches"), they're lashing out at Sony. It's an absolutely pathetic lack of accountability and personal responsibility. They need to do what Sean Murray did, shut the fuck up, knuckle down, fix the issues then make the game the best it can be because this shitshow is squarely, 100% on them. It's the only way they can fix this.
 
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ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
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They have the "we'll fix it with mods if they don't" mentality. To be fair, they HAVE fixed a lot of ports or games that were otherwise broken, but I just can't see why they act as if it's almost an acceptable practice at this point.
I appreciate that... the power the community has to fix and add things to their games on PC.

But the game should not need to be fixed by the community... community can change and add more things they wants... that is what mod means... not fix games issues... the developer should do that.
 
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assurdum

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Have quality control or a refund system. You can’t have it both ways. Acting the victim because “We just sell the games here” and at the same time refusing refunds because “It is our policy” is a stupid defence.

Again, have quality control on what is sold on the store beyond the “Oh it is a slide show but don’t worry it is not going to brick your system, we checked” oh wow thank you Sony.
They practically said to Sony and MS they would have fixed everything with the first day patch....
 

S0ULZB0URNE

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Lol, these same people will be getting a free patch for the Witcher 3 after how many years for next gen consoles and not have any patience to wait for patches for games they were foaming at the mouth to get their hands on. This is why I don't buy shit Day 1. It curbs my expectations. Watch next year these same people will be like OMG GOTYYYY.

This is No Man's Sky all over again.
NMS took years to fix.
 

Shakka43

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Not a single major retailer stopped carrying Sony TVs after their 2005 and 2011 recalls. Not one.
Where are you trying to get at? Retailers stopped selling just the faulty models as they were recalled, Did Sony stop selling The Witcher 3 because of Cyberpunk's troubles? No.
 
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Eric187

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Dear Sony how about you fix your shit first before acting so high and mighty. Shows how hypocritical a company like this can be. You ever apologize to us for the PS5 preorder fiasco? Or how about the lack of PS5 consoles? I truly wish rockstar would release GTA6 in a slightly broken state and see if you’d have the balls to do this. Not defending CDPR but I’ve seen a lot worse from Bethesda but guess what they won’t be releasing games of your consoles anymore so have fun with that one. Maybe after this CDPR will release the next Witcher on PC and Xbox only oh yea I’m sure us Sony fanboys are gonna be happy with that.
 

Megatron

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For a company that announce themselves as "For The Players" they have many anti consumer ways about them for sure, hopefully this experience traumatises Jim Ryan into rethinking their policies.
Because that’s just marketing fluff. Sony is #fortheshareholders just like every other major company.
 

Klayzer

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Irrational hate for Sony doing what's best for themselves and their customer base. Funny how CDPR has risen to somehow become an unofficial Microsoft studio for some.

Console war bs and silly politics are at play, even when CDPR is 100% at fault for deceiving and releasing a broken product on last gen consoles. Time to take an extended break from this place, to much partisan crap.
 
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Eric187

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Irrational hate for Sony doing what's best for themselves and their customer base. Funny how CDPR has risen to somehow become an unofficial Microsoft studio for some.

Console war bs and silly politics are at play, even when CDPR is 100% at fault for deceiving and releasing a broken product on last gen consoles. Time to take an extended break from this place, to much partisan crap.
Then don’t complain when the Witcher 4 is pc and Xbox exclusive
 

Aguero9320

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Besides the countless bugs and glitches, yeah. Oh and it crashes on PC too and has that 8mb save file game breaker. Not to mention the braindead AI, the police that spawn behind you, the teleporting cars in races and countless missing features.

The game is a mess. Even on PC.

Reviewers played the PC version. Seemed to get mostly 9s and tens even before any patches.

Game is not shit (just some versions), no matter how much some want it to burn and die for some reason.
 

davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
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Given that it was this very thread that brought this to my attention, I figured I'd post this here. And hell, it may have been old news to y'all but I didn't know that the game director and the CEO were the SAME PERSON!!! THAT is fucking TNT in a room filled with matches.

 

Yselacrey00

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Don't say that, the Sony army will come after you.

CD Projekt Red has had the most generous refund policy in gaming for about 10 years now but people frankly believe that Sony is looking out for the "players' interest", even though in the very recent past they left games that either (1) bricked the console or (2) caused massive overheating issues up for sale on their storefront with not a care in the world.



So why did they not do this with.. um... Anthem?

Please, they simply don't want to change their asinine refund policy. It has nothing to do with the game's quality.

Yes, CDPR is lying again. Sony removed the game because they don't wanna give refunds and CDPR's statement caught them off guard, so instead they decided to remove the game all together. The conversation was one sided, Sony told them they would give the refunds but they also would delist the game, it wasn't an agreement between the two. That's why the game is still available to buy on xbox, gog and everywhere else.
 

Hawk269

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You have a point though, people can buy the disc version still if they really wanted it

Unless you bought a Digital PS5...then you are screwed and have no way to play the game. A good friend is in this position and is very upset. He came over and played it on my PS5, loved it and a few days later was able to score a Digital Edition. Sony pulled the game 4 hours before he got his unit and now has no way to buy the game.
 

Shelookdlvl18

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While CDPR should certainly be taken to task for releasing a game in such a horrible state. It's blown up into an even bigger story than that since then.

While releasing broken games isn't common. It's not like this hasn't happened before. Every so often a game gets released that's an absolute shit show, and that should've been delayed. It happens.

If you remove CDPR from this equation, and replace them with a blank dev and game. The results would be different, but not by much. Most differences being in social media statements post release.

However, if you remove Sony from the equation. The difference is night and day. This is evident because while the game was just as broken on Xbox... MS's return policies made the whole thing a problem that could be easily worked through. It's only Sony's anti consumer return policy that makes this whole thing become the huge ordeal it has become.

That being said. Sony's crap return policy has been well known by the vast amount of it's users for quite awhile now. It's not as if Sony suddenly made it up. There's been plenty of fans who've attempted to defend it for years now.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.