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Change my mind: What is so great about living in a liberal stronghold?

JordanN

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This thread isn't meant to be an echo chamber. In fact, I do want to hear voices from the other side about this.

I want to know, what exactly makes life living in these different locales on earth that by and far large, vote Liberal/Left by a SIGNIFICANT margin.

Whether this is Toronto, Vancouver, New York City, San Francisco, Seattle, what all these cities have in common, is that they're the life and blood of keeping Leftism alive.

Now sure, one thing that immediately comes to mind is wealth. There's no denying that when I look these cities, they seem to be the playground for adult millionaires.

But I have other problems with these cities that once again, makes me question how am I actually suppose to feel happy living there for the rest of my life. Such as...

General craziness.

To be fair, cities tend to have a lot more people, so there will be bound to be crazies who slip through the crack. But at the same time, how come it's mostly liberal strongholds is where I see the above videos becoming more and more common place? Extreme homelessness, drug addicts, these people follow these places wherever left-wing politics just happen to be the norm.

Expensive as fuck.


Remember how I called Liberal strongholds "the millionaire's playground"? Well yeah, I wasn't making this up. Again, these places tend to have a lot more people, so maybe there's justification that this type of competition has lead to some jacked up prices?

But the ironic thing is if it's left-wing politics that dominate the city, why is it only the really rich who benefit from these places? Does the guy working a 30k job a year really feel like the government is going to help him buy a $2.3 million dog house seen in the above?

Meanwhile, if I do actually want to find an affordable place to live, it seems like almost every area that leans more Conservatives has houses for the working man or woman.



$270,00 for a home in Calgary. Alberta just happens to vote all Conservative last election.


Social Justice FREAKOUTS


Ok, now here's something you wont ever see in even a Centrist, Moderate or Conservative area. The constant fight for "diversity and equality" literally takes place a strangehold in every day life. And while some may think they're just trying to do good eh, it gets really annoying when it turns into outright banning or shaming of other political ideas you don't agree with. Or in the above image, they just hate chicken.

No Guns



If I'm going to be surrounded by a million people who are making $14 an hour, can I at least have a firearm to protect myself? I'm curious, are there any heavily liberal cities on earth, that understand the need for self defense? Why disarm people, when cities are exactly the perfect target for any invading army to come and enslave the populace?


Not even Liberals want to stay there.




It seems like the end game of voting for left-wing politics also seems to end up with many people leaving them? This raises the question again of how are all these liberal cities suppose to be sustainable, especially when there still exists an extreme wealth gap.
 
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TindalosPup

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I feel like the appeal to live in areas like this for non millionaires would be the benefits provided in these areas: special treatment and sympathy for the sjw's and the lower income populace. Free clinics/healthcare/ "rehab", possible free housing, welfare, all that groovy crap that comes with the left appeal to these groups. The left will do the work for them there, hence they flock

You either have all the money or next to none of your own in these kinds of areas and you work for the millionaires, most (if not all) bigger cities are designed that way
 

Sign

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I feel like the appeal to live in areas like this for non millionaires would be the benefits provided in these areas: special treatment and sympathy for the sjw's and the lower income populace. Free clinics/healthcare/ "rehab", possible free housing, welfare, all that groovy crap that comes with the left appeal to these groups. The left will do the work for them there, hence they flock

You either have all the money or next to none of your own in these kinds of areas and you work for the millionaires, most (if not all) bigger cities are designed that way
"You get to be a slave!"
 

haxan7

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I’m stuck in one myself. I’ve been considering moving 20ish miles away to live in a more rural, less crowded area, but the commute would be a nightmare. I don’t see myself being able to leave any time soon.

the pros are that it’s easier to make money in them. I know an older couple who I consider very admirable who ground it out in liberal cities for a couple decades then moved far away when they got near retirement.
 
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Digital Gex

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Feb 20, 2019
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This thread doesn't read like it's inviting an open-discussion, it reads like you are trying to call out ideology you don't agree with and your mind is already made up. At best you'll cause more CreoFero's to join the site or accounts to come out of hibernation to invade the politics board.

When Crowder does it on YouTube he presents it in an open-fashion so a discussion is possible, then he counters the opposing viewpoint piece by piece with facts and information while the other side usually doesn't. It also doesn't help that nearly all the current users on this board who don't agree with your OP all hate discussion and want to shut it down immediately.
 

autoduelist

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I've lived in big cities most of my life. NYC was a huge chunk of that.

I moved there from another big city because I wanted the challenge and in part for career/education. Did really well for myself. I also had insomnia at the time, so spent many a night wandering the city, or at bars/clubs in a relatively hedonistic lifestyle. I wasn't the biggest drinker [mostly quit after seeing a friend self destruct during college], but I definitely appreciated the nightlife. There is a feeling in NYC that if you can survive there, you can survive anywhere [and i think there is something to that]. You are in a hub of counter culture, tons of shows of all your favorite bands, no matter what obscure sub-genre you are into.

In retrospect, i wish i had spent a lot of that energy pursuing other things. I'm glad i escaped the gravity of nyc... which i did because one day i woke up and realized i was sick to death of the stink, the grime, and the general aggressiveness. In NYC rude clerks are a given - even a plus, in record stores, or a place like Kim's video.

But to directly answer your question... i think that's it. I've been jumped, I've been mugged multiple times [they have never gotten anything off me, though]. I've watched people shit themselves on the subway. And when you are 20something and in the middle of it all, it feels more like a badge of honor that these things barely register than it does a condemnation of the events themselves, or of the city. That is, you don't really want NYC to change, because that grime defines the city. There was a hell of a lot of condemnation of Giuliani's successful attempt to clean up the city. Many people did not want it 'fixed'. We didn't want more police, or corporate interests overtaking Times Square.

I'm glad i left. Now my new city is struggling with insane leftist idiocy, and i'm watching a clean, happy city turn into a filthy, angry one. My wife and i discuss moving even further out, getting some land, but it's difficult because we both know we are city, used to that tightly packed life.
 
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growing up in NYC - this new progressive push is kind of new... i grew up in 20 years of Republican mayoral leadership (i guess you can argue Bloomberg was really a RINO).. but times were much better.. neighborhoods had personality and identity.. now all these gentrified hoods all look the same with all the same transplants .. to answer your question..i think people flock because of jobs - that’s it .. they don’t come here because of a progressive slant.m, that’s just part of the package
 

Cybrwzrd

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The world needs progressives and conservatives. The problem is, the modern 'progressives" as they call themselves are not about progress. They are about regress. There are scant few actual progressives in the world, especially in politics. Actual improvement is not profitable, nor is it good for long term employment. If we cured cancer tomorrow, there would be a lot of Doctors out of a job, for example. The current batch of "progressives" need to create problems to deal with, so they have a job.

Most of the progressive cities you speak of are trying to regress to a different era. It is why you see the wealthy "privileged" types flocking to the ideology. They want an underclass to serve them, and they don't want others to be free to pursue anything but their own ideals of happiness. They have decided that they are most fit to rule, and desire a serfdom to cater to them. That is the underlying ideal of globalism and communism. The elites get to become infinitely wealthy, and everyone else has to take care of them and make their narcissistic dreams come true. The world was a lot better for the elites when they held all the cards.
 
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JordanN

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This thread doesn't read like it's inviting an open-discussion, it reads like you are trying to call out ideology you don't agree with and your mind is already made up. At best you'll cause more CreoFero's to join the site or accounts to come out of hibernation to invade the politics board.

When Crowder does it on YouTube he presents it in an open-fashion so a discussion is possible, then he counters the opposing viewpoint piece by piece with facts and information while the other side usually doesn't. It also doesn't help that nearly all the current users on this board who don't agree with your OP all hate discussion and want to shut it down immediately.
I will listen to any counter-arguments if they exist.

My OP reads like a "call out" but that's because I am looking for strong rebuttals for what feels like a miserable outcome.

Why should I feel happy to pay a million dollars for a house? Why should I feel happy to have my guns taken away when crime rate in liberal cities are on the rise? Why should I be barred from eating at Chik Fil A because the liberal majority thinks they're homophobic?

These are hard hitting facts I want answers to if they exist. I would do the same if I had to argue against a Conservative. Facts can only be countered with other facts. It's neutral.
 
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TindalosPup

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My wife and i discuss moving even further out, getting some land, but it's difficult because we both know we are city, used to that tight life.
I was born and raised city, I shared that feeling before I actually moved to the middle-of-nowhere I live now, city life was all I knew (didn't need a license to get around, so I never really bothered until I moved). Have you guys taken a weekend at a rural bed and breakfast somewhere near by? That would give you an idea of the decompression and the peace you get at night, or of anything that might deter you from moving before taking the step (the newfound darkness and silence can be a bit jarring).
 
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Vicetrailia

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So look at it this way.

Cities = More people = More of everything imaginable.

So if you're a gay man, you're gonna have communities and people who accept you within arms reach. I've known quite the many gay men who have left the anti-gay small town culture that I grew up i, and moved to the city to find acceptance.

Cities also = High housing costs, higher taxes, less security, less space.

So there are pros and cons. Suburbs are where it's at if you want a family. Leave the cities to the singles and Rich folk.
 
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brap’s dad

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I'm not going to change your mind because I don't get it either.

I live in a big-but-not-too-big city in Australia in a $600k 220 sqm (~2400 sqft) townhouse that is 5 km (~3 mi) from the CBD/Downtown area. The equivalent place in Sydney or Melbourne would cost me >$2 m. All of the perks of those cities like good food and coffee we also have here in abundance but we don't have anywhere near the same level of cultural diversity (aka social tension)/mental illness/homelessness problems. The city is so big that I will never explore all of it in my lifetime and the turnover rate of restaurants and cafes is high enough that there's always something new to try. Why would I want to pay more than triple to live in a bigger city with all the additional problems that I don't have here?
 

Vicetrailia

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I'm not going to change your mind because I don't get it either.

I live in a big-but-not-too-big city in Australia in a $600k 220 sqm (~2400 sqft) townhouse that is 5 km (~3 mi) from the CBD/Downtown area. The equivalent place in Sydney or Melbourne would cost me >$2 m. All of the perks of those cities like good food and coffee we also have here in abundance but we don't have anywhere near the same level of cultural diversity (aka social tension)/mental illness/homelessness problems. The city is so big that I will never explore all of it in my lifetime and the turnover rate of restaurants and cafes is high enough that there's always something new to try. Why would I want to pay more than triple to live in a bigger city with all the additional problems that I don't have here?
You probably still live in a liberal leaning city.
 
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brap’s dad

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That doesn't tell me much. What city do you live in? Or better yet, what's the population.
Ease up, stalker.

My state is equivalent to Alberta in Canada in that we do most of the economic heavy lifting of natural resources while getting sneered at and called names by all the privileged elitist lefties that we are propping up in the more populous cities like Sydney and Melbourne which are, respectively, Australia's financial hub and... actually, I don't really know what Melbourne provides besides hipsters, coffee, and male feminist state premiers with giant earlobes. At least Scopa Scopa 's state provides something useful like a booming food and wine industry.

 

HeresJohnny

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I grew up in SoCal and found out early on that it was contrary to everything the liberals preach: it was expensive, hard to make ends meet, hard to get around in without a vehicle, hard to own a home, school cost more -- life was just hard there. I moved to Phoenix and bought a house that cost me less each month than the rent in my 2 bed 1 bath condo did in Cali. I also was able to get to work in less than 20 minutes each day, even though I lived further away than I did from my job in California. Gas cost less, too. Everything did.

Imo, there's nothing great about living in California, which kind of defines Liberalism. I left there almost 30 years ago and have never looked back.
 
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oagboghi2

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I can't speak for NYC, but for San Francisco it is easy. It's the jobs. The number of start ups and tech jobs in San Francisco are crazy, and they pay the best. It's also where a lot of the most talented, forward-thinking engineers are. People will put with anything if it means they get that that bay area wage, or jump onto the next big start up

I know, not living in SF means I'm sacrificing lifetime earnings everyday

My state is equivalent to Alberta in Canada in that we do most of the economic heavy lifting of natural resources while getting sneered at and called names by all the privileged elitist lefties that we are propping up in the more populous cities like Sydney and Melbourne which are, respectively, Australia's financial hub and... actually, I don't really know what Melbourne provides besides hipsters, coffee, and male feminist state premiers with giant earlobes. At least Scopa Scopa 's state provides something useful like a booming food and wine industry.
It's odd how many non-Australians think they know more about the country than people who live there.
 
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Mohonky

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I'm not going to change your mind because I don't get it either.

I live in a big-but-not-too-big city in Australia in a $600k 220 sqm (~2400 sqft) townhouse that is 5 km (~3 mi) from the CBD/Downtown area. The equivalent place in Sydney or Melbourne would cost me >$2 m. All of the perks of those cities like good food and coffee we also have here in abundance but we don't have anywhere near the same level of cultural diversity (aka social tension)/mental illness/homelessness problems. The city is so big that I will never explore all of it in my lifetime and the turnover rate of restaurants and cafes is high enough that there's always something new to try. Why would I want to pay more than triple to live in a bigger city with all the additional problems that I don't have here?
Where do you live?

I lived in Brisbane for 20 something years, damn its a busy place now.

Moved out to T-Bar, much nicer for me personally. Quiet without being out nowhere
 
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btgorman

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Job opportunities. That about sums it up for me.

I’d live in a place like that for awhile (and save some money) if the pay was real good.
 
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Zefah

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Generally more opportunities and higher paying jobs. You can often live outside of the city for more affordable housing while reaping the benefits of a really good paying job.

Also, they can be good fun when you're young and a student assuming you have some money. Limitless options for good food and entertainment often within walking distance.
 
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Whitesnake

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Dunno. Never lived in one.

I do occasionally have drive through the suburbs and outskirts of Detroit to get to DTW because it’s the closest airport that can do flights to the other side of the country. The good bits seem overpriced. The bad bits are chernobyl-esque. I’ve seen pictures of areas of the city proper that look like they’re from a warzone.

I don’t think I’d like to live there.
 

brap’s dad

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Where do you live?

I lived in Brisbane for 20 something years, damn its a busy place now.

Moved out to T-Bar, much nicer for me personally. Quiet without being out nowhere
Yeah Brissie.

It’s busy but not too busy. I do like the good food and coffee that are almost exclusive to the big cities, but Brissie has enough of that without all of the accompanying bullshit of Sydney and Melbourne. The housing is very affordable here too.
 

rykomatsu

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I want to know, what exactly makes life living in these different locales on earth that by and far large, vote Liberal/Left by a SIGNIFICANT margin.
  • Increased population density results in increased exposure to "social injustices" by virtue of basic statistics
  • Legislators write tax proposals in ways which pull at people's fee fees
  • Citizens vote for "feel good" laws without understanding how taxes work
  • New taxes pass, citizens Pat themselves on their back
  • Taxes go to general fund, so not guaranteed to be used for the proposed bill, and "social injustices" remain
  • Repeat everything above in a never ending cycle
I would say that the crux of the problem that most of the taxes being taken to try to solve these problems are being diverted to the general fund - at this point taxes are just used for other "more pressing" needs. Most of my friends don't even understand the concept of a general fund, let alone the existence of them. So they make the assumption that their vote went to providing for those in need, when in reality it doesn't. Folks I mention this to are either oblivious ("their" politicians can do no wrong), or get pissed and red pilled.

But yeah, tl,dr: Emotional knee jerk reaction of voting for measures that are supposed to help those in need, those taxes going to general fund, people not realizing this is happening, and the cycle repeating itself.
 

I_D

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Is it really that complicated? It seems pretty straight-forward to me.


Living in a a dense (city) environment gives you access to more people than your average person has access to.
You get to see the rich, the poor, the middle-class, and anybody in between.

It opens you up to cultures you've never considered. It opens you up to classes you've never considered. It opens you up to people, in general, you've never considered.
It allows you to witness every single aspect of people: From the craziest thing you could ever dream of, to the most mundane of mundane.

After you've experienced it for a while, you realize that all people are just out there, living their lives, trying to get by. None of the nonsense matters. Anything you've ever stressed about, fretted about, worried about, etc. is all just white noise to the people around you. The only way to improve life is to improve it for the average person. Focusing on one specific group or another doesn't matter, because nobody gives a shit about specific groups, because they're a niche; that's what makes them specific. Around that many people, you get to the core of humanity, to the core of what makes a person a person: All people care about is themselves (and their very-close relatives). And that's a good thing. because you are a member of that group.

We are all average. We're as average as average gets. And no matter which party you like or vote for, nothing will change that. Sure, you can have ideals and morals and creeds, and whatever else matters inside of your mentality. But when you witness thousands of human beings every day, going about their lives, and not giving even the slightest of fucks about you, it starts to change your mentality. You start to realize that anything you think, or say, or do, or whatever else, doesn't matter. And you're just an average person.

No matter how much you want to vote conservative, or republican, or liberal, or democratic [And those are definitely NOT redundant; and shame on you if you disagree], or anywhere in the middle; none of that matters. In order to make your own life better, you have to vote for the average person; because that's what you are. There is not a single person you've met in your entire life who is not an average human. As such, you decide to vote for whatever will benefit the average.

And thus, you vote liberal. You vote to eliminate the class system, and the wealth system, and whatever other system; and you try to distribute everything equally.

It might not be fair. Hell, it's definitely not fair. But it benefits you, personally, so you do it. And in a perfect world, it would be the perfect system.
The world isn't perfect, of course, and obviously it won't work as a long-term plan; but that doesn't matter. It benefits you today and tomorrow, so it's good enough.
 
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JordanN and I are both from Toronto area, so we've seen it all.

And ya, just like every other big city, you got a wide split..... rich fuckers with high priced homes, a bunch of rat racers in the middle striving for that upper middle echelon of living, then the poor people who work at Burger King, can afford to rent a shitty apartment and over time get pressured with gentrified neighbourhoods as the real estate developers coax the city to give them a permit to transform a low end block into condos. So Burger King dude has to find another place at some point because there's no way he can afford to buy a $500,000 condo for a 1 bedroom/1 bathroom 600 sq ft place that doesn't even include the $60,000 parking spot fee.

The people with money:

- Live downtown in the nice condos, nice areas like Rosedale, or gentrified places
- Move to the burbs to get away

The poor people/homeless:

- Live in whatever place can offer rent for cheap
- Hang out downtown as that's the best place to beg for money (sheer numbers of of people passing by), and that's where the concentration of psych wards and shelters are

Probably just like any other big city.

One thing that is different here. I don't take the subway much anymore, but still do occasionally. There is no way our TTC is plastered with all that homeless/druggy San Fran stuff you see. Our subway stations are bland, but at least not crawling with stoned people
 
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LOL. 100% truth.

I'd say the best bang for your buck is all the shwarma and kebob places that popped up everywhere the past 15 or so years. And not so many, but still great all the Portuguese chicken restaurants.

$10 gets you a good meal.

And $50 can feed a whole family with leftovers to spare.
 
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oagboghi2

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Apr 15, 2018
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Is it really that complicated? It seems pretty straight-forward to me.


Living in a a dense (city) environment gives you access to more people than your average person has access to.
You get to see the rich, the poor, the middle-class, and anybody in between.

It opens you up to cultures you've never considered. It opens you up to classes you've never considered. It opens you up to people, in general, you've never considered.
It allows you to witness every single aspect of people: From the craziest thing you could ever dream of, to the most mundane of mundane.

After you've experienced it for a while, you realize that all people are just out there, living their lives, trying to get by. None of the nonsense matters. Anything you've ever stressed about, fretted about, worried about, etc. is all just white noise to the people around you. The only way to improve life is to improve it for the average person. Focusing on one specific group or another doesn't matter, because nobody gives a shit about specific groups, because they're a niche; that's what makes them specific. Around that many people, you get to the core of humanity, to the core of what makes a person a person: All people care about is themselves (and their very-close relatives). And that's a good thing. because you are a member of that group.

We are all average. We're as average as average gets. And no matter which party you like or vote for, nothing will change that. Sure, you can have ideals and morals and creeds, and whatever else matters inside of your mentality. But when you witness thousands of human beings every day, going about their lives, and not giving even the slightest of fucks about you, it starts to change your mentality. You start to realize that anything you think, or say, or do, or whatever else, doesn't matter. And you're just an average person.

No matter how much you want to vote conservative, or republican, or liberal, or democratic [And those are definitely NOT redundant; and shame on you if you disagree], or anywhere in the middle; none of that matters. In order to make your own life better, you have to vote for the average person; because that's what you are. There is not a single person you've met in your entire life who is not an average human. As such, you decide to vote for whatever will benefit the average.

And thus, you vote liberal. You vote to eliminate the class system, and the wealth system, and whatever other system; and you try to distribute everything equally.

It might not be fair. Hell, it's definitely not fair. But it benefits you, personally, so you do it. And in a perfect world, it would be the perfect system.
The world isn't perfect, of course, and obviously it won't work as a long-term plan; but that doesn't matter. It benefits you today and tomorrow, so it's good enough.
Don't think. Just vote liberal😂🙄
 

brap’s dad

Formerly 'matt404au'
Apr 25, 2009
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Is it really that complicated? It seems pretty straight-forward to me.


Living in a a dense (city) environment gives you access to more people than your average person has access to.
You get to see the rich, the poor, the middle-class, and anybody in between.

It opens you up to cultures you've never considered. It opens you up to classes you've never considered. It opens you up to people, in general, you've never considered.
It allows you to witness every single aspect of people: From the craziest thing you could ever dream of, to the most mundane of mundane.

After you've experienced it for a while, you realize that all people are just out there, living their lives, trying to get by. None of the nonsense matters. Anything you've ever stressed about, fretted about, worried about, etc. is all just white noise to the people around you. The only way to improve life is to improve it for the average person. Focusing on one specific group or another doesn't matter, because nobody gives a shit about specific groups, because they're a niche; that's what makes them specific. Around that many people, you get to the core of humanity, to the core of what makes a person a person: All people care about is themselves (and their very-close relatives). And that's a good thing. because you are a member of that group.

We are all average. We're as average as average gets. And no matter which party you like or vote for, nothing will change that. Sure, you can have ideals and morals and creeds, and whatever else matters inside of your mentality. But when you witness thousands of human beings every day, going about their lives, and not giving even the slightest of fucks about you, it starts to change your mentality. You start to realize that anything you think, or say, or do, or whatever else, doesn't matter. And you're just an average person.

No matter how much you want to vote conservative, or republican, or liberal, or democratic [And those are definitely NOT redundant; and shame on you if you disagree], or anywhere in the middle; none of that matters. In order to make your own life better, you have to vote for the average person; because that's what you are. There is not a single person you've met in your entire life who is not an average human. As such, you decide to vote for whatever will benefit the average.

And thus, you vote liberal. You vote to eliminate the class system, and the wealth system, and whatever other system; and you try to distribute everything equally.

It might not be fair. Hell, it's definitely not fair. But it benefits you, personally, so you do it. And in a perfect world, it would be the perfect system.
The world isn't perfect, of course, and obviously it won't work as a long-term plan; but that doesn't matter. It benefits you today and tomorrow, so it's good enough.
I know this probably sounded smart in your head but no, we are not "all average". Elon Musk is not average. Bill Gates is not average. Warren Buffett is not average. We do not all cluster around the mean, and as usual you've said a lot of bluster without any substance. This kind of idealistic morphing of people into a grey, amorphous blob is at the root of the cultural problems we face in current_year. Understanding that some people are better than others at particular things is a better mindset to encounter life with because it allows you to understand why and how others are able to get ahead. Assuming that every person on the planet is "average" (and therefore unable to get ahead without cheating the system) is precisely how you get the redistributive, equalising leftist strongholds described in the OP.
 

rykomatsu

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Is it really that complicated? It seems pretty straight-forward to me.


Living in a a dense (city) environment gives you access to more people than your average person has access to.
You get to see the rich, the poor, the middle-class, and anybody in between.

It opens you up to cultures you've never considered. It opens you up to classes you've never considered. It opens you up to people, in general, you've never considered.
It allows you to witness every single aspect of people: From the craziest thing you could ever dream of, to the most mundane of mundane.

After you've experienced it for a while, you realize that all people are just out there, living their lives, trying to get by. None of the nonsense matters. Anything you've ever stressed about, fretted about, worried about, etc. is all just white noise to the people around you. The only way to improve life is to improve it for the average person. Focusing on one specific group or another doesn't matter, because nobody gives a shit about specific groups, because they're a niche; that's what makes them specific. Around that many people, you get to the core of humanity, to the core of what makes a person a person: All people care about is themselves (and their very-close relatives). And that's a good thing. because you are a member of that group.

We are all average. We're as average as average gets. And no matter which party you like or vote for, nothing will change that. Sure, you can have ideals and morals and creeds, and whatever else matters inside of your mentality. But when you witness thousands of human beings every day, going about their lives, and not giving even the slightest of fucks about you, it starts to change your mentality. You start to realize that anything you think, or say, or do, or whatever else, doesn't matter. And you're just an average person.

No matter how much you want to vote conservative, or republican, or liberal, or democratic [And those are definitely NOT redundant; and shame on you if you disagree], or anywhere in the middle; none of that matters. In order to make your own life better, you have to vote for the average person; because that's what you are. There is not a single person you've met in your entire life who is not an average human. As such, you decide to vote for whatever will benefit the average.

And thus, you vote liberal. You vote to eliminate the class system, and the wealth system, and whatever other system; and you try to distribute everything equally.

It might not be fair. Hell, it's definitely not fair. But it benefits you, personally, so you do it. And in a perfect world, it would be the perfect system.
The world isn't perfect, of course, and obviously it won't work as a long-term plan; but that doesn't matter. It benefits you today and tomorrow, so it's good enough.
Equality of outcome will never work, as this will always result in resentment from those that are being taken from, which is essentially what is being proposed.

You don't have any right to the spoils of my labor that you didn't contribute to. Likewise, I have no right to any of yours. It just so happens that the value our labor produces is different such that our spoils are different. Equalizing this disincentivizes people from pursuing and aspiring to be better. The reason there is a range of incomes is because various roles requires specialized knowledge that not everyone has or is capable of executing on. Working fast food has been reduced to learning a basic manual and instructions and as such, anyone can do this. A petrochemical engineer requires years of specialized education and training that not everyone will be able to get through. So no, I don't vote to eliminate any kind of non-existent system you talk about. I vote to enable individual liberties and freedoms so that everyone can attempt to pursue prosperity (ie. equality of opportunity).
 
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Equality of outcome will never work, as this will always result in resentment from those that are being taken from, which is essentially what is being proposed.

You don't have any right to the spoils of my labor that you didn't contribute to. Likewise, I have no right to any of yours. It just so happens that the value our labor produces is different such that our spoils are different. Equalizing this disincentivizes people from pursuing and aspiring to be better. The reason there is a range of incomes is because various roles requires specialized knowledge that not everyone has or is capable of executing on. Working fast food has been reduced to learning a basic manual and instructions and as such, anyone can do this. A petrochemical engineer requires years of specialized education and training that not everyone will be able to get through. So no, I don't vote to eliminate any kind of non-existent system you talk about. I vote to enable individual liberties and freedoms so that everyone can attempt to pursue prosperity (ie. equality of opportunity).
Yup.

The problem often comes down to envy, jealousy, and lazy fucks trying to get by on other people's dime. Considering western countries have sliding scale tax rates and already give handouts to poor people, while higher earners get pinched, the bottom feeders should already know and respect they are getting some freebies off other people's backs.

Instead of living life with what you got, what you get from the government and be happy where you are, it comes down to a bitchfest of Bob down the street having a better car and a swimming pool, since he makes good coin. Bitchfest Barry wants that shit too, even though he makes sandwiches at Subway. Nothing would make him happier if he got double the wage, and Bob got fired from his job to even out things.

That's a key reason why the world has theft.

There's only so many people out there stealing for survival, food and money to keep the water bills going. The majority of theft seems to be assholes trying to score free shit from other people or stealing from companies. Not because it's life or death. Just because they want cash, a stolen tv, or a highjacked car to have more shit.
 

brap’s dad

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Yup.

The problem often comes down to envy, jealousy, and lazy fucks trying to get by on other people's dime. Considering western countries have sliding scale tax rates and already give handouts to poor people, while higher earners get pinched, the bottom feeders should already know and respect they are getting some freebies off other people's backs.

Instead of living life with what you got, what you get from the government and be happy where you are, it comes down to a bitchfest of Bob down the street having a better car and a swimming pool, since he makes good coin. Bitchfest Barry wants that shit too, even though he makes sandwiches at Subway. Nothing would make him happier if he got double the wage, and Bob got fired from his job to even out things.

That's a key reason why the world has theft.

There's only so many people out there stealing for survival, food and money to keep the water bills going. The majority of theft seems to be assholes trying to score free shit from other people or stealing from companies. Not because it's life or death. Just because they want cash, a stolen tv, or a highjacked car to have more shit.
What you got against sandwich artists?
 
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Marlenus

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I’m stuck in one myself. I’ve been considering moving 20ish miles away to live in a more rural, less crowded area, but the commute would be a nightmare. I don’t see myself being able to leave any time soon.

the pros are that it’s easier to make money in them. I know an older couple who I consider very admirable who ground it out in liberal cities for a couple decades then moved far away when they got near retirement.
That is called making bank in a high cost of living area and then moving to a low cost of living area so they get more for their money. Pretty common tactic regardless of politics view.
 

Mihos

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That is called making bank in a high cost of living area and then moving to a low cost of living area so they get more for their money. Pretty common tactic regardless of politics view.
We moved literally 5 miles from our old house a few years back to just outside the county/city line and doubled the square footage of our house and halved our tax bill.
 
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Super Mario

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The big cities are really complex. They aren't complete products of Liberalism, as many of them used to be conservative. However, the left was smart and really targeted them. Because if you own those, you own power.

I can understand why people would want to live in areas like SF or NYC. They are lively, there is tons to do, they hold prestigious jobs, they can be great experiences.

With that said, they have become a mess, and probably won't improve anytime soon. When you have so much demand, prices skyrocket. You have to sacrifice things. You have people become disenfranchised. The disenfranchised get to pick a lot of the rules of law because they vote in numbers. "Price of living is too high because I deserve to live in NYC with no skill". Then you tax all of that wealth to pay for stuff for all of the victims.

The end result of all of the victim pandering for votes becomes a disgusting mess. Then your city is filled with junkies, needles, homeless, free AIDs testing centers, homeless shelters, etc etc.
 

zeorhymer

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When you're living in it, it's great! Then you step back a little and realize, that was just new paint on a dilapidated house.
 
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Vicetrailia

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Ease up, stalker.

My state is equivalent to Alberta in Canada in that we do most of the economic heavy lifting of natural resources while getting sneered at and called names by all the privileged elitist lefties that we are propping up in the more populous cities like Sydney and Melbourne which are, respectively, Australia's financial hub and... actually, I don't really know what Melbourne provides besides hipsters, coffee, and male feminist state premiers with giant earlobes. At least Scopa Scopa 's state provides something useful like a booming food and wine industry.

Oh so Queensland leans conservative. In the US you won't find a city that massive that leans conservative.

So my other question is how conservative are conservatives there, compared to ones in the US?
 
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Horns

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For me personally it has to do with the quality of life. I live in a "liberal stronghold." My county is top 10 in educational systems. Our current school ranks 97th percentile in the state. It's a highly educated area overall-three Master's degrees in my house alone and most of the people we know have at least a 4 year degree. Sure it is a little more expensive here, but you obviously make more money. The reason why housing is so expensive is capitalism. Many many many people want to live here...you know supply and demand. That's why you can live large if you move to podunk. Speaking of there is never a dull moment here, Sports, food, cool hangouts, interesting people, etc. there is so much to do (if you want to). My community is well planned so lots of bike paths, trails, and ways to get around in a safe way. Ran 10 miles on Sunday with my oldest following me on her bike. Household median income is very high here. Fun fact: 2/3rds of the GDP comes "liberal stronghold." Believe it or not you can own guns here too. They just don't let you play toy solider or overcompensate in public.

Edit: One measure of the happiest states will paint a clear picture. Can't find anything going down any further.
 
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Gashtronomy

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Is there a difference between liberal and conservative areas or is the difference City vs Rural life?

I've lived in a city for most of my life, it used to be Labour dominated, recently it has swung to Conservative dominated. It's early days but i don't see/feel any difference, it's still a city. Yet, when I go to the countryside or when I used to live in the country, the attitude is totally different.

Thinking about it while I type this, I don't ever remember talking politics in the countryside, whereas it comes up all the time in the City. Countryside talks seem to be more about the immediate community, health and wellbeing and friendliness.

Hmm.
 

brap’s dad

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For me personally it has to do with the quality of life. I live in a "liberal stronghold." My county is top 10 in educational systems. Our current school ranks 97th percentile in the state. It's a highly educated area overall-three Master's degrees in my house alone and most of the people we know have at least a 4 year degree. Sure it is a little more expensive here, but you obviously make more money. The reason why housing is so expensive is capitalism. Many many many people want to live here...you know supply and demand. That's why you can live large if you move to podunk. Speaking of there is never a dull moment here, Sports, food, cool hangouts, interesting people, etc. there is so much to do (if you want to). My community is well planned so lots of bike paths, trails, and ways to get around in a safe way. Ran 10 miles on Sunday with my oldest following me on her bike. Household median income is very high here. Fun fact: 2/3rds of the GDP comes "liberal stronghold." Believe it or not you can own guns here too. They just don't let you play toy solider or overcompensate in public.

Edit: One measure of the happiest states will paint a clear picture. Can't find anything going down any further.
What are those masters degrees in?
 

JordanN

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Is there a difference between liberal and conservative areas or is the difference City vs Rural life?
I sadly grew up in a time where most cities in my country strictly voted liberal, so the two are highly synonymous with each other.

That said, I would be interested in seeing what life was like back when it was the other way around.

Take Detroit for example. Last Republican mayor was in 1962, it's been run by Democrats ever since and the change is obvious.

Before,



After

 

Zangiefy360

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Cities are great in your 20s if you can afford to live in them and have the time to enjoy the fun aspects.

As I've gotten older, I can't imagine living a large major city again. People tend to be more aggressive, traffic is insane, public transport is disgusting, restaurants and activites are overpriced, doing the little things like grocery shopping tend to be a pain in the ass, increasing homeless populations that make it unsafe and unsanitary, and of course the inflated cost of living whether you rent or buy.

It suites me better to live in a developed suburb that's within an hour drive of a major city. I get safety, better schools, less crowds, and if there's anything I need the city for it's a short drive away.
 

JordanN

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Cities are great in your 20s if you can afford to live in them and have the time to enjoy the fun aspects.

As I've gotten older, I can't imagine living a large major city again. People tend to be more aggressive, traffic is insane, public transport is disgusting, restaurants and activites are overpriced, doing the little things like grocery shopping tend to be a pain in the ass, increasing homeless populations that make it unsafe and unsanitary, and of course the inflated cost of living whether you rent or buy.

It suites me better to live in a developed suburb that's within an hour drive of a major city. I get safety, better schools, less crowds, and if there's anything I need the city for it's a short drive away.
The traffic and public transportation are my biggest pet peeves.

You'd think that after living with millions of people and voting for more government control, these cities should have some kind of futuristic transit system. But oh god, try and ride any bus in these places and they are packed to the brim, while also being stuck behind several more cars in traffic. It's unbearable to me.
 
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